Moscow, under fire for Hitler comments, says Israel backing ‘neo-Nazis’ in Ukraine

50 Comments / 120 Comments

1. I cannot imagine that Lavrov is that dumb, after all he is their top diplomat.

   I am wondering whether he provoked this whole row on purpose before the key commemoration dates (including the 9th of May in Russia which is also celebrated in Israel), in order to stop any cooperation with Israel that Russia still has (or does this hypothesis sound too paranoid?).

2. @reader It’s not a pdf but a web page. Shouldn’t be fuzzy. It’s your printer. Just read it. Lenin himself was not an antisemite within the party, anyway, but this is the country you laud. Herzl was the founder of the modern movement but the mass base was in Russia.

3. He was a Jewish antisemite who wrote a letter to the czar.

   I tried printing this letter, and I couldn’t read one word of it (it is too fuzzy), and I find it hard to believe that one letter from a Jew would cause the ruler of a huge country to come up with a set of anti-Jewish edicts.

4. @Sebastien Zorn

   It was the vicious treatment at the hands of Russia that led to the birth of modern Zionism as a mass movement.

   Well, you are forgetting the Dreifus affair in France in the 1890s which woke up Herzl, and the Hep-Hep Riots in Germany (or, rather, German-speaking territories) in 1819, and the fact that the tsars were not even Russian but, technically, belonged to the British royal family.

   Also, Russia did have the Pale of Settlement but it didn’t have the European-style ghettos, crusades, and inquisitions.

   I am not trying to minimize the negatives of the Jewish life in Russia but we shouldn’t forget the rest of the world, either, which will take too long to write about in detail.

   Jews owed ZERO to Russia.

   I wouldn’t go that far.

   After all, the USSR was the only country who actually fought to defeat the Nazi Germany, granted, they didn’t do it because they wanted to save the Jews but think what might have happened if the Soviet Union was defeated by the Germans.

   Anyway, if they were like the Germans, what would prevent the Soviets from starting the Final Solution of their own during the war?

   Lavrov said the worst antisemites have been Jews. I missed that. The worst, he said. He’s Armenian. That intensifies his antisemitism. Every Armenian I ever met, minimized the Holocaust.

   The Armenians had their own traitors during the Armenian genocide by the Turks and Kurds, I think, Armenians lost ~50% of their population then.

   In fact, they set up a special organization after the genocide which killed 800 of the Armenian traitors, as I recall.

   An interesting fact – at the time of the Armenian genocide, the German science considered Armenians to be the closest relatives of the Jews.

5. How Lenin’s Great-Grandfather, a Convert, Informed on the Jews

   https://blog.nli.org.il/en/lenins-great-grandfather/

   “Unlike other letters from informants in the Third Section files, Blank’s does not inform on a particular person or on members or leaders of a particular community, but on the Jews of Russia in general, and his missive had consequences for Russian Jewry for years to come. ”

   He was a Jewish antisemite who wrote a letter to the czar.

6. From 1827 to 1917, Jews between the ages of 12 and 25 were drafted into the Russian army for 25 years. If they had children, they became the “patrimony” of the army and sent to special military schools.
   Jews were 4 percent of the country but 5 percent of the army by 1874.
   https://yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/military_service_in_russia

7. et al

   Arafat’s KGB connections https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/yasser-arafat-s-kgb-connections

   Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ‘was KGB agent’
   Published8 September 2016
   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37305953

8. @Reader @Felix et al https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union

9. @Reader @Felix et al

   In 1951–1953, a group of predominantly Jewish doctors from Moscow were accused of a conspiracy to assassinate Soviet leaders.[2] This was later accompanied by publications of antisemitic character in the media, which talked about the threats of Zionism and condemned people with Jewish surnames. Following this, many doctors, both Jews and non-Jews, were dismissed from their jobs, arrested, and tortured to produce admissions. A few weeks after the death of Stalin, the new Soviet leadership said there was a lack of evidence regarding the doctors’ plot and the case was dropped. Soon after, it was declared that the case had been a fabrication.

   The Doctors Plot
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot#:~:text=In%201951%E2%80%931953%2C%20a%20group,condemned%20people%20with%20Jewish%20surnames.

   Arafat’s KGB connections https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/yasser-arafat-s-kgb-connections

   Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ‘was KGB agent’
   Published8 September 2016
   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37305953

10. @Reader @Felix et al Do we all know of the fate of the JAC?
    https://yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/jewish_anti-fascist_committee

11. Sebastien: “It was the vicious treatment at the hands of Russia that led to the birth of modern Zionism as a mass movement. ” The Russian dog has returned to its vomit.

