Mofaz: Give the Palestinians 100% of Yesha

By Gabe Kahn, INN

Opposition leader Shaul Mofaz (Kadima) told the The New York Times that he would “respond to 100% of the territorial demands of the Palestinians” if elected Prime Minister.

“I intend to replace Netanyahu,” Mr. Mofaz, 63, said. “I will not join his government.”

Mofaz said that he believed Israel should keep the main settlement blocs, but that he would give the Palestinian Authority as much land from sovereign Israeli ground as he kept from Judea and Samaria.

He added that he believes it is possible to reach an agreement on the borders and security within one year.

When asked about Israeli residents of Judea and Samaria living in communities he would cede to the Palestinian Authority, Mofaz said, “If they’re given the right incentives they will leave their homes. Those who do not, we would have to evacuate [them].”

“This is a wildly radical program that undermines our security and will lead the State of Israel into one hundred years of conflict rather than one hundred years of peace,” Ariel countered. “Mofaz should find another way of trying to achieve popularity for his [declining] party without undermining Israel’s security.”

Yesha Council Chairman Danny Dayan said, “A man who will give the Palestinians 100% of what they demand in a territorial power play and evict tens of thousands of Israelis is unfit to be prime minister of Israel.”

“But do not worry,” Dayan said. “Kadima will not be chosen to lead the nation again.”

Kadima is currently Israel’s largest party with 28 Knesset mandates. However, recent polls indicate Kadima would only win 12-15 seats if elections were held today. It may be an effort to gain Kadima voters from other left of center parties that is causing Mofaz to voice extremist views, sources have said. He has also made anti hareidi remarks.,

Likud, which has 27 Knesset mandates at present, is currently polling at 32 seats. Other rightist parties are also polling beyond their present numbers.

April 9, 2012 | 109 Comments »

Leave a Reply

50 Comments / 109 Comments

  1. @ yamit82:
    We already own Jerusalem. What else you got?

    Do you? The Arabs are in the Silwan district and all over East Jerusalem.

    Israel constantly has to expand the borders of Jerusalem to maintain a Jewish majority.
    The Arabs multiply that fast. At some point, Jerusalem will contain the whole state
    of Israel and then what will you do?

    If you bought the Palestinians out, you really would own Jerusalem.

    But you prefer prideful vengence.

  2. @ yamit82:

    “O daughter of Babylon that art to be destroyed; Happy shall he be that repayeth thee as thou hast done to us. Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock” (Psalm 137).

    That is a prophecy of what the [terrible] attitude of the conquerors of Babylon would be, NOT a commendation of their child killing viciousness.

    If you are that vengeful, then peace is not possible.

    If two vengeful tribes are determined to fight because of vengence, then I suppose war is inevitable.

    But when your cousin dies, or your brother, or your sister, please do not come crying to me.

    I suggest you buy the Arabs out and send them to South America. But you prefer vengence.

  3. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Calls for blood vengence will only make things worse, not better.

    Forget VENGENCE! Ownership of Jerusalem is enough of a victory.

    We already own Jerusalem. What else you got?

    Re: Vengence? We are Jews not christians.

    Our rabbis say: “Yes, when vengeance is needed, it is a great thing” (Brachot, 3a).

    “it is only vengeance that proves that there is indeed a G-d in the world, that there is good and evil and punishment for that evil. When the wicked kill and injustice reigns, surely the wicked cry out: “There is no G-d, for if their was He would punish me.” And the victim in his agony, agrees. When there is no vengeance and punishment and the wicked reign, G-d is pushed from his throne; it is the greatest Hillul Hashem – desecration to G-d’s Name, it is “proof” that there is no G-d.”

    “O daughter of Babylon that art to be destroyed; Happy shall he be that repayeth thee as thou hast done to us. Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock” (Psalm 137).

    The Jews of Ashkenaz created a prayer of vengeance in memory of the Jews massacred during the Crusades, a prayer that we read each Sabbath and that says:
    “May He avenge the blood of His servants which has been shed, as it is written in the Torah of Moses, the man of G-d: ‘O nations, make His people joyful! He avenges the blood of His servants, renders retribution to His foes and atones for His land and His people.’ And in the holy writings it says: ‘Why should the nations say, ‘where is their G-d?’

    The Jewish holiday of Passover is the ultimate holiday and expression of vengeance.

