Kosovo bought and paid for by Saudi Arabia

22 Comments / 22 Comments

1. Canada is slightly different than the states. We have not yet acknowledged Kosovo. In addition our government is generally pro- Israel or at least pro fairness and we now often vote with Israel rather than abstain as we used to do. In addition the National Post has pro-Israel articles and this morning a pro-Israel editorial. Canadian Jews are not as liberal as American Jews – thank G-d for that.

2. Bill, I cannot nor will not speak for Ted, I see it like this. Ted can follow your advice, find some balance between your suggestion and other points of view by mostly presenting non controversial material on pundit with occasionally some from the right and some from the left or letting us determine direction by the amount of readers and participants that respond to different items posted. A week ago Ted asked me to see if I could find something pro Israel on the web and I really looked and found almost nothing. Against Israel there is an abundance, even Jewish and Israel sites had a pro Arab slant. The political center here as well as in America and I would expect Canada to be no different can be likened to cattle who are herded and follow the majority of where the most cows seem to be grazing. Most populist politicians assume the center and fight it out over the 20% on the fringes. It is that 20% all things being equal that always determines elections in western democracies.The political center is the most fluid though sometimes moving right sometimes to the left of center. but in the end it is the most ideological of any political constituency that while being the most stable will always determine in the end who wins. Why because if the other factors are predictable the Ideological stalwarts are not. A shift of 1-2% in a close race can make the difference. They also keep political platforms from becoming Totally pure populism. What has happened in the American Election run up is all the contenders ran after what I really believe is a non existent center ignored the core melded positions so that any difference between them could be seen only through a microscope and that left only the sizzle on the steak to be sold not the steak. That is one of the reasons for Obama’s success to date. Same happened here in Israel last few elections. Political parties are pases’ In America today where less than 50% can be expected to vote it is a plurality of small majority or plurality of large minority that all the fuss and bother is about. In short I understand where you are coming from and of course I disagree. Israpundit as self described Israel advocacy blog and forum must by definition be political and in doing so to be separate from the herd must have a point of view that differentiates it from the thousands who behave pretty much like you advised. Do you believe we really need another one? I take the position the Peace now, Shimon Peres, Meretz are extreme wings of our political Spectrum, and I am sure you would have no problem entertaing them on Israpundit or in private conversation! Quote their Media etc. I have a higher opinion of the native intelligence and basic fair play of people than you. I believe in debates over ideas not superficialities of form and image.

3. Ted and all.

   Let me put the issue squarely before you.

   First off, the issue is not about me and those with whom I have become embroiled in heated exchanges.

   Usually those exchanges are set off when I take issue, not so much, if at all with what is being said, but how it is being expressed. That point however is almost always missed and the reaction is to jump to conclusions that I am disagreeing with the message itself.

   Yamit’s comment about me straddling the ideological fence is an example. Yamit is generalizing his impressions from our exchanges. Those impressions are for the most part, if not completely false.

   The challenges I have raised to most of his views have not been about his core opinions, but rather the way he has expressed them.

   If Yamit had with a more open mind, more carefully read what I was saying in my disagreement with him, he would have seen that on most core issues we are very much in agreement.

   This leads me to state what for me is the key issue.

   Does Israpundit want to gain a reputation for being an extreme right wing blog?

   It is trite, but true that:

   1. How one expresses an opinion, can often make a greater impression on the listener or reader, then the opinion or message sought to be made.

   2. We are often judged as to who we are and what we stand for, not by our words, but by whom we associate with or support.

   3. There is a natural tendency to categorize people as left or right wing, extreme left or right wing or some centrist or other wing. Once labeling such person, that label figures largely into how the listener or reader will assess the merit of what a person has to say. In many instances the opinion, say from someone on the right is not even listened to or read by one on the left or visa versa, but dismissed out of hand, in anticipation that the opinion will not accord with what they think.

   An example of how these three factors operate can be found in the fairly uniform anti-Barak Obama views expressed in this forum.

   Many articles and comments have been posted concerning Obama’s familial background, his affiliation with the Chicago South Side Trinity United Church, and support he has received from Al Sharpton and Louis Farakhan. With those connections made, suspicions run rampant as to what Obama is really about.

   I am not immune to such suspicions, but I do try to focus most on what Obama does say.

   From what Obama does say, I am in agreement with most commenters. I do not think much of him other then that I concede he is a silver tongued orator who has captured the imaginations of a great many Americans who hope so much for a change for the better, that they have swallowed Obama’s promise of change, hook, line and sinker.

