Israeli intelligence urges return to peace talks with Palestinians
HAARETZ
Foreign Ministry, Shin Bet, Mossad and MI documents recommend progress vis-a-vis Palestinians in order to tone down tensions and anger, and improve Israel’s diplomatic standing.
In recent weeks the Foreign Ministry, Military Intelligence, the Shin Bet security service and the Mossad have distributed a number of documents stating that a return to negotiations would tone down tensions and anger against Israel.
The documents, issued ahead of the expected UN vote on a Palestinian state, also state that while changes in the Arab world could be a threat to Israel, they also represent opportunities for Israel to improve its diplomatic standing.
Netanyahu, Abbas, Obama
“All the documents recommend progress vis-a-vis the Palestinians,” a source close to Defense Minister Ehud Barak said.
In recent meetings of the eight senior cabinet ministers, Barak told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the other ministers that the focus should be on Israel’s interests and not on symbolic issues like national honor. If Israel does not try to seriously move the peace process ahead, it will be seen as obstructionist by its friends in the West, Barak told the ministers.
“By sharpening tensions with the Palestinians, we are inviting isolation on Israel,” Barak also told the octet.
Barak believes the security cabinet should not to be dealing with tactical matters such as an apology to Turkey or evacuating the embassy in Cairo, but with strategic issues involving Israel’s standing in the region. “The signs are there; afterward we’ll have to ask ourselves what we could have done differently,” Barak said in closed conversations.
Meanwhile, France and Spain, along with the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, are in advanced stages of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority over a “package deal” that will enable the 27 member states of the EU to vote at the United Nations General Assembly in favor of upgrading the PA to the status of a non-permanent member of the UN.
The Europeans are also trying to gain the United States’ agreement to abstain from the vote and continue its financial aid to the Palestinians, in return for a promise by PA President Mahmoud Abbas not to take Israel to the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
Three senior European diplomats involved in the negotiations told Haaretz that the PA president had informed the EU of his decision not to turn to the UN Security Council on September 20 and request that Palestine be accepted as a full member of the organization.
Abbas, who realizes that the United States will exercise its veto power at the Security Council, has decided to turn to the UN General Assembly, whose resolutions are less binding, in order to seek the support of the European Union member states in the vote.
Abbas is expected to meet in Cairo today with Ashton, who is in charge of the EU’s foreign policy, and with the foreign ministers of the Arab League Monitoring Committee. During both meetings the diplomatic deal being worked out will be discussed.
Among the elements included in the package being negotiated are the following:
a. The Palestinians will ask the UN General Assembly to upgrade their standing to something similar to that of the Vatican, which has permanent observer status at the international body. This will enable the Palestinians to be full members in a series of international organizations.
b. A large block of the 27 member states of the EU will vote in favor of the resolution, but the resolution will include a clause stating that the vote does not require that each state recognize the Palestinian state on a bilateral level. This is a critical condition for gaining the support of Germany and Italy to the vote. It is assumed that if this is accepted, at least 20 of the 27-member block will vote in favor of the resolution.
c. The Palestinians will commit to resuming negotiations with Israel immediately following the vote at the UN, without any preconditions.
d. The wording of the resolution the Palestinians will bring before the General Assembly will be balanced and will combine elements of the speeches of U.S. President Barack Obama of May 19, 2011, and the conclusion of the EU’s Foreign Affairs Council of December 2009. In other words, the negotiations will be held on the basis of the 1967 borders with an exchange of territory and a statement according to which the EU will be ready to recognize the Palestinian state “at an appropriate time.”
Meanwhile, France and Spain, along with the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, are in advanced stages of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority over a “package deal” that will enable the 27 member states of the EU to vote at the United Nations General Assembly in favor of upgrading the PA to the status of a non-permanent member of the UN.
In parallel, the Palestinians are holding consultations with Germany, Britain and Italy on an agreed wording for the resolution, which would enable the three large EU member states to vote in favor. Spanish and French diplomats noted that they are very close to achieving an understanding with the Germans.
Ashton and the five large EU countries are keen to avoid an internal European division over the issue. “We will do everything possible not to isolate Germany,” European diplomats said.
A senior German diplomat did not deny the developments and said that his country is interested in a “package deal” with the Palestinians on a balanced resolution.
Yes, presently, to the latter question (although I’m sure that any number of our in-country posters will confirm that the OBSERVANT sector is, by far, the fastest growing element of the populace).
To your first question, it’s important to understand that the prospect of a general breakdown need not involve active resistance on the part of the entire citizenry, or even a majority of them, to make a govt think twice. (Which is not necessarily, in ANY event, to suggest that I’m proposing that sort of thing; rather, I’m saying what I see.)
More specifically, though, I seriously doubt that the experience of the Gaza hitnatkut has left many of the heartland’s residents with the feeling that the passive, tearful acquiescence that characterized summer 2005 is truly what’s called for if they too are to be expelled. That altered tone and manner are certain to spill over into substantial proportions of the broader Israel populace if it gets to looking like G.O.I. is truly fixing to relinquish the land.
One man’s opinion of course.
