If Netanyahu becomes Israel’s next PM, the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict could be realized via peace with the Saudis..Op-ed.
Dry Bones – Bibi considers the new Saudi PlanY. Kirschen
Israel’s Leader of the Opposition Benjamin Netanyahu has broken his silence – giving his nod of approval to examining the Saudi-proposed Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution (Saudi Solution) :
“I think the big prize is peace with Saudi Arabia, which I intend to achieve if I go back into office… The rise of Israeli power facilitated the Abraham Accords, and the continual nurturing of Israeli power will also nurture a broader peace with Saudi Arabia and nearly all of the rest of the Arab world. I intend to bring the Arab-Israeli conflict to a close.”
Peace with Saudi Arabia and ending the Arab-Israeli conflict will require Netanyahu to successfully negotiate to make the Saudi Solution – published in June – acceptable. That would see:
· Jordan, Gaza and part of Judea and Samaria (‘West Bank’) being merged into one territorial entity to be called The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine – with its capital in Amman – not Jerusalem
· Abandonment of the 74 years-old Palestinian Arab demand to return and live in Israel
· Recognition of Jewish sovereignty in part of Judea and Samaria (‘West Bank’) for the first time in 3000 years
· No new Palestinian Arab state between Israel and Jordan
Yesh Atid Party Leader – Yair Lapid, Blue and White Party Leader – Benny Gantz – and Labor Party Leader – Merav Michaeli – have all rejected the Saudi Solution outright – aligning their respective parties policies with President Biden’s to continue pursuing the failed unachievable two-state solution first dreamt up by the European Union in 1980 and endorsed by the United Nations in 2003.
The leaders of all other Israeli political parties have yet to comment on the Saudi Solution.
Netanyahu, however, indicated his thinking was clearly in sync with the game-changing proposals.
On the touchy question of Israeli sovereignty in part only of Judea and Samaria (‘West Bank’) – Netanyahu said:
“The reality is that a third, which includes biblical sites, strategic sites, and Jewish suburbs of our major cities, they’re going to stay in Israel no matter what. We’d like more—possibly everything—but that’s not the point. The point is everybody recognized this part will stay, so why not recognize it the way Trump recognized Jerusalem as our capital? And it’s been that way for 3,000 years since King David; so why not recognize this reality too?”
On the sensitive issue of Jerusalem remaining solely the capital of Israel – Netanyahu declared:
“As long as [the Palestinian Arabs] cling to the unrealistic assumption that we’re going to dismantle half of Jerusalem and dismantle these suburbs, you ain’t gonna get peace. You’re going to get nothing. You cannot build peace in the Middle East on fantasy. Any peace built on lies and fantasy will founder on the rocks of Middle Eastern realities.
It’s about time to recognize what is going to be. What is [currently] there, and what is going to be.”
The new Saudi Solution maintains the current reality of Jerusalem remaining the capital of Israel only. Possibly Hamas and the PLO realize that – as their four-months self-imposed silence in failing to oppose or reject the new Saudi Solution may restify.
The main remaining issue to be negotiated is security control over the newly merged entity – where Netanyahu told Ben Shapiro in an earlier interview:
“…West of the Jordan River … Israel and Israel alone controls security. We control the airspace, we control the ground security, underground security in case they want to do tunnels… We’re not going to commit suicide for a favourable op-ed in theNew York Times”
If Netanyahu becomes Israel’s next Prime Minister – the end of the 100 years old Arab-Israeli conflict and peace with Saudi Arabia could well be realised.
Author’s note: The cartoon — commissioned exclusively for this article — is by Yaakov Kirschen aka “Dry Bones”- one of Israel’s foremost political and social commentators — whose cartoons have graced the columns of Israeli and international media publications for decades.
@David Singer
I think I did answer your question. I think what you have suggested in your question is a non-sequitur.. The Jordan R is and will be the border. The fact that 3.5 million Pales live out side it is irrelevant.
You want to move the border to include the 3.5 million. I want to move the 3.5 million to east of the border.
That’s it in a nutshell.
How about your answer to my question. If Mudar becomes the leader of Jordan will you support the Jordan Option.
#Sebastian and #Edgar
I think Ted is able to answer my questions without your attempted intervention to preempt Ted’s responses.