   In politics, parties vying for office seek to hug the centre as much as their policies will allow because that is where the greatest number of votes are.

   The same holds true in my opinion as regard a blog that seeks to attain greater credibility, the widest possible appeal and a great and ever increasing number of followers and contributors.

   In my view the greatest chance for a blog to achieve the widest appeal and the greatest credibility is if it appeals to the broad centre, meaning people of centrist views, which includes those leaning towards the left and the right, but not to the extremes of either.

   When I cautioned Ted to be careful of having Israpundit affiliated with the JTF, it had nothing to do with whether JTF’s views were fair or accurate on one particular issue or another.

   Rather I was speaking my preference that Israpundit not be associated with any person or organization that by reputation are extreme right wing. By doing so or in posting articles that have been written by people known to be extreme right wingers, it is my view that Israpundit runs the risk that it too will become known as a right wing extremist blog.

   It is my preference that Israpundit establish itself as a major credible pro-Israel advocacy blog that has the potential to draw to it the greatest number of people. To do that, as I have stated, I believe Israpundit should be appealing to the broadest spectrum of people.

   As it is, Israpundit is considered to be a right leaning blog. I don’t have a problem with that, since I too lean to the right on a number of issues. In spite of being a right leaning blog, Israpundit still is sufficiently balanced to appeal to a more centrist spectrum of readers and through Ted’s efforts, Israpundit has already achieved a good measure of credibility.

   My concern however is that Israpundit should be very leery of moving towards the extreme right, thus putting its credibility with those of more centrist views at risk and limiting its appeal to only right wingers and extreme right wingers.

   It may well be that I hold a minority view. I can live with that. We do after all live in a democracy.

   If Ted and the majority of Israpundit followers do want to make associations with the extreme right wing, to express in many instances what are essentially centrist views, but which are expressed in more extreme fashion, to make room for more extreme right wing followers and do not see any risk in that as I do, so be it.

   In writing here as I have, I felt it time that Israpundit address head on, this issue of what it wants to be and where it wants to go.

4. Narvey you can’t straddle the ideological fence for ever some day you are going to have to make a call, the middle is full of invertebrates are you comfortable being in the middle?

   yamit82, thatc omment of yours would have to rank as one of the all time best comments I have ever seen from you (or antone else) on the pages of Israpundit in a very long time.

   Well done yamit82! 🙂

5. Dear Ted,

   the pro-Islamofascist/pro-Nazi liberal-leftist antisemitic assholes on YouTube have REMOVED the JTF video:

   New U.S. President Will Be Anti-Serb, So We Must Fight Back!
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxLJTpEquY

   Ted, please consider doing a post on Israpundit exposing this blatant Joesph Goebbels and Wikepedia style Nazi/Islamofascist censorship of the truth!!

   Thanks a million,Ted.

   warmest regards,

   Joshua Rosenberg.

6. Bill Narvey; What do you not agree with in the Wiki page devoted to JTF? Most of it is classic right wing American and even Israeli articles of faith. I saw the video and a framed picture of Kahane is right out in the open for all to see. He seems not to hide what he thinks and believes. I like a strait shooter who tells you up friont what he believes and does not pussy foot around with euphemisms. Sinon Weisenthal Center is a front for Peace now. They never were or are now a respectable example of objective political thought. They have resided in Austria not Israel . I think they are now in LA, real Zionists. besides tracking Nazis they were always in the Communist/ socialist camp. Follow the Money here. also Abe Foxman is a joke today, he is on the pad to so many, you have to do something really bad to the Jews to get noticed by him today and then its probably selective to protect those who pay him. Arik Sharon the current veggie was against them wow thats a reference for, I would say. He is saying pretty much what Feiglin is, most of Youth in Yesha and me the extremist. History has shown . As a matter of fact most of the Israeli right and American religious right agree in principle with what was described. So what your problem are you afraid of the long arm of the Israeli Shabak? I hear they are not so big in Canada anyway! Is levinson or Gordon racists or extremists for publishing or posting stuff against Blacks and Muslims? Narvey you can’t straddle the ideological fence for ever some day you are going to have to make a call, the middle is full of invertebrates are you comfortable being in the middle?

7. One link I almost forgot which exposes Wikipediabias:

   http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia

8. I very well aware of Chaim Ben Pesach’s background regarding the tear gassing of the Soviet ballet and the bombings of Soviet diplomatic missions in the 1980’s for which Chaim Ben Pesach paid his dues to society via his incarceration for several years in prison.

