T. Belman. I originally posted this article on Oct 3/14. It dealt with whether Netanyahu agreed to Kerry’s frame work as a basis for restarting talks. Essentially from Bibi’s own mouth we learn that he agreed to the framework as the basis of negotiations to get them started but was free to not agree to any part of the framework during negotiations. Bibi had no intention of making a deal. He only wanted to preserve negotiations. But the Document of Concessions negotiated in back channels was dated August 2013 long before and independent from the Framework discussion. Today, Dermer explained:
“In complete contrast to what is claimed, at no stage was any concession agreed upon. This was an attempt to ignite negotiations based on the principles of the international community, while Israel retains the right to reject topics that it doesn’t accept.”
YNET discussed Dermer’s role in the most biased way here.
By Ted Belman (Originally posted on Oct 3/14)
In May 2014 I posted:
US to Netanyahu: ‘We oppose unilateral steps’
David Horowitz the Editor of Times of Israel told the PM “Lead, Netanyahu, Lead”. He took him to severe task for releasing murderers and wrote:
It is frankly impossible to reconcile the clear thinking of Netanyahu 1995 with the muddled leadership of Netanyahu 2013 who, rather than facilitate peace talks by the simple and reversible expedient of freezing settlement expansion and acknowledging the indisputable fact that Israel is negotiating on the basis of the pre-1967 lines, as Mahmoud Abbas had demanded, chose to capitulate to the least palatable of Abbas’s preconditions: releasing pre-Oslo era Palestinian terror convicts. The four-phased deal to free some of the most evil killers was a terrible mistake from the start — and not only with the benefit of hindsight, with the peace process in tatters because Israel balked at the final hurdle, refusing to release Israeli-Arabs without at least Abbas’s confirmation that he’d deign to keep on talking past April.
.
As I have written in the past, Netanyahu is negotiating without preconditions, in name only, but in reality has accepted negotiations based on ’67 with swaps..
Today, an old controversy reappeared
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahuanyahu told Israel Radio late Thursday that he had agreed to anAmerican framework proposal whereby Israel would negotiate peace with the Palestinians on the basis of the ’67 cease-fire lines with territorial swaps.
The framework, which was drawn up by US Secretary of State John Kerry as part of Washington’s efforts to re-start the stalled peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, was not presented after negotiations broke down. Both sides accused one another of sabotaging the nine-month talks with unilateral steps.
Netanyahu told Israel Radio that he agreed to the framework, though he and Kerry came to an understanding that the Israeli government could note a number of reservations with certain elements of the document.
Last year, Netanyahu denied that Israel had agreed to resume peace talks based on the ’67 lines.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denied having consented to basing “the border between Israel and the Palestinians on the ’67 borders” in an interview with Israel Radio that was broadcast on Friday morning.
“That is simply untrue,” said Netanyahu. “What happened was that the Americans wanted to propose a framework that will include items the Palestinians reject, such as the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, or the inclusion of territorial swaps as part of an Israeli withdrawal to the ’67 borders. The Americans’ said ‘we will raise this as a proposal for a discussion, and every side will say what they accept and what they reject.'”
Previous postings
Arad said that during the Kerry- brokered negotiations, Netanyahu was “close to accepting a formula he never accepted before, and would be quite a departure for him.” That formula, Arad said, was that the border between Israel and a future Palestinian state would be based on the June 4, 1967, lines, with territorial swaps.
Arad said that accepting the idea of land swaps, even if they were not one-to-one swaps, removed the argument that Israeli settlement policies in the West Bank were part of a “land grab,” since any land beyond the Green Line that Israel would retain would be offset by land inside the Green Line that it would be asked to “swap” with the Palestinians.
Arad described Netanyahu’s acceptance of the formula of land exchanges and borders based on the pre-1967 lines – even if Israel would add reservations to the notion – as a “major qualitative and quantitative change” in the prime minister’s position.