Your answers please Ted.
Then presumably even the Fakestinian Arabs should get it. Weren’t their putative namesakes, the actual Philistines, most famously Goliath,* from Crete or thereabouts?
“Everybody must get stoned*.” – Bob Dylan. 😀
Is Singer being deliberately DENSE?? Having Jordanian citizens in YESHA has no effect on the validity of the BORDER. The border is the official demarcation boundary between Israel and Jordan, which, very neatly is the actual River Jordan, officially, since 1994.
This is a very simple fact, easily understood by one who does not want to be contentious, and niggle at “pinkes”. (not to be confused with “Pinchas”)
Doubling down ,as I previously posted. Ted explains it so clearly that a cretin would understand it. Singer asks for future guarantees..an impossibility anyway.
@David Singer cc Ted, It seems to me, correct me if I am wrong, Ted, that Ted is saying he will unify them in Jordan as the Palestinian state, that he will invite the Palestinians living west of the river to go east. “Go east young man.”
😀 Talk about Freudian typos; I had inadvertently written, “incite” instead of “invite.” 😀
#Ted
Stop trying to avoid answering my following questions:
Your answers would be appreciated.
@David Singer
As you know, all Palestinians are already Jordanian citizens as a result of Jordan trying to annex the West Bank. Later the king tried to take away the citizenship or reduce its effectiveness. Amnesty International prevented him from doing this. And so things remained.Like I said, Mudar’s first order of business is to reaffirm their citizenship.
I may interest you to know that should Israel extend Israeli law to Judea some say that Israel will have to give Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians living there and to do otherwise would make it an apartheid state. This is erroneous. The is no obligation to give citizenship to citizens of another country.. They would just be foreign residents.
So even if none of them emigrated, we would not have to give them citizenship. If they emigrate, all the better.
When Jordan declares itself as the Palestinian state, it would pull the rug from under the Westbank Palestinians “right” to have a state.
How the Jordan Option will Impact Israel
None of this is new. I have written about it many times.
#Ted
You are ducking my query:
How is Mudar going to unify the Palestinians on both sides of the river into one nation, Jordan – as you claim he plans to do?
Won’t that entail the border between Israel and Jordan being redrawn and sovereignty in Judea and Samaria being divided between these two States?
@David Singer
One of the first things he will do is reaffirm the citizenship of all Palestinians and invite those living outside Jordan to emigrate there.
Ted
How does this square with your following earlier comment?
HONEYBEE_
Why so enigmatic and opaque?? Am I to assume that “so true” is for ME and “so mistaken” for READER……!!
EDGARG READER So true and yet, so mistaken
@David
We understand all these issues. As you know the Palestinian claims including their alleged rights are based on a false narrative.. Essentially Israel will disenfranchise UNRWA and the PA. Trump started the process. Jordan will replace both the PA and UNRWA…Oslo will be terminated .Exactly how this will come about, we don’t know. But the goal is clear.
I can not talk about how or when this will happen.. We do not need the permission of the PA or Hamas.. Jordan will replace the PA as the administrator or will take over the leadership of the PA and Abbas will retire or die.. Under Mudar, Jordan will be come the Palestinian state.. Mudar will represent a large majority of Palestinians. He will speak for them, not Hamas nor Abbas.
I expect Israel will eventually have to invade Gaza and destroy Hamas. The PA ruled by Jordan will administer and police all Areas A , B and Gaza. Mudar will be in charge of the Palestinian security forces.
Till now, Abdullah has wanted nothing to do with the Palestians west of the river.. He is supporting the two state solution plus Jordan. He fears that if he has to take over the Palestinians west of the river, the Palestinians will overthrow his kingdom. That why he hasn’t supported the Saudi Plan or the idea of confederation.
Netanyahu thinks that the Palestinian issue shouldn’t determine Arab/ Israeli affairs.. He wants to make peace with the Arab countries first as in the Abraham Accords and then the Palestinian conflict will be easier to solve.. You assume too much to assume he endorses the Saudi Plan. Smotrich and Ben Gvir certainly don’t.
