T. Belman. Singer misleads by writing
“My humble opinion: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu needs to confirm to the Court, if true, that one of his senior officials has been discussing implementing the Saudi-based Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution or alternative solutions in alleged secret back channel meetings with a senior PLO official for the last three months.”
He offers no evidence that it is true or that it threatens his Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution
The Khan al Ahmar issue is solvable but two practical solutions were rejected by the illegal residents who seem to want confrontation. Op-ed
By David Singer, INN May 2, 2023, 9:49 AM (GMT+3)
A showdown between Israel’s Government and High Court of Justice on 1 May concerning the demolition and evacuation of an illegal Bedouin encampment-cum-village – Khan al-Ahmar – threatens to shred the implementation of the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution and cause an international uproar.
Three judges of the High Court of Justice on 24 May 2018 unanimously rejected a final appeal by the 200 residents of Khan al-Ahmar to demolish the illegal settlement and evacuate its residents – finding the Government had that right “under the letter of the law”.
Two sites for their evacuation have been rejected by the residents:
- A relocation site 8.5 km. away
- Relocation to an area adjoining Abu Dis – where Israel has reportedly invested some 80 million shekels ($23.7 million) preparing infrastructure, roads, electricity, water, sewage, a health clinic and school – all on state land
Nine adjournments had been granted since 2018 until 1 February this year when these three Judges refused to grant the newly-installed Netanyahu Government a tenth adjournment for a further four months – creating an immediate political crisis by ordering the Government to come up with a plan of evacuation by 2 April and relisting the matter for final hearing on 1 May.
The Judges were unmoved by the political ramifications they were causing for the Government by refusing another adjournment and demanding a timetable for demolition.
That plan of evacuation was apparently not provided by the Government to the Court by April 2.
Instead a submission has been filed in the Court by the Government arguing that only the Government should decide on the timing of any demolition – not the Court:
“The petitioners have not proven any cause which would justify court intervention in the broad discretion the political echelon has regarding the manner and timing of the implementation of the demolition orders in the [Khan al-Ahmar] compound … the question of timing and method of implementation the [demolition] orders are influenced by wide and varied political and security considerations. As such, and bearing in mind the classified information on which these considerations are based, the position of the political echelon is that the decision regarding the question should be left in their hands…is a complex and sensitive question, the consequences of which exceed mere construction and planning laws,” and could have consequences “for Israel’s foreign relations and security.”
From tens to hundreds of thousands of anti judicial reform leftist protestors demonstrating throughout Israel every Saturday night for the last thirteen weeks, waving PLO flags until their public relations experts warned them they would lose support, have been demanding no suggested reforms be made by the Government to the High Court’s jurisdiction to hear and determine cases brought before it.
They have now been joined by two of the leftist demonstrators’ most-hated politicians – Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir – who both unsuccessfully argued that the Government in its submission should allow the Court to make an order for Khan al-Ahmar’s demolition – the last thing these protestors would want to see.
How is this looming showdown going to be avoided?
My humble opinion: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu needs to confirm to the Court, if true, that one of his senior officials has been discussing implementing the Saudi-based Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution or alternative solutions in alleged secret back channel meetings with a senior PLO official for the last three months.
This disclosure should be sufficient for the Court to grant a further adjournment – avoiding any damaging confrontation between the Government and the Court – leaving those secret negotiations to determine the fate of Khan al-Ahmar and thousands of other illegally-built Arab structures.
What a tangled mess we weave….
Author’s note: The cartoon — commissioned exclusively for this article — is by Yaakov Kirschen aka “Dry Bones”- one of Israel’s foremost political and social commentators — whose cartoons have graced the columns of Israeli and international media publications for decades
David Singer is an Australian lawyer who is active in Zionist community organizations in that country. He founded the “Jordan is Palestine” Committee in 1979.
#Ted:
Here is an interesting article for your readers to digest and express their opinion on:
Could Barnea have possibly mentioned that horrible phrase: “Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine”?
😀 Could’a fooled me.
#Edgar G
“Red herring”? A plan that trashes the 20 years old policy of Saudi Arabia and the Arab League calling for a Palestinian Arab state between Israel and Jordan with East Jerusalem as its capital?
At least you admit Shihabi is a buddy of MBS. He is on the Advisory Board providing advice to MBS on the $500 billion investment in a new metropolis being built on an area of land the size of Israel. Do you think he would still be on that Board after criticising Saudi Arabia’s foreign policy and adopting a new approach to resolving the Palestinian problem by merging Jordan, Gaza and part of Judea and Samaria without the consent of MBS before his solution was published in the Government-controlled Al Arabiya News?