12. @Felix @Reader this has nothing to do with WWII despite some of the symbolism and Russia persecuted Jews, too, most of the time. It was the Russian empire and later the Soviet Union from which most Jews had to flee to America and later Israel, mostly. Only Stalin’s timely death prevented his plan to internally deport the entire Jewish population to Siberia or the equivalent. Jews owed ZERO to Russia despite that most of those who escaped the German occupied pale of settlement to Russia or were deported there, were the ones to survive, albeit under the harshest of conditions and as second class citizens.

    It was the vicious treatment at the hands of Russia that led to the birth of modern Zionism as a mass movement.

    In the late 40s and early 50s,, Jewish Communists were purged and killed. From the 60s to the end of the regimes, Jews were abused second class citizens denied opportunities, jailed for showing an interest in their heritage must less applying to go to Israel.

    Lavrov said the worst antisemites have been Jews. I missed that. The worst, he said. He’s Armenian. That intensifies his antisemitism. Every Armenian I ever met, minimized the Holocaust.

    1

13. But it would have been wise to specify also the government of Ukraine in case someone may think I was talking about the government
    of Ballyjamesduff of O’Reilly fame

14. Reader

    I agree. It is their antecedents in 1941 to 1945 and even into the 1950s

15. @FelixQuigley

    And why then does Israel support the Government which in 1941 brought Jews to the Ravine of Babi Yar

    At the time the occupied part Ukraine didn’t have a government, it was completely under German control, however the local Ukrainian police created by the occupiers did participate in the atrocities.

    So Israel why?

    Israel seems to be under the American Mandate these days; besides many Jews (like almost everybody else) accept the narrative that the Russian invasion was completely unprovoked and is causing the innocent Ukrainians to suffer and die, etc.

    I am surprised that Lavrov chose this kind of response to Israel instead of the usual diplomatic channels.

    I think it is extremely unprofessional.

    1

16. Zelensky as Jew and President of Ukraine is BEING USED CONSCIOUSLY to stop people UNDERSTANDING how the roots of this present situation in Ukraine go back to the Holocaust.

    And Lapid, Bennett and Israel do that.

    This issue is centred in the Holocaust and in the Hitler Fascist drive against Communism, which Hitler hated, and against Russia, which Hitler hated.

    There were all of these hatreds.

    Israel should cut all support to Zelensky. Israel should be in total support of Russia, of its military operation against Fascists and be sending arms and aid to Russia Donbas and other such liberated peoples which includes Crimea too

    My simple question is why is Israel the state of the Jews not defending the people and soldiers who liberated Auschwitz?

    And why then does Israel support the Government which in 1941 brought Jews to the Ravine of Babi Yar, mocked them on the way, stripped them naked, made them lie in rows, shot them in the back of the head, stole their clothes and lived in their houses which they own to this day.

    So Israel why?

    1

17. Both sides want to manipulate and use us for ends not our own.

18. @Felix Lavrov is trying to explain how Nazis could be led by a Jew but he’s doing it in such a way that his antisemitism is obvious. I’ve been approached so many times by gentile antisemites who tried to convince me that my own people were my enemies by citing tragedies of Jews against other Jews such as Rudolf Kastner or the alleged adopting off or injecting experimental proteins into Mizrahi babies in the early 50s. Two examples.

19. Israel does not give aid to the Azov or Svoboda brigades or any military aid to Ukraine which has been requesting Iron Dome. That’s a smear. Lavrov is demonizing Israel. Israel is giving humanitarian and medical aid and individual Israelis have volunteered to fight for Ukraine against the Russian invasion. They are not contributing to the shelling of Donbass and despite using them, the Ukrainian government and army does not consist of fascists. The US and EU nations are giving military aid to Ukraine but are not being smeared like this. This is antisemitic. Screw Lavrov. I read an article in a Russian paper defending the Black Hundreds and blaming it on the Jews.

20. Sebastien

    So read the article above and explain what he’s doing

    Lapid:
    “In an interview with Kan public radio on Tuesday morning, Lapid said that Russia’s envoy had been subjected to a “tough conversation” after being summoned to the Foreign Ministry on Monday, “since it is unforgivable, unforgivable to blame Jews for their own Holocaust.

    “Hitler was not Jewish and Jews did not murder my grandfather in Mauthausen,” he said. “The Nazis did it, and all of these comparisons to the Nazis are unforgivable and infuriating.”