When Jordan is lead by Mudar, he will thus be the leader of at least 6 million Palestinians who live in Jordan.. There is only about 3.5 million Palestinians living in the territories.. Mudar wants to unify the Palestinians on both sides of the river into one nation, Jordan. That’s where he is going with this. I am planning on producing a documentary on the “birth of a Nation” which will begin with the birth of Transjordan under the Hashemites and culminate in Mudar’s rise to be the leader of all Palestinians and with Jordan being their country.
@HONEYBEE-
I wouldn’t worry about any “painful concessions”. It’s only a worn-out term for any little scrap that Israel may put on the table. At one time it meant something because the Arab murderers were always making outrageous demands in the true manner of Shuk wheelers and dealers, demanding 10 times as much as they “hoped” to get. And backed by the Anti-Semitic West. Jews were always expected to “give” and be thankful that only a finger was taken instead of the whole hand.
Something like the “Two State Solution”….referred to as TSS, not to be confused (although it can be when uttered phonetically and quickly) with PSS I recall how obscene it sounded from the flabby, slavering loose lips of Arafat….a revolting sight at any time
But from Menachem Begin’s ingress, this all began to fade away, only re-emerging with such as the traitorous “Disengagement”., and the outrageous Shalit “deal”…….
@PELONI-
Not so many years ago I always looked forward to David Singer’s articles. They were less political and more practical in their outlook; a pleasure to read. But in the past few years it seems to me that he has veered off the “straight and narrow’ and dived into the cesspit of politics. He matches his skils with experts, to no good results, doubling down when opposed..
And from then on, makes very little sense to me .
He has often contradicted himself in the same article, as you have just now pointed out.
As for his cartoon… if he pays for it, he’s wasting his money for this affectation, innocuous in it’s present usage.
@David Singer
You stated
and then immediately add that
This seems to be a clear contradiction. This king-thief is responsible for maintaining and stoking the violence against Israel while also wielding a terrorist organization towards the same effect, and yet you seem reluctant to identify him as an enemy, if I am reading your comments correctly. Feel free to correct me here, but that doesn’t make any sense at all.
A great article:
@TED-
Thank you for the information. I would assume therefore that Mudar knows more about it than any living person in this subject. I have not seen or heard of anyone else who made a special study of the whole progress, and I doubt that there is one.
Singer’s position , as I see his responses are specious in many parts. Asserting HIS statements to be facts with no qualifying data..
He decides that the midget kinglet is a super Fu Manchu fully in control of the Muslim Brotherhood who will jump at his bidding as high as he wants them to go. he seems not to recognise that the Hashemites exist precariously only by the good graces of Israel and the US, along with support from the UK.
His applause of the “peace” between Jordan and Israel for so long, ignores the fact that they were heavily defeated in War, more than once, and are mortally afraid of Israeli Power. And…….that the king has openly encouraged Jew-Hate in the population, until polls show virtually a 90% + Anti-Semitic result.
Netanyahu accepted the 30% knowing that Israel would always have complete control of the Jordan Valley and much more.. AND that it was a virtual certainty that the terrorists would not comply with the Plan- which gave Israel full freedom to expand sovereignty after 4 years.
I’m encapsulating the conditions of which there were many more. But Singer reminds me of the man who “played the ukulele as the ship went down”, in other words he’s on a foundering horse, but has nothing else to offer.
For such a known devout Zionist to even consider granting Israel’s heartland in perpetuity to our most bitter enemy, is really puzzling to me.
# Ted
Your comment in bold. My response in italics
Not only a huge advance on the 2002 API but the total shredding of the 2002 API – offering Israel sole sovereignty in Jerusalem and abandoning the right of return and the two-state solution – three conditions your Plan could not possibly make – let alone ever hope to achieve.
Strange claim for you to make considering Abdullah heads a country whose Hashemite regime has maintained and honoured a signed Peace Agreement with Israel since 1994
I don’t want him in control of A, B and the Jordan Valley.
The Muslim Brotherhood’s world headquarters are in Jordan. So the King controls the MB who control Hamas. The King can and does order violence when it suits his purpose.
Really? Your plan does not offer an end to the Arab-Jewish conflict, the dispute over sovereignty in Jerusalem, the abandonment of claims by the PLO and Hamas to a separate state between Israel and Jordan, the abandonment of the right of return
Mudar does not support the plan which leaves the Hashemites in power.