  4. @ Linda Rivera:

    On the side of global jihad and totalitarian, colonizing Islam, Mofaz is a TRAITOR to Israel and the entire Free World. What a wicked man.

    Mr. Mofaz is ignorant. So are you!

    Calls for blood vengence will only make things worse, not better.

    Buy the West Bank Arabs out.

    Half of them are young and landless.

    Offer them real money, NOT chump change, to move to South America.

    When the young leave, the West Bank will become Jewish over time.

    The Arabs are as stubborn as you. They fought the Crusaders for centuries even after initial defeats. Who won in the end?!

    If you want to get into a battle with determined jihadis who are NOT afraid to die, then you will lose. The secular will leave. They don’t need the trouble. Half the Orthodox are anti-Zionist Haredim.

    If you are going to beat the Arab, you will have to outwit them, let them think they are winning.

    You do this by buying them out.

    Forget VENGENCE! Ownership of Jerusalem is enough of a victory.

  5. Mr. Mofaz…
    Not only you are endangering the mere existance of the state of Israel You will certainly bring about a CIVIL war.

    9 And the LORD said unto Cain: ‘Where is Abel thy brother?’ And he said: ‘I know not; am I my brother’s keeper?’
    And He said: ‘What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto Me from the ground.
    And now cursed art thou from the ground, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand.

    Mr. Cain Mofaz : A fugitive and a wanderer shalt thou be in the earth.

    Lederaon Olam Tizacher!

    Ira.

  6. On the side of global jihad and totalitarian, colonizing Islam, Mofaz is a TRAITOR to Israel and the entire Free World. What a wicked man.

  7. “respond to 100% of the territorial demands of the Palestinians”.
    Mr. Mofaz…
    Hammas IS/ARE the palestinians.
    Respond 100% as you said you will, and you will be evicted too, if not exterminated…
    READ this carefuly. This is rule number six of the hammas faith:>>>

    6. Palestine is a holy Islamic entity until the end of time. Therefore, it is non-negotiable and no one can give up any part of it.

    Did you fully understand this IDIOT!!!

  8. @ Laura:

    Why allow this punk, curious, to monopolize the conversation here?

    Have I insulted you?

    You misinterpreted another posted of mine, when I was being sarcastic about Obama. You
    took the comment literally.

    Do I accuse you of autism? NO!

    I ask real questions.

    1) Since the Arab nations will not take in the Palestinians, the Palestinians will have to be
    re-located outside the Mideast.

    2) The Saudis should pay for this … BUT THEY WON’T. They will try to stop
    the re-location. This is not right, but it is what it is.

    3) So the West will have to pay.

    4) But the West is broke. America, Europe are broke.

    5) Israel is running a trade surplus. Maybe the worldwide Jewish community
    should pool resources to pay for this. After all, Israel would be the chief
    beneficiary.

    6) This is not fair NOR just to uncompensated Sephardim, but the alternative is major war.

    7) Would you really prefer a never ending war?

    Because I do not spout the standard, “kill all the Palestinians” attitude does not
    make me a punk.

    Or is only one opinion allowed on this board?

  9. Re: Sally Mofats wanting to give up 100 percent of Judea-Samaria to his friends…

    Better yet, this pathetic schmuck should take himself and his girlfriend, the “Valerie Plame of Israel”, that glorified secretary and hurveh Tzippity Doo-Dah Lifney back home to Iran and offer his services to his childhood friends, the child-molesters, girl rapists, and Holocaust Deniers of the Ahmadinejedad regime and their Mullah ideologues.

    That is where this SCHMUCK and his fellow Kadima buddies belong…Not in Israel. Remember – they’re the same bastards who promised us Goldwasser and Regev alive or Nasrallah dead. Well, Nasrallah has been alive, kickin’ and runs Lebanon – and this schmuck still wants to sell Jewish lives out.

    To Iran, he goes. The sooner the better.

  10. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Yamit, you are so hateful that I have to view your opinions with suspicion.

    Some of Yamit’s opinion seem extreme but any one who knows from first experience how the Arabs live, knows more things about the Middle East than all the armchair strategists in the world put together. The truth is the Arabs don’t want a state, they want to destroy Israel. That is why the conflict will go on for a long time. Some conflicts by definition have no real solution unless one side vanquishes the other side completely. It took Rome a long time to vanquish Carthage and become the master of the world. I have no doubt that one day the Palestinian Arabs will be as significant to future historical discussions as the Carthaginians are today. That is to say not at all.