Netanyahu: US framework for peace talks will have elements ‘both sides will dislike,’ Jan 2014
Netanyahu is obviously trying to sell the Kerry Framework. What difference to us does it make, that the other side doesn’t like it too. We should have our red lines period. No wonder Shaked and Bennett are telling Netanyahu that Jewish Home will leave the coalition if Kerry’s Framework is accepted even with reservations. Netanyahu is making minimal demands and certainly sounds like he is willing to negotiate based on the ’67 lines plus minor swaps. He has also bought into the need for an agreement. When one side needs an agreement, it will accept anything. Ted Belman
Netanyahu has caved on border negotiations Aug 2011
INN: Did Bibi Accept Obama’s 1967-Lines Formula?
Israel will reportedly work with Obama’s 1967-lines formula as a basis for peace talks if the PA drops its statehood bid at the UN.
JPOST: Official: Netanyahu ready to discuss border ‘package’
According to both articles, Bibi is doing this to avoid a UN vote and to avoid potential violence. But why? Why are these good reasons to cave. They aren’t, not remotely. A vote by the UNGA would make no difference on the ground. Details would still have to be negotiated. In both case they would involve the armistice lines. As for the violence, that’s what the IDF is for.
@ yamit82:
You think YoursTruly is interested in enslaving you??? — too funny! (You’re nutty as a Xmas fruitcake, and paranoid as the day is long.) I’ve NEVER had any use for followers; I don’t offer support & don’t solicit it.
And when it’s offered to me (as has happened on this site in the past), I don’t accept it except in the most perfunctory way, as a mattter of courtesy (I never absorb it) — and instead encourage the ‘supporter’ to stand on his/her own feet. That’s been my policy since long before I ever put in an appearance on this site.
What I said — about your comment being sound & perceptive — wasn’t flattery. It was a sober, straightforward acknowledgment, uncluttered & unvarnished; no bells & whistles. (If you truly couldn’t see that, Yamit, then you’ve got a WAY bigger problem than anything that’s ever come out of you here so far.)
I’ve always given credit where credit was due; it’s just that simple. But I don’t get to choose when I will give it; that’s a matter of when something creditworthy shows up. And with PresentCompany, the instances are, regrettably, few & far between. You’re just too full of . . . yourself.
Beware your Iago friend, however. For all the purported ‘joking,’ he is not clean — and he knows where you like to be ‘rubbed.’
@ bernard ross:
Don’t disagree but if he can thus enslave me to his side he breaks up much of the force of opposition to his tropes and himself as long as he posts comments on this site.
yamit82 Said:
No, not divide and conquer. I was joking because after writing that long tome about compliments, flattery and being “enslaved”, he then gives you a compliment. Therefore, is he flattering you to enslave you as according to him thats what a compliment is for?
bernard ross Said:
Occurred to me. Attempt to divide and conquer?
Naw . If he agreed he would type 500 words and if he disagreed 2000.
yamit82 Said:
dweller Said:
beware:
dweller Said:
😛 😛 😛
@ yamit82:
Quite sound & perceptive.
@ the phoenix:
comment reply to you in moderation
@ the phoenix:
I didn’t mean to imply that he was your rabbis a bit of sarc/, directed towards him and not you. All of the points he raise have been out there in the public arena for decades.
For us and especially for me there is no revelation here but stating the obvious. That he appeard to have just reached his conclusions speaks more about him. One can say better late than never but if you analyze his text besides th obvious facts he offers his total approcah is viewed from the POV of a scared American Jew and not from a proud Jew who calls himself rabbi. Many Thinking American Jews are becoming worried and even a bit apprehensive but most I don’t think so. Even if the world happened to be peaceful and no threats or wars the American Jewish community is finished. Their birthrate is hovering around 1.2-3 anything lower than 1.9 is disastrous and can’t be fixed. 2 more generations and there will be few identifiable Jews in America. A real rabbi of belief and faith in the Torah would set an example for his flock pack his bags and head for G-d’s country or Jerusalem DC (Davids City).
We in the end will be judged by our actions and deeds. Read the link I supplied to dove
@ yamit82:
Dear yamit,
I would like to bring up only two points as a reply to this short quote:
While any comment posted, is for all to see/read I should have posted it perhaps without a specific “address” .
We all arrive to this blog with different amounts of knowledge, and truth be said, many of us,( and I for sure was one of those) “know” a bunch of stuff that just is not so. I thought the article, to be a very good starting point to get the thinking wheels rolling…
There is obviously no dispute with rabbi Kahane’s essay … In so many ways I admire the man and believe in his message.
