T. Belman. The White House document is long on the “vision” but short on what happens in the interim.
For instance I couldn’t find where it says that Israel can extend sovereignty over the land allocated to her by the map immediately, nor what rules apply to her governance over the land designated for the future state of Israel. Did I miss something?
Now in the article below Kushner confirms that “the technical stuff” needs to be worked on.
Arutz Sheva
Jared Kushner, US President Donald Trump’s senior adviser and son-in-law, said on Wednesday that the administration believes that Israel should wait until after the March 2 election to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria.
“The hope is that they’ll wait till after the election, and we’ll work with them to try to come up with something,” Kushner told GZERO Media in an interview that will air in full on public television starting January 31.
“We’ve agreed with them on forming a technical team to start studying taking the conceptual map. The Jordan Valley can mean a lot of different things,” he continued. “I want to make sure that we have all of the parameters defined and that we have also a situation where we know what the freeze is.”
“We’ll start working on the technical stuff now, but I think we’d need an Israeli government in place in order to move forward,” said Kushner.
The White House adviser also had a message to the Palestinian Arabs who have rejected Trump’s plan outright.
“They played the victimhood card. Now they want a state. It’s all on the table. You’re not going to change people’s minds overnight, but for the first time we put out a pragmatic, rational plan…and basically what we’re saying to the Palestinians is ‘put up or shut up.’ If you want to actually make a difference, if you actually care about helping the people, you now have a golden opportunity to do that,” he said.
The situation is pretty serious for Jews in the world and this is not separated ever for a moment to the general situation facing all peoples. This latter is the mistake continually made. In essence we have to find a way to defeat antisemitism. There is a general crisis of leadership int he world and there is a reflection of this in Jewish leadership. Everything is interconnected.
The reality is that the alternative to Trump is not there. How would Bernie Sanders operate on these issues. I shudder to think.
This is the reality that faces continually Jewish leaders like Netanyahu. He faces all the time hard choices. This is why Netanyhau places emphasis on friendship with personalities. It is the best he can do in many respects.
the great mistake Trump is making is that he is not reading the Arab Palestinians correctly. he is trying to make a deal, that will create a unity between Jews and Arabs.
Once again he is being extremely favourable tot he Arabs. What is it 50 billion, 100 billion, 200 billion, and a state, a fast rail service, a coast, universities, health service, Americans do not get that.
I am taking it that Trump wins at the end of this year. Good thing he affirms America as nation. Bad is that the climate of the planet is getting screwed by Trump as leader.
I feel Israel is not prepared for anything and I saw this in the way Gantz would not join Netanyahu in Washington, meeting Trump separately. And there is this abhorrent Supreme Court.
And in that state of not preparedness some weak people will immaturely, like ultra lefts used to do, turn on a friend, that is Trump.
It is his deal and he has to be worked with good or ill.
Jews now have to come to realise…it was never your Deal
Your leadership led you and you will die with that leadership
So looks like Trump wins November
Massive economic Slump
Massive world climate crises
Massive antisemitism
Palestinians at head
Jews blamed and repeat of Hitler
Why did Gantz remain separate in Washington and is that not the key to it all?
@ Michael S:
Is this END OF TIMES conspiracy?
@ Michael S:
What Arabs in C
The DEAL trumpeted by Belman is meaningless
The problem is in the DEAL which TED has trumpeted for so long many months
@ Michael S:
Michael
Yes we can if not control have effect on weather
And can do this too
But your answer is good
@ Felix Quigley:
HI, Felix.
Yes, the “”Area C” boundaries are precise. The proposed Deal is not intended to go precisely along this line, and there are also work-arounds to ensure both Jewish and Arab connections between their areas, using tunnels, etc. Guarantees between Israel, the Wakf and King Abdullah, and the physical access of Muslims to “Al Aksa” also need to be hammered out in detail.
If the Arabs accept the final situation, Fine! If not, Israel will utlimately have to reassert control over everything anyway, so there isn’t much to worry about.
Eventually. war will break out; that’s a given. I expect Turkey to attack Israel in a few years. Afterward, I expect the UNSC to attack, and a worldwide nuclear war to break out. You and I can’t change these things, any more than we can control the weather.
I thought area C from Oslo was already precise.
The Jordan valley length is also precise leaving only the width and that is a military determination.
@ Bear Klein:
I put all my conscious being into these analyses above… will I be acknowledged?
If it is Israel’s land why would the document need to say that it can apply sovereignty right away?
Pompeo has already declared that it is NOT illegal for Israel to build in Judea/Samaria. The “Settlements” are legal they are on land Israel has a right to.
The map the USA issued is on scale 1to 100,000 not detailed enough to adequately mark borderlines of any territory where Israel is claiming sovereignty.
In a different article Kushner is quoted that Israel can start on the work of mapping it out and then working in a joint committee (supposedly agreed to by Bibi) to verify where Israel is applying its civil law.
Bennett, I believe already has people working on where Israel is going to apply sovereignty.
Doing this work and then finding time for approvals of a joint committee could easily take a few months.
Note that Kushner says “The hope is” that they will wait till after the election.
I find this respectful and Israel should return respect for America.
But nothing can ever remove from Israel its independent right to fight for the Jews which Israel has a RESPONSIBILITY to protect.
Furthermore February is naturally a short month and this will be a particularly short month.
My feelings is that this is no time for an election at all but a time for national reconciliation behind a very definite programme of defence of the Jewish people, keeping in mind the great lessons of the Holocaust.
I proceed like this. I insist that these terms in Israel left and right are dropped and are replaced by words connected to patriotism and patriots,putting the interests of the Jewish people facing genocide first and foremost.