  11. CuriousAmerican Said:

    And you would still be fighting low level wars against the Palestinians.

    Israel hasn’t fought such a low level war with the Arabs since the Second Intifada. The local Arabs may hate Israel but they have no intention of dying for their stupid and corrupt leaders.

    Ah! But if Israel genocided all those Palestinians, Israel could not go to Germany or Europe and ask for reparations since the West would say, “Who are you now, Israel, to criticize us when you are no better?”

    You don’t see the West lift a finger on Syria. They don’t really care about Arabs. They are afraid of the Jews. The Palestinian Arab issue is merely an excuse for the West to indulge in all the contempt it has shown to Jews over the centuries, now expressed towards the Jewish State by generously funding its enemies. The West would not be sending a cent to the Palestinian Arabs if their adversary wasn’t Israel. Simple and straight.

    I see contempt for Arabs. They are not out pets.

    All I see is Western contempt for the Jews. They’re not working for another failed Arab State in Israel’s heart because they want peace and brotherhood between Jews and Arabs. We know the West hates the Arabs as much as it hates the Jews. The only question left is who goes under first.

  12. Ted Belman Said:

    Israel would do its part in coming up with the Money. All it takes is for the West to do its part and support the Plan.

    Let the West and the Arabs pay. This is not Israel’s problem to solve. They love the Palestinian Arabs so much, let them take care of them. Israel should stay out of it.

  13. @ CuriousAmerican:

    “In a way, I feel sorry for the Palestinians. Their predicament is not of their own making.”

    Much of it most certainly IS of their own making.

    Their inclination to violence, even against the innocent, makes them unable to be trusted.

    Complicates things enormously.

    “Israel cannot afford to annex the area (which would require enfranchisement of the Palestinians), nor can it afford to let the Palestinian territories go.”

    Enfranchisement need not mean prompt, automatic, blanket enfranchisement.

    Every country reserves the right to protect itself.

    Those that wanted enfranchisement could be put on a “citizenship track,” as it were. It could be extended out over, say, a 12-15 year period.

    And they’d have to prove themselves. They’d be under a good bit of scrutiny for a long time.

    If they weren’t willing to go that route, but still didn’t want to emigrate, they simply wouldn’t be granted citizenship.

    “Believe it or not, they are pawns and the least guilty in this dance of death.”

    “Pawns,” yes.

    “The least guilty” — no way, no how.

  14. @ yamit82:

    Your comments smacks of typical Christian who expect the Jews to pay for the mess you helped to create, and I don’t accept your syllogism.

    C- without American pressure we would still be in Sinai and still control Y&S and Gaza.

    And you would still be fighting low level wars against the Palestinians.

    @ yamit82:

    No our problem is with the West and if you will the Christian West. Left to our own devices we could have finished the Palis problem decades ago. I don’t absolve our weak shitty leaders but they just followed 15 centuries appeasing the Christian masters and were afraid of what the Goyim will say or do.

    Ah! But if Israel genocided all those Palestinians, Israel could not go to Germany or Europe and ask for reparations since the West would say, “Who are you now, Israel, to criticize us when you are no better?”

    @ yamit82:
    The Palis and the Arabs are the Christians Pets, they are surrogates of the West and the Saudis for the destruction of the Jews and Israel.

    You should take Prozac before answering these questions. It would help your paranoia.

    The West has been generally anti-Arab since the Crusades. You seem to think the Crusades was about killing Jews. Actually, that was a sideshow at best. The Crusades was about rolling back Islam.

    France fought the Algerians. The British fought Egyptians. The Spanish fought the Moroccans. The Italians fought the Libyans.

    I see contempt for Arabs. They are not out pets.

  15. American, kindly educate me, as to who exactly will compensate the +/- 700,000 Jewish refugees from the friggin’ Arab countries?
    I will not bore you with countless stories of families rich and poor that fled and left it all behind (you realize I hope that we are talking about countless billions of stolen moneys)
    I think we both know the answer: no one! So why exactly should we care soooooo much about some musloid about to be kicked out?
    To paraphrase Rhett Buttler…”frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn!”

    Are you interested in winning a lawsuit or convincing the Arabs to leave Judea and Samaria?

    Rightly, or wrongly, inspite of the expulsions of the Sephardim, if you want the Arabs to leave Judea and Samaria, you will have to compensate them.

    I did not say this was just. But it is practical.