   In fact I did not read about that history of his on the highly biased liberal-leftist web haunt known as Wikipedia(who have been exposed repeatedly censoring and lying in favor of Balkan Nazis and Islamofascists such as Tudjman and Izetbegovic), instead I read about it all on the JTF website itself.

   As far as the kind of people who have associated themsleves with Chaim and personally invited him to high level meetings for political advice in recent years, one need only read the front page of JTF’s website:

   JTF’s Chaim Ben Pesach Meets
   High-Ranking Bush Campaign Officials
   (Originally published by JTF.ORG on March 17, 2004)

   “High-ranking officials in President Bush’s re-election campaign invited JTF National Chairman Chaim Ben Pesach to a special meeting in Washington, DC to discuss JTF’s research on left-wing Democrat Presidential candidate John Kerry’s past.

   “The dinner meeting at a kosher restaurant was supposed to last an hour. It lasted over four hours. It was too late for Chaim to return to New York that evening (which was the original plan) and so the Republican officials booked a hotel room for Chaim to spend the night.

   “Chaim and the Bush campaign officials agreed to remain in touch on a regular basis – with meetings at least once a month, and with conversations by telephone at least once a week.”

   So the Bush administration had no qualms whatsoever in inviting Chaim to a high level meeting in 2004 for political advice and did not consider his past actions in the 1980’s as an impediment in any way.

   The JTF do not try to hide any of Chaim’s past actions against the Soviets which got him imprisoned, as JTF posted all of that 1980’s history on its website for all the world to see.

   At least Chaim and JTF is honest enough to admit the truth, which is a hell of a lot more than can be said of Wikipedia and the mainstream liberal-left media.

   In any event, everything that Chaim says in that YouTube video (link posted above) is absolutely 100% accurate.

   All Chaim’s critics on the web and the liberal media can do in response to his telling the truth about what is happening to Israel,the US and Europe is to “attack the messenger and not the message” by dredging up his past actions which he has already paid the penalty for.

   Getting back to the subject of Wikipedia as a source of supposedly “neutral” “accurate” information:

   To see how Wikipedia editors have consistently censored and lied in favor of Nazis and Islamofascists on its web pages, and for an expose of how utterly biased and unreliable Wikipedia really is as a source of information, see the following links:

   http://www.mediachannel.org/wordpress/2007/08/17/cia-and-fbi-computers-used-for-wikipedia-edits/

   http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/06/wikipedia-nazi-monopoly-on-tudjman.html

   http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2006/04/croatiaphobia-wikipedia-extends.html

   http://www.opendemocracy.net/media-edemocracy/wikipedia_bias_3621.jsp

   https://www.israpundit.org/2006/?p=3480

9. When the body’s immune defenses are turned off, damaged or confused, they can no longer ward off infection and bacteria. It usually results in death.

   In Kosovo we have a situation where the body is attacking itself, leaving the infection to spread and attack other infected areas unabated.

10. Ted, I presume you are referring to Chaim Ben Pesach AKA Vincent Vancier of the JTF.

    Check out Wikpedia about this Kahanist organization at:

    http://www.israelappel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jewish_Task_Force

    Searching out Pesach and his JTF on the web brings a lot of hits. There are some sites that state he was deported from Israel, has served time in prison for his part in a bombing and has been denounced by Simon Wiesenthal Centre and the JDL in the states.

    I suggest you check this guy and his organization out very carefully before having Israpundit linked to him and the JTF in any positive and supportive way.

11. I WATCHED THIS VERY IMPORTANT VIDEO. WHAT CLARITY OF THOUGHT

    Can anyone get him in touch with me.

12. Watch this Jewish Task Force video on YouTube!!

    It is entitled: New U.S. President Will Be Anti-Serb, So We Must Fight Back!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxLJTpEquY

13. Nigel; there is no such animal as Humanitarian values in Judeo /Christian beliefs. so if you use that term pls. define it first. You may be very correct re: Saudi influence in everything we don’t like or agree re: American foreign and even domestic policies, but a group or CABAL of greedy corp. Giants whose only national loyalty is Corp. and individual bottom lines is not much better, maybe even in some ways worse! In the final analysis it is all the same when things go South Blame the Jews or their proxy Israel. Serbs do not have to deal with this level of resentment , hatred and prejudice.!