My only question, (and I have asked the same thing in a different way, on a different thread)
My question may sound impatient, but it is genuine, and it ties with Ecclesiastes 3.
While I cannot quote verbatim, it was said that in the end… “Yhieh b’seder” . (Nobody stuck their neck out to pin themselves to a timeframe)
Is the “Yhieh b’seder”, referring to NOW, or “acharit hayamim”
(Please take into consideration that there is no voice inflection/intonation in a post, and I am only trying to convey that it is A GENUINE question and not an attempt to be a ‘wise guy’.
PS he is not “my” rabbi….. 😉
@ the phoenix:
Kind of long and very repetitious.
I enjoy watching Muslims harm themselves. That’s my Super Bowl.
Your rabbi is speaking as a scared American academic not as a knowledgeable rabbi.
A real rabbi would have framed it in a Jewish context like this:
“The G-d of Jews is the G-d of History. If He is not this, he is nothing. Only a G-d who creates, directs, decrees, shapes and ordains the present and future is worthy of being worshipped, is deserving of being a G-d. Only a people that believes that its G-d called the world and its inhabitants into being and controls and decrees their destiny, has any logical and intellectual reason to worship Him. A world that is haphazard and a destiny that is at the beck and call of finite man is a world that has no G-d. A G-d that has no control and decisive decree over the fate of man is a myth, a plaything conceived by Man, a thing deservedly consigned to the dust bin of antiquity.
The G-d of the Jews is the G-d of History. He is; He exists; He dominates and controls. He shapes the present and decrees the future. “In the beginning, G-d created the heavens and the earth…” Thus the Torah begins its message to the Jew to let him know that the Jewish G-d exists as a real entity and not some intellectual plaything. He created the past and He controls the present and He wills the future. The Jewish G-d is the G-d of creation, the G-d of History past and future.
Before such a G-d there is fear and awe and in the face of such a G-d another kind of fear disappears.
And earthly fear disappears in the knowledge that the Chosen people of this Omnipotence need fear no nation or might or force on this world and that the Jewish Destiny is – guaranteed by the G-d of History. From the existence of this G-d, from both the awesome fear on the one hand and the certain confidence on the other, emerges an inescapable and imperative path. It is the path of faith and belief. Faith in the Jewish destiny and that if only the Jew remains true to His G-d and his heritage he can never be destroyed or overcome. Belief in the power and will of his G-d to destroy the enemy of the Jews. Faith and belief that all the horses or chariots and all the Jets and nuclear weapons in the world are as nothing before the G-d of History. Faith and belief that the rational and logical and obvious and pragmatic wither away before the power of the Creator and Destroyer, the G-d who shapes and forms, the G-d of History.
Read full essay here:
“the past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth.” George Orwell, 1984, chapter 7
@ yamit82:
Just received this via email. Extremely well written and worth reading, internalizing and repeating!
http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2014/10/01/please-read-this-magnificent-rosh-ha-shana-sermon-by-rabbi-shlomo-lewis-of-atlanta-georgia/
@ dove:
ISIS will not be stopped or defeated from the air raids. The West will eventually tire of the air assaults and the Arab States will not commit to ground forces and even if they will they will get there asses handed to them on a platter. Obama just wants to ride out his term and leave the consequences to the next president.
The West is unwilling to stand with Israel, but the West is also unwilling to stand with the West. The Europeans and this American administration refuse to acknowledge Islamic terrorism, much less fight it. If the French and the Dutch won’t condemn Muslims who are destroying France and the Netherlands, it’s unrealistic to expect them to support Israeli self-defense. Some of their hostility toward Israel is antisemitism, but I suspect that some of it comes from shame. The Israelis have been far more willing to fight back, and that must make the Europeans feel really inadequate. Europeans have traditionally viewed Jews as being patsies, so it must kill them that the roles have been reversed. I can’t prove it, but I think envy plays a huge role in the criticism of Israel. If true, that means the more criticism of Israel the better. When Israel bombed the Iraqi reactor, it was a case of “Condemn me now. Thank me (in hushed tones) later.” The same thing will be true with combating Muslim terrorism. Israel must lead the way because everyone else has flinched. Heavy unfair burden, but when it’s sink or swim you just have to stop bitching and swim.