    Politics is the art of the possible.
    – Bismarck

  16. Whoa!
    Left the keyboard for a short while and looks like I have missed the party!
    1. Yamit, I LOVE your style and spirit (ken yirboo)
    2. American, kindly educate me, as to who exactly will compensate the +/- 700,000 Jewish refugees from the friggin’ Arab countries?
    I will not bore you with countless stories of families rich and poor that fled and left it all behind (you realize I hope that we are talking about countless billions of stolen moneys)
    I think we both know the answer: no one! So why exactly should we care soooooo much about some musloid about to be kicked out?
    To paraphrase Rhett Buttler…”frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn!”

  17. @ yamit82:

    @ CuriousAmerican:

    Jewish Billionaires? Is it their problem? They are good loyal liberal Americans. America may be bankrupt but the American elite 1% have 47% of all the wealth in America and the top 20% control over 80% of all the wealth in America. 60% of American imports from China are from American companies in China. American Companies are sitting on trillions of profits, so Tax them all and you won’t be bankrupt. Put a Robin-hood tax on all stock market transactions and you won’t be bankrupt for long.

    You are not getting it.

    Question: Who will be the chief beneficiary of moving the Arabs to South America?

    Answer: Israel and the worldwide Jewish community.

    Question: Therefore who should pay the lion’s share of the relocation costs?

    Answer: Israel and the worldwide Jewish community.

    Maybe some Christian megalwealthy like Bill Gates should contribute, but you see my point.

    You may not admit it … but you see it.

  18. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Jewish Billionaires? Is it their problem? They are good loyal liberal Americans. America may be bankrupt but the American elite 1% have 47% of all the wealth in America and the top 20% control over 80% of all the wealth in America. 60% of American imports from China are from American companies in China. American Companies are sitting on trillions of profits, so Tax them all and you won’t be bankrupt. Put a Robin-hood tax on all stock market transactions and you won’t be bankrupt for long.

  19. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Israel did do a degree of ethnic cleansing. Not all the Arabs fled voluntarily.

    Of-course there was some what you call ethnic cleansing but as you can see it was not wide spread and usually selective. After all it was war forced upon us and like in all wars some civilians pay a price, Were it up to me there would be no Arabs in our sovereign territory. The Americans put loyal Japanese citizens in concentration camps but not Italian and German citizens many who were not loyal. There are few if any Arabs on our lands who are loyal to the Jews and their state. What normal nation entertains and coddles an enemy within it’s national sovereignty and territorial control?

    Inasmuch as this is an Israeli-Arab problem, I think the Israelis should pay, not us bankrupt Americans.

    Then why have the EU and the Americans given them billions over the years.

    Why have the Americans armed and trained their army?

    Without their aid: A- many Jews would be alive today and more will not be killed tomorrow and the day after. B-Hamas would not rule in Gaza

    Your flippant attitude smacks of supremacism.

    Your syllogism

    Your comments smacks of typical Christian who expect the Jews to pay for the mess you helped to create, and I don’t accept your syllogism.

    C- without American pressure we would still be in Sinai and still control Y&S and Gaza.

    No our problem is with the West and if you will the Christian West. Left to our own devices we could have finished the Palis problem decades ago. I don’t absolve our weak shitty leaders but they just followed 15 centuries appeasing the Christian masters and were afraid of what the Goyim will say or do.

    The Palis and the Arabs are the Christians Pets, they are surrogates of the West and the Saudis for the destruction of the Jews and Israel.

    For ex: Golda Meir and Abdullah of Jordan struck a deal to divide Palestine between them. Even General Eldad admits that the Jordanian conquest of the West Bank was with Israeli agreement.

    Your source?

  20. @ yamit82:

    Send em to Mexico then they could cross the border with the Mexicans and al Qeada.

    Part of the problem here is that because you have a problem with the Palestinians you want others to clean up the mess.

    Israel did do a degree of ethnic cleansing. Not all the Arabs fled voluntarily.

    And so the Palestinians got stuck in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt where Israel expected the Arabs to clean up a mess which the Israelis themselves were partly responsible for.

    For ex: Golda Meir and Abdullah of Jordan struck a deal to divide Palestine between them. Even General Eldad admits that the Jordanian conquest of the West Bank was with Israeli agreement.

    Since part of this problem is of Israel’s creation – America had nothing to do with it – Israel should pay for the clean up. The Arabs won’t.

    So if you want the Arabs to relocate, you will have to pay.

