Moshe Arens says we should have eliminated Hamas

Former Israeli defense minister says conflict looms with Hamas

Former Defense Minister Moshe Arens (1983-84, 1990-92, 1999) kept a skeptical eye on the reports that emerged this week from the International Donors’ Conference in Cairo for Reconstructing Gaza on Oct. 12. In an interview with Al-Monitor, Arens said the billions of dollars pledged on behalf of the Gaza civilian population would reach Hamas hands and serve them for rearmament. Thus, in Arens’ opinion, the next round of fighting between Hamas and Israel is only a matter of time.

Arens, who will turn 89 in December, is a member of the Likud movement and former Israeli ambassador to Washington. To this very day, Arens is viewed as one of Israel’s most esteemed Israeli defense ministers, who enjoyed excellent, intimate relationships with US administrations throughout his tenures. He refuses to get agitated from the descriptions and reports of acrimonious conflicts between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Barack Obama administration. According to Arens, the Israel-US relationship is better today than ever.

Arens’ criticism of Netanyahu, the man he politically mentored during Netanyahu’s early years in politics, is that the prime minister is not wisely devoting himself to strengthening the alliance with Israeli Arabs. Arens feels that this objective should head the government’s priority list.

The text of the interview follows:

Al-Monitor:  Do you think that the International Conference in Cairo could signal the emergence of a new regional order?

Arens:  This conference could have had a lot more significance, if we had eliminated Hamas. I think that during the Protective Edge campaign, we squandered our opportunity to defeat Hamas so that it would not be able to fight us anymore. At this conference, they are raising billions of dollars that will, unfortunately, reach Hamas’ hands. The meaning is simple: Hamas will rearm itself with rockets. Who will inspect to make sure that this doesn’t happen? No one is willing to face off against the Hamas people. Is there a UN force willing to do it? I believe that they are aware of the problem, but they assume that President Mahmoud Abbas’ people will oversee what enters into Gaza. And that, of course, is not enough.

Al-Monitor:  You feel that the Protective Edge campaign was a lost opportunity for Israel, even though the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] eliminated the assault tunnels and severely hit Hamas, without conquering Gaza?

Arens:  First of all, this war was too long. We are not built for wars of 50 days. We need to finish them quickly, maximum a week of fighting. After all, Israel holds the advantage over Hamas in all spheres.

Concentrating on the tunnels was, in my opinion, incorrect because this is a local problem. We should have entered Gaza, operated quickly and powerfully, to beat Hamas and prevent it from being able to wage another war. The rockets, not the tunnels, are our major problem. Rockets can paralyze the entire country, including the Ben Gurion Airport, and that’s a serious problem.

We have to look at the threat as a whole. Hezbollah in the north is equipped with more than 100,000 rockets. Therefore it was important to finish off the problem with Hamas, because Hezbollah in the north has not yet had the last word.

At the end of the day, what did we receive? Hamas will be reconstructed, and then there will be another round, and again the Tel Avivans will enter their shelters. The next round is around the corner.

Al-Monitor:  In your opinion, Hamas was not deterred?

Arens:  No, because you cannot deter terrorism. You can deter a country or a dictator. We deterred [Syrian Presidents Hafez and Bashar al-] Assad, both the father and the son, because their regime could have fallen as a result of a military action of ours. They have not attacked us since the 1973 Yom Kippur War, even though we didn’t sign an agreement with them.

But you can’t deter a terrorist who comes against you. He comes to blow you up. Also, you can’t deter a terror organization; these organizations are fanatics and think very far ahead, they are sure they will win at the end, even if it takes 100 or 200 years. Hamas’ goal is not a Palestinian state, but the elimination of the State of Israel. The same is true for Hezbollah. There were those who thought and said that what Hezbollah wanted was that we should get out of Lebanon and then it would turn into a political party. So we left Lebanon. Still, the next round in Lebanon is only a matter of time, unless there is a revolution in Lebanon or other radical change.

Al-Monitor:  Don’t you see new opportunities in the region?

