T. Belman. That’s not what was promised to Israel. Israel just had to complete the mapping with the US and then Trump would approve. It appears the deal has changed. Before it was an inducement for Israel to freeze development for 4 years. Now it no longer serves that purpose. Instead its a penalty to be imposed on the PA for not coming to the negotiating table.
Now Trump gave no one a chance to prevent US recognition of the Golan as part of Israel or Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. In this case, there is no obligation for Trump to give them another chance. They certainly haven’t earned such a chance. So why is it important that Trump give them another chance. Who cares what people will say. This is not a borderline case. We have had 25 years of their intransigence and murder.
“Nobody can say we didn’t give the Palestinians a chance to go back to the table. If they want to talk, we are ready.”
By Aaron Reich, JPOST
Despite a refusal by the Palestinians to be involved in any negotiations and a lack of government in Israel, US President Donald Trump’s administration will push forward with the “Deal of the Century” peace plan, including giving White House approval to Israeli annexation, senior presidential adviser Jared Kushner told US senators in a closed-room meeting last Wednesday, Channel 13’s diplomatic correspondent reported through Axios.
The news comes just following Israel’s third election within a year, which has seen the country still divided as no clear winner has emerged from the political deadlock.
Despite this, it seems the Trump administration feels both Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his chief political rival, Blue and White leader Benny Gantz, will both support the annexation.
Though US and Israeli officials met in Jerusalem two weeks ago to discuss which areas of the West Bank over which the Trump administration is ready to recognize the application of Israeli sovereignty, Kushner has stated that the overall demarcation process will take months.In the meantime, he urged the Palestinians to start negotiating, saying that they could improve their position through negotiations, but they only have themselves to blame if it goes ahead without their approval, the Axios report stated.
The Palestinians have stated their refusal to accept the Trump administration’s peace plan well before the plan was even unveiled, and since then have refused to budge on the issue.
In addition, the Palestinian Authority has been cracking down on any perceived efforts of “normalization” of ties with Israel in the months since the plan was unveiled. According to Kushner, who presented the senators with the same presentation used at a UN Security Council meeting in February, the situation has become increasingly worsened due to two specific factors: Increasing expansion efforts by Israel in the West Bank, and the increasing dependence of Palestinian leaders on foreign aid.
According to a senior White House official, “Kushner’s message was that every time negotiations failed, the Palestinians got more money and Israel was able to keep expanding the settlements, but the peace process became a false notion and didn’t solve anything. Both parties’ leaderships just kept getting what they want without improving the lives of the people.”
Kushner cited the support of many Arab states, as well as the EU’s lack of opposition to the plan, as reasons why it could still go forward.
“Nobody can say we didn’t give the Palestinians a chance to go back to the table,” a White House official told Channel 13. “If they want to talk we are ready. We think we can make it better for them, but if not the world is going to move on without them. We are not going to do things in the same stupid manner it was done before. We are going to keep moving forward.”
The Trump peace plan, entitled “Road to Prosperity,” was first unveiled by Trump and Netanyahu in January 2020. Under the deal, the Trump administration will recognize the annexation of and application of Israeli sovereignty over 30% of the West Bank.
@ Reader:
You begin with incoherence, but never mind, I understand; Members here freely extend information, (perhaps mistakenly in your case) and don’t need to be asked, but of course if one asks, another will supply-if he/she can. Some, like Adam, Sebastien, Michael S. and Bear do much research and are chock-full of info, I don’t do much that way, rely on already absorbed knowledge.
Don’t explain and defend so much, But I’m grateful that you were grateful;
The “cut and paste” has nothing to do with me, it was to do with your “arguments” with Sebastien.
I’m delighted that you are “subscribed and registered on Israpundit”, and long may you be with us…….
Pilpulim. are still pilpulim !!
MAZALTAV !!
@ Edgar G.:
This is your mysterious post:
“Well…..I’m no D’Israeli like you. I took your post seriously, in that you wanted to augment your information, and I was supplying, in good faith, It was jammed in its box for hours, and Ted and I went to a lot of trouble to free it up, so that you could get what you seemed to be asking for.”
