T. Belman. Singer misleads by writing
“My humble opinion: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu needs to confirm to the Court, if true, that one of his senior officials has been discussing implementing the Saudi-based Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution or alternative solutions in alleged secret back channel meetings with a senior PLO official for the last three months.”
He offers no evidence that it is true or that it threatens his Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution
The Khan al Ahmar issue is solvable but two practical solutions were rejected by the illegal residents who seem to want confrontation. Op-ed
By David Singer, INN May 2, 2023, 9:49 AM (GMT+3)
A showdown between Israel’s Government and High Court of Justice on 1 May concerning the demolition and evacuation of an illegal Bedouin encampment-cum-village – Khan al-Ahmar – threatens to shred the implementation of the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution and cause an international uproar.
Three judges of the High Court of Justice on 24 May 2018 unanimously rejected a final appeal by the 200 residents of Khan al-Ahmar to demolish the illegal settlement and evacuate its residents – finding the Government had that right “under the letter of the law”.
Two sites for their evacuation have been rejected by the residents:
- A relocation site 8.5 km. away
- Relocation to an area adjoining Abu Dis – where Israel has reportedly invested some 80 million shekels ($23.7 million) preparing infrastructure, roads, electricity, water, sewage, a health clinic and school – all on state land
Nine adjournments had been granted since 2018 until 1 February this year when these three Judges refused to grant the newly-installed Netanyahu Government a tenth adjournment for a further four months – creating an immediate political crisis by ordering the Government to come up with a plan of evacuation by 2 April and relisting the matter for final hearing on 1 May.
The Judges were unmoved by the political ramifications they were causing for the Government by refusing another adjournment and demanding a timetable for demolition.
That plan of evacuation was apparently not provided by the Government to the Court by April 2.
Instead a submission has been filed in the Court by the Government arguing that only the Government should decide on the timing of any demolition – not the Court:
“The petitioners have not proven any cause which would justify court intervention in the broad discretion the political echelon has regarding the manner and timing of the implementation of the demolition orders in the [Khan al-Ahmar] compound … the question of timing and method of implementation the [demolition] orders are influenced by wide and varied political and security considerations. As such, and bearing in mind the classified information on which these considerations are based, the position of the political echelon is that the decision regarding the question should be left in their hands…is a complex and sensitive question, the consequences of which exceed mere construction and planning laws,” and could have consequences “for Israel’s foreign relations and security.”
From tens to hundreds of thousands of anti judicial reform leftist protestors demonstrating throughout Israel every Saturday night for the last thirteen weeks, waving PLO flags until their public relations experts warned them they would lose support, have been demanding no suggested reforms be made by the Government to the High Court’s jurisdiction to hear and determine cases brought before it.
They have now been joined by two of the leftist demonstrators’ most-hated politicians – Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir – who both unsuccessfully argued that the Government in its submission should allow the Court to make an order for Khan al-Ahmar’s demolition – the last thing these protestors would want to see.
How is this looming showdown going to be avoided?
My humble opinion: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu needs to confirm to the Court, if true, that one of his senior officials has been discussing implementing the Saudi-based Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution or alternative solutions in alleged secret back channel meetings with a senior PLO official for the last three months.
This disclosure should be sufficient for the Court to grant a further adjournment – avoiding any damaging confrontation between the Government and the Court – leaving those secret negotiations to determine the fate of Khan al-Ahmar and thousands of other illegally-built Arab structures.
What a tangled mess we weave….
Author’s note: The cartoon — commissioned exclusively for this article — is by Yaakov Kirschen aka “Dry Bones”- one of Israel’s foremost political and social commentators — whose cartoons have graced the columns of Israeli and international media publications for decades
David Singer is an Australian lawyer who is active in Zionist community organizations in that country. He founded the “Jordan is Palestine” Committee in 1979.
@Bear
See the article Ted just posted.
Biden Explores a Groundbreaking Move in the Middle East
@Peloni I will say one further thing. If USA and Saudis do not change prior positions you are correct the deal certainly will not happen.
For deals to happen people need to change prior positions in many cases. I will wait to see what happens and make no predictions as of yet.