    ISRAEL’S PECULIAR POSITION
    By Eric Hoffer (LA Times 5/26/68)

    I received this article by e-mail and wanted to share it. It was written 34 years ago. Some truths never change. Eric Hoffer was a non-Jewish American social philosopher. He was born in 1902 and died in 1983, after writing nine books and winning the Presidential Medal of Freedom. His first book, The True Believer, published in 1951, was widely recognized as a classic.

    The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it, Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese – and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis.
    Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world. Other nations when they are defeated survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews. No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on. There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him. The Swedes, who are ready to break of diplomatic relations with America because of what we do in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway.

    The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general. I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us.

    Eric Hoffer 1968
    June

14. The Saudis forced NATO to wage a war against the Serbs to get out of Kosovo.

    No. The Saudi division of The Globalist Criminal Syndicate helped out with financing and providing fighters, etc. while the NATO division of The Syndicate ran military and various other political operations. The Soros-esque “Human rights” department of The Syndicate’s PR division generated bogus Serb atrocity stories, the Syndicate’s Ministry of Mass Mind Control (the mass media) propagated these stories with the “right wing hawk” department screaming “bomb the bastards” while the “left wing dove” department declared “Ok. OK. Just don’t hurt the Serbs too much.” thus helping ensure cognitive dissonance would be induced in Western audiences.
    And it worked.

    I’m not sure what’s more absurd – the Protocols of Zion theme, or the funky new limited hangout “Protocols of Mecca” theme which appears designed to keep certain defenders of Humanitarian values distracted.

15. Bokababe

    Well put.

16. If the US and NATO are allowing Saudi Arabia to determine foreign policy in Europe, the they are supporting the interests of “The Crescent” over “The Cross”. And if the US and NATO, based out of primarily Christian countries, is willing to support the “Crescent” over the “Cross”, just how safe for how long do you think that the “Star of David” will be safe from them?

17. Hi

    Feiglin leads his own party and is a right wing member of Likud. His interest is entirely Israel and morals. He has recently published a book of his writings called The War of Dreams. I just posted this comment as an example of the type of moral stance that should be applied to Kosovo. Other than that it is irrelevant to this article and Kosovo.

18. America recognizes Kosovo (part two)

    Why did President Bush recognize Muslim Kosovo’s independence so quickly? Unfortunately for Israel, it just represents one more step in the complete abandonment of the Bush doctrine.

    The 2006 elections led to Democratic control of both houses of Congress, and threatened the Republican party with permanent minority status. It was also an overwhelming rejection of the Bush doctrine. But Bush still had two years to go, and a little wiggle room to bring the Republicans back from total rejection, so a radical change in course ensued. This meant jettisoning the “bad” neo-con Republicans who had led him to defeat, and embracing the “good” traditional businessman Republicans whom he had previously sidelined. So Rumsfeld was out, Cheney marginalized, Gates brought in and Rice became the voice of the always-Arabist State Department.

    This new team brought in to save the day represented the branch of the Republican party consisting of conservative Jew-hating WASPs, who have always been allied with Saudi oil money. Their policy has always been straightforward: “The business of America is business”, and appeasing Muslims is good for business. And if Israel is destroyed in the process, it’s a two-fer.

    The results of the policy change include: no longer recognizing any connection between Islam and terrorism, reconciliation with Iraqi Sunnis, abandoning southern Iraq to the Iranian-allied Shiites, giving Iran a free pass to build its nuclear bomb, immediate recognition of Muslim Kosovo, and forcing Israel into a “peace process” that can only lead to its weakening and eventual destruction.

    Since appeasement of Muslims and destruction of Israel are also on the agenda of liberal Democrats (but with very different “justifications”), these new policies take some heat off the Republicans, but push Israel into an ever more difficult position.

    Assuming the Saudis are pulling the strings, they would be very happy if Israel and Iran destroyed each other. And the Saudis can always count on the Republicans saving them from Iran, while the Democrats also probably would.

19. Jonathan

    I have found the reference:

    “This Monday, Moshe Feiglin spoke at a Tel Aviv demonstration for human rights in China. In his speech to the diverse crowd, Moshe said as follows:

    “As a Jew, I am embarrassed by the fact that the State of Israel ignores the horrible crimes being committed in China. We must all remember that the crimes of the German nation during World War II and the horrifying holocaust that it perpetrated against our brethren were preceded by broad international legitimacy given to Hitler’s regime – at the Berlin Olympics. When the Israeli delegation will march at the opening of the Beijing Olympics, it will be a seal of approval of the Jewish nation for the horrors that the Chinese regime is committing.”