Hi 82. That was some reasoning. Point of view gives other explanations. The Babylonians, along with the Sumerians, both of ancient Iraq, were one of the greatest civilizations the world has ever known. They invented farming, from them came the Code of Hammurabi, the first reading and writing in cuneiform, mathematics (including the concept of zero), the beginnings of medicine, astronomy, astrology, architecture, engineering, literature–the list is long. I’m sure you’re thinking about the Babylonians in 586 BCE razing Jerusalem, capturing Jews and forcing them to go to Babylon. That may have been a blessing in disguise, for there the Jews had access to vast libraries and an advanced civilization, and they made the most of it for the 70 years they were captives. I don’t think the Jews were treated badly because some chose to remain when Cyrus the Great freed them, some went to Arabia (the first Jews there), and others chose to return to Jerusalem and rebuild. The Persians much later destroyed them. Some of Babylons’ ancient cuneiform tablets are still being translated, and not long ago a scholar in England found a name in the cuneiforms that is also in the Torah!
One subject that James Kugel’s book _How To Read The Bible_ covered was that Jewish scribes and scholars, in copying the Torah century after century, would make additions and deletions according to how a subject was panning out. The Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls shows “that the Biblical text was pluriform and still developing prior to the Jewish Revolts in 66 CE and 132 CE.” If the words of wisdom were not relaying an absolute truth in their eyes, they would change it. So writing the Torah was an ongoing editor’s job.
Scholars have discovered what they call “isolative interpreted insertions” that are in the margins or inserted in some way in Isaiah. In the Dead Sea version scholars found one of these in the last verse of Chapter 2 of Isaiah:
Oh, cease to glorify man,
who has only a breath in his nostrils.
For by what does he merit esteem?
Imagine the ancient scribe who, reading the text of Isaiah, inserted this text into it.
Is it not peachy? The “ha’aretz” found a stash of documents originated at the famed and infested various services that propose for Isrel to continue to implode to “pacify” mortal enemies.
Basicxally so the unJews “partners” can continue to slice away.
We must not forget that those services have proven consistent on one thing only. FAILURE.
From before and including Oslo to every process thereafter including but not limited to “disengagement”, retreat on the run from Lebanon security zone, the Iranian nuclear program, and so on.
Israel must clean up those stables and drive for a self assured posture.
Chaldeans are Christian Iraqis, right? I knew some in high school(everyone referred to them as camels). But weren’t many Christian Iraqis expelled recently by Muslim Iraqis?
Now Yamit, before I forget, do the seculars in Israel view Yehuda and Shomron the same way the settlers and/or the observants do? I’m aware of how Tzipi Livni feels about the settlers and the observants. It’s also my understanding that a modern Tel Aviv is more removed from Israel’s attacks and is historically more leftist than most anywhere else in Israel.
And who is the leader today of the Christian World? Uncle Lavon (Labon)that’s who.
Basra (Iraq)in biblical prophesy
JEREMIAH CHAPTER 49
Vv 7-13: The vengeance against Edom . RaDaK (on v 7) states that this prophecy relates to the future fall of Edom . Jeremiah’s prophecy against Edom parallels those of Obadiah, Isaiah (ch 34) and Ezekiel (25:12-14).
V 12: “Behold, those who do not deserve to drink the cup will surely drink – shall you [ Edom ] go unpunished?” The other nations that oppressed Israel were not their brothers and deserved less of a punishment than Edom, who was Israel’s brother yet still oppressed them (Rashi).
Vv 14-22: Depiction of the terrible fall of Edom .
V 22: “Behold, like an eagle he will ascend and fly and spread his wings over Basra .” The Basra mentioned here is popularly identified with Basra in Iraq , although scholars consider this to refer to a town called Basra in the south of present-day Jordan , which is where the original territory of Edom was located. Nevertheless, in relation to the popular identification with Basra in Iraq.
What Christian nation sits today in Basra?
Yes, Yamit, yes.
I was referencing Ezekiel 38-39.
Dweller says:
Will the public resist? Is Israel’s majority secular?
Origin of Edom, Babylon, and Rome, or Christianity
God has declared that he has “magnified his Word above all his name.” (Ps. 138:2.) How very careful then should we be to give diligent heed to his Written Word.
It is, therefore, of the utmost importance that we become acquainted with the Genealogy of the Gentiles, who are Esau, or Edom, for God has declared “that every one of the Mount (or House) of Esau may, or shall, be cut off by slaughter,” (see Obad. 9 v.,) and that “there shall not be any remaining of the House of Esau,* for the Lord has spoken it.” Verse 18th.
* God confirms this and says “Amalek was first of the nations , (Amalek was son of Eliphaz, and grandson to Edom or Esau, see Gen. 36:9 and 12,) but his latter end shall be that he perish forever,” (Num. 24:20,) and this corresponds with Obadiah and all the rest of the Prophets.
If these words of God be true–we cannot, and should not, spare any pains, however great, in order to ascertain who Esau, or Edom, is. See Gen. 27:30 and 36.