@Bear
Bibi is being diplomatic but he is surely aware of the dependence of this entire deal upon the Americans supporting it. Even if he isn’t, which is silly to suggest based upon a statement from a press conference, it doesn’t change the reality that this is an American deal.
By the way I extended my prior post for clarity just as you responded.
@ Peloni, if the Saudi’s want a defense treaty that certainly will not happen as the Senate would never ratify it. If they are willing to live with a Biden letter (luckily he does not actually have to write it) and weapons sales that could occur. Nuclear power for Saudi Arabia I am skeptical the US would provide that, unless some other country like France or Russia wants to do that. French have better nuclear technology in any case. Assuming they really want civilian nuclear power.
Bibi said it was up the Saudi’s, so again you and him are at odds. Even though I personally think in a three way deal everyone has some say.
Funny thing Saudi’s want to buy US missile defense system. Not so sure how good it is. Israel clearly has the best integrated air defense and missile defense integrated system of any country.
Enough of this thread for me. So I will sign off here on this, as I believe I have conveyed my thoughts and likely do not have much more currently to offer on the subject.
@Bear
The greater truth is that it is up to the Americans, and the Americans are hostile towards both Israel and SA, which is why it won’t happen. As Diker and Ben Menahem state this deal is not a deal between Israel and SA, it is a deal between them and America. If by some miracle the US pursues an agenda which is contrary to its other anti-Israel and anti-Saudi positions, perhaps a deal would be possible, but such a prospect is complete fantasy.
@ Peloni according to the above quote you and Bibi disagree completely on normalization with Saudi Arabia.
I would like to see an acknowledged deal with Saudi Arabia that expands commercial ties primarily. Political interference in each other’s countries is out of the question.
There are some commercial ties already plus the over flights. This I would like to see expanded and acknowledged publicly. Expansion of commercial transportation such as transporting goods via train both ways could be beneficial to both parties. They could benefit from Israeli technology and Israel could benefit from their investments and trade.
So if it something that does not require political considerations such as for the Palestinians I am likely in favor.
@Bear
I doubt this is true for all the reasons discussed in the video by Diker. But we willl see.
@Peloni that makes you and Bibi at odds. One of Bibi’s biggest platforms has been expansion of the Abraham Accords and most of all Saudi Arabia.
I am leery of normalization with Saudi Arabia. However with favorable terms (lip service to PA or Pals only) I might be in favor. Really depends on specifics not the assumptions many people are making. I prefer to read or hear specifics and not assumptions.
If it required anything more than lip service to the Palestinians, I would likely be against it. Two State Solution concepts such as Biden has are non-starters. Bibi has agreed to such ideas based on a multitude conditions that would never occur (with Obama). I am not in favor of a repeat of that as it does not produce anything good in the long run.
@Bear
I am very much against normalization. If you have not watched the video by Dan Diker , you should. It explains clearly why normalization should not go forward and the dilemmas which exist if it does.
As Gen. Avivi, among others have noted, Israel is doing well without official normalization with SA and she should not barter with anything of significance to move the existing relationship between Israel and SA from where it is to something more formal. Something else which Glick noted is that by securing official normalization between Israel and SA, it might actually place MBS in a more difficult position vis a vis Israel and might draw SA towards manipulating Israel as only a presumably friendly nation could (see for example the recent efforts of the UAE to condemn Israel at the UN). So it isn’t just the act of normalization which can be used to damage Israel, but the close association of Israel’s normalized partners as well, which reinforces the need for a political environment which is supportive of both Israel and SA gaining from their efforts to normalize relations.
One thing more, it is dubious to believe that MBS is leveraging the interests of the Pals over that of SA. As Amb. Friedman and others have noted, this is a clear demand emanating not from SA but from the US. The hostile posture which is being flagrantly pursued by the current regime in Washington against Israel is not the environment which will likely support Israel’s interests while pursuing normalization. If MBS and Bibi want to normalize relations, and they do, they will have to wait for the correct moment to make such an undertaking a successful one. Unfortunately, the current situation does not support such an outcome, so, yes, I do oppose normalization under the current conditions.
Also,
The terms will reflect the current posture from Washington which is a hostile one.
@Peloni, correct me if I am wrong please. You are against normalization with Saudi Arabia irrespective of the terms?