I think That ISIS is being used as a diversion away from Iran. Obama it seems is on board and Iran will get it.
Israel I believe has lost her opportunity to effectivy stop Iran without using tactical Nukes. Don’t think BB has the tangerines for it.
Massive blast reported at suspected Iranian nuke facility
TEHRAN, Iran — Two people were killed in an explosion at a defense ministry plant east of Tehran for the production of explosives, Iran’s state news agency IRNA reported Monday.
The Defense Industries Organisation, quoted by IRNA, said the fire broke out at the plant on Sunday night but it gave no further details.
The BBC, citing a report from the semi-official Iranian Students News Agency (ISNA) reported on Monday that the incident happened in an “explosive materials production unit” at the site that is south-east of the capital Tehran
Sometimes we do have to get out head out of the clouds and deal with the real issues facing us……
@ yamit82:
That’s nice Yamit but with most Jews that I know if you tried pointing them to the heavens you’d probably get your finger bit off! Given our history and the uncertainty of the times we live in and how we are going to get through it.
We worry about endurance.
@ dove:
concluding Friday night prayers!!!
This is what it’s all about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irAG3q8TGU
@ the phoenix:
That is VERY interesting. Perhaps the message is that we need to find comfort in each other as we have a common history, a common understanding. We know that we are once again we are in uncharted territory.
@ dove:
Dear dove,
Thank you kindly . It is indeed much appreciated. As I listened to the clip with some amusement at their Russian accents and how practically all looked like KGB men zeroing in on a target (not in an arrogant way) it DID move me nonetheless, and it got me thinking, that indeed sometimes one DOES get the answer he is looking for.. But it comes from a totally unexpected, and many a time from an unknown (heretofore) source.
When the clip ended it has Barbara Streisand in the upper left corner. She is singing there Avinu Malkeinu.
I must have listened to that ONE clip yesterday for dozens of times…
@ the phoenix:
You will get the answers to your questions phoenix.
I shared with a Rabbi that I had a friend who asked me to ‘put in a good word for him.’ The Rabbi said ‘then DO IT. That’s what Yom Kippur is all about!!
He said ‘It will come. He will get his answer’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Mk1BKJSqxOo
@ yamit82:
As I’ve shown before — amply, repeatedly, and in excruciating detail — nothing you’ve provided in this regard has EVER stood up to scrutiny . . . . as you know quite well.
“Fickle”? — that’s a new one. Dunno where you’re going with that. You’ll have to elaborate.
Neither. The Golan was no more the reason than Osirak was. The F-4 thing was all for show.
RR had intel that IAF was well enough stocked for its present needs, and he needed cover for some short-term juggling in the UN, and also (less importantly) to get Crazy Cap to cool his OWN jets. So he made a tzimmes of the F-4’s; it was a fig leaf. After 6 months, the phantoms came in, pretty as you please. This is a tempest in a teapot.
That’s just not so — not in “every way,” not in ANY way. What their policies DO suggest is that they want the American people to THINK of the settlements as ‘illegal’ — but that they know that the people DON’T think that at present. (Nor is there hard data indicating such sentiment among the people.)
If what you say were so, then Susan Rice (as USA Amb to the UN), would not have cast the one “Nay” vote in the whole Sec. Council a couple yrs ago on the Lebanese Resolution declaring the settlements ‘illegal.’
If policy was (as you claim) to view them as ‘illegal,’ then
— why did they move heaven & earth to get Abbas to go for a re-drafting of the Resolution to replace the crisp & precise word, “illegal,” with the far more subjective, “illegitimate,” and thus enable the Admin to vote “Aye” and make the damned thing unanimous? — How come, huh?
Don’tcha think those corksoakers would’ve liked to call them ‘illegal’???
Yeah, the law matters.
It aint everything — but it matters.
@ yamit82:
I’ve said LOTS of times that there’s no substitute for full independence & total sovereignty. If a country has the stuff & the will to be free, it should reject vassalage
— along with all the goodies that come with it.
But all this sturm-und-drang is off-point. I was simply replying to Dove’s comment that BHO had made like Israel owed him for the Iron Dome funding. My response was that GOI didn’t. We don’t disagree over that point. You’ve just created another straw man to argue against at 3:30 in the morning.