    Lapid added that Russia “needs to apologize to the Jews, to the memory of those who were killed.” He suggested that Lavrov “read a history book” instead of spreading false “antisemitic rumors.” ”

    I can spot lies in words above of Lapid

21. Miko Peled is a prominent Jewish Israeli antisemite. I learned about him when an antisemitic bartender in New York began quoting him as an authority on Israeli “war crimes.” His father was a general, so he must know, right? I was told. His own niece was murdered by these terrorists and his response was to become one of the their apologists..

22. On Wednesday, May 4th, the Students for Justice in Palestine Rutgers-Newark will host an event featuring Norman Finkelstein, best known for calling Holocaust deniers “very good historians,” writing a book called “The Holocaust Industry,” and even justifying Hezbollah terrorism. Among the apparent co-sponsors of the event, featured on top of the Instagram flyer promoting the event, was a very surprising logo: UNICEF USA.

    https://www.camera.org/article/sjp-at-rutgers-newark-use-without-permission-unicef-usa-logo-to-promote-an-apologist-for-terrorism-and-holocaust-denial/

23. Jews Who Hate Israel Are Teaching Your Children About the Jewish State

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/05/03/jews-who-hate-israel-are-teaching-your-children-about-the-jewish-state/as

24. Reader Sebastien and others

    Sergei Lavrov a very longstanding diplomat and in charge of foreign affairs is very afflicted by the massive things that are happening to his country.

    Does he have a right to be?

25. Reader I understand the reaction to Lavrov mentioning Hitler having a Jewish ancestor. Of course.

    But the whole speech of about two minutes was the opposite of Antisemitism

    Do you agree?

26. @Reader They’re not rounding up Jews, are they? For the time being, anyway, their antisemitism is irrelevant. It would be more useful to refer to them as fascists which is how the Soviets called them, anyway. The term, “Nazi” has been so overused it almost doesn’t mean anything anymore.

    That being said, both Ukraine and Russia side with Israel’s enemies so let them kill each other. Maybe it’s God’s will.
    “Those who curse Israel will be cursed and those who bless Israel will be blessed.”

    The only real evidence that there is a God is the fact that history bears this truth out, though not necessarily in as timely a way as we might like.

27. @Sebastian Zorn

    “to table their antisemitism”

    I understood it to mean that they suspended or put their antisemitism on the back burner to prioritize something else.

    What I was trying to point out is that they really couldn’t do that (being what they are), instead, the info about their antisemitism is being suppressed by the media to play up Zelensky’s role and to whitewash the Nazis.

    As soon as I posted it, I thought it was a minor difference, besides, we’ll never know what really went on there.

28. @Reader I meant it in the American sense so we are saying the same thing. I didn’t know it’s used differently elsewhere.

    In the United States, to “table” usually means to postpone or suspend consideration of a pending motion. In the rest of the English-speaking world, to “table” means to begin consideration (or reconsideration) of a proposal.

    Apparently, we are not always speaking the same English. Something to bear in mind.

29. “…Hitler was born to a practicing Catholic mother, Klara Hitler, and was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church; his father was a free-thinker and skeptical of the Catholic Church.[8][9] In 1904, he was confirmed at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Linz, Austria, where the family lived.[10] According to John Willard Toland, witnesses indicate that Hitler’s confirmation sponsor had to “drag the words out of him … almost as though the whole confirmation was repugnant to him”.[11] Rissmann notes that, according to several witnesses who lived with Hitler in a men’s home in Vienna, he never again attended Mass or received the sacraments after leaving home at 18 years old.[12] Krieger claims Hitler abandoned the Catholic Church[13] while Hitler’s last secretary asserted that he was not a member of any church.[14] Otto Strasser stated “Hitler is an atheist”.[15]

    In a speech in the early years of his rule, Hitler declared himself “Not a Catholic, but a German Christian”.[16][17][18][19][20] The German Christians were a Protestant group that supported Nazi Ideology.[21] Hitler and the Nazi party also promoted “nondenominational”[22] Positive Christianity,[23] a movement which rejected most traditional Christian doctrines such as the divinity of Jesus, as well as Jewish elements such as the Old Testament.[24][25] In one widely quoted remark, he described Jesus as an “Aryan fighter” who struggled against “the power and pretensions of the corrupt Pharisees”[26] and Jewish materialism.[27] Hitler demonstrated preference for Protestantism[28] and Lutheranism[29] as he stated “Through me the Evangelical Protestant Church could become the established church, as in England”[30] and “The great reformer”[31] “Luther has the merit of rising against the Pope and the Catholic Church.”[32]…”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

30. Felix: I don’t believe you are authorized to judge who is Jewish and who is not Jewish.

    2

31. Felix: Your interest does not interest me.

    1

32. @Tzvi-Gad

    “Probably and highly likely” is not proof, it is the same amtisemitic thought of “if we like them, they are one of us, if we don’t, they must be Jewish or they must have Jewish ancestors”.