When Mudar comes to power he will accept the Jordan R as the border as it is now, join the Abraham Accords, ban the MB, accept all Palestinian emigration, take over from the PA and cheer on the destruction of Hamas and the PLO.
“Those who accept the notion of a Palestinian people must therefore wonder: how many Palestinian Arab peoples are there? Is there a western Palestinian Arab people and, just across that narrow stream known as the Jordan River an eastern Palestinian Arab people? How many Arab States in Palestine does Palestinian self-determination require? Clearly, in eastern and western Palestine there are only two peoples, the Arabs and the Jews; and, just as clearly, there are only two States in that area, Jordan and Israel.
The Arab State of Jordan, containing some 3 million Arabs, does not allow a single Jew to live there. It contains four fifths of the territory originally allocated by the predecessor of the United Nations. the League of Nations, for the Jewish national home. The other State, Israel, has a population of a little over 4 million, of which one sixth IS Arab. It contains less than one fifth of the territory originally allocated to the Jews under the Mandate.
The claim of self-determination, then, is misleading, for the inhabitants of Jordan which, incidentally,Hussein’s grandfather, King Abdullah, wanted originally to call the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine – are largely Palestinian Arabs, and within that population, western Palestinian Arabs are the majority. It cannot be said, therefore, that the Arabs of Palestine are lacking a State or their own, the ultimate expression of self-determination. The demand for a second Palestinian Arab State in western Palestine, and the twenty-second Arab State in the world, is merely the latest attempt to push Israel back into the hopelessly vulnerable armistice lines of 1949.”
@QUIGLEY
Thanks for your support.
@EDGAR
It may interest you to know that Mudar’s thesis for his PhD in the UK was all about the establishment of the Hashemite kingdom in Transjordan. He told me that he read the entire archives of letters and memos dealing with its creation.
@DAVID SINGER-
Your comment verges on being extraneous. “hovering” suited my phrasing in this particular passage. I know that TED and MUDAR are “calling for” a removal of the Hashemites, and, considering how they were slipped into their “kingdom”, they can only save face by a hurried retreat, as happened to the other Hashemite “kingdoms”. Syria is a good case in point.
I am thoroughly conversant with the “history” as to how Churchill did th dirty on the Jews.
“Crossroads to Israel by Christopher Sykes” gives a succinct account of the REAL way that this happened. Being the son of Sir Mark Sykes, possessing all his papers and records, he knew whereof he spoke.
My comment, The Spanish flu should have arrived 3 years earlier and we would have had NO Sykes-Picot underground deal.
The summary:
A poisoned bait (the TSS) is a poisoned bait regardless of the title it is given – The Deal of the Century, The Saudi Plan, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, ABCDEFG, or whatever.
Israel and the Jews don’t have friends or allies except for God Almighty – the old slogan Ein Breira must be revived.
Israel must start advocating for aliyah instead of playing games with “establishing relationships with the Jewish communities of the Diaspora” in vain hopes that the Diaspora will support Israel – in fact, the history of 90 years ago seems to be repeating itself, and the Diaspora is in danger.
The only cure for terrorism is for Israel to stop caving in to the demands of the “world community” because every time Israel gives way, it encourages our enemies to just keep at it in order to finally put an end to the Jewish state.
Israel must stand up in the UN and announce that it will not agree to anything less than Israel in its largest Biblical borders with the completion of the population exchange between Israel and the Arabs.
I am not really able to speak on this with confidence. But just this. The idea of the state of Israel to the west of the river was already a concession. The idea of Jordan had earlier been a concession too. I would not now though interfere in Jordan. But at the same time hold firm to one Jewish state west of the river. The very minimum for the Jews. That’s my principle. I would also hold this principle in front of the Americans and British and never relinquish it. This is also the grounds (firm ground) to stand and fight Antisemitism in the west. I would tend to seek friends in the Arabs but never deviate from this principle. I think I’m an historian really and these thoughts are rooted in history.