The Spirit of God identifies Edom with Babylon. (See Ps. 137:7 and 8.) “Remember, O Lord, the children of Edom, in the day of Jerusalem, who said Raze it, raze it,” (i.e. make bare or destroy the Temple, as Edom did under the Romans,) “even to the foundation thereof.” “O daughter of Babylon,” &c. Here we see, without any possibility of mistake, that Edom is Babylon , and all sacred and profane history confirms it. Chaldea, or Babylon, was established by Assyria. Isaiah 23:13, says, “Behold the land of the Chaldeans, this people was not till the Assyrian founded it for them. The capital of Chaldea was Babylon. The Assyrian empire embraced the country on both sides of the Tigris. Babel, or Babylon, was founded by Nimrod, (see Gen. x. 10,) about A. M. 3416. The Assyrians descended from Taurus, and Caucasus conquered and destroyed Jerusalem, together with Syria; and these, with Phoenicia, became the Roman Empire, and was called Chaldea; as it was in the time of Jesus under Tiberius Caesar. (See Luke 3:1.) From the East the Chaldeans, or Romans, peopled all the west; first Italy, Rome, France, Germany, England and America. Rome was founded by Romulus, 750 B. C. After Jesus 325, Christianity became the established religion, under Constantine;* hence Babylon, Rome, Edom, and Christianity are synonymous.
http://www.jewish-history.com/cresson/cresson25.html
Are you quite sure about that?
— even if it shows promise of bringing a breakdown of public order?
You know that. I know that. Most everyone here knows that. Yet it’s easier to make the jews conform to what the non philistine arabs and the world wants than to make the Arabs make any sort of concession. I think eventually Israeli government will relent and give up the land. You may have peace for a little while, but because the hatred the muzzies have is idealogical and not just territorial, it won’t be a lasting peace. Since hedonist Europe and the decadent U.S. are sorely lacking any moral compass, and on top of that, leftist American Jewry and their Israeli 5th columnist counterparts within Israel will continue to side with the musloids, Israel’s list of friend’s grows shorter. Whatever happens, I’m not sure I’d want to be standing near those who facilitate the division of the land.
Barak refers to “friends” in the west but I’m curious as to when exactly did “friends” start encouraging friends to commit suicide?
Know this Israel, according to prophecy, Iran, Russia and Turkey will figure prominently in your future. They are not to be trusted.
I agree
— on all points.
Well reasoned
— and well said.
No amount of Israeli goodwill gestures or further unilateral concessions will bring Israel peace. Senior Israeli policymakers have their heads stuck in the sand.
The assault on the Israeli embassy in Cairo should have served as a wakeup call to Israel’s branja but won’t be.
Its tough to reconcile whatever truth there is in Barak’s following quoted reported statement, with the folly of what he says:
Barak is right generally that Israel should be seriously moving the peace process ahead. As regards the adjective “seriously”, its tough to figure what Barak means by that since Israel is the one that invariably is the one to push for the peace process to move ahad.
Is Barak suggesting that those efforts were not serious?
Does Barak not impose the same standard of serious effort on the Palestinians? Afterall, it takes two parties in conflict to negotiate. Does Barak actually think that the Palestinians have been serious whereas, Israel has not?
Symbolic issues, like national honor are a mainstay of the Palestinian/Arab negotiating strategy, when they deign to negotiate. Why does Barka seek to deny Israel’s need to conjoin issues of symbolic import with issues of national import such as addressing security needs?
Barak goes on to say:
Has Barak not noticed that Israel has been viewed as obstructionist no matter what efforts she has engaged in for peace. Further, Israel is being isolated by even Western states that ignore Israel’s efforts and Palestinian obstructionist efforts when they don’t negotiate and duplicitous efforts when they do pretend to negotiate.
Its tough to figure that Barak, who should know better regardless of his ideological bent, is aligning with Israel’s Western critics who put sole responsibility on Israel to somehow make Western dreams of a 2 state peace solution suddenly materialize in spite of Palestinian/Arab efforts to avoid making that Western dream a reality.
Interesting that the Palestinians, banking on a majority UNGAR yes vote to declare it a state, will then be prepared to sit down and negotiate with NO PRE-CONDITIONS.
Really?
This is Kafkaesque and the fodder for political satirists like George Orwell to take us into the realm of the surreal to see the real.
Europe is morally degenerate and Barak lacks any pride.
By bypassing the negotiating process and going to the UN, they have reneged on all of their previous agreements and commitments not only to Israel by the International community that ratified those agreements and commitments. Why then should the members of the UN seek a balanced resolution? There is a reason, the party being screwed is Israel.
If the UNGA votes in favor of a Palis resolution I would quit the UN. That’s the message that should be conveyed by Israel. If Israel would follow through with only half the threats of retaliation voiced by members of the government then I would say we welcome such a positive vote.
There is no honor, in negotiating with terrorists.
Well we all know Ehud Barak has no sense of honor, national or otherwise. He’d sell his own mother for a leg up, sniveling, rat featured little cretin.
“Friends in the West.” HA!
Why should the U.S. taxpayer continue funding anyone when we’re having financial troubles of our own? Why are we responsible for providing welfare to foreigners who have no allegiance to the United States?