I didn’t suggest that. Told you, I didn’t even bring up the subject. Dove was relating what BHO had said & I responded. Re-read the sequence of postings.
You’re mad at yourself for wishing it without allowing, at the time, for the fact that none of us can ever see around corners in time. So you had a head-on collision with the Law of Unintended Consequences. (I sympathize.) In a manner of speaking, you pulled a Yiftach.
Moral of the story:
Always be careful what you pray for — you might get it.
All presidents — w/o exception — fall somewhere in between.
RR was, by far, the best of the lot.
Someday, a president will come along, with the will & the wherewithal to take a backhoe to the entrenched Foggy Bottom bureaucracy — shovel it out from top to bottom. Till then, we must make do.
I’ve given you LOADS of opportunities to make the case — and every time you’ve tried, I’ve sliced & diced, shredded & pureed your ‘evidence’ more thoroughly than a Cuisinart — and you know it, boychik’l.
No. My ‘position,’ my perception, is that there was not a scintilla of perfidy in Reagan — not a scrap, not a smidgeon, not a soupçon— and one needn’t ‘worship’ the man to see that. All it takes is a genuinely open mind
— which you lack.
@ the phoenix:
Get back to you later.
dweller Said:
That’s why I said we don’t owe congress shit. They always load something on to their own benefit or to other countries like Egypt Jordan he Saudis etc. When you match what Israel gets against the combined sales and aid to our enemies we come out on the short end of the stick. Israel has to spend 1.5 dollars just to match dollar for dollar to maintain parity. We can’t do it and will and are suffering from an imbalance against us. Congress besides padding their own constituencies use Israel to pass legislation to Arab and Muslim countries and insures Israel won’t make a stink that might hurt them politically.
If there are as we agree no free lunches why even suggest the possibility we owe the Americans anything?
America and Israels leader have maneuvered Israel into a vassalage relationship and every continuation and increase in aid insures it’s continuation. I wanted for that Reason for Obama to throw us under the bus and force BB to accept a situation of no choice but to read the tea leaves and change course in our relations buy getting us off American aid and asserting an independent course. I knew BB was weak and lacking in character but I never realized or believed he would grovel and concede at all cost to the American diktat.
You excuses for the Reagan admin are pathetic like he didn’t have Kissinger, Schultz, Baker and Schocroft to name a few.
Either he was an empty shell totally manipulated or the president of the USA and commander in chief who signed off by signature all directives relating tto the matter we are discussing. You can’t have it both ways and you can’t blame State for the failings failures of the president any more than you can credit only state for successes.
Reagan was responsible whether he understood what and why he was doing it or not. I think he was no more than a stupid Jew hating SOB and I can find and have more supportive evidence than you can not. your position is excuse instead of responsibility blaming all and anyone for the perfidy of those you worship and support politically, ideologically and theologically. You use the same MO in defuse of each.
I stand by my position and have given in the past enough evidence to support it. You give interpretation unsupported except in your own fickle mind.
The embargo of the phantoms was because Reagan was pissed off at Begin for annexing the Golan. The Iraqi reactor was not the real reason but only the immediate excuse.
illegal settlements? In law they are not illegal so what if America a country ruled by rule of law recognizes the facts? Their policies in every way suggest that they are illegal without using the term, the policies and non recognition are the same. Unlike you I deal in facts as they re presented and verified you on belief and faith and trust in your idols.
I’ll stick with the evidence and not suppositions based on what you want to or don’t want to believe or concede. That’s your weakness.
“Girls In Baseball Don’t Cry”
@ yamit82:
Sincere thanks for the vote of confidence.
They say that one is known by his opponents
— and I sure-as-blazes wouldn’t want to think I was losing my touch.
@ yamit82:
That was why I wrote, “It may (or may not) be correct to say that GOI owes Congress…”
That applies to assistance to anybody, not exclusively Israel.
NOBODY does; welcome to the real world — now you can go back to sleep (dreaming of a Jewish papacy, w/ ‘I-wonder-who?’ in the leading role).
Just for fun, right?
Your insipid Reagan rantings are not only malicious; they’re also tiresome. Get a life, shmendrick.
You can’t be THAT stupid — nobody is.
It was Reagan who reversed the Carter state dept ruling that the settlements are ‘illegal.’