As for Israel or the People never being prepared to accept the Saudi solution:
1. Secret negotiations between MBS and Bibi are reportedly being carried on – mediated by Bahrein’s Foreign Minister
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/371792
2. Bibi likes secret negotiations:
“You know, I’m sort of a champion of a slight twist in what Woodrow Wilson said in the Versailles Peace Conference. He said he believed in open covenants, openly arrived at. I believe in open covenants, secretly arrived at or discreetly arrived at. There we will have to have discussions about all the questions that you asked today and see how we can advance this. If you try to sort it out in advance you get stuck. That’s what happens.
In Israel, we say “climb the tree.” Everybody climbs on their own tree and says, “I’m here, and I’m not climbing down and no matter how many ladders you give me.” I’m stuck in my tree, the other guy is stuck in his tree, and we just shout at each other across tree trunks and we never get to a meeting of the minds or an actual meeting on the ground. I think we have to take a different position. All these things need to be discussed discreetly, responsibly and, within the confines of closed meetings, openly. And once we get an agreement, then we can come out.
I don’t need the public fanfare, I don’t need it. You know, if you come to an agreement, it will be publicized. If you don’t come to an agreement, nothing happens. I think we can come to amazing agreements.”
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2022/12/15/Exclusive-The-Netanyahu-Doctrine-an-in-depth-regional-policy-interview
3. I am sure that the hundreds of thousand of protestors against judicial overhaul would welcome an end to the confict on the basis of the Saudi solution. Your view is not the only view. Ending the conflict – not perpetuating it – is a worthy objective that these demonstrators would do well to turn their minds to in trying to achieve.
Don’t write off the Saudi solution after it has been out for just 13 months.
You haven’t written off the “Jordan Option” and it has been around for at least seven years with breathless predictions that it has been coming almost every week.
Hope I won’t still be writing articles on the Saudi solution for that long. The deteriorating situation in Judea and Samaria needs to be addressed far sooner.
The Saudi solution is the only plan that offers an end to 100 years of conflict with the division of sovereignty in Judea and Samaria and the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The opportunity it presents should not be missed. If negotiations fail to implement the plan – so be it.
Sorry to read that you will not be posting any further comments.
I am embarrassed to find that AFTER I wrote that it was best to ignore David, I posted 14 more responses to this incorrigible gentleman.
His suppositions cried out for factual refutation. Perhaps a lawyer’s asuteness-a trick. Well….I was tricked.!!.
David-
For the LAST time -and please do not respond.
You know darned well that Trump and the PM already knew that the PA would not accept any Abraham Accords. So the caveat of a 4 year margin before Israel could walk into ALL YESHA freely was never in danger of not being accomplished. And the important defensive Jordan Valley was Israel’s.
You are again prevaricating. And you are ignoring thefar more viable “Jordan Option”.
And “The Saudi Plan” was never the Saudi Plan it was the brainchild of Ali Shihabi, a buddy of MBS admittedly, but it was only a “red herring” which they knew Israel would never accept, neither the politicians nor, more importantly, the People. I have posted why not -ad nauseam.
Besides the PA strongmen fighting over the succession and much much more that I just can’t be bothered any more to get into.
You’ll have noticed that apart from myself, no one even responds to you any more, and I stop right here whether you reply or not.
My foot is tired from kicking at the rubber wall and unintentionally keeping you “relevant”. Walk down the Yellow Brick Road by yourself. !!
Fare thee well………Finis…..!!
#Edgar G
Bibi and Gantz agreed to do just that when they accepted the 2020 Trump plan. Luckily for them the PLO rejected that plan.
Even more luckily for them – The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution emerged in 2022 which trashes any new State between Israel and Jordan.
Take careful note of what the Saudi solution states:
“The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined. The issue in this day and age for people should be not so much the ownership of ancestral land but more the critical need to have a legal identity—a globally respected citizenship that allows a person to operate in the modern world. Labor in this day and age is mobile and having citizenship in a country that facilitates such mobility is critical to human development.
The most logical vehicle for this redefinition and hence for the solution to the Palestine problem is the kingdom of Jordan. Over the last seventy-five years, Jordan has developed into a relatively well-governed state, although the impact of regional political turmoil has caused it to fail economically and become heavily reliant on foreign aid for its survival. It is this Jordanian governance infrastructure that needs to be captured and put to productive use in integrating the millions of Palestinians and Jordanians into a modern, reasonably well-functioning state that would, in an era of real peace and economic integration with Jordan’s neighbors, have a much higher chance of growth and prosperity.”
DAVID-
Please, stop dissembling. PM may have made a promise to ” make peace” with SA. Political chaff. You can count on ONE finger the number of “pre-election pledges” that Politicians spout, and have a finger to spare.