@David Singer
Herein lies the greatest misconception of this plan to give to the Arabs an even greater percentage of the lands formerly contained in the British Palestinian Mandate territory. Reliable record? Really? The reliable record of Abdullah is that of a false friend, just as that of his father and his grandfather, as he continues to foment violence against the Jews and undermine Israel before the International community. Have we all become so amnesiac that we have forgotten the constant assaults from the Israeli territory already controlled by Jordan around Al Aqsa? Was this Jordanian controlled area not the source of the faux outrage and real violence from which the War of Riots and Rockets was initiated, in what did appear to be a well coordinated plan with both the rioters and the rocketeers? That was but 18months ago, and this same false ally continues his reliable record of abusing Israel to this day with the false allegations he recently made before the UNGA asserting that it is Israel who undermines the safety and security in Jerusalem. So, as you suggest that we should be motivated to accept this king as a peace partner to stem the Arab violence against the Jews, you ignore the fact that your proposed peace partner is in part responsible for the very atmosphere and exercise of violence which you believe ingratiating him with further Jewish lands will resolve. And you would grant this man a contiguous territorial control thru the Jordan Valley as well as in Gaza? If this is to be Jordanian territory, changing the long border of Israel to be that on the other side of the Jordanian heights, it is no wonder that Abdullah is sitting silent, awaiting this prize to be granted to him, greater than anything his father or grandfather would have ever believe possible.
@ DAvid Singer
Do I support the Saudi Plan?
It is a huge advance over the API of 2002 but:
The King is our enemy. I don’t want him in control of A, B and the Jordan Valley.
The Muslim Brotherhood’s world headquarters are in Jordan. So the King controls the MB who control Hamas. The King can and does order violence when it suits his purpose.
So what’s to like?
It pales in comparison to my Jordan Option.
It doesn’t provide for Arab emigration.
Mudar does not support the plan which leaves the Hashemites in power.
When Mudar comes to power he will accept the Jordan R as the border as it is now, join the Abraham Accords, ban the MB, accept all Palestinian emigration, take over from the PA and cheer on the destruction of Hamas and the PLO.
#Edgar G: – “Hovering” is not the same as “calling for”.
2022-2017 = 5 years
#Ted:
Does Mudar support the Saudi Plan?
Do you?
#Ted
You state:
@Edgar
Area C is only the beginning..
SINGER_
That’s a pretty rotten thing to say. Apart from having forgotten that you asserted that the Zahran “myth” has been hovering for TEN years, you now reduce it to 5.
But to imply that those 5 years, and the numbers of terrorist inflicted deaths, plus many thousand of wounded are to be blamed on those 5 years, is hitting very low.
You may not have meant it this way, in which case it’s poorly phrased.
Also I think you’re dreaming if you believe that an implemented Saudi Plan would halt terrorism. The YESHA Arabs, are the same rade, yes, but have far more bloodthirsty goals, There are 3 generations of that kind aready on the ground right there, with increasing support and participation of Israel Arab citizens.
TED-
“The Right wants Sovereignty over Area C”…. This is only a beginning; the Right wants Sovereignty over all of YESHA., Always has, always will.
Jabotinsky thinking is still strong in Right Wing Israel.
“No person can remove our Rights to this Land”…
@David
The Genesis of the Jordan Option and “Confederation with Jordan”
@DAVID
It all boils down to this.. Bibi will form his government in a few weeks. It will either be a rightwing government or a Unity Government. In either case he can pursue the Saudi Plan as you suggest. If Smotrich and Ben Gvir are in the government, they may or may not support the Saudi Plan.
So Mudar has to come to power before the Saudi Plan is seriously advanced in which case he will be a major voice weighing in on the Plan.
I believe he will succeed and be a major factor is determining what will happen.
In the meantime, Bibi can work to establish a peace agreement with Saudi Arabia which may or may not include the Saudi Plan.
I will look for my critique of the Saudi Plan…
#Ted
.
You have been making the Zahran call to happen for at least five years. How many Jews and Arabs have died or been maimed or been undergoing trauma counselling in that time?
How many more will suffer similar fates if no steps are taken to try and implement the 2022 Saudi plan which has the potential to end 100 years of conflict after no more than six months negotiations designed to:
1. delineate the new international border between Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine
2. determine security control of the new entity’s territory west of the Jordan River.
Your attitude indicates you are prepared to see the conflict indefinitely perpetuated until Zahran assumes power in Jordan in the hope that your plan will then become a reality – which is definitely not guaranteed anyway.
I am prepared to try and end the conflict now by calling for negotiations to immediately begin to try and implement the 2022 Saudi Solution.