And no other president, from that day to this, has dared disturb that clearly stated position — despite relentless DoS pressure to do so.
Told you half-a-dozen times already:
That decision was made at Foggy Bottom — not the Oval Office. It’s true that Reagan might’ve RESISTED it harder than he did, but Begin had overplayed his hand (a couple of times) and RR wasn’t sure he could be trusted.
Nor was it known to DC then as clearly as it is now the degree to which Pali stringers (like those in Lebanon at the time) are capable of deliberately fabricating the news.
But the truth is that if you keep looking for a scar, you’re bound to find one sooner or later — and for some people (such as yourself) , if they can’t find one, they’ll manage to concoct one.
@ yamit82:
@ yamit82:
What ‘bravado’ — let alone ‘slime’ (to say nothing of ‘skin’) — has my comment, which you’ve referenced here twice, got to do with anything?
Your (repeated) post is a reply to a comment of mine on another thread altogether.
It’s utterly irrelevant here — except to confirm (and demonstrate) in the clearest of terms
— that you enjoy being pissed off.
It’s one sick puppy you are.
@ yamit82:
So who is left yamit?
WHO? W.H.O.? … (Is there an owl in the room?… 😉 )
Just as I am back to the drawing board thinking that I found THE answer, you sweep the rag from under my feet… 🙁
Let me try and pin you down.
Do you think this will happen IN OUR LIFETIME or we’re talking here “b’acharit hayamim” (whenever that might be)
And if yes, in our lifetime, then behind whom do you think the people should rally?
@ the phoenix:
There will be no revolution because the religious Zionists are boy scouts who have elevated the State into a Golden Calf.
They have been brainwahed into obediece to the state and it’s authority from birth by their rabbis who are all paid by the state and would never kill the goode that lays their golden eggs.
Without a hecsher from the rabbis they will not act on their own.
@ dweller:
The Iron Dome is 100% Israeli Developed using no American technology. Israel has invested out of our own budgets some 2 billion dollars. 2 years or so upon request for specific aid for this project Congress approved some $5oo million for the project but added the condition that Israel hand over the patents to the USA and subcontract production to Raytheon.
That makes the project today an American project where Israel mostly does the R&D and upgrades. The conditions also give the Americans veto over any Israeli 3rd party sales.
Deal grate for America because they bought a system tested under combat conditions off the shelf for peanuts. Raytheon or other contractors would have spent almost a trillion dollars for anything similar and 5 years or more before they system would become operational.
Deal bad for Israel because we gave up our independence and sovereignty for a billion dollars.
Obama has the power to delay delivery and or transfer of any sales or cash transfers to Israel.
He did allow Israel to draw needed munitions from American stores in the Negev when Israel ran short in the 3rd week of the war.
your congress in any resolution or law passed favorable to Israel always attaches the power of a Presidential waiver so he can bypass the conditions of laws and agreements with Israel. Congress and America give no free lunches.
Your demi-god RR held up F-4 phantoms for over a year and those we paid for.
Obama is certainly no worse so far than was RR maybe even better, Reagan allowed Arafat and the PLO to escape Lebanon
and we no looking back how well that turned out for us.
Reagan for Israel was the Plague and Obama Ebola either one they screwed us big time. You are not big in the profundity and erudition dept.
@ dweller:
Bravado from a slime who has no skin in the game!!!! I suupose you can make up for: 12-15 billion dollars in lost Israeli exports, tens of thousands of Jobs to those who need them and a few billion in grants to research institutions and universities?
Where you going to get that kind of dough, from your savings on using public computers and easting frugally at home instead of eating out?
I would expect from such an opinionated genius to have and offer constructive suggestions as to where we can on the fly make up our economic losses before suggesting we cut off our noses to spite our faces.
Then genius you have none because you don’t think further than the tip of your tongue and I doubt it’s as long as K.I.S.S’s.
@ d-w-e-l-l-e-r:
dweller Said:
Bravado from a slime who has no skin in the game!!!! I suupose you can make up for: 12-15 billion dollars in lost Israeli exports, tens of thousands of Jobs to those who need them and a few billion in grants to research institutions and universities?
Where you going to get that kind of dough, from your savings on using public computers and easting frugally at home instead of eating out?