I point out we do NOT know what the terms are or might be. Oren indicated the Saudi’s required a gesture towards the Palestinians. That gesture was not specified.
Oren I think was providing insight into what possibly could occur neither predicting nor advocating. He was pointing out what the benefits of normalization with Saudi Arabia could be however. So that is why I said he was hoping for that.
@Bear
You make an interesting argument and I thank you for sharing it. Either way, though, I hope what he is advocating or predicting, whichever the case might be, will not become policy.
@Peloni, I will wait to see what happens.
You have your view and as I usually say you are entitled to it. You may even be correct, but I am at this point taking Oren as analyzing what is going on in the three way negotiations.
He maybe leaning towards hoping that a normalization with Saudi Arabia could take place. I read most everything he writes and when he advocates for a position his style is much stronger normally. So that is why I came to my view.
@Bear
You read that wrong. It isn’t that I do not trust him, I trust that he is saying what he thinks should be be done, just as he was doing in 2015 when he called on Bibi to preserve the US-Israel relationship and drop his opposition to the JPOA at the last minute. Perhaps you are correct that his statement was one of observation and not advocacy, but this is not how I read his comment.
In any event, I am not disputing his position or authority, just offering my own insights, such as they are. Do you believe that his position or authority was less in 2015 when he called for Bibi to drop his opposition to the JPOA?
@Peloni was Oren advocating or providing insight into the current dynamics at play?
Do not shoot the messenger. I am not sure what he is advocating for in your mind. I read you do not trust him. He is one of the best analysts and political readers of Israel and international relations around.
Peace with Saudi Arabia could be good provided, Israel is giving up nothing of its rights or security. So first let us find out what if anything is required, assuming the USA did offer, what the Saudis wanted and would accept in the security sphere.
We can propose “solutions” until the cows come home. Everyone wants to get their oar in. It will never be solved, ever, get used to it, because the “Palestinians” are only interested in a Judenrein annihilated Israel. The two state solution was dead in the water from the day it was proposed and between Obama, Biden, the despot ridden UN and other bad faith players, the EU, UK, any realistic progress was strangled at birth, with no concrete concessions from or sanctions against the PLO/PA for their continued incitement. No demands to remove the Jew killing bits from theirs and Hamas charters. Assuming Israel survives its collective stupidity for democratically elected government to be hamstrung by the activist leftist courts, we will be having the same discussion in 10, 20, 30yrs by which time there’ll be 20 million and counting “palestinian” so-called “refugees” hopefully not built on the rubble of the former Israel, annihilated by Iran and others funded with Obama and Biden money, while the rest of the world, as it did last time, looks the other way, claiming “clean hands”, shrugging their collective shoulders and going back to treacherous business as usual, having finally sorted out that intractable “Jewish question”.
@Bear
As Oren is now calling for Israel to make this unthinkable deal with the US, I am reminded of when, on the eve of Bibi’s Iran speech at the US Congress, Oren also called on Bibi to cancel the speech. As you note, Oren is quite knowledgeable, but in 2015 when he made this misplaced suggestion that Bibi abandon his long sought campaign against Iran, Oren was much more integral to the political situation than he stands today. So now that he is calling for Bibi to, curiously enough, once again accept an American position which is contrary to Israel’s interests, I am not terribly convinced that his support for such a poor policy shift by Bibi will prove prophetic. In fact, I suspect that it won’t, and hopefully I am correct in this belief, but time will tell.
It is increasingly clear that the Leftists prefer the destruction of Israel, than have a government that isn’t hamstrung by a clearly biased and activist coterie of incestuously chosen leftist “judges” who shame the very concept of their titles. At this rate, I see Israel collapsing and dividing, terminally weakened in the face of the next inevitable attempted invasion, this time well funded by Iran, Qatar and the institutionalised Jew haters of the UM, US, EU and shamefully the UK. Still, for those players, it’ll “solve” that 2000yr+ “Jewish question” and then business as usual. Historically some we Jews’ worst enemies have been Jews eager so ingratiate themselves with the enemy to save their own worthless necks, which again historically has seen the traitors summarily dispatched when they’d outlived their usefulness, rather like the Ghetto Councils.
Deri going back into cabinet might lead to Normalization? Michael Oren wrote part of the following and he is quite knowledgeable.