I don’t understand your “plain words” above. Why am I, all of a sudden, Disraeli? I don’t know what comment of mine (or someone else’s) you are referring to. Whose comment was jammed in its box for hours? I thought you are referring to one of my posts. I wasn’t asking you for anything, I said I was grateful that you posted about the British-American agreement and I searched and found the actual text of the agreement (Convention) but I certainly hadn’t expected you to ever help me with any of that information.
When I mentioned “cutting and pasting” I meant the foreignpolicy.com article about Netanyahu from the year 2012. That website also requires a subscription but it let me read this article and print it into a file.
I AM subscribed and registered on Israpundit.
We don’t have to discuss Netanyahu or anything else anymore, I just dislike putting politicians on a pedestal and staking too much hope on an imperfect human being. I like to go into the facts and background of things instead of just a surface like/dislike feeling because sometimes just one stray fact may demolish the most carefully constructed hypothesis and thing are often not what they look like on the surface.
@ Edgar G.:
This is your mysterious post:
“Well…..I’m no D’Israeli like you. I took your post seriously, in that you wanted to augment your information, and I was supplying, in good faith, It was jammed in its box for hours, and Ted and I went to a lot of trouble to free it up, so that you could get what you seemed to be asking for.”
I don’t understand your “plain words” above. I don’t know what comment of mine (or someone else’s) you are referring to. Whose comment was jammed in its box for hours? I thought you are referring to one of my posts. I wasn’t asking you for anything, I said I was grateful that you posted about the British-American agreement and I searched and found the actual text of the agreement (Convention) but I certainly hadn’t expected you to ever help me with any of that information.
When I mentioned “cutting and pasting” I meant the foreignpolicy.com article about Netanyahu from the year 2012. That website also requires a subscription but it let me read this article and print it into a file.
I AM subscribed and registered on Israpundit.
We don’t have to discuss Netanyahu or anything else anymore, I just dislike putting politicians on a pedestal and staking too much hope on an imperfect human being. I like to go into the facts and background of things instead of just a surface like/dislike feeling because sometimes just one stray fact may demolish the most carefully constructed hypothesis and thing are often not what they look like on the surface.
@ Reader:
Yes we are speaking COMPLETELY different languages; I was not saying one single word connected with Ted posting “your” comment; you are positively misunderstanding my plain words.
Also, you seem to be trying to make a dispute with me, where none exists-that is- if you read and understand my posts, So why do you persist, writing down verbatim my whole remark-for what purpose I know not-I know what I wrote and don’t need to see it again?? !
Let us just discuss without so much heat…Your comments are interesting and show research, which I myself am too lazy to do, as I’ve said here before Netanyahu never admits defeat in his mind anyway
@ Edgar G.:
“A politician, especially a PM who sticks to policy through thick and thin, is a fool..Remember the Great Hannibal…..a great strategist will shift and change his tactics until he has the ground he’s prepared to battle on…”
True, if you only talk about tactics and if the shifting and changing brings you closer to victory but not closer to defeat.
@ Edgar G.:
@ Edgar G.:
I don’t pretend to be able to see into anyone’s mind. I quoted from an article in foreignpolicy.com from 05-30-2012 and I posted the article’s URL. If you couldn’t access the article, it’s not my fault.
I was looking for FACTS to support my recollection of Netanyahu’s compromises and giveaways throughout his political career and I found them and posted the quotes. This doesn’t mean that I prefer Gantz or whoever. I just think it is useful to know a politician’s true worth.
I also think that it is easier to fight a known enemy than someone who pretends to be your friend and then stabs you in the back while you are asleep.
@ Edgar G.:
“How could I-or you, or indeed any of us- know what the actual intent of the British was 100 years ago in the International scheme of things??”
By their actions and by reading some books on history. Also, how can anyone be so incredibly naive as to believe the good intentions of non-Jews toward the most hated people in the world?
“Well…..I’m no D’Israeli like you. I took your post seriously, in that you wanted to augment your information, and I was supplying, in good faith, It was jammed in its box for hours, and Ted and I went to a lot of trouble to free it up, so that you could get what you seemed to be asking for.”
