The real Palestinian refugee problem
By Clifford May, ISRAEL HAYOM
After World War II, the British left India, which was to be partitioned into two independent nations. One would have a Hindu majority, the other a Muslim majority. More than 7 million Muslims moved to the territory that became Pakistan. A similar number of Hindus and Sikhs moved to India. Today, not one remains a refugee.
After World War II, the British left Palestine, which was to be partitioned into two independent nations. One would have a Jewish majority, the other a Muslim majority. About 750,000 Muslims left the territories that became Israel. A similar number of Jews left Arab/Muslim lands. Today, not one of the Jews remains a refugee. But there are still Palestinian refugees — indeed, their numbers have mushroomed to almost 5 million. How is that possible?
Through two mechanisms: A refugee, by definition, lives on foreign soil but for Palestinians the definition has been changed so that a displaced Palestinian on Palestinian soil also receives refugee status. Second, the international organization responsible for resettling refugees, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, was cut out from the start. A new organization was set up exclusively for Palestinians: the United Nations Relief and Works Agency. In 1950, UNRWA defined a refugee as someone who had “lost his home and his means of livelihood” during the war launched by Arab/Muslim countries in response to Israel’s declaration of independent statehood. Fifteen years later, UNRWA decided — against objections from the United States — to include as refugees the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of those who left Israel. And in 1982, UNRWA further extended eligibility to all subsequent generations of descendants — forever.
Under UNRWA’s rules, even if the descendant of a Palestinian refugee has become a citizen of another state, he’s still a refugee. For example, of the 2 million refugees registered in Jordan, all but 167,000 hold Jordanian citizenship. (In fact, approximately 80 percent of Jordan’s population is Palestinian — not surprising since Jordan occupies more than three-fourths of the area historically referred to as Palestine.) By adopting such a policy, UNRWA is flagrantly violating the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, which states clearly that a person shall cease to be considered a refugee if he has “acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality.”
But UNRWA’s plan is to continue growing — rather than shrinking — the Palestinian refugee population ad infinitum. According to UNHCR projections, by 2030 UNRWA’s refugee list will reach 8.5 million. By 2060 there will be 25 times the number registered by UNRWA in 1950 — even though not one of those who actually left Israel is likely to still be breathing.
Everyone understands what it would mean if all these refugees were actually to be granted a “right to return” to Israel. “On numbers of refugees, it is illogical to ask Israel to take 5 million, or indeed 1 million,” Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said on March 24, 2009. “That would mean the end of Israel.”
But, of course, that’s the goal: The descendants of those displaced more than 60 years ago — when the first offer of what we’ve come to call a “two-state solution” was rejected — are being used as pawns to prevent a two-state solution now or in the future. By increasing the number of refugees, by maintaining that population in poverty, dependence and anger, by understanding that the “right of return” will be demanded by some Palestinian leaders, UNRWA is helping the extremists prevent peace and continue to wage a war of annihilation against Israel. This anti-peace policy is being funded largely by Americans: The U.S. has always been the largest donor to UNRWA, contributing about $4.4 billion since 1950.
A few members of the U.S. Congress have figured out what’s going on and plan to do something about it. Senator Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) is working on an amendment to the fiscal year 2013 State-Foreign Operations Appropriations bill that, for the first time, would establish as U.S. policy that only a Palestinian refugee can be classified as a Palestinian refugee — not a son, grandson or great-grandson, and not someone who has resettled and taken citizenship in another country. The Kirk amendment would require the secretary of state to report to Congress on how many Palestinians serviced by UNRWA fit the traditional definition of a refugee.
Rep. Howard Berman, (D-Calif.), ranking member on the House of Representative Committee on Foreign Affairs, also is considering legislative options in response to these problems. At the very least, these approaches would assure that descendants of refugees would be listed — with unaccustomed clarity — as “descendants of refugees.”
They might still be eligible to receive UNRWA “services” but as “Palestinian Authority citizens” who could look forward to becoming citizens of a Palestinian state — if and when the Palestinians come to the conclusion that establishing a Palestinian state is worth the cost: giving up the dream of destroying the Jewish state. Too few Palestinians are there yet. If Congress can rein in UNRWA, more may be moved in that direction.
Clifford D. May is president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a policy institute focusing on national security and foreign policy.