Remember Bibi badly needs and wants normalization with the Saudi’s that is very high on his platform. Biden also needs a win. Saudi’s want security grantee’s.
<blockquote<a https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/israel-zionism/2023/08/recent-israeli-legislation-could-pave-the-way-to-normalization-with-saudi-arabia/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&utm_campaign=2023-08-02&_kx=WyjhU1e5XJk8ab1rDRZGX9d8UrfC9JLpFk4dvbs_ols%3D.L87CGh
In 1993, the Israeli Supreme Court demanded that the Shas-party politician Aryeh Deri be fired from his cabinet post because he was about to be indicted on corruption charges—on the grounds that doing otherwise would be “unreasonable.” Deri is now once again the leader of Shas and, thanks to the bill passed by the Knesset last week that removes the Court’s authority to cancel ministerial appointments on “reasonableness” grounds, is poised to join the cabinet once again. While much attention has been paid to the implications of this development for Israel’s internal affairs, Michael Oren observes that it might profoundly affect foreign policy:
The U.S. national security advisor Jake Sullivan visited the Saudi kingdom last week and offered Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman security guarantees and U.S. weapon systems in exchange for a normalization deal with Israel. The prince responded favorably, so long as Israel makes a gesture toward the Palestinians.
The focus on Deri’s criminal past has all but obscured his rather moderate views on foreign policy. By having the bill passed and bringing him back, [the Knesset has made it possible for] Deri to serve as a counterweight to Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, paving the way for the gesture toward the Palestinians. If Smotrich or Ben-Gvir threaten to leave the coalition, they would be replaced by Benny Gantz and his National Unity Party—a maneuver that is [possibly] already in the works.
Connecting these three components into one big puzzle will allow President Biden to preside over a peace-signing ceremony on the White House lawn—an optic that he so desperately needs. The Saudis will get the weapons and guarantees they have long asked for, but the big winner will be Israel: not only will it finally see an end to the conflict with the Sunni world, but it will also get access to the massive Saudi economy, and from there to the markets in Indonesia, Malaysia, and Pakistan. Israel’s diplomatic, economic, and strategic standing will improve manyfold.
@David
No we don’t agree. We have to forget about normalization and Biden’s machinations. Normalization is a dead end street. We shouldn’t go down it.
Watch the video I just published on this subject.
#Ted
I am pleased to see we are on the same wave length apart from #10. The Jordan Option involves Mudar Zahran negotiating with Israel which can only take place when the Hashemites are deposed. As such it is not a “ready to be negotiated plan” – which is all I am trying to establish in #10
I have sought to set out the factual position as of now – not go into any details of what the current negotiations are about – other than Biden’s state of mind set out in #2 with which you agree.
We do know that at the moment Biden’s position is that any negotiations will fail unless they preserve the possibility of a two-state solution. That is a deal-breaker – no matter what Saudi Arabia wants from Biden. Adding Bear’s list is unneccesary.
Whilst Biden maintains that position HKOPS is dead in the water. This is what we both need to focus on.
Do you agree?
@David
HKOPS has a fatal flaw which completely renders it useless to the Israeli’s, the Saudi’s, the Americans, and the Pals. That flaw is that it requires the inclusion of the treacherous, Islamist, and terror supporting Hashemites as a foundational element. What might possibly bring any one of these groups to support the role suggested for the Hashemites in this plan is a real question. I have made the relevant arguments previously, but quite briefly, the Saudi’s need a stable region, the Israeli’s need a peace partner they can trust not to betray them, the Pals need someone to represent/rule them who will not subjugate them. The Hashemites don’t fulfill any of these requirements, and instead bring to the table the fact that they support and direct the Muslim Brotherhood, they are terrified of empowering the Pals, they routinely incite violence in Israel and have recently been caught arming and funding the current terror wave in Israel. Furthermore, the Hashemites have generally betrayed every agreement they have ever signed or made with anyone.
None of these facts are irrelevant to the conceptual success of the HKOPS, even as you ignore all of them. Your response is that nobody is talking about the HKOPS so the HKOPS must be what everyone is moving towards, which is simply the most basic example of confirmation bias you could possibly suggest.