I absolutely don’t understand the meaning of what you wrote in the above quote and why you and Ted feel you are doing me a favor of posting my comment (please, tell me which comment of mine it was). It is like we are speaking different languages.
@ Reader:
I see that you can also see into Netanyahu’s uncertain mind….!!.. I think you are using speculations as if they were facts, so I do not agree with you on this…. although I certainly do, on other matters.
@ Reader😮
Well…..I’m no D’Israeli like you. I took your post seriously, in that you wanted to augment your information, and I was supplying, in good faith, It was jammed in its box for hours, and Ted and I went to a lot of trouble to free it up, so that you could get what you seemed to be asking for. I don’t know why you use the word “argue”; where is the argument??
How could I-or you, or indeed any of us- know what the actual intent of the British was 100 years ago in the International scheme of things??
@ Reader:
A politician, especially a PM who sticks to policy through thick and thin, is a fool..Remember the Great Hannibal…..a great strategist will shift and change his tactics until he has the ground he’s prepared to battle on…..THIS, is Netanyahu. He is streets head inside his mind over any other politician in the country, and matches up with any great politician across the globe.
Sebastien is quite right.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
I did cut and paste the quotes. It let me read this one article and I also “printed” it as a PDF file.
@ Reader:
In any case, I don’t think anyone has forgotten but Bibi’s skills in other areas have turned Israel into the international power house that it is, today. Under the present circumstances, it is just between him and Ganz. Bibi has a right wing coalition behind him and Ganz has a fifth column. It is very much like the contest between Trump and whoever the Democrats pick. If I could vote, I would vote for Yamina, which means Bibi as PM, Bennett as Defense Minister, Shaked as Justice Minister and a right wing coalition strengthened against Bibi’s potential opportunism.
@ Edgar G.:
I am not arguing with you, I am just trying to point out that all these declarations aren’t worth the paper they were written on. That’s why they were “forgotten”. Actually, they were NOT meant to be remembered.
The ORIGINAL INTENT of the British was to piggyback on the Zionist cause to take over most of the ME and later to kick out both the French and the Jews.
With the Jews it didn’t work and I hope it never will although everyone keeps trying to squeeze them out of the ME including, strangely enough, many of the Jewish American and Israeli politicians.
@ Reader:
You have to be a subscriber. Maybe you cut copy and pste the passages that support your argument.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Here is an extremely interesting and, I believe, very accurate analysis of Netanyahu as a politician and as a Prime Minister from 2012:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/05/30/the-curious-case-of-benjamin-netanyahu/
“…And Israel has its own problems, and a leadership crisis, too. It is undergoing a political transition from a generation of founders who — whatever their imperfections — fashioned a remarkable country against extraordinarily grim odds. The era of David Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres, and Ariel Sharon has given way to a younger generation of leaders who seem to lack the judgment, authenticity, and legitimacy of their predecessors…
…His September 1996 decision to open the Hasmonean tunnel in Jerusalem sparked some of the worst Israeli-Palestinian violence since the Oslo process began.
And yet, paradoxically, it was that same tunnel crisis that triggered a diplomatic process that would produce two interim agreements between Arafat and Netanyahu (handshakes, too). This would make Bibi — Oslo’s worst critic — the first Likud prime minister to concede any West Bank territory…
…And yet, Netanyahu’s first term as premier (and part of his second) also revealed that he could be moved. His career is full of strategic retreats: He said he wouldn’t sign an agreement with Arafat, but he did. He said he wouldn’t give back West Bank land, but he did. He said he wouldn’t agree to the concept of a Palestinian state even on paper, but he has. And he said he’d never agree to a settlement freeze, even a de facto one — but then he did for 10 months (though only outside of Jerusalem).
In a sense, Bibi, the tough-talking Likud pol, is at war with Netanyahu, the man who aspires to be a great Israeli prime minister. And this tension leaves him open to compromise but also to retrenchment.