@ yamit82:
The Gospels contain examples.
Thanks for your opinion[s] — on both counts.
Then again, you know what they say about opinions. . . .
Not-at-all ‘relevant’; they were off-point.
Sheer distractions, in fact, from the original point, which was that — contrary to your claim — Jesus did not teach the people to obey the Oral ‘law’ (which did not exist at the time).
What he said about the Peroushim was, in effect, ‘do as they say — not as they do; because they themselves don’t practice what they preach.”
Re-read the original posting sequence, and quit going off half-cocked.
Examples, please, of my ‘fiction’?
You don’t want to do your own arguing & reasoning; THAT’s what’s too bad.
My time is limited. From the date of this post, you can already see how far it is behind the time of your own posting.
If I took the kind of time it would require to hunt around in lengthy linked essays to find what you claim supports your bloviatings, you’d turn around & say (as you have done in the past) that it was just too far behind for you to remember what it was about.
If you want to offer somebody else’s discussion in SUPPORT of your case, that’s one thing.
When you offer it in PLACE of your case, that’s something else again.
If you aren’t prepared to argue the merits or demerits of a matter in your own words, then you have no case.
It means I’d better learn HOW to meditate. . . .
Quite so — but not just any law; and the uncodified opinions of unordained individuals loosely labeled ‘rabbi’ do not qualify as ‘law.’
There was no smicha till Yavneh (and even then, not until AFTER Yokhanan ben Zakkai had departed the academy — half-a-century after the death & resurrection of the Christ.
How would YOU know that?
YOU don’t know that for a fact; YOU only know that that’s been asserted. You don’t know it for YOURSELF.
Truth is, in the end the only genuinely proper teacher lies within EVERY man.
If a flesh-&-blood teacher — a guide, as it were — can help to put a man in touch with that interior teacher, then well & good.
But such guides are as rare as hen’s teeth.
And even more rarely do their names begin with the word, “rabbi” — or any other clerical title.
Furthermore, the real ones never let you become dependent on them; they encourage you to become self-sufficient & self-reliant.
To do otherwise would make them subject to becoming cult leaders.
@ dweller:
You are again wrong and White gives unlike you supporting documentation references in his foot notes which you never read.
You saying something a thousand times does not make it so, Back up what you say point on point or stuff it. Saying I told you is worth bubkes. Prove white’s contention wrong with credible quotes with links on point. So far you are long on wind and short on proof.
Read whites full text and footnotes and refute them. What I posted was just a time line outline.
@ dweller:
Wrong interpretation leads to wrong conclusions. Misunderstanding the Hebrew Torah allows you to invent what never was said written or intended.
I gave you before the correct text and meanings which you refuse to accept. You accept falsehood and lies but if that makes you happy?
Jewish bible, Jewish text, Jewish understanding, against YOU and Pagan Chrisitans? Slam dunk for the Jews. You will not find a single Jewish source to agrees with you on this. You will find Christians though. Both Jews and Christians can’t be both right. I would not bet against the Jews and their sages. It would be a suckers bet.
@ dweller:
What abuse?
You would do better at writing fiction rather than attempting quite poorly in trying to be a Christian apologist.
I gave you some relevant quotes from my (Jewish) scriptures that support my contentions. As usual anything thing that messes with your Farcockt theology you insert fiction with sophistic argument. Stick to the texts and draw conclusions from them. You don’t want to hit my links too bad that’s what I do. When the explanation is done better by another I use them and they are too long and detailed for me to copy, even for me. You made comments I say is a load of garbage and intellectual mind twisting. You challenge, I responded my way, you don’t like it, too bad. I won’t spoon feed every dot and comma so you can dismiss it with fictionalized renditions of dwellerisms. If you can’t support any contention based on text either apparent or hinted than you got nothing but an agenda with a very vivid imagination. If I don’t know something I search for an answer and when I find it, It is offered. You may accept or reject but the messenger (me) is not what we are debating. It’s your unsupported POV.
Judaism is based on a single question: What does G-d want. We were given a Torah which outlines what G-d expects of us and it commands us to: To learn and study the Word of the Almighty. learn and study…What does that mean to you?