They ALREADY have peace with SA, and have had for several years growing yearly.. All “peace” does not depend on “signed documents” as YOU WELL KNOW.
As for the rest, give it a rest. Israel will NEVER agree to handing over any of it’s heartland to corrupt Arab Jew-Hating tottering regimes…or any other kind.
“Absence of “evidence” does not mean evidence of “absence””………….
#Edgar G
Of course the Saudi solution is not acceptable to every Israeli and more organisations than just the Women in Green will oppose any such solution.
However Bibi made a pre-election pledge to make peace with Saudi Arabia and the path to that peace involves dividing sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.
between Israel and the newly-created Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine.
Whether a deal on Judea and Samaria can be done can only be determined after negotiations to implement the Saudi solution have been exhausted.
I understand the pain that people such as yourself would suffer to give up Jewish claims to one square metre of Judea and Samaria. But look at what Israel would receive for making that sacrifice:
1. An end to 100 years of conflict between Arabs and Jews over territorial claims to former Palestine
2. Recognition of Jewish sovereignty in part of Judea and Samaria for the first time in 3500 years
3. Recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s sole capital
4. Peace with Saudi Arabia
5. Rejection of an independent Palestinian Arab state between Israel and Jordan
Bibi’s political career will not be finished if he can swing this deal. He will be revered as the Israeli Prime Minister who managed to do what no other Prime Minister before him was able to achieve.
David-
My Ultimate Last Word(s)
The P.M does no thave the same control over the Party Coalition that the HAS had. He has viable contenders, and opposition even in the
ranks.
I do not believe that any of Eretz Yisrael will be handed over to the corrupt, Jew Hating, disintegrating Hashemites. Especially not when the Jordan Option is ready at hand.
There are many organisations, some with POWER, like the Women in Green, who would strongly oppose any of this and always be attacking the “Plan”.
The P.M’s political career would be finished with a capital “F”. I strongly believe this.
Saudia is a leopard and you know what is always said about his “spots’.
Anyway I just don’t believe it, and how can I believe in what I don’t believe.
I admire your tenacity and who you once were.
Again, for the LAST Time…”Fare Thee Well”
.
#Edgar G
I support negotiations to find out what those borders will be. If they are not acceptable to Bibi the Saudi solution will end up in the dustbin of history, You don’t want to see any negotiations because Bibi will have to agree to give up Jewish clams to part of Judea and Samaria. You ignore that in doing so Jerusalem will become recognised as the sole capital of Israel under the Saudi solution.
David –
Yes, that’s what’s wrong with it. The Arabs aren’t entitled to even an inch of it, even if they weren’t just planning to use it as a base to destroy the rest of Israel and launch attacks on defenseless Jews.
The League of Nations recognized Jewish sovereignty over ALL of Palestine, including Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and Jordan at San Remo in 1920 and reaffirmed in countless legal instruments which are still in effect.
Giving them Jordan under a government that would keep them from posing a threat and would attract many of them out of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza with a river as border, in land that was already made Judenrein long ago thanks to Churchill’s treachery is the only compromise that doesn’t represent a threat to israel and Israel’s 7 million Jews, not to mention the Jews of the rest of the world, indirectly. There would have been no Holocaust, if Israel had been independent and there won’t be another as long as Israel survives.
Proposals to wittle down more of Israel’s territory voluntarily are never helpful and it’s hardly the first of its kind.
Even before Israel applies sovereignty to the territories, the IDF can always legally go in as it must to root out terror. It would be insane to give that up, especially to Jordan, whose people and whose corrupt govenment hate Israel and hate Jews. As the former prime minister who signed the peace treaty said not long ago, they’d invade Israel tomorrow morning if they were strong enough. God willing, they never will be. By rights, Israel should be seizing, annexing and settliing more territory from its enemies. expelling hostile Arabs, but it won’t do that partly for both moral considerations and the awareness that the international community would come down on Israel like a load of bricks.
The JO is the only practical way of getting significant numbers of Arabs to leave and leave they must for there to be an end to the constant murders and attempted murders of Jews by Arabs in Eretz Israel and every other place Jews live. There were over 7,000 assaults on Jewish civilians in Israel by mostly Muslim Arabs last year alone. It’s been over a hundred years, already and most of the Arabs are the children and grandchildren of Arab migrants who came from the newly created surrounding Arab countries in response to Jewish economic development during the Mandate period. Most of the rest came in response to Jewish development from 1870 on. They are not indigenous.
They are enemy aliens, with individual exceptions here and there. Every poll as well as public behavior indicates that the vast majority support Israel’s destruction and antisemitic terror. They Must Go. Those who stay must remain in non-contiguous enclaves whose freedoms and rights or the lack thereof are determined by whether they are violent as laid out in Stephen Plaut’s tweak of Mordechai Kedar’s emirates plan.