    Those Russians who admire Stalin say that even though he was from Georgia (Gruziya) he was a real Russian, and those who think he was a criminal call him a “mountain Jew” (a Jew from Caucasus).

    I’ve seen some American comments where they “prove” Stalin’s Jewishness by stating that his real name was Jugashvili (Ju- gashvili – wink-wink).

    Hitler’s father got Adolf’s mother pregnant while being married to another woman, and in that area of Austria being born illegitimate wasn’t uncommon.

    Lenin’s ancestry was thoroughly checked by someone who hated him and who really wanted to prove that Lenin was of Jewish ancestry, and he couldn’t do it.

    1

33. @Tzi-Gad re: Hitler it’s nonsense. See parentage of biological father under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hitler

    Re: Lenin “Miriam Froimovich, Moshko’s wife and Lenin’s (paternal) great-grandmother, was a native of Starokonstantinov, born about 1763. She also came from an Ashkenazic Jewish family. Her last name is an adaptation of her patronymics, as her father’s first name, Froim, Yiddish for Efraim.”

    Blank family – Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Blank_family

    FYI: Jewish law says a Jew is the child of a Jewish mother or a convert. Reform Judaism says paternal descent can be recognized if the child is raised as a Jew, identifies as a Jew and is active in the Jewish community.

    Nobody says somebody with a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent is a Jew and the only thing that is known about Hitler’s paternal grandfather is that nobody knows who he was.

    That being said, calling HItler a Jew is an antisemitic trope. especially popular among the fakestinian Arabs, who say Hitler was a Jew in English and Hitler is their guy in Arabic.

    1

34. The evidence that Hitler probably had a Jewish father was presented to me b an American professor of economic history in 1994 at Sydney University.

    It is highly likely that Lenin also had Jewish ancestors.

    However, Jewish blood is red like every other person.

    What matters in a person is their deeds…if they live according to Torah.

    Zelensky is therefore not Jewish, so enough of that.

    The fact is that there is a significant pro-Nazi movement in Western Ukraine which existed since before 1939.

    This movement influenced the Ukrainian Rada since 1993 to be increasingly anti-Russian despite the high number of ethnic Russians living in the modern, Khruschev-made Ukraine.

    The ethnicity split shows very clearly in party split in 1998 with Western Ukraine, and in 2004 presidential elections in Eastern Ukraine. the war that came in 2014 should not have been a surprise to anyone but of course in the USA they missed Pearl Harbor after the Japanese invasion of China, and in Europe Hitler ‘surprised’ with invading France after talking about it for a decade.

    Putin warned about NATO expansion in 2006 after Georgia but of course Obama Administration thought it was a ‘joke’. But it seems Putin does not have a sense of humour when the security of Russia is perceived as threatened.

    Did Ukraine threaten Russia? It did if Russia thought so. Being a good neighbour requires neighbour awareness, and if the neighbour is a major strategic power with significant armed forces, one should listen.

    Zelensky, an actor by profession, really should have known how to listen. He didn’t.

    1

    4

35. @FelixQuigley

    Lavrov’s saying that “Hitler had Jewish blood” is antisemitic, especially because Lavrov stated that he could have been mistaken about it – then why say it if you are not sure and knowing the reaction it is going to cause?

    Besides, Lavrov is a skilled diplomat (unlike Lapid), so what he said was likely well thought out.

    You just don’t feel it the same way about it as Jews do – as a painful pin prick.

    Hitler was paranoid about his origins because he was an illegitimate child plus he was probably mentally disturbed starting in childhood.

    BTW, de Gobineau (the Frenchman who wrote An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races and developed the theory of the Aryan Master Race) was paranoid about the possibility of having black ancestors on his mother’s side because his mother’s French family came from Haiti.

    2

36. Everyone should read this article:

    There’s no ban on Estonia giving Israeli weapons to Ukraine – Estonian FM
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-705695

    Consider the significance of this coordination between Israel and Estonia in light of Russian Ambassador Victorov’s statement that

    if Israel supplies Ukraine with military equipment, Moscow “will respond accordingly.”