What does this mean to you? [Joshua 1:8]THIS BOOK OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH; BUT THOU SHALT MEDITATE THEREIN DAY AND NIGHT, THAT THOU MAYEST OBSERVE TO DO ACCORDING TO ALL THAT IS WRITTEN THEREIN: FOR THEN THOU SHALT MAKE THY WAY PROSPEROUS, AND THEN THOU SHALT HAVE GOOD SUCCESS.
An individual Israelite had to be prepared to give up his/her life and not transgress certain commandments.
Nevertheless the Bible emphasized the communal responsibility of the whole nation.
They were to become,
A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, AND AN HOLY NATION [Exodus 19:6].
[The word translated here as PRIESTS can also mean “rulers” but the point is the same].
The emphasis is on the nation as a whole.
The Community of Israel accepted an obligation to enforce the SAME Law on all members of the Community!
[Deuteronomy 29:29] THE SECRET THINGS BELONG UNTO THE LORD OUR GOD: BUT THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE REVEALED BELONG UNTO US AND TO OUR CHILDREN FOR EVER, THAT WE MAY DO ALL THE WORDS OF THIS LAW.
The Torah was given to the whole of Israel as a group and they were commanded to be mutually responsible for each other in keeping it.
The Community was obliged to enforce the Keeping of the Sabbath.
One could be put to death for desecrating the Sabbath!
But what exactly would constitute Sabbath desecration?
Look in the Bible. It is not so clear.
It must however have been clear to someone.
The Almighty would NOT have given us commandments if HE did not expect us to keep them.
The Torah speaks of conversion to Judaism and marriage also fivorce but it does not explain in the texts HOW! Somebody must have had the information otherwise there could not be a workable society.
Finally the Hebrew text in the scrolls could not be read without vowels, many words have multiple meanings and it changes the whole context and meanings. Jews were expected to perform Kashrut but hlev without the vowels can mean milk or fat which one is meant? There are thousands of such anomalies in the Hebrew text. Rashi did not comment on verses that were were readable. There were not many he did not comment on.
If you do not know Hebrew and do not have a proper teacher you will never understand our scriptures in depth or breadth.
The Torah has always from day one been transmitted from teacher to student, who became a teacher who taught other students from theat time till today there is no evidence of corruption because the system of transmission is so well developed as to make any corrupting influence filtered out before it can take hold. No one man can corrupt this system. Jews are so meticulous with our scripture and traditions it can’t be screwed up. It takes a scribe 1 year to produce a Torah scroll and if he makes a slight error of a single letter the Torah is considered treif (unfit) and buried literally. Do you think they are even less meticulous in transmission of the oral laws?
Isaiah chapter eight speaking to the TEN LOST TRIBES and warning them not to invent religious doctrines of their own.
The Lost Ten Tribes were exiled because they added to the Law and Scripture things that were not so!
The expression translated in the King James Translation above as DID SECRETLY in Hebrew is “VaYeChapu” which can indeed mean “cover, hide” but also (see Rashi, Targum Yehonatan) connotes inventing things that are not so, hiding the truth.
They said things about the ALMIGHTY and his commandments that were not true.
The Jews kept the Law as it had been prophesied that Judah would:
Psalms 60: 9, 108:90 Genesis 49:10, Zechariah 8:23, Hosea 11:12, Ephraim goes away from the Torah yet Judah remains faithful.
By Judah keeping the Law the intention is to Rabbinical Teachings since only they have an unbroken line of Authority and only their instructions conform with the meaning of Scripture in the Hebrew original.
In Ancient Israel every male had to go up to Jerusalem three times a year and keeping the Feast Days was publicly enforced there must have been only one calendar.
The Sages had authority to decide when the Feast Days would take place.
They were given this authority by the Bible.
In the Talmud all learned scholars are exhorted to study astronomy.
I do not consider myself a learned scholar in the Talmudic sense and have not done this.
For me it is enough that the Sages have decided.
Nevertheless even from a scientific point of view the Rabbinical computations cannot be dismissed as unreliable.
http://www.science.co.il/Hebrew-Calendar.asp
Maybe NASA is wrong?
@ yamit82:
Reversed the error of Adam.
Only a man could do that. A ‘God’ couldn’t.
Actually, cosmologically speaking, more of what he accomplished took place
— between the time of his death, and the time of his resurrection.
But the tempting of Satan to take his soul in the first place was BASED on the life he lived before he died.