Have you published your analysis of the Saudi Solution? If so – please refer me to your article.
@Honeybee
“Because betrayal, too, is ok, because it is a part of life, part of what you are, what we all are,”
satire
https://youtu.be/7kCrrjp2epY
That’s what I was afraid of – that Netanyahu will come back and do the TSS.
His father is spinning in his grave.
@Honeybee
Because it is assumed that they are weak and have to live in fear and, therefore, have to want peace more than the Arabs do, and to pay a higher price for it.
Plus, they are regarded as inferior, evil, cowardly, illegitimate, greedy, etc., and it is dishonorable for the “Aryans” to even appear to give in to them.
Israel has become the WORLD’S JEW.
Why do you think the so-called Arab-Israeli conflict is considered the most important problem by the “world community”, as though there are no other or no worse problems in the world?
DAVID SINGER-
Ted is clearly correct here. His plan depends on Mudar gaining control of Jordan as amply explained. It is the perfect Plan, -as envisaged.
YOUR plan “donates” an integral part of our Homeland to the enemy Arabs, however “sincere” their present stance may appear to be. Can you guarantee a change in their government, or the attitude of the next Arab generation….?????
The Israel public , both religious, secular and atheistic would NEVER accept this surrendering the centre of our ancient Land to Arabs, with a legal foothold in a contiguous “independent” country.
The term you neglect to recall (or mention) is “taqiyya”….also Oslo, Oslo 2 Taba, the Disengagement, and….persistent terrorism…plus Uncle Tom Cobbley and ALL the carious Arab-Jew “peace” treaties.
You’re old enough to know better, any Arab proposed plan by it’s very source is heavily weighed in favour of ISLAM ….which, by the way, is immutable…….
After all that has gone before, how can any Jew ever trust any Arab, who isn’t shackled head and foot. Yes, there are a few exceptions like Mudar, but hens’ teeth are more plentiful.
@David Singer
Its not necessary to convince you.
Time will tell.
#Ted
Dream on Ted – as you have been doing for 10 years since Zahran burst on the scene and so impressed you with his wildly-extravagant claim. You have backed the wrong horse. You should have stuck with Jordan is Palestine International – which has now been resurrected and its limited objective of dividing Judea and Samaria between Israel and Jordan – significantly expanded by the 2022 Saudi solution – making concessions I could never have dared to promise back in 1979 when JIP was officially founded by me.
The Saudi solution can be activated immediately by Netanyahu agreeing to negotiate to implement its provisions. No regime change needed like your plan.
Concessions in the Saudi Plan – already made – include:
1. Jerusalem being sole capital of Israel
2. Abandonment of right of return
3. Israeli sovereignty in part of Judea and Samaria
4. Abandonment of Arab Peace Initiative.
5. Citizenship of the new entity for all residents and returning refugees
6. No Arab resident required or pressured to move from his current West Bank or Gaza home.
Zahran riding into Amman to take over the reins of power following Hashemite regime change – voluntary or otherwise – would be an unmitigated disaster. The PLO and Hamas would eat him for breakfast and seize control. Is that what you want to really see happen?
Abdullah, Abbas and Haniyeh silence on Saudi solution for last five months offers some hope of a peace treaty being negotiated with the entity remaining under Hashemite control as already stipulated and apparently agreed to by all three in the Saudi plan.
Your plan is a recipe for chaos and the perpetuation of conflict.
Implementation of the Saudi plan offers the hope of an agreement to end the 100 years-old Arab-Jewish conflict.
Time for Netanyahu to see if this dream can be actually converted into reality.
@David Singer
My Jordan Option depends on Mudar coming into power. If he does then the Jordan Option will be the only game in town and Israelis will have to decide how to incentivize Arab emigration.
If that happens, will we have your support or resistance?.
If it doesn’t happen, we have to wait to see how Abdullah weighs in.
#Ted
My response in italics to your comment in bold:
Welcome to the debate. Allow me to say that Mudar will soon be running Jordan.
You have been saying that for 10 years and it hasn’t happened
He has already agreed to everything I say the JO is about.. As I recall, what separated us over the years is that you wanted Israel to debate with the present Jordan and I wanted to replace the King with the New Jordan headed by Mudar.. It has been my belief that negotiations with the old Jordan would be fruitless…I preferred to advocate for the New Jordan.