Netanyahu’s brash exterior masks a more uncertain, unsure, and conflicted interior. He desperately wants to succeed — and like most politicians, wants to be loved. He knows he’ll have to take risks to succeed, but he’s not conditioned by either nature or ideology to accept them — particularly when it comes to deals with the Palestinians. So his mode is to take a step forward and then a step or two back.”
He’ll give way but softly while trying to look tough.
@ Reader:
The major importance is that the Balfour Declaration was prominently secured into each and every declarative document all throughout that period from the very beginning ,The San Remo in 1920 assigned the whole of Palestine, which then included the “Eastern Province of Trans-Jordan”, which Churchill later slyly nipped off and gave to Abdullah, (the brother of Lawrence’s Hejaz friend Faisai) temporarily resting there, on his way up to attack the French, who had kicked his brother Faisal off the Damascus throne (3 months “reign”) …..family honour you know ..what…!!!
Churchill wanted NO trouble with the always balky French, and was in the middle of a haggling deal with them about the Mesopotamian oil lands. He also cut off the Golan to give to Syria, a French Protectorate in the share-out of Ottoman Lands.
The Balfour Declaration was also embedded in the British Mandate, and when the League of N handed it all over to the newly formed UN, the UN, in it’s Charter, guaranteed to carry out ALL of those declarations and irrevocable laws from the League of N. They ALSO have “forgotten” about this…
Of course, wouldn’t you know that the Jewish Socialists who were in charge of the new State of Israel, gave the Arabs MORE than all the declarations said they were to get- they gave them the vote, so from then on, they have been a dangerous 5th column in Israel..
@ Reader:
Freezing and expulsion are two different things. Ganz has actually praised Sharon’s eviction of the Jews of Gush Katif in the past. And now, he’s negotiating with the Arab fifth column in the Knesset since he can’t form a government without them and he clearly only cares about power. Bibi withstood Obama’s pressure for expulsion and total withdrawl from Yesha for Obama’s 8 years.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
True. But, correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t the Jewish construction in the “territories” completely or almost completely frozen under Bibi (with him successfully pretending to be at least centrist if not actually on the right?) I dimly recall that there is other stuff of the same nature during his tenure but I didn’t really keep track.
The thing is, a better candidate either doesn’t exist or he or she will never make it. What I am trying to say is, I think Netanyahu will accomplish pretty much the same things as Gantz would but not directly and loudly.
The poor thing will be FORCED to give in.
@ Reader: Ganz met with the Arab List. That won’t happen under Bibi.
“According to The Jerusalem Post, Gantz reached out to three of the four parties that make up the Joint List, a predominately Arab-led political alliance, but shunned the more controversial Balad Party. ” https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/politics/1583767901-gantz-vows-to-form-gov-t-that-serves-jews-and-arabs-after-talks-with-joint-list-leaders?fbclid=IwAR2mGrEtZVMWy_Aa42vGdSH4Zt2MNKBKKzM3cqH5kAsHhVomCMK1jS50i8A
@ Edgar G.:
Thanks for the information, I could have never been able to find it without help.
Here is the Anglo-American Convention of 1924:
http://www.alliedpowersholocaust.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1924-Anglo-American-Convention.pdf
It’s amazing that Israel exists at all because the “Jewish national home” bit was just an excuse for the British and Americans to share power in the former Ottoman lands.
The wording of this thing virtually assures a complete stalemate as far as the “Jewish national home” is concerned.
@ Reader:
They were not silent, Before the Mandate was ever approved, Woodrow Wilson read it thoroughly and agreed with it. Then in 1924 There was the Anglo-American Treaty, in which the House and Senate both UNANIMOUSLY passed it, and it was signed by President Harding, then his successor Calvin Coolidge ratified it into irrevocable American LAW.
They seem to have forgotten about this.
It looks to me like a scare tactic designed to make the Arabs accept 70% of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) as their state.
With half a million (or more) Jewish settlers in the West Bank – will this necessitate another “disengagement” or population exchanges? This kind of development may prove destructive for Israel.
“US to approve Israeli sovereignty application” really grates.
Is it now the American Mandate? BTW, I remember reading somewhere (please, don’t ask me for a source) that the US was a silent (co)signatory on the British Mandate for Palestine.