When did either of us assert (or imply) NT is devoid of divine inspiration?
? ? ? ? ?
Xty makes no such claim of NT as a ‘corrective.’
@ yamit82:
Bullshit. He did nothing of the sort.
As I’ve already clearly shown in earlier posts.
Nor is there any documentation to support that malicious allegation.
There is, OTOH, ample documentation to support the observation
— that he OVERTURNED the Carter State Dept assertion that the heartland Jewish communities are ‘illegal.’
(And to this day, no succeeding administration has ventured to dispute THAT reversal.)
Why would he have BOTH
1. declared the settlements legal AND
2. pushed for PLO sovereignty
in the same provinces?
The two don’t go together.
One or the other, not both.
More Bullshit.
As both you and Gil-White have still come up with nothing to support this.
Of course not. It didn’t happen.
Nor was he ‘senile.’
Some of that wasn’t ‘history.’
Francisco Gil-White is fullovit.
You cite him only because he buttresses your vile fantasies, and has a couple of degrees after his name.
But it takes something more than alphabet-soup credentials to make an honest scholar.
@ CuriousAmerican:
It would be viewed as a bribe.
And in truth, it would be
— and with all the contempt which that implies.
In the West it would work.
The M-E is not the West.
@ yamit82:
I agree, on both counts.
@ yamit82:
Xtns don’t think they ‘reject’ the Decalogue.
In any case, that’s scarcely a couple dozen verses (if you include both Exodus & Deut).
As for your link, I’ve told you numerous times, Yamit, that if you intend to dispute a specific point with me, that sending me on a fishing expedition — to find support for your claims — won’t cut it.
I simply don’t have the luxury of spending endless hours at the keyboard.
And even if I did have the option, I STILL wouldn’t let you abdicate the responsibility for making your own case.
If you still want to assert the point, be specific with your argument and quote me any explicit text supporting it.
@ yamit82:
Why only “hinted at” — if it were that significant?
Why be coy about a matter of such import? — why not state it, flat out?
Anybody can use purported “hints” to buttress anything he finds convenient.
That would be tantamount to placing the rabbbis in place of God, Yamit.
Yes, it certainly would be contrary to the injunction. . . .
It was a slave people that left Egypt and gathered at Sinai.
For centuries the people had been unaccustomed to doing their own thinking.
Most of the adults of that generation which left — died in the desert.
Those who set foot in the Promised Land had, as yet, no internal rudder to steer by
— and were subject to all the blandishments and enticements of the corrupt, degraded cultures they encountered in the Land.
They were not yet a nation, only a collection of mutually squabbling tribes; extremely vulnerable.
Yet called, for a Purpose.
For a season it was necessary that they learn to defer to “authority.”
It should come as no shock that, in time, what began as a reasonable provision could become subject to abuse.
I have found many Jews to be generous. Many! Not all. But Many.
Surprise, surprise. The second largest donor to UNRWA is Israel’s best friend–CANADA.
@ CuriousAmerican:
This plan will be implemented when cows fly. Israel is not about to give the Palestinians zilch. Israel is not accustomed to give since it believes it is more blessed to receive than to give..
@ BlandOatmeal:
I have a comment rather long in moderation as a response to the first part of dwellers comment. I have posted it before to some of your precvous comments to which you never replied. If Ted releases it you can take the opportunity to reply.
Before you answer listen to this.
Correct me if I am mistaken. Christianity stands or falls on the divinity of Jesus and the resurrection. If as you and dweller claim you are not trinitarians then how would you depict jesus? What is special about a non deified jesus? What did he ever accomplish in his lifetime? How then do you relate to a NT with no divine inspiration?
@ BlandOatmeal:
America the primary donor to UNWRA plus USAID and many other back door financial support is financed and supported not out of concern or any humanitarian motivations but because these refugees serve American interests otherwise UNWRA would not exist.
Some of the history
In 1977, the US was holding high-level secret talks with Hajj Amin’s PLO/Fatah that violated a 1975 agreement with Israel not to do that. In public, US president Jimmy Carter worked very hard to give PLO/Fatah the dignity of a government in exile. The explicit point of Jimmy Carter’s diplomacy was to give international legitimacy to the demand for a PLO state in the West Bank and Gaza, and it was in fact Jimmy Carter who first proposed such a state, with the PLO obediently following about a week later, though up to this point the PLO had loudly rejected the idea of a PLO state in the West Bank and Gaza.