Or things will just get gradually worse as Israel gets smaller and smaller as one government after another kicks the can down the road.
At present there are an average of 8 attacks a day on Jews by Arabs who are celebrated as heros in their toxic communities. Only Arutz Sheva and The Jewish Press reports most of them, nearly all of them, in their Defence/Security and IDF and Security sections respectively. Shameful. You know Al Queda terrorists once apologized to Israel for accidentally attacking the IDF out of fear. Israel needs to inspire fear in its enemies. Making concessions is like cutting yourself in shark infested waters.
David-
First of all my learned friend, the term canard does not need “false” added to it. It means “false”…Know your language before using it.
Secondly there ARE close to a million Jews living in what is deemed “Palestine”. You forget the outskirts of Jerusalem with 350,000+ Jews. living there. You are not the only one permitted to cast a wide net.
I don’t fight fire with fire…..I use WATER…
Thirdly and lastly (T.G.) you have no knowledge of what the assumed borders would be, just like myself, and -like you- I am permitted to speculate, even though you are the acknowledged expert in floating fiction.
.And as a “tag”. My assertion-NO canard- that the PM would be kicked out “with hob nailed boots” if my speculation were to be accurate, is NO canard.
And an extra “tag”, just for you. I am NOT spreading anything, I am posting in our blog just as any members do. Spreading “manure” about Khan -el-Amar is YOUR baby only.
Fare thee well again.
#Edgar G
Stop speading false canards like this one:
Netanyahu does not intend to – and you should be ashamed of yourself for falsely claiming he would.
The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution calls for the division of Judea and Samaria between Israel and the new entity – the first plan ever to make this proposal.
There will be no deal if the “close to a million Jews” do not find themselves living within the new borders of Israel established as a result of the division of Judea and Samaria.
DAVID-
My very LAST words on this crap. (and n answer to your totally ignored post., ()I credit you for providing us with a( lot of fun).
So say “thank you Edgar”…No NO… please don’t bother… I was kidding.
1) Abdullah is a totally senile old goat who just hangs on.
2) MBS is the busiest man in the country and has no time to read
nonsense, even in the very unlikely event it was brought to his desk.
3) Abbas is a fat bundle of disease and almost moribundity/
4) Haniyeh…….WHO??? a Hamas terrorist at loggerheads with the PA
and an Iran stooge. Pooh…!!
SEB-
You mention “evidence”………??? Are you zinging a ” Singer” on us…??
The evidence that the world is flat lies in the complete absence of any statement by world leaders to the contrary.
David-
Granted they read El Arabiya. It’s read all around the gulf and elsewhere. Saudia has 20% of the readership, And It’s owned by the Saudi royal family.
But how much of it is believed. To date, concerning this article …nothing… I assume there was not a flood of “Letters to the Editor: supporting this article by an unknown Jew.
One thing I can be certain of and I believe, even if you deny it, so can you.
As soon as Netanyahu signifies that he supports and intends to give away Israel’s Holy Heartland (containing close to a million Jews,) to his Jew Hating almost defunct neighbour he would be finished in politics
His name would be excoriated.
And the public would never allow it to happen. Along with much of his party and coalition.
I can NOT see the cagy, brilliant PM ever contemplating such a destructive move.
****What are the reasons that cause you to believe he will???*****
I’ll have to stop talking about this nonsensical subject, or I will become as deluded as yourself, well as prolonging the farce.
So Fare Thee Well, David old crust.
#Ted
True – I have not heard one word of affirmation. But whilst there is not one word of rejection by these four major players – I am entitled to take the position that the plan is still alive. Remember how Abbas treated the Trump Plan? Not a whimper from him about this Saudi solution.
Netanyahu has put forward the following proposition :
#Edgar G
They may not be readers of Israpundit – but they sure are readers of Al Arabiya News Arabic edition – which published this article (English translation) on 8 June 2022:
https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine
David-
You ask…”why do you think they have not rejected the solution”
You can have a Heinz 57 answer or a single answer.??? Let’s go for ONE
They have never even read your items and don’t know who you are…
.
.
.
@ Daivd, you can also continue to believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus.
Actually Santa Claus is seen at USA shopping malls every Christmas Season so he would be the most real of the mythical things under discussion.
I once dressed as his him in college and literally got on a White Horse, as we put a Christmas Party for Orphans at my fraternity in college. So I once was Jewish Santa Claus. Poor Horse was really old and I scared him as rode him into the fraternity house and out.
Your Dream Plan for Israel and the Hashemites (lives in your mind, your right)
Tooth Fairy (not real)
Santa Claus (HO HO HO)
@David Singer
Nor have you heard one word of affirmation.