    The US and the west are so used to posturing with Red Lines that are seldom held fast that they accept the silly notion that Russia holds a similar position of weakness regarding such things, which is why the West was so flabbergasted by Russia’s invasion after a very clear ultimatum by Russia in the months prior to the invasion.

    If Israel is allowing Estonian bought arms to be freely donated to kill Russian soldiers in the Borderland state of Ukraine, Putin will respond with an eye to punish Israel in a way that will likely be quite penalizing, and I think that could be greater than simply ending the agreement over Israel’s freedom to conduct her Syrian attacks.

    Were I the Russian premiere, I would interpret this as a complete betrayal of the role of an impartial peace broker previously claimed by Israel, and act accordingly.

    Victorov’s words should be read carefully and accepted as being quite sincere.

    1

37. @Sebastien
    Very nice synopsis.

    1

38. @Felix Is it good for the Jews?

    1

39. LAVROV REMARKS ON HOLOCAUST HELPFUL NOT HARMFUL

    Ukrainian Government use fake Jew Zelensky to obscure THEIR collaboration with Nazis in Holocaust

    SEE

    https://youtu.be/zPXc–DwEdo

    1

    1

40. @Sebastien Zorn

    they have obviously tabled their antisemitism in favor of their anti-Russian campaign

    I have a feeling that it’s not that they tabled it but that the information about their antisemitism is conveniently de-emphasized or hidden for the time being.

41. I should ask you to USE THE CONTEXT please

    With Russia

    1

42. @Felix

    Sebastien you seem unable to empathize

    With whom?

43. My notes are a little sketchy please read as such

    Yes all points taken but I watched Lavrov carefully and he was anything but hostile to Jews

    Not definitely not Antisemitism at all.

    Absolutely not even if it is a meme re his Hitler remark.

    For me it tells more about Lapid.

    This is what Sebastien omits..Direct connection Collaborators like Bandera and PRESENT UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT. Of course they’re using Zelensky as Jew to hide THEIR collaboration. To hide the past. To obscure the reality of the present.

    (See Wendy Lower The Ravine)

    Sebastien you seem unable to empathize

    Is this a Russian thing on your part.

    Zelensky has done great damage posing as a Jew. Jews have RESPONSIBILITY to speak out

44. @Felix While the Azov and Svoboda brigades are neo-nazi, they have obviously tabled their antisemitism in favor of their anti-Russian campaign for the time being and could care less if Zelensky is Jewish as long as he prosecutes this war. Zelensky’s Jewish background is incidental to him except to the extent he can use it to guilt trip Israel and foreign Jews in to giving assistance in a war that really has nothing to do with them or even Ukrainian Jews as Jews. A negotiated peace that allows Donbass self-determination and disarms the neo-nazis would be best for the Jews and all orher residents of the area. In the mean time, war is dunkel.

    2

45. Israel should have remained neutral.

    Lapid was messing things up from the beginning.

    Lavrov is wrong about Hitler having “Jewish blood” (this is a favorite antisemithic myth) but, technically, right about other things.

    And they are right about Zelensky who, in my opinion, should have resigned when this whole thing started.

    Jews in high places don’t care about how their behavior affects the rest of us.

    1

46. It is a disgraceful article by this Ami Spiro. I especially note her quoting selectively and ignoring context. Why is she doing this? What lies behind?

47. Sebastien

    It has no relevance to Zelensky or this conflict

    I thought his talk was all about Zelensky. What do you mean?

    This has the potential of teaching us a great deal about Jewish leaders of Israel

48. Honeybee please stop I’m not interested

    Sebastien will well explain to you what he was worried about re Zelensky. Better than I can actually.

49. Felix: Now what was that you said about Jew should support Putin and Russian? Who are the Nazis now?

50. It has no relevance to Zelensky or this conflict, but he’s not wrong about the Judenrat.

    in plural, Judenraete), Jewish councils set up within the Jewish communities of Nazi-occupied Europe on German orders. The Judenraete were given the responsibility to implement the Nazis’ policies regarding the Jews. These Jewish councils often performed a balancing act: on one hand, they felt a responsibility to help their fellow Jews as much as possible, on the other, they were supposed to carry out the orders of the Nazi authorities – often at the expense of their fellow Jews. The role played by the Judenraete is one of the most controversial aspects of the Holocaust period…

    https://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206389.pdf

    1