In 1978, when Israel tried to defend itself from PLO terrorist attacks coming from the PLO bases in southern Lebanon, vigorous US pressure forced the Israelis to back down.
In 1981, against Israeli objections, Ronald Reagan pushed hard for a PLO state in the West Bank and Gaza.
In 1982-1983 the Reagan administration rushed into Lebanon to protect the PLO from being destroyed by the Israelis, after the Israelis invaded Lebanon once again to protect themselves from PLO attacks against Israeli civilians in the Galilee. The US exerted very strong pressure on the Israelis to back down, and then provided a military safe passage for the PLO so that they could make their new home in Tunis.
In 1985, certain Israeli politicians, following US wishes, tried hard to advance the political interests of the PLO. In the same year, some Italian politicians who, it has now been established, were part of a covert (pro-fascist) CIA effort in Europe, sacrificed their political careers for the sake of advancing the political image of the PLO against Israel. Meanwhile, Ronald Reagan denied the Holocaust. This was not Reagan’s senility: the entire administration was behind the effort.
In 1987-88, the PLO launched the First Intifada in the West Bank and Gaza (though the media pretended it was a “spontaneous uprising”). The US cooperated closely with the effort to blame the First Intifada on supposed Israeli brutality, and to use the accusation as a reason to advance the project to create a PLO state in the West Bank and Gaza.
In 1989, with Dick Cheney leading the charge, the US began supporting a PLO state in the West Bank as supposedly the “only solution” to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
In 1991, a critical year, George Bush Sr.’s administration literally forced the Israelis — with threats — to participate in what became the Oslo so-called ‘peace’ process, the purpose of which was to bring the PLO out from Tunis and into the Jewish state, where it would become the government over the Arab population living in the West Bank and Gaza, from which position the PLO has been indoctrinating these Arabs into Hajj Amin’s genocidal ideology, and murdering any Arabs who disagree, as Hajj Amin also used to do.
In 1994, the same year that Yasser Arafat was given a Nobel Peace Prize (!!), and which saw the debut of the Oslo ‘peace’ process by bringing the PLO into Israel, Bill Clinton’s CIA was training the PLO. This, despite the fact that Arafat’s henchmen were explaining to the Western press, in English, in the same year of 1994, that they would use their CIA training to kill Jews and any Arabs who didn’t like that, in accordance with Hajj Amin’s ideology.
When Yasser Arafat died, the US enthusiastically endorsed his replacement Mahmoud Abbas (alias Abu Mazen), who, like Yasser Arafat, has always shared Hajj Amin’s ideology and therefore wishes to exterminate the Jewish people.
Very soon, the Israeli government, under US pressure, will finish cleansing the Jews out of the West Bank (it has already cleansed them out of Gaza), giving this territory to the antisemitic terrorists who are pledged to destroy the Jewish people. From this position, and backed by Iran, by the Arab states, and by the US (and Europe), it should not be too difficult to mount the next genocide of the Jewish people, assuming that Israeli Jews and the Jews of the Diaspora continue to offer only a weak resistance to the treasonous policies of their own leaders.
Hajj Amin has almost won.
http://www.hirhome.com/logo-HiR.gif
@ yamit82:
Pardon me for hopping into your discussion with dweller, Yam. First I read dweller’s posting, thinking it was yours, and I was pleasantly surpized that you had come around to such an unbiased look at early C. E. Jewish history. Alas, the author was dweller and not you.
When it comes to “idolatry”, I think you understand that I am NOT a Trinitarian (and therefore, in the eyes of nearly all Christians, am not even Christian). I therefore do not idolize Jesus, nor worship him as God. He is called the “son of God” in the NT, along with Adam (Luke 6); and Jesus himself taught Jews of every stripe to address God as THEIR father. He therefore did not consider himself divine, any more than he considered his fellow Pharisees and Sadducees to be divine. You can put aside calling ME an idolater, then, though I am not speaking here for dweller.
Concerning “Oral Torah”, you said,
As you say, there are “myriad” such references; but if they hold no more weight than the illustration you gave, they don’t hold any weight. The Israelites didn’t need an “illustrated Torah” in order to know the pattern with which to make the Mishkan — all the VITAL information was contained in the descriptions spelled out in “Written” Torah. In fact, if the Jewish people would be more concerned with that VITAL information, instead of engaging in endless arguments over minutiae, they would have a much better understanding of our God.