Remember what Freud said about the definition of insanity.
To #peloni #Edgar G and #Bear
I intend to keep flogging the dead horse until I hear one word of rejection of the Saudi solution from one of the following:
King Abdullah
MBS
Mahmoud Abbas
Ismail Haniyeh
I have been waiting 13 months but not one of them has uttered one word of rejection. It is very easy for them to do so. They could even post a comment here to join you three and put an end to the proposal.
Why do you think they have not rejected the solution?
@Edgar
Indeed, this describes the matter quite well.
PELONI and BEAR-
In the immortal words of Sam Goldwyn (real name “Goldfish”)
“I can gave you a definite “maybe”. But the way David puts it, it always seems like “maybe not”, “if”, “when” “need to” “why” and etc, all the subterfuges that Goebbels made famous 90 years ago.
A blunt description is “Flogging a Dead Horse”., -in this case, a mythical one.
@Bear
Nicely put.
@ David, let me put this short and sweet. I am not buying what you are selling.
@David
Actually, you can’t and don’t tell me anything. This is a matter of self interests, and the plan which you ascribe to the Saudi’s is incapable of satisfying the interests of any one of the parties involved outside of the Hashemites who would do anything to keep themselves flushed with cash, protected from their subjugated subjects, and with a pretense of relevence which they do not have and can not fulfill.
So while you may quote from Ali Shihabi as being his lone supporter, his proposal does not propose anything which might support the interests of any of the parties involved, which is why it is never mentioned, not once, not by anyone but yourself.
#peloni1986
I can only tell you what is in the Saudi plan – which I suspect you have not even read – given your comment.
The Saudis obviously have a different opinion of the Hashemites to proponents of the Jordan option calling for regime change.
@David
So you believe that the Saudi’s who have a genuine desire, if not need, to extend and strengthen their bond to Israel would place the Hahsemites in a position to completely upend that relationship while still dominating the Pals as they do today, but with an even greater dominion over them? Why do you believe that Abdullah would not continue the abuses he places on the Pals today since he only does so to protect himself from them. Why would he stop promoting the Islamist teachings which are a major thread which has maintained the contention between Jordan and Isreal despite the ‘peace’ treaty which already exists – recall that the purpose of him doing so has been to provide him an alternate target for his people to project their anger away from his wretched regime.
Why do you believe that the Pals would accept maintaining the Hashemite tyrant in a position of complete subjucatoin over them?
Why do you believe that the Saudi’s would jeopardize their long term goals by building those goals upon the treacherous nature of the Hashemites?
Why do you believe that Israel would trust the Hashemites with a more significant position from which to extend their terror war against the Jews?
If you are correct and what I have written below is “Boloney”, you must address the hear of elephants in the room, which these questions only partially reveal.
#Bear Klein
Wrong, There are secret negotiations reportedly going on between Netanyahu and Mohammed Bin Salman – under the mediation of Bahrein.
Wrong. The Palestinians are part of the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine (HKOP) solution which provides:
• All current Palestinian Arab residents living within the recognized borders of HKOP will gain citizenship in that newly-created entity.
• Any Palestinian Arabs living outside the newly-created entity would have two choices:
(i) Return to live in and acquire citizenship there
(ii) Become citizens of HKOP while also getting full residency rights in their current country of residence equivalent to what an EU citizen has in the European Union outside his or her home country. This would allow those Palestinian Arabs to gain full civil rights as legal foreign residents without impacting the local political or sectarian balance in these countries.
#peloni 1986
Boloney peloni.
Saudi Arabia has made it abundantly clear that if the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine is created – it will be governed by the Hashemites.
Prattle on as much as you like. That is the reality.
BEAR-
What you post is 99% correct and borne out by the facts “as we know them”
The under-the-table-agreements are not known to us, but we all can make logical guesses.
One thing. My understanding , from news reports is that the old king is practically moribund and takes almost no part in governance.
Yet, he (seems to) be O.K. when showing antagonism to Israel.
So this old dog, still has teeth-and bites.
I think it’s the “Abbas” syndrome.
Knesset Israel Victory Caucus Calls on Israel to Start Defeating its Enemies… Again
@David Singer,
@Peloni,
Peloni, I agree with most of your comments to David Singer.
All except one and the following comment is more addressed to him, than you. The negotiations are between the Saudi’s & Americans mostly not including Israel. They are concentrated on the Saudi’s wanting a civilian nuclear program agree to and sponsored by the USA. Also the Saudi’s want to be as in the past under the military protective umbrella of the USA versus Iran.