    Your flippant attitude smacks of supremacism.

    Your syllogism

    A) Israel has a problem with Palestinians

    B) Relocate the Palestinians

    Therefore

    C) Let the Goyim pay to relocate the Palestinians, so we don’t have to

    Well that is bad math and it won’t sell.

    My idea

    A) Israel will benefit from the relocation of Arabs

    B) Therefore let Israel pay to relocate the Arabs

    is much more logical math.

  21. @ yamit82:

    Of course you can just borrow some more from those bad communists in China or print a few more dollars. You are already paying them a $billion a year.

    Inasmuch as this is an Israeli-Arab problem, I think the Israelis should pay, not us bankrupt Americans.

  22. @ yamit82:

    Cheaper to kill them then to buy them out, they are scum and vermin. The Europeans and Americans love them so they should pay. Instead of paying the kleptocracy with all those billions which wind up in Swiss accts, give each Arab a cut and a visa and most countries would accept Arabs with lots of cash in their pockets

    This is my plan. But where we disagree is who is going to pay?

    The USA and most of Europe are bankrupt. Israel has a trade surplus.

    There are a lot of Jewish Billionaires. George Soros, Steven Spielberg, etc …

  23. @ CuriousAmerican:

    We in the West are broke. So we really can’t pay.

    Of course you can just borrow some more from those bad communists in China or print a few more dollars. You are already paying them a $billion a year.

    Irony: the Capitalists borrowing from Communists

    By the way your understanding of Arab demographics is flawed. Check Israpundit archives there are many items that refute your understanding.

    Think about this we are 7 million Jews in a sea of 300 million hostiles. So local demographics just don’t compute into real fear in comparison.

  24. @ CuriousAmerican:

    In Wars people die on all sides but they also die in road accidents. At least in wars of self defense you know why and deaths have meaning.

    Gaza is really a nice place without the lice. I Spent many years in Gaza. 6 years of reserve duty in Dir al Balak and KanYunis. Great fish restaurant in Gaza city owned by Abuatzeira clan (Baba Sali). Famous Rabbinical family whose branch in Gaza were Muslim converts. They have Photos of the Rabbi on the walls of the restaurant.

  25. @ yamit82:

    Cheaper to kill them then to buy them out, they are scum and vermin. The Europeans and Americans love them so they should pay. Instead of paying the kleptocracy with all those billions which wind up in Swiss accts, give each Arab a cut and a visa and most countries would accept Arabs with lots of cash in their pockets

  26. So where would you send them?

    Why to the Palestinian State of course. Where else? You know the one just across the River where 80% of the Arabs identify as “Palestinian”. Otherwise they could go to Outer Bolivia for all I care. Just GET OUT! They are implacable and despicable enemies who’s greatest aspiration is our destruction. What is there to moralize about exactly?

  27. Let’s send them to EU and USA Detroit awaits. If 45% admit to wanting to leave there is probably much more who think the same but did not say so in any event those 45% will draw the rest in time. (Family/clan reunification)
    Win Win for Israel. Arabs in WB seeing successful implementation of Gazan immigration will follow in large numbers. Provide visas maybe some money for legal property and we solve a major problem and threat. More humanitarian then having to kill them down the road. See i’m not so bloodthirsty.

    The key is for Israel and the world wide Jewish community TO BUY THEM OUT, which is only fair, since Israel and the worldwide Jewish community will be the ones to profit by it.

    Again, South America has assimilated 7x (seven times) more Arabs already than the USA. And they Christianize Muslims. 20+ Million Arabs in South America. Go with a record of success,

    South America has assimilated over 20 Million plus Arabs since 1890.

    Save up to make your share of the contribution.

    If you are not up to spending your money, UNFORTUNATELY, you probably will pay with the blood of a relative. You are going to pay one way or the other, yamit82.

    We in the West are broke. So we really can’t pay.

    If you are dead set against buying them out, yamit82, then prepare for war which will come … ALAS.

  28. @ the phoenix:

    Findings show that the percentage of Gazans who say they seek immigration to other countries stands at 45%; in the West Bank, the percentage stands at 22%. Three months ago, these figures stood at 43% and 24% respectively.