Christians, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jews all acknowledge the very same scriptures, the Hebrew Canon of TaNaKh, as the undisputable foundation of their faith. That is significant, and it sets us collectively apart from every other religion on the planet. Whether you personally realize this or not, God made humankind in the first place, for one express purpose: That we should be God’s suitable companions, just as Eve was a suitable companion for Adam (who was created in God’s image). This requires that we come to KNOW Him. He therefore did not put the knowledge of Him into the hands of the esoteric gossip grapevine you call “Oral Torah”; He had it written down from the very beginning, from the time of its revelation.
The doctrine of most Jews follows Maimonides in ascribing divine authorship to Oral Torah. Most Christians and others do not share this belief, nor do the Karaite Jews (some 45,000 souls, mostly in Israel). The Mormons also have their own doctrines, which only they acknowledge; likewise for all the groups. Evan among Jews, some accept the word of their own rebbes as the Word of God, while others reject it. There is nothing amazing in any of this; we are merely behaving as humans. If and when any of us enters into eternal life, we will have to be quiet as we pass by certain doors; because on the other sides of those doors will be variously groups of Jews, Christians and whatnots who believe that they’re the only ones up there.
Husssssh!
@ CuriousAmerican:
Well they were very pious Lutherans for the most part weren’t they?
I know you can do better than this.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Maybe? Why don’t you ask them?
I say bribes you say compensation but as long as they leave I don’t care what you call it but not on my dime. Old Arabs marry young girls and breed. Your suggestion is rational but not practical.
@ dweller:
“THEY SHALL MAKE ME A MIKDASH and I shall dwell in their midst. AS ALL THAT I SHOW YOU, the form of the Mishkan and the form of all its vessels – so shall you fashion [them]. AND THEY SHALL MAKE AN ARK of shittim wood, two cubits and a half long, and a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high.” (25:8-10)
Ever see an illustrated Torah? None ever existed so additional information was transmitted at Sinai an illustration of how the Mishkan and vessels were supposed to look. There are a myriad of such references and hints throughout the Torah.
How could one vocalize the text of the Torah without vowels? Many words have the same roots and spelling but different meanings, without the oral Torah it would be both impossible to read the Torah and understand it….! Translate the first verse in the Torah ,it is always translated according to the Hebrew which is grammatically incorrect. Every page of the Torah has such grammatical and syntax errors. So either HaShem was a high-school dropout or he was flagging a hidden deeper meaning in the text. Laws of Shabbat, conversion, Kashrut and marriage and divorce are mentioned but no specific instructions in the text on how to do it. So somebody must have been given the information and insight as to how? If you do not accept the revelation narrative of the Jewish people you will not accept the concept of an oral law or it’s inherent divinity.
See: Jewish Oral Law:Talmud, Mishna, & Gemara
Start with the Decalogue.
Wrong the oral tradition was given along with the Torah to the Jews at Sinai. So in essence two torahs were given one textual the other oral. Straight from the “horses mouth”.
[In point of fact most of the Rabbinical injunctions are hinted at in the written Scriptures according to grammatical niceties and quirks of the Hebrew Language. A good portion of the Talmud is dedicated to clarifying the Law according to what the Biblical verses indicate.
Even if this was not so however we would still be obliged to do as the Rabbis say.]
The Oral Law is not an addition to the Divine Words but rather an exposition of them. Rabbis were always careful in making their rulings to distinguish between what was written expressly and what they had learnt through studying the Hebrew expressions employed in Scripture and applying logical constructs. Their aim was always to discern the intention of the written word and to apply it. This is their duty.
To learn and study the Word of the Almighty is what we are commanded to do.
Joshua was commanded:
[Joshua 1:8]THIS BOOK OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH; BUT THOU SHALT MEDITATE THEREIN DAY AND NIGHT, THAT THOU MAYEST OBSERVE TO DO ACCORDING TO ALL THAT IS WRITTEN THEREIN: FOR THEN THOU SHALT MAKE THY WAY PROSPEROUS, AND THEN THOU SHALT HAVE GOOD SUCCESS.