    Moshe promised a survivor of the Chinese concentration camps at the demonstration that he will do all that he can to assure that the State of Israel will once again represent the eternal ethical values with which the Jewish Nation is destined to light up the world.

    In a related article on Germany, long-time Manhigut Yehudit member Ohad Kamin wrote as follows:

    The day after a Palestinian rocket severely injured a young boy in Sderot, the Israeli prime minister flew to Germany. In his meeting there with the Chancellor, he explained the situation in Israel and sought German approval for an Israeli retaliatory strike.

    The Germans have been acting as mediators between Israel and the Palestinians in the negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit. They are also involved in other behind the scenes talks. They know much more about the true situation in Israel than Israel’s citizens. It is interesting that just seventy years after the Holocaust, it is specifically the Germans who can dictate what happens in Israel.

    In Israel, Germany is also considered the representative of the finest that human culture has to offer. Germany enjoys this status despite the Nazi savagery that cannot be detached from German psycho-politics. There is no need for anything more than clear logic to understand that the anti-Semitic madness that murdered millions of Jews cannot flourish without a culture to back it up. Nevertheless, many of Israel’s leaders and artists frequent Germany and seek its blessing, mediation and instructions on both political and cultural issues.

    It is clear what part of the history of the last century makes the Germans ideal partners and confidantes of the Arab enemies of the Jewish Nation – particularly when Israel sees Germany as a neutral, reliable party. There is no doubt, though, that in following generations, many will question the current cultural coordination between the nation that gave birth to the murderers and the nation that provided their victims.

    I need to know a number of things.

    1. What is the nature of the present Chinese regime

    2. Who is Feiglin and what are his politics. What is his position towards Yugoslavia, towards the murder of Milosevic, towards the Hague Kangaroo Court, towards the imprisonemnt there of Seselj.

    3. I am not denying they exist, I need to know more about the concentration camps Feiglin refers to.

    I wopuld not have went this direction but you and Feiglin have done so.

20. America recognizes Kosovo (part one)

    America recognized Kosovo’s independence one day after its declaration. This is the same America that fought its bloodiest war ever killing hundreds of thousands of its own people to keep the Confederacy from achieving its independence. I guess if the southern states still wanted to secede today, then they would just have to convert to Islam, and Bush and Rice and Obama would wish them Allah-speed in the world’s newest nation of Confederistan.

    What America did to Serbia in order to sieze Kosovo from it, namely the total destruction of its infrastructure and power generators, leading to collective punishment of its entire population, would be considered an international war crime of the highest degree if Israel had done it to Muslims.

    When America took control of Kosovo, it placed the Kosovar Serbs (? 200,000) at the mercy of the Muslims. About half gave up immediately and fled to Serbia. The remaining 100,000 (whom I believe are just south of the Serbian border) have now been surrounded by the Muslim forces of independent Kosovo. I doubt this situation is stable.

    Either these final 100,000 Serbs will be ethnically cleansed leaving a completely Muslim, Serb-rein Kosovo, or Serbia will partition Kosovo and incorporate northern Kosovo into Serbia.

    But Serbia cannot do this by itself, and the wild card is Russia. Ten years ago Russia was too weak to help Serbia, and had to look on helplessly while its Slavic cousins were humiliated by the West. Today’s rich, powerful, nationalistic, and resentful Russia of Putin may not be willing to see this happen again.

21. “Kosova” is the name given by Albanian Fascists to their state.

    Also I don’t get this. China is opposing this independence.

22. I took the following from the Manhigut Yehudit site. Amended to fit the circumstances, it should represent everyone’s (Christian or Jew) view of Kosova as well

    This Monday, Moshe Feiglin spoke at a Tel Aviv demonstration for human rights in China. In his speech to the diverse crowd, Moshe said as follows:

    “As a Jew, I am embarrassed by the fact that the State of Israel ignores the horrible crimes being committed in China. We must all remember that the crimes of the German nation during World War II and the horrifying holocaust that it perpetrated against our brethren were preceded by broad international legitimacy given to Hitler’s regime – at the Berlin Olympics. When the Israeli delegation will march at the opening of the Beijing Olympics, it will be a seal of approval of the Jewish nation for the horrors that the Chinese regime is committing.”

    Moshe promised a survivor of the Chinese concentration camps at the demonstration that he will do all that he can to assure that the State of Israel will once again represent the eternal ethical values with which the Jewish Nation is destined to light up the world.