Arens:  Meanwhile, things are only getting worse. What happened in Egypt? [Egyptian President Abdel Fattah] al-Sisi is a dictator like [former President Hosni] Mubarak. Maybe he is willing to use even more violence than Mubarak. He hates the Muslim Brotherhood and therefore also Hamas, because he views them as allies. So suddenly he’s our ally. I am sure that he wanted us to eliminate Hamas, I have no doubt about that.

Or Saudi Arabia. They also hate Hamas and they hate Iran, they would want us to eliminate nuclear [weapons] in Iran. We haven’t done it yet so they are disappointed. But these are only temporary interests, broken reeds, not a firm foundation we can build on.

What the Arab world lacks is stable democratic institutions such as courts, parliaments, elections and regime changes. It takes a long time to build stable democratic institutions. The Americans didn’t understand this; they thought they’d come to Iraq and everyone would be happy that there was democracy. But there were no institutions there through which a democracy could be built. From this aspect, the Arab world is at the stage the Western world was at 500 years ago — religious states. That constitutes a danger as far as we are concerned.

Al-Monitor:  So you think that we should hunker down ourselves?

Arens:  We need to defend ourselves. Luckily we are strong, both economically and militarily.

Al-Monitor:  To what extent should Israel be worried about the ongoing, bitter conflict between Netanyahu and President Barack Obama?

Arens:  It is nothing. I am amazed that people don’t know how to read the political map in the United States. [The late Prime Ministers Menachem] Begin and [Yitzhak] Rabin also did not understand the United States. They thought that there is only one person, one hub of power in the United States and that is the president. In other words, if you’ve closed a deal with the president then everything’s OK, and if not, then it’s not OK. Menachem Begin once said to [former President Jimmy] Carter in his time — and Carter was not a great president, and not a great friend, either — “Except for [revisionist Zionist leader Ze’ev] Jabotinsky, I have never met as great a man as you.” …

Anyone familiar with the United States knows that there are two houses of Congress there, and Congress can stop the president. People like [Foreign Minister Avigdor] Liberman, who want an American-type presidential regime in Israel, don’t know what they are talking about. Look at Bibi [Netanyahu]; despite all his political problems he still does what he wants to do. Obama can’t do what he wants to do. So the United States is the White House, but it is also two houses of Congress, the media, the public and Jewish influence. Therefore, all in all, the relationship is very stable.

Al Monitor:  When the White House says that construction in the territories poisons the atmosphere, doesn’t that bother you?

Arens:  So Obama says that, and Congress tells him to stop saying that. In fact, a great change for the good took place in recent years. In the past, Israel’s friends in Congress were Democrats, while today the support in Congress is also from Republicans.

Al-Monitor:  Don’t you think that construction in the settlements is a provocation?

Arens:  I am sure that Bibi does not deliberately instigate provocations. The last provocation was done to him by [Israeli leftist NGO] Peace Now. In my opinion, the main problem is the Israeli Arabs. If we don’t manage to integrate them, then there will be negative consequences.

Al-Monitor:  This is related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; Israeli Arabs identify with the Palestinians.

Arens:  There is no connection between the Palestinian problem and Israeli Arabs. Go into Israeli pharmacies, many of the pharmacists are young Arab males and females who are integrated into the Israeli economy. Arab Knesset members think about elections so they stir up provocations. Meanwhile there is no Arab party here that speaks in favor of integration, but we see a phenomenon: the National Service for Arabs, which most Knesset members oppose, attracts more and more Arab youths every year. I think that the time has come for the emergence of an Arab party that does not hate the State of Israel. There are many Arabs, predominantly among the youth, who see the good in Israel, the opportunities here, the law and order we have here, in contrast with Syria, for example.

Although no Arab would want to hear it, the Jewish settling, building and developing here in Israel is the best thing that ever happened to the Arabs. Otherwise, their lives would be like those of the Arabs in Syria or Iraq.

They won’t admit it; even those who have a positive approach will say it’s not enough and there is still discrimination. But there is progress and, in my opinion, this should be the first issue on the government’s agenda. After he was re-elected last time, I said to Bibi, “Go to Nazareth, talk with the Arabs, they are your citizens.” But that doesn’t fit with him, it doesn’t speak to him, and that’s a shame.