Israel – Palestinian peace solutions, according to the Saudi’s would be the last things addressed after everything else is agreed to. This according to the Saudi spokesman have not yet been addressed.
This issue is not high on the Saudi’s list of importance. Also it is very tricky because in-spite of MBS being mostly in charge of things, he can not do everything he wants to (assuming he would do something Israel would agree to).
His father the King is still opposed to Israel and so are many other Saudis. So thinking some great Israeli – Palestinian Peace is going to come out of Saudi-Arabia anytime in the near future is simply faulty.
Israel and the Saudis are expanding their business relationship and other relationships. Doing this quietly is the best for both parties at this time. It is not in either parties interest to rush this.
Biden and the Saudi’s have very lousy relationship and they are very far apart on an agreement that will satisfy the Saudis.
@David
It seems to me that this was already done when Churchill slid his pen along the Jordan which was later stipulated under international law as binding. Ceding three-quarters of our lands failed to appease our enemies just as ceding any fraction of our remaining lands would fail to do, and for the very same reason that it would be less than 100%.
You delude yourself to believe that if we give them more that they will be satisfied that we have less, when in truth their appetite for our deaths will only be sated when they have all and we have none. Our destruction is not negotiable for them and not acceptable to us, so there is nothing which we have which we should offer to those who oppose our existence except a healthy scorn and our continued persistence to oppose them in every way possible.
Your solution will lead to the same solution of the TSS, to deal with a terrorist whose hands are soaked with our blood and to trust that they will be earnestly willing to honor a new deal when they have betrayed the deal they are already required to honor. In fact your Hashemite friends have no interest in peace or coexistence and will continue their attempts to sweep us into the sea until delusional meshugannah plans such as you propose provide them the means to do exactly that.
In this I would agree with you, but the only terms which meet the requirement of being “a solution that Israel and the majority of its population can live with” will see the Hashemite occupiers removed from power as well as their Islamist allies in the PA and Hamastan. Replacing these creatures of our destruction with an honest ally will be the only means by which our existence is assured and peace might be achieved. In fact, any agreement which satisfies the interests of Israel and the Saudi’s would necessarily require the termination of the Hashemite and Islamist rule over the relative areas, as they are and have been the point of division which has served to block any rational peace agreement between Israel and her Sunni allies. The tight coordination between the Islamists and the Hashemites are the same forces which oppose both the moves towards moderation in SA as well as any possibility of a meaningful peace deal with Israel. For the Hashemites to support the necessary aims of the Israeli’s and the Saudi’s it would require them to undo the entirety of their own power structure, something which they can not do even if they desired to do so. Likewise, for Israel and SA to pursue peace would require a stability in Jordan which addresses the needs of its citizens which are in both Jordan and the PA. Such a stabilizing change would destabilize the Hashemites, making the interests of the Pals, the Saudi’s, and the Israeli’s quite at odds with that of the Hashemites. In other words, for the peace which you seek to occur, the Hashemites must go so that stability might be achieved in their absence, but which can not even be attempted while they remain.
Time will tell the truth of what comes next, but whatever that might be, it will not be the fantasy of the Hashemites extending their rule further into Israeli lands, nor of Israel and the House of Saud trusting their future to the care of the corrupting control of the Hashemites. Anything which meets the needs of Israel and SA would require the expatriation of the Hashemite cleft within Jordan, and only then might a meaningful peace be achieved between the Pals and the Israeli’s and the Jordanians and the Saudi’s. It would be the first step towards making the JO operational and it is what I believe is taking place currently beyond our gaze. But time will tell.
@David Singer, I agree with you 100% about the Jordan Option (see your quote below in box)
But candidly your Saudi plan has no verifiable (except to you) credentials either and if it were real is just another peace train to nowhere.
What all the Magical Israel-Palestinian Peace Plan creators seem to leave out is the Palestinians desire to destroy Israel and not make peace with it! It is who they are, it is their DNA. They do not want peace but to destroy Israel. So the conflict is zero-sum and before you have peace it must be after an overwhelming military victory over all the terror groups. Just like WWII took the utter complete destruction of the NAZIs and German Army. It needed the killing, imprisonment or dispersal of their leaders. That is step one.
Only after that and now I will say something that makes most uncomfortable a population dispersal or relocation of any of the Arabs who are not willing to live peacefully and loyally in a Jewish democratic state.
After the foregoing occurs, plans such as the emirate plan might have a chance.
#Edgar G
The Saudi Plan provides for the heartland of Israel to be divided between Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine in as yet to be negotiated proportions. If the proportions are not acceptable to Israel – the Saudi plan will get buried like all the other plans that preceded it.
A concluded peace agreement would shut up once and for all the UN’s fraudulent claim that Jews have no legal right to live in Judea and Samaria.