    Let’s send them to EU and USA Detroit awaits. If 45% admit to wanting to leave there is probably much more who think the same but did not say so in any event those 45% will draw the rest in time. (Family/clan reunification)
    Win Win for Israel. Arabs in WB seeing successful implementation of Gazan immigration will follow in large numbers. Provide visas maybe some money for legal property and we solve a major problem and threat. More humanitarian then having to kill them down the road. See i’m not so bloodthirsty. 8)

  29. @ the phoenix:

    why are we wasting time? why are we splitting hairs like it really matters….
    the late (unfortunately) rabbi kahane, said it best at the time…..
    which part of ‘they must go’ don’t you people understand….

    Kahane could be nasty at times. He would walk up to the Arabs and call them dogs. (go to 7:50)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXnyPkj54yo

    Where would you send the Arabs?

    I do not mind that you want to move them, but you never answer to where?

    Lebanon does not want them.
    Egypt does not want them.
    Syria does not want them.
    Jordan does not want them.

    So where would you send them?

    Don’t tell me you want to send the Arabs to the Arab states when the Arab states refuse them. That is delusional and dishonest.

    I suggest that you buy the West Bank Arabs a province in South America, and build them
    a country. It would cost $300 Billion.

    Artigas, Uruguay is twice the size of the West Bank with only 80,000 poor people in an otherwise middle class country. For $8 Billion you could give every Artigas person, $100,000 to move to Montevideo. Then buy the province from Uruguay and build them a country.

    A lot of money; but cheaper than war.

  30. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Unless a nation controls its own borders, it is not free.

    Knock Knock!!! Since when is Gaza a NATION?

    Gaza was never free. I am not criticizing; just observing.

    They don’t want freedom, they would starve. As a dependency they clean up.

    What do the Palestinians Really Think? Latest Poll Out
    Written by PCPSR.org
    Friday, 06 April 2012 01:54

    Findings show that the percentage of Gazans who say they seek immigration to other countries stands at 45%; in the West Bank, the percentage stands at 22%. Three months ago, these figures stood at 43% and 24% respectively.


    Gaza “siege” update

    Israel continues to send fuel to Gaza’s power plant, easing the crisis there that came about because Hamas didn’t want Israel to send fuel to Gaza’s power plant:

    Yesterday 537 thousand liters of diesel, 80 thousand liters of gasoline and about 210 tons of [cooking] gas were transferred to the power station in Gaza through the Kerem Shalom [crossing] and today (04.09.12) a similar amount is expected to be transferred.

    This is in addition to the 430,000 liters sent last week.

    Moreover:

    Four transformers were brought in order to improve the activity and electricity generation capacity at the station and are a part of an extensive project for upgrading the power supply capacity of the power plant from 80 megawatts that it can provide today to 120 MW, in two months (with final placement of the new transformers).

    And:

    During the first quarter of 2012, 639 tons of strawberries, tomatoes, peppers and flowers were exported [from Gaza.]

    Keep up those donations EU and USA. Most of it finds it’s way into our economy., 😛

  31. Some Final Thoughts:

    1. CuriousAmerican should change his name to ObservingNotCriticizing;

    2. The phoenix is absolutely right in terms of what needs to be done. It is the bottom line the only solution to this Gordian Knot and I am confident that it will come down to this one way or the other.

    3. Why we are “wasting time” is that not everyone like the phoenix has come around to this reality and we have to take the time to convince people like CuriousAmerican that just can’t understand simple things like cause and effect. Like Gaza being a “prison” is the effect of it’s waging war on Israel not the cause of the waging of war. The Israeli blockade is not the reason for the rockets and missiles from Gaza but rather the Israeli response to it. Terrorism isn’t in response to the security barrier, the barrier is the result of the terrorism. I could go on but I don’t think it really gets through to people like CuriousAmerican and that’s why we waist precious time.

  32. folks,
    I am reading the exchanges here between the yid and the american and i am shaking my head in disbelief…
    why are we wasting time? why are we splitting hairs like it really matters….
    the late (unfortunately) rabbi kahane, said it best at the time…..
    which part of ‘they must go’ don’t you people understand….
    we are wasting precious time, nobody is going to like us more if we give back 100% of 48 never mind 67….. for the world the only good Jew is a dead jew and as such we must tell the whole world that we do not give a damn! it is traitors such this mofaz guy and the rest of the criminal liberal israeli left that must be dealt with….

  33. @ Yidvocate:

    Of course you entirely ignore it’s border with Egypt, but that aside, even conceding it is a “prison” which it is not, certainly not of Israel, but for sure of Hamas – of the Arabs democratic own making no less, most enlightened western democratic nations would have reduced Gaza to ashes by now for the 10,000+ acts of war it has committed against Israel.