Adding to the commandments would appear to be contrary to a written injunction which says:
The Almighty would NOT have given us commandments if HE did not expect us to keep them.
Judges and Sages were Commanded to Interpret the Bible
Moses was commanded to appoint seventy elders to help him rule over the people (Numbers 11:16).
There also existed a hierarchy of local judges over tens, hundreds, and thousands (Exodus 18:21).
Any case too difficult at one level would be passed on upwards (Exodus 18:26).
As in any legal system over time a body of precedents and legal principles developed telling in detail how the Commandments were to be put into practice.
In case of doubt the Israelites were commanded to go to the authorities and Sages that would exist in their time.
[Deuteronomy 17:8] IF THERE ARISE A MATTER TOO HARD FOR THEE IN JUDGMENT, BETWEEN BLOOD AND BLOOD, BETWEEN PLEA AND PLEA, AND BETWEEN STROKE AND STROKE, BEING MATTERS OF CONTROVERSY WITHIN THY GATES: THEN SHALT THOU ARISE, AND GET THEE UP INTO THE PLACE WHICH THE LORD THY GOD SHALL CHOOSE;
In case of doubt concerning any matter of the Law and its practical implications one had to make an effort (“ARISE”) and go to the recognized authority that existed.
[Deuteronomy 17:9] AND THOU SHALT COME UNTO THE PRIESTS THE LEVITES, AND UNTO THE JUDGE THAT SHALL BE IN THOSE DAYS, AND ENQUIRE; AND THEY SHALL SHEW THEE THE SENTENCE OF JUDGMENT:
The Priests, Levites, and/or simple Israelite Judge, whoever was in charge at the time, would make the decision usually after consultation with the others and in accordance with accepted tradition and well known laws of logical deduction applied to Biblical verses and derived from them. This was the foundation of what later became the Talmud.
[Deuteronomy 17:10] AND THOU SHALT DO ACCORDING TO THE SENTENCE, WHICH THEY OF THAT PLACE WHICH THE LORD SHALL CHOOSE SHALL SHEW THEE; AND THOU SHALT OBSERVE TO DO ACCORDING TO ALL THAT THEY INFORM THEE:
[Deuteronomy 17:11] ACCORDING TO THE SENTENCE OF THE LAW WHICH THEY SHALL TEACH THEE, AND ACCORDING TO THE JUDGMENT WHICH THEY SHALL TELL THEE, THOU SHALT DO: THOU SHALT NOT DECLINE FROM THE SENTENCE WHICH THEY SHALL SHEW THEE, TO THE RIGHT HAND, NOR TO THE LEFT.
Even if one went to the Sages to decide how a commandment should be carried out and did not agree with what the Sages said you still had to obey them. This was the commandment.
[Deuteronomy 17:12] AND THE MAN THAT WILL DO PRESUMPTUOUSLY, AND WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO THE PRIEST THAT STANDETH TO MINISTER THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, OR UNTO THE JUDGE, EVEN THAT MAN SHALL DIE: AND THOU SHALT PUT AWAY THE EVIL FROM ISRAEL.
[Deuteronomy 17:13] AND ALL THE PEOPLE SHALL HEAR, AND FEAR, AND DO NO MORE PRESUMPTUOUSLY.
I’m brushing up reading Revelation in the Bible. I think ‘it’s on’. And by ‘it’s on’I mean the end is coming.
Maybe the Saudis could fund your proposal.
It is not bribes. It is compensation to leave.
Most of the young Palestinians – the breeders – are landless. These are the ones who should be encouraged to leave.
Most of the historic refugees left the Mandate territory to Syria, Lebanon, or Egypt, or Jordan proper.
What an attitude?! I would expect that from a squad leader in an Einsatzgruppe
You are truly full of yourself.
@ yamit82:
It makes an enormous difference.
In the early first century, the oral tradition wasn’t written; unlike as in the case of scripture, there was nothing to refer back to & verify, just tradition & habit.
What’s more, while lots of guys were addressed as “rabbi” or “rabboni,” there wasn’t (yet) anything on the order of formal ordination.
There was no Oral ‘Law’ at that point — only an oral tradition.
In effect, anybody could spout off and claim that what he taught was grounded in the scripture.