Why you would not be interested in negotiations to see what deal Bibi can conclude is beyond me – especially as this deal would also see Jerusalem becoming the sole capital of Israel and the end of 40 years of the EU, Arab League and UN trying to create a separate Palestinian Arab state between Israel and Jordan.
This Saudi solution a piece of crap? No – it is revolutionary and ground breaking -offering Israel what no other solution before it has promised.
My gripe with the UN is their refusal to acknowledge the existence of the Saudi Solution or to consider it as an alternative solution to the two-state solution – to even discuss a solution whose implementation could end 100 years of conflict between Arabs and Jews – something I have tried to bring about for the last 50 years.
Hopefully the secret negotiations presently going on between Israel and the PLO and Bibi and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman will produce a solution that Israel and the majority of its population can live with.
Your preferred Jordan Option remains a figment in Ted and Mudar’s imagination.
It is in a two way race with the Moshiach to see who comes first. After so many false reports of its imminent arrival for years – the Jordan Option is running well behind the Moshiach.
MICHAEL_
I like the way in which you can eliminate 4000 years and speak so familiarly of our good old pal Hiram the wood merchant, and the “Gibbs” (not the ones who swing from tree to tree), and others not named.
They dealt differently with the 7 Canaanite city kingdoms, and whadda ya tink of how they treated Jericho… Not nice…..
Shouldn’t happen to a dog.
DAVID-
Apart from Peloni and the many others who laugh at your silly efforts to push the “Saudi” plan to filch the heartland of Israel, it’s very roots,
your long obsession with this piece of crap surely MUST end somewhere, short of your demise.
The Jordan Option solves everything in a far simpler, easier, better, more benign, less land grabbing way than any other yet concocted, nearly all of which emanated from Israel and Jew Haters.
You seem to see a great difference between the UN insisting on stealing YESHA to give to a fake nation, and the Saudi planned “Kingdom of Jordan which also steals YESHA, Hashemite or Deep Fried.
I see NONE, because there IS none..
Please regain your once respected self the soonest.
#peloni
I repeat again: It is not my plan.
It is a plan – whose attempted implementation I support – emanating from Saudi Arabia – authored by a confidant of Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman – that trashes 20 years of Saudi and Arab League policy calling for an independent Palestinian Arab state between Israel and Jordan with its capital in Jerusalem – and consigns all other plans with similar objectives proposed for decades to the garbage bin.
Why has the UN – the world body representing 193 nations – never made any reference even to the existence of this Saudi solution – let alone support or oppose the plan – since its publication on 8 June 2022?
Because it is a plan which shreds the UN 2016 two-state solution enshrined in UNSCR 2334 – pushed with increasing Jew-hatred by a disgraceful and shameless United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People – spewing out almost daily that Jews have no legal right to live in their ancestral and biblical homeland of Judea and Samaria, that Jews are oppressing another people and stealing their land, that Jews have to share their eternal capital with another people recently-created in 1964.
The UN clearly doesn’t share your unsubstantiated fear that it is a “nightmare scenario” that “would bring ruin on the state”.
The UN remains silent for exactly the opposite reason – because implementing the Saudi solution would end the Jew-hatred being spread by the UN, end a conflict that would see Israel reconciled with the Arab world and expose the UN’s total failure to resolve the conflict which it first attempted to mediate back in 1947.
The UN must be cheering people like you who vehemently oppose the Saudi solution – not even being prepared to contemplate any negotiations attempting to implement it.
You are helping to keep the UN the epicentre of Jew-hatred for decades to come. Enjoy your “measurable sense of relief” that no one but me is talking about this game-changing solution.
@ Michael yes Jay Shapiro has in the past endorsed the Palestinian emirate concepts.
Nir Barkat a Likud Minister is now endorsing this concept. None of the other concepts are endorsed by any government minister. Meaning two state or Jordan option………etc.
Barkat is a possible successor to Netanyahu in the Likud.
Hi, Bear.
I find myself very much in agreement with you on this matter. Hasn’t Jay Shapiro been a great proponent of the United Emirates of Palestine idea? I agree with him 100% on this.
As far back as the time of Joshua, the rulers of Israel have had autonomy agreements with “emirates” like the Gibeonites, and treaty relationships with neighboring kings such as Hiram of Tyre. God even sided with the Gibeonites (Second Samuel 21:9) at one time, to give them revenge over a wicked Israelite king.