I also saw the current Jordan as our enemy. I don’t recall you every saying the same.
A fair summation of our differences. Promoting regime change in Jordan has always been anathema to me. Interfering in the internal affairs of Jordan should not be the province of Israelis or anyone else.
Has Jordan ever indicated a willingness to accept the new Saudi Plan? As I recall, the last thing the King wanted was to include the Palestinians in the territories in an expanded Jordan He feared that they would oust him as monarch. Do you recall differently.
Abdullah has not said one word to reject the Saudi Plan since its publication in June this year. Had he done so the Saudi Plan would be dead in the water. Same if Abbas or Haniyeh had done likewise. All have been silent. To me this is highly significant
The 2022 Saudi solution runs rings around your failed 10 years Jordan Option and the 20 years failed UN two-state solution. It offers far more before negotiations are even begun than your solution could ever hope to offer. I can understand your frustration at the continuing failure to see your proposal implemented. Regrettably in my opinion it was never a starter as I repeatedly pointed out to you.
The Saudi plan is a real game-changer in my opinion. Negotiations to implement it need to be started. Netanyahu needs to rise to the occasion and I believe he will after his Government is formed.
@ David Singer
Welcome to the debate. Allow me to say that Mudar will soon be running Jordan. He has already agreed to everything I say the JO is about.. As I recall, what separated us over the years is that you wanted Israel to debate with the present Jordan and I wanted to replace the King with the New Jordan headed by Mudar.. It has been my belief that negotiations with the old J0ordan would be fruitless…I preferred to advocate for the New Jordan.
I also saw the current Jordan as our enemy. I don’t recall you every saying the same.
Has Jordan ever indicated a willingness to accept the new Saudi Plan? As I recall, the last thing the King wanted was to include the Palestinians in the territories in an expanded Jordan He feared that they would oust him as monarch. Do you recall differently.
Reader, you said,
David, you said,
I don’t trust any Muslim hudna.
I agree.
#Ted Belman
“Moot” has many meanings one of which is: “ subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.” Negotiations will determine the fate of the Jordan Valley.
Pushing the failed Jordan Option pursued unsuccessfully for the last 10 years needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history – like the equally failed two-state solution.
The Saudi solution is the new plan on the diplomatic and political agenda. Have you done an analysis of it yet?
#Reader
The Saudi Plan will not proceed if Israel does not agree to its implementation in negotiations. Israel would certainly not agree to the outcomes that concern you.
Separating part as you allege would result in termination of any agreement.
Wait to see where negotiations lead to before getting worried.
Both Israel and Jordan are making concessions.That is how negotiations work.
Why are the Israelis expected to make painful concessions?
The Saudi Solution is a poisoned trap which, if implemented, will involve the giveaway of 70% of Judea and Samaria with the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Jews from those 70% in order to make the “Hashemite Kingdom” contiguous and Judenrein while Israel gets to keep the increasingly violent several millions of its “Arab citizens” with full civil and religious rights (or be accused of being an apartheid).
BTW, what is to prevent the “Hashemite Kingdom” from, in the future, separating its newly acquired Gaza and the West Bank into a “Palestinian” State?
About Mudar, with all his wonderful qualities, he is a mere mortal, and why would he accept expelling Jews out of an Arab state but be against expelling Arabs out of the Jewish state which would amount to a population exchange in return for the vast land gains by the Arab state?
Sounds suspicious to me.
Note this paragraph in the Saudi Plan.
Notice that it isn’t limited to Areas A, B and Gaza. It is close to Trump’s plan which gave Israel 30% of Area C and included the Jordan Valley. The Saudi Plan can do without the Jordan valley.
The Jordan Option differs from the Saudi Plan in that it involves the replacement of the monarchy and the birth of Jordan as a republic. Its present western boundary of the Jordan River remains. The New Jordan does not get sovereignty over any lands west of the River. It simply puts Jordan in charge of the Palestinian Authority which has an administrative role in A, B and Gaza, maybe forever. As such it should be totally acceptable to a majority of Israelis.
The Jordan Option goes further and supports incentivizing Palestinians to emigrate to Jordan. Jordan under Mudar’s leadership is prepared to accept all emigrants but is against the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel. So is Israel.