    It was prison by Israel’s decision. I am NOT saying Israel was wrong.

    The sea border was closed by Israel even in 2005.

    Mubarak was working with Israel.

    It was an open air prison.

    Again, this is an observation, NOT a criticism.

    Unless a nation controls its own borders, it is not free.

    Can a Gaza ship, even before Hamas in 2006, can or could a Gaza ship sail out of Gaza City to whereever it wanted without an Israeli interdiction?

    OF COURSE NOT!

    Gaza was never free. I am not criticizing; just observing.

  34. Gaza was NEVER set free. I am not saying that it should have been set free. I am saying it was NEVER set free. It is an open air prison.

    Of course you entirely ignore it’s border with Egypt, but that aside, even conceding it is a “prison” which it is not, certainly not of Israel, but for sure of Hamas – of the Arabs democratic own making no less, most enlightened western democratic nations would have reduced Gaza to ashes by now for the 10,000+ acts of war it has committed against Israel.

    If you send the Palestiians home … to where? Many were in the land for centuries. But if you send them home, they will just be piled on your borders where they will radicalize.

    And just who do you think is already “piled on” Israel’s border – non-radicalized Arabs? Where to send them? Why not follow the lead of our enlightened Arab neighbors. They sent the Jews who had lived in their countries for centuries home to Eretz Yisroel, so we can send them home to the Arabian Peninsula. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander – no?

  35. @ Yidvocate:

    What you are in effect saying is that any country that doesn’t abdicate control of it’s borders is in effect occupying the countries that it shares a border with. This would make every country an occupier of their bordering countries and visa versa. Although you don’t mention the Mediterranean blockade, which does not border Israel, both it and Israeli border control are entirely legitimate and legal and Iare only meant to thwart terrorist attacks against Israel. As for effective “control” Gaza has access
    through Egypt to the rest of the world.

    Israel had control of the Northern and Eastern borders of Gaza. But Israel did not relinquish control of Gaza’s sea border.

    If Gaza were truly set free, then the Israeli Navy would never have policed Gaza’s maritime borders. But even before the Hamas election, Israel was policing Gaza’s borders.

    I am not saying Israel is wrong. I am saying Gaza was NOT set free.

    This is not a criticism. It is simple fact.

    Much is expected of Israel. Much more so than any other state of the Middle East. The whole problem could be eloquently resolved once and for all if Israel adopted the universal practice of all the other Middle East states and that is to send the Arabs home, just as the Arabs did to the Jewish inhabitants (most of whom predated Islam) of all those other states. Then we wouldn’t any “apartheid” issues or compromise solutions that portent if not immediate, disaster, ultimate disaster. Democracy is not a suicide pact!

    Again, you mistake observation for criticism.

    Gaza was NEVER set free. I am not saying that it should have been set free. I am saying it was NEVER set free. It is an open air prison. Israel polices 2 land borders and 1 sea border with Gaza. The Gaza sea border is not with Israel but with the Mediterranean.

    Gaza was never set free. This is a fact, NOT a criticism.

    If you send the Palestiians home … to where? Many were in the land for centuries. But if you send them home, they will just be piled on your borders where they will radicalize.

  36. It was not a real withdrawl, since the borders were controlled,

    What you are in effect saying is that any country that doesn’t abdicate control of it’s borders is in effect occupying the countries that it shares a border with. This would make every country an occupier of their bordering countries and visa versa. Although you don’t mention the Mediterranean blockade, which does not border Israel, both it and Israeli border control are entirely legitimate and legal and are only meant to thwart terrorist attacks against Israel. As for effective “control” Gaza has access through Egypt to the rest of the world.

    Much is expected of Israel. Much more so than any other state of the Middle East. The whole problem could be eloquently resolved once and for all if Israel adopted the universal practice of all the other Middle East states and that is to send the Arabs home, just as the Arabs did to the Jewish inhabitants (most of whom predated Islam) of all those other states. Then we wouldn’t any “apartheid” issues or compromise solutions that portent if not immediate, disaster, ultimate disaster. Democracy is not a suicide pact!

  37. @ NormanF:
    NormanF says:
    April 9, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Shaul Mofaz of course was one of the loudest proponents of the disastrous Disengagement in Gaza that brought Hamas to power there and subsequently placed all of southern Israel within Hamas’ rocket and artillery range.