I would expect from such an opinionated genius to have and offer constructive suggestions as to where we can on the fly make up our economic losses before suggesting we cut off our noses to spite our faces.
Then genius you have none because you don’t think further than the tip of your tongue and I doubt it’s as long as K.I.S.S’s.
@ dove:
In USA, it is the Legislative Branch of govt — not the Executive — that appropriates money.
It was CONGRESS which approved funding for Iron Dome, not BHO.
During the Gaza fighting, the Administration (Hagel & DoD) did make a big to-do about urging Congress to increase the appropriation & to fast-track it, so His Wonderfulness could sign it into law. But that was all for show. Mid-term elections are coming up shortly. . . .
They knew there was OVERWHELMING support among the American people for augmenting the funding, and that therefore if the administration didn’t say anything, the Congress was poised to order the funding shortly anyway.
And they are scared witless about a sea-change in DC after November 4. So they just ‘got out in front of the parade as it went by.’
It may (or may not) be correct to say that GOI owes Congress (esp, the House of Representatives) for the Iron Dome funding — but the President?
— Israel doesn’t owe Mr Obama a thimble full of sugared spit.
I saw a clip of the interview on channel 2 news from Jerusalem. Here are BB’s exact words after Obama spoke. Obama likes to keep giving a dig that the US helped supply Israel with Iron Dome and he keeps implying that Israel keeps owing him something for that. BB said ‘I am then committed to a vision of peace for 2 states for 2 peoples based on mutual recognition….etc’.
We already know there will not be the mutual recognition so rather than being repetitive (especially after this past summer) BB should be more direct and blunt that this dream of 2 states is obviously not going to work…..one will survive…..one will not. Israel will survive.
We do not build tunnels into Gaza. We not use residential areas as launching zones. We do not use children as human shields. yada yada yada The PROOF goes on and on…..so why not use it???
the americans wanted to get credit for having an agreement even if it was pure BS. It appears obvious that BB did not agree to 67 borders with swaps but only agreed to talk about it. It’s an american con game. Next thing though the con artists will say it was agreed in the same way the US swindlers reneged on the bush letter.
this statement certifies the despicable anti semitic canard that YS belongs to the pals and that Israel is a thief if it does not pay for any land it takes. I find this to be sickening, this Jews says that the Jews are illegitimate to own YS. These are the aholes who reinforce the anti semitc canards of illegitimate Jewish settlement in Jerusalem and in Israel.
If I were to believe and accept arad’s logic I would have to agree with the arabs also that the Jews should leave tel aviv and return to poland, or pay the arabs for the land stolen by the Jews between the med and the jOrdan. Perhaps the jews of tel aviv should pay a special tax so that the arabs can be paid for the land stolen by the european jewish thieves. We can see where these disgusting libels are born: among the Jews.
Why would Hashem choose such people to bless with the land of Israel? Those who spent too much time haggling in bazaars see everything as settling on a price.
@ yamit82: So you are talking about diets before Yom Kippur. I did loose some weight however and I now weigh for the last year or so the same as I did in college. Anyway have a good ZOM (fast)!
I think BB lacks confidence. I like that guy that gave an interview on Al Jazeer. Can’t remember which post that was on. He is clear, concise and convincing.
I don’t think BB knows how to be that way without coming off that he doesn’t want peace.
Of course we want peace…for OURSELVES and there is nothing wrong with that. When we have that then we can be a proper light unto the nations.
Bear Klein Said:
Weren’t you the dietary consultant to Karen Carpenter? 😉
Bear Klein Said:
Your track record in support of BB is wanting. You are buying into the spin.
@ the phoenix:
They were being double crossed by SHABAK implants psssing a Y & S leaders. They were cornered into Kfar Maimon.
Just as much, now pretend apologetic rabbanim also entrapped multitudes. It is up to the people to wise up and tramp the infiltrators.
All the bashers of Bibi and their are many on all sides of the political spectrum, state opinions not facts. No one has agreed at all ever to give up the Jordan Valley plus the settlement blocks. No one has agreed to pull out of any of the settlement blocks. No one has agreed to withdraw anywhere. No one has agreed to pull the IDF of Y/S. The Pals have agreed to nothing. There are no negotiations and they were never going anywhere because the PLO went to the talks under duress, as did Israel.