Israel and SA and Jordan can make a peace which is full, warm and enduring, but it would require the eviction of the Hashemites and the enactment of the JO. Short of this, the Saudi’s and Israeli’s could ignore the elephant in the room and broker their own deal, without Jordan, with the support of the Americans, or the Israeli-Saudi status quo could simply persist as is.
@David@Bear
I agree with everything except #10.
I still believe that the JO is the leading alternative.
But Bear ‘s list should be added to your list.
Nothing in the article that you suggested adds anything to the list.
I believe that Biden is imposing his Palestinians agenda making the deal beyond reach.
One of the reasons he is doing so is because he can’t get the two thirds vote in Congress required for its approval, .It is not MBS who has inserted the Palestinian issue in the deal, its Biden.
So I don’t believe its going anywhere and your article ads nothing to what we know.
If there were really a chance of this happening everyone would be quiet.
@ Mr. Singer – In you assumptions listed below you ignore what the Saudi’s really care most about.
When this agreed to and that is a huge huge if then the Saudi’s have claimed they want progress on the Israeli – Palestinian front. What that means precisely and what the Biden camp will demand from Israel in the end is not clear.
#Ted
Can I lay out the following facts for your consideration and hopefully agreement:
1. Biden wants to see an Israel-Saudi peace deal reached before next year’s Presidential electioneering begins
2. Biden wants to see that deal done provided that Israel makes concessions to the Palestinians that would preserve the possibility of a two-state solution.
3. The two-state solution was formulated by Tom Friedman and then Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud in 2002 and adopted by the Arab League as the Arab Peace Initiative – which still remains unimplemented 20 years later
4. Biden and Obama adopted Friedman and Abdullah’s two-state solution between 2011-2016 and attempted to broker its implementation without success.
5. As Obama and Biden were vacating the White House after losing the 2016 elections they bequeathed the implementation of the two-state solution to the United Nations by abstaining – not vetoing – the passage of Security Council Resolution 2334.
6. The UN has failed to broker any deal based on the two-state solution
7. The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine solution (HKOPS) was published on 8 June 2022 and trashes the two-state solution and the Arab Peace Initiative.
8. Bibi believes he can make peace with Saudi Arabia without resolving the Palestinian problem.
9. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MBS) has said the Palestinian problem must be resolved before there can be a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia
10. HKOPS is the only alternative solution to the two-state solution open to being negotiated at the present time – if the parties agree to do so.
11. Jordan’s King Abdullah, PLO President Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh and MBS have not rejected HKOPS in the 13 months since its publication.
Can we agree on these facts as the starting point for further discussions?
Saudi’s main demands from USA are:
More weapons (including missile defense shield);
Defense pact where USA agrees to defend Saudi’s from Iran and Houti’s
Nuclear technology from USA and building of nuclear plant
From what I read the above are the main concern of the Saudi’s
After the above is agreed to Saudi’s have no trouble doing a normalization agreement with Israel which includes USA agreement all the above demands.
Israel will have to make some concessions to Palestinians
USA is not sure they want to agree to Saudi demands.
USA government wants Israel to agree to make a path to a two state solution with Palestinians. Which for Israel is a non-starter. Have not read anything about the plan Singer plan incorporating a Hashemite-Palestinian entity.
“Saudis said to want US military alliance, nuclear program for peace deal with Israel
Channel 12 says Riyadh also wants US arms deals unfrozen and for Israel to begin peace process with Palestinians, while US said also demanding end to Israel’s judicial overhaul” https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-may-23-2023/
@David The only topic they discussed was the feasibility of SA joining the Abraham Accords according to the article you posted.
“The head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency secretly traveled to Washington nearly two weeks ago to discuss a deal with Saudi Arabia.
“David Barnea met with U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan at the White House ahead of the latter’s July 27 visit to Jeddah to discuss with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) and senior Saudi officials the possibility of the kingdom joining the Abraham Accords,” said an Axios report.”
https://www.zenger.news/2023/07/31/mossad-chief-secretly-visits-washington-to-discuss-saudi-israel-deal/
@ David
I read the article and found nothing new in it. I have already said I think all the hints are propaganda.
We don’t know what they talked about.
https://www.zenger.news/2023/07/31/mossad-chief-secretly-visits-washington-to-discuss-saudi-israel-deal/