@David
In fact, within your presumptions, you presume a great deal. In particular you presume that anyone is thinking about the well ignored plan with which you have become wildly obsessed. Instead of peace, your obsession would bring ruin upon the state. The one fact about your plan, however, which does bring me a measurable sense of relief is that it remains you alone who makes any reference to it. In fact, I pray that it will never go further than the musings of your own imagination, and am satisfied that the statesmen leading both Israel and Saudi Arabia have too much interest in not destroying what relationship they have thus far developed by tying their fate to the ruinous endeavor which gives you such joy. So if it gives you satisfaction to feed your obsession, well, have at it, but it should be noted that what you propose is a most dangerous proposal, irregardless of your visions of kumbaya.
Palestinian Emirate Solution
There is no clear and easy solution to the Israeli Palestinian Conflict.
Nir Barkat has put himself into the camp of believing that Palestinian Emirates as Kedar has proposed for years is the most plausible solution. These would be autonomous Palestinian Tribal Entities run by an autocrat in each area. He says they could cooperate with each other if they wished but there would be no Palestinian State. In other words there would be an emirate each in Gaza, Jericho, Hebron, Nabulus, Jenin…..)
Could this work? Israel would apply sovereignty to all Jewish Towns, Area C, Jordan Valley and any peaceful Arab Emirates in Area A could run their own affairs. The IDF would have overall security west of the Jordan River but the Emirates would be allowed to do their own city service type management (garbage collection, local policing, education).
The Emir or leader of each tribe would be required to cooperate with the IDF and Shin Bet to ensure security in each entity. Peaceful entities would be allowed to send day workers to Israel. Non-peaceful Areas would end up under Israeli Martial Law and would lose autonomous status.
As I started there is nothing perfect or easy or it long ago would have occurred.
The Palestinian Authority is rapidly dissolving, they have stopped security cooperation with Israel. This was their main rational for being allowed to exist from an Israeli perspective.
Terror in Judea/Samaria is up significantly. Israel is fighting the terrorists constantly and as Ben Gvir correctly says a major operation is needed to clean the dens of terrorism. So the following actions are needed:
1. Wipe out Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad terrorists and cells.
2. Find & Work with a Tribal Leader in potential Pal Emirate to autonomously manage a certain specified area.
The advantage of this Emirates concept is that Israel by itself works with a local tribal leader and no conferences or concurrence of any foreigner is needed. No USA, no EU, no Jordan………………
Will it work? I see no other immediate realistic ideas. The other alternative is the Civil Administration does all the work at great cost to Israel in many ways.
If Jordan ever becomes a democracy ( I have serious doubts about this being viable) they could allow Palestinians to emigrate to Jordan who wished and bestow Jordanian Citizenship upon them. They could also give Jordanian Citizenship to any Arab living in one of the Emirates.
#peloni
Get a grip on yourself.
Nightmare scenario?
What will be created – if the Saudi plan is successfully implemented – is a territorial entity ruled by the Hashemites such as existed between 1950 and 1967 – without Jerusalem and a large chunk of Judea and Samaria – plus Gaza – all of whose residents will become citizens of the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine. Security in all the territory of this entity west of the Jordan River will be under Israel’s control.
Had King Hussein heeded Israel and stayed out of the Six Day War (Anniversary today) – that 1950-1967 territorial entity would probably have continued to be inexistence today.
This time around the countries won’t be at war as they were between 1950 and 1967. The conflict will be ended.
@David
Indeed, something is indeed brewing, but only your immaginings would lead you to believe it is the nightmare scenario you recklessly advocate on behalf of. Or at least, that is the drift I am getting.
#peloni
Sour grapes on your part – seeing the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution taking root after Biden, the UN and EU tried to bury its existence for the last 12 months?
I won’t be there. As long as Bibi and MBS are at the party – they are the two who really count. Seems as though Blinken is now keen to join them.
King Abdullah is probably still recovering from the wedding of his son Crown Prince Al Hussein bin Abdullah to Rajwa Khaled bin Musaed bin Saif bin Abdulaziz Al Saif. Rajwa’s mother belongs to the distinguished Al Sudairi family, which includes notable members such as Hussa bint Ahmed Al Sudairi, the mother of the current King of Saudi Arabia, as well as Sultana bint Turki Al Sudairi, the late spouse of the King. Through her maternal lineage, Rajwa shares a familial connection as a first cousin twice removed to King Salman, the current ruler of Saudi Arabia, and a second cousin once removed to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman – whose confidant is Ali Shihabi – the author of the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution.
Get the drift? Something big is brewing …
@David
Notably, you are likely to be the only one in attendance, just as you will no doubt celebrate the fact that no one else arriving as an indication that they were too pleased with the concept to be present or even send a card.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/us/politics/saudi-arabia-israel-biden.html
The two-state solution increasingly appears to be Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine – if Israel and Saudi Arabia can agree on the terms for implementing the Saudi-based Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution as it readies to commemorate its first birthday since its publication on 8 June 2022.