Ya’alon was clear we are not pulling out of Judah and Samaria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are clear signs that we are in the early stage of the next intifada starting in East Jerusalem. If Abbas pulls the security cooperation with the IDF that will the sign that the next intifada is on full blown.
No is pulling out of anywhere sorry Bibi bashers, simply not true!
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Well, that is PRECISELY my point…
Where were they when their brethren homes were being bulldozed?
How could the tragedy of amona be allowed to take place???
@ the phoenix:
Hillel was never my cup of tea… Much too Liberal and anti Judaism.. Shammai has been validated by history and historical fact.
Who ever said that??? You are misreading.
How we act determines the condition that apply to Kohelet 3
We know the ending but most of how the scrpit unfolds is up to us. You have to view everything in that context.
If most of the Jews had heeded the Torah and Zionist in the pre Nazi era how many Jews would have perished? Yet the choice was largely in their own hands and they paid the price. Life is ultimately about making choices and we are supposed to act as Jews to follow what G-d has prescribed for us. We can choose to reject but that is our choice and suffer any consequences. We can hasten the redemption or allow it to come in it’s own time.
Our actions and choices will determine which.
The secret is behaving and acting properly according to any given situation as it applies to each of us individually and most importantly collectively as Jews.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
I’ve been saying for a long time that it seems to me that unfortunately it is inevitable, that such two diametrically opposite ideological camps could share the same space…
SOMETHING must give!
There is a YouTube clip of the late rabbi kahane where he is talking about the state of Judea with its own flag, stamps etc.
I posted in the past about a book (code kahol) that is describing just such a scenario…
Would carmiel and dimona be part of this land mass?
🙂
@ the phoenix:
The situation in Y & S is far different than the conditions leading to Gush Katif’s Pogrom. In GK there were barely 8000 “victims of peace” in waiting.
In Y & S there are half a million militarily trained Jews. And my estimate is that they may well be joined by at least another million.
It is a matter of what will the masses do and who can claim the crown and lead them.
Numerically there is enough manpower to mince enemies galore.
@ yamit82:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
In light of your statements, which unfortunately, seem to be true without a shadow of a doubt, how do we reconcile with Ecclesiastes 3?
Is this then, ‘the time for treason’?
And then, how do we reconcile with Hillel’s ‘if I am not for myself, who is for me?’
And further, if we are to listen to the rest, (‘and if not NOW when?’) then… Then what?
It seems that on one hand, one should not worry, since for everything there is a time, and, for all intents and purposes it is (practically) a done deal.
On the other hand, we are told to take initiative and look out for ourselves BY ourselves…..
Will someone please put this confused phoenix out of his misery?
@ yamit82:
The real condition is far worse than that.
I am starting to doubt that we have in fact any true strategic advantage against our enemies. I even doubt that that we have the military power to defend ourselves.
The people must start to look into where the taxpayer’s money is going…
Bottom line… We have been betrayed in far worse fashion than we ever thought possible.
In reality all Israel is really negotiating for is the 7% of the Land it has since Oslo declared it wants to keep. The rest de-facto has already been ceded. What has only been offered in the past has already been pocketed and demarcated as Judenrein by the Palis the UN members and the President of the USA. A peace agreement for the size of a large parking Lot in Texas does to their way of thinking not justify not sealing an agreement.
Yes I suppose size does matter!!!!
Just as Egypt held out and got 100% of the territory they lost so to Did Jordan receive 100% plus the territory they lost along the Jordan. So the Palis are demanding and receiving so far 93-95% of the West Bank. They like the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians want 100% of Lands Israel conquered in 67.
We know and have Proof BB offered Assad all of the Golan up to he ridge and was even prepared to cede more with the aid then of Moshe Ayalon then head of Mil. Intelligence.
The only thing that has held BB back in the past and the present is fear of not being able to sell his sellout capitulation to the Israeli people and his coalition…..
Our PM BB is ruled almost totally by fear….He simply has no nectarines!!!!
For those Fasting this Yom Kippur “Tzom Kal”
Collective weaklings or sold out filth do not appeal to me.
Netanyahu is not doing a thing he has not driven for.
Since Oslo the unJews have consistently guided their “partners” to take over everywhere and their pretense of being against such take over sell to others not to me.