    The disengagement of Gaza was not a truly altruistic thing on Sharon’s part.

    Israel was facing a demographic disaster.

    When you added up the West Bank Palestinians + the Gaza Palestinians + Israeli Arabs together, the Jews dropped to 48% of the population under Israeli control.

    It was starting to look like South Africa.

    Sharon had to quit Gaza for demographic reasons or else explain why the IDF was controlling areas where in total the Jews were a minority.

    Even now, when you add in Gaza + Israel + West Bank, the Jews may be a minority or close to it.

    Sharon claimed to set Gaza free, but instead merely made Gaza an open air prison of sorts. Israel controls almost all of Gaza’s life lines.

    It was a way to control Gaza without the demographic disaster a continued presence would have created. It was a way to control Gaza without the appearance of control.

    It was not a real withdrawl, since the borders were controlled, but rather merely leaving the day to day routines of the prison in the hands of the prisoners.

    Gaza was not set free, but was merely not policied.

    Whether this was wise or not is a matter of debate.

    Had Israel stayed in Gaza, the violence would have escalted and somebody would have noticed the demographic disaster.

    Israel is lucky it is fighting Arabs.

    Because anybody else would have told Israel, “Okay you can have the Gaza and West Bank if you give us the vote,” which is how annexation is supposed to procede.

    Then you would have had a real disaster on your hands, because the UN would have loved such a “peaceful, democratic” offer.

    And with a clearly majority, the Arabs would have voted out the Jewish state and voted in Palestine, with the right of return being removed from Jews and being given to Palestinians.

    You are lucky you are fighting the Arabs. If you had been fighting the Italians or Spanish, or Irish, or French, they would have fought for the vote, not independence; and the Jewish state would have been in a fix.

    Some Arabs are wising up. The One State Solution is now attracting the attention of some Arabs.

    Again, the issue is NOT black and white. I wish it were.

  38. Mofaz said that he believed Israel should keep the main settlement blocs, but that he would give the Palestinian Authority as much land from sovereign Israeli ground as he kept from Judea and Samaria.

    What he would do is give the Palestinians those areas of Israel which are heavily Arabic.

    It won’t solve anything.

    The Arabs want water rights, which Israel will not give them.

    The Arabs would want to be able to build power plants and phone switching stations, so they could eventually move off the Israeli grid … and Israel could not monitor them at all. Israel would never agree to that.

    The Arabs would want an open border with Jordan, which Israel will never give them at all.

    Even so, it will not bring peace.

    In a way, I feel sorry for the Palestinians. Their predicament is not of their own making.

    Israel cannot afford to annex the area (which would require enfranchisement of the Palestinians), nor can it afford to let the Palestinian territories go.

    Both Israel and the Arab states refuse to enfranchise the Palestinians. Israel can’t and the Arabs states won’t.

    I can understand their rage.

    Believe it or not, they are pawns and the least guilty in this dance of death.

  39. Mofaz needs to have his head examined.

    When asked about Israeli residents of Judea and Samaria living in communities he would cede to the Palestinian Authority, Mofaz said, “If they’re given the right incentives they will leave their homes. Those who do not, we would have to evacuate [them].”

    If this proposal was suggested for the Arabs of Judea and Samaria, one would be derided and marginalized as a racist in the Israeli media and the west. Yet somehow ethnically cleansing Jews is perfectly acceptable and even demanded as a solution.

  40. The Israeli left is THE stupidest group on earth. They are followed by left wing Jews from North America who regard Daniel Pipes is a right wing radical. They are crackpots.

    I know. I have several of them in my family.

    Israel has to be hit and Israelis must feel that they are on the edge of elimination before things turn for the better. Then all these demented politicos, maybe even Bibi, will be hung as the Italians did to Il Duce.

  41. Shaul Mofaz of course was one of the loudest proponents of the disastrous Disengagement in Gaza that brought Hamas to power there and subsequently placed all of southern Israel within Hamas’ rocket and artillery range.

    If you think he learned some humility in the wake of that catastrophe, you would be wrong. He wants to repeat it in Judea and Samaria and give a Hamas-run Palestinian Arab state a rocket and artillery platform right next to Jerusalem and Israel’s heavily populated coastal plain. Which is a sure-fire prescription for unremitting Arab genocide on the bulk of Israel’s population.

    He has shown why Israeli politicians in general are among the stupidest on earth. His proposal I suspect won’t fly with security-minded Israeli voters.