The primary issue facing Gantz and people like that in Israel is to unite with Netanyahu behind this Plan, and to unite in agreeing that this Supreme Court persecution of Netanyahu is precisely what Israel does not need at this time.
there is a potential cadre among these leaders in these parties in Israel, about 5 to 8 key people, with certain gifts, and they ahve about four main itels that must be concluded
the Iranian bomb
the Jordan valley
area C
immediate reaction to the least violent attack from PA and Gaza areas
WHY TRUE TROTSKYISM MUST EMERGE AGAIN
In my opinion it is not quite 1942 but is rather more the early 1930s, perhaps before 1933, the critical year in which the Nazis gained power of the state in THEIR hands.
But what is our tradition, the tradition of true Trotskyism, I mean not people who CALL themselves Trotskyists, but the truth of the matter.
Norman Geras wrote about Trotsky and his position and he wrote well despite the shortcomings of Geras in actual fact.
“MARXISTS BEFORE THE HOLOCAUST
Ishall begin here from an astonishing fact. In December 1938, in an appeal to American Jews, Leon Trotsky in a certain manner predicted the impending Jewish catastrophe. Here is what he wrote: ‘It is possible to imagine without difficulty what awaits the Jews at the mere outbreak of the future world war. But even without war the next development of world reaction signifies with certainty the physical extermination of the Jews.’footnote1 This was just a few weeks after Kristallnacht and it was one month before Hitler’s famous Reichstag speech of 30 January 1939 in which he ‘prophesied’ the annihilation of European Jewry in the event of a world war.
I call Trotsky’s prediction an astonishing fact. For it is a common and well-grounded theme in the literature of the Holocaust that the disaster was not really predictable. It was outside the range of normal experience and of sober political projection or indeed imagination. Even once the tragedy began to unfold, many people found the information on what was being done to the Jews hard to absorb, hard to connect up into a unified picture of comprehensive genocide, hard to believe; and this applied to wide sections of the Jewish population itself. Then, after the event, its enormity has seemed to many difficult to grasp. It has seemed to be in some measure beyond understanding and explanation. We have the evidence of such a reaction from none other than Trotsky’s great biographer. Referring to ‘the absolute uniqueness of the catastrophe’, Isaac Deutscher would later write:
The fury of Nazism, which was bent on the unconditional extermination of every Jewish man, woman, and child within its reach, passes the comprehension of a historian, who tries to uncover the motives of human behaviour and to discern the interests behind the motives. Who can analyze the motives and the interests behind the enormities of Auschwitz?. . .we are confronted here by a huge and ominous mystery of the degeneration of the human character that will forever baffle and terrify
Note on this Deutscher overdoes the “mystery”…FQ
How are we to account for Trotsky’s prescience in this matter? Was it perhaps just some sort of stray, dark intuition? Or was it rather a hypothesis founded on the forms of knowledge which he brought to trying to understand the realities of his time?”
end quote
https://newleftreview.org/issues/I224/articles/norman-geras-marxists-before-the-holocaust
It was of course the latter.
Trotsky was very much alone. Though many Jews knew, and sensed it, but the prediction of Trotsky was coming from a different source completely. The source was the study of society, human society, capitalism, and the crisis of capitalism..thereby Fascism.
I have read enough of the material put out by the organisers of the deal to conclude that everything depends on the Palestinian Arabs stopping their antisemitism, that is jew hatred. Of course you never know what is in a persons mind but if that mind results in antisemitic words and deeds then the deal will be off.
trump has given Israel the opportunity but it must take it. Therefore the words of Kushner above get to the central issue. Reading between the lines Kushner sees his government in America as controlling matters. But this goes against sovereignty.
The onus now is on Israel toact. Without waiting a single second the Jordan valley must be secured militarily and jewish villages must spring up there. Witht he exception of certain Druze Israeli patriots there must only be Jews there in such a sensitive area. The same procedure exists in area C. it also is a most sensitive area.
These things must happen
1. The Supreme Court must have a total shake up if it even continues to exist. the charges against Netanyahu are based on not the treachery of Netanyahu but the treachery of the Court.
2. There must be unity in Israel to bring about definite action in the Jordan Valley area and in Area C.
3. America must give no money whatsoever to the Arabs. this is a stab in the back to Jews who have suffered. the killers of Jews are being rewarded.
4. So Israel has got to act on this Deal. To act on this deal does not mean to accept all things in this deal.
5. To act on this Deal means to act now, this very minute, no waiting.
6 Gantz must be totally scorned for his attitude in Washington in that he would not meet with Trump WITH Netanyahu.
7. This attitude and such atttitudes must be totally separated from.
8. Jews must have unity now in the face of such dangers.
9. it is impossible for the Arab Palestinians to drop their hatred of Israel and jews. they will not change and will continue their enmity.
10. Therefore contingency plans must be immediately drawn up
11. there is only the one contingency plan that can be successful…the very merest physical attack from Gaza or from PA terrirory on Jews then these entities must be, how to put it, unauthorised perhaps. this means not recognised. Absolutely no money given…by anybody…by any government on earth.
12. If they are not prepared to live in peace with the Jews of the Jewish state, the ONE Jewish state, then they must immediately be driven out. Step forward America, Britain, France and Germany, among others, who created this mess. They must take them in. they take others in.
This is a great turning point. If the reader turns to my website they will see in the menu a special part called Jew hatred. Trotskyism throughout the world must take the lead in the fight against antisemitism because Trotsky inspires us and Trotsky fought against the nazis, against hajj Amin el Husseini fascism, and against antisemitism.