No way that this wouldn’t have been vulnerable to the worst abuses
— and it comes as no surprise to THIS Jew that haNitzri would’ve seen that as problematic.
Not at all.
My ‘idol’ doesn’t need my defense.
— Truth be told, I need HIS defense.
I think it’s YOU who are soooo defensive
— of the Oral Law.
Maybe you don’t need to be “so precise,” with me.
Or even with either of us. (Then again, maybe you DO have to.)
But, in any case, and as I’ve had occasion to remind you (many times), nobody who posts here — or anywhere else — speaks only to his specific correspondent.
You simply cannot assume that nobody else is reading what you write. And THEY might well need for you to be precise.
They think they HAVE to reject it outright because
A. by & large, most of them are unaware of the important distinction in time (betw Oral tradition & codified Oral Law) that I just alluded to; AND because
B. even the codified Oral Law is (unlike Scripture) not revelation, direct from the Horse’s Mouth — but only the ruminations of fallible men; sometimes quite profound, but also sometimes little more than bubbe meises — not something to (reliably & consistently) hang one’s hat on.
Should THEY treat their own (Christian) commentaries, expository writings, etc, like scripture? Should they give THAT the same kind of weight?
Identify what part they ‘reject.’
It is even crazier. ‘Normal’ refugees by UN definition are people who have fled outside their country. However, most Palestinians never left the Palestine Mandate territory, but stayed in Gaza, Westbank or Jordan. So they are not refugees by the regular definition.
@ yamit82:
I think you’re getting close here, Yam. Actually, UNWRA is good for America — it keeps the Pals in your end of the world instead of ours. Take away their free UN lunch, and where do you think they’ll go? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Try Montreal and Dearborn. I know it’s protection money, but maybe it’s worth it. IF we de-funded UNWRA AND stopped Pal immigration, I would love to see the fallout in Londonistan, Oslostan, etc. Oops — sorry, I was supposed to feel sorry for the Europeans. Europe has gotten into such a habit of blaming the Jews when the Jews were not at fault. Let them go on blaming the Jews, while the Muslims in their midst rip their hearts out. It will be poetic justice. Oops — sorry, I was supposed to feel sorry for the Europeans. Oh well. Honestly, I usually don’t kill the spiders in my house, because they are useful for killing other bugs. But the Arabs of Palestine? I confess that I care more for the spiders.
I just had an idea — Why not resettle all the displaced Arabs, plus their great-great-great grandchildren, in Afghanistan? they could fit right in there with the Pashtuns, Nuristanis, Hazaras, Turkmens, Tadjiks and Uzbeks. It would be like the gingham dog and the calico cat! Oops — we’re bugging out of Afghanistan. What a missed opportunity!
Let’s see you want us to provide each AARAB 100k plus 20K in bribes?
Who gets their property left behind or do you think we should pay for that over the 120K per AARAB? Some Arabs have multiple wives and many children with each wife that could total over a million per family. Tell you what, pay most Jews that kind of money and most would leave. 😛
How is this suggestion: 1- 9mm bullet costs less than a dollar that could work out to be less than $30 for taking care of most families.
An Israeli Government willing to ethnically cleanse up to a half million Jews from Y&S could just as easily ethnically cleanse up to 1.5 million AARABS.
Those that cheer screwing the Jews including the Jews; I have only disdain and contempt and their opinions only push me to do the very thing that they oppose. Screw the AARABS, they are really undeserving of moral or human considerations otherwise you wouldn’t need them to be sent to S. America in order to rob them and convert them to you idolatrous faith.
Since you don’t have the cojones to try to convert them here you want us to do your dirty work for you and pay for the privilege to see them enrich you missionaries financially and add converts to your cult.
You present a case that it’s really in our interest to do so and hide your real agenda. Coverts and money, not necessarily in that order.
You are a conman Curious and most Jews here are too ignorant and obtuse to see you for who and what you are. I’m not fooled.
@ dweller:
Sorry should have written oral Law that was later codified in the Talmud. I didn’t think I needed to be so precise with either of you? I guess I was mistaken. You are soooo defensive of your NT and your idol.
Point was oral law and not Talmud. Christians reject oral law as they do most of the Tanach. Just pointing out an obvious contradiction one of thousands that render said works and beliefs by definition un-divine. Personally I find the Iliad more credible.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Of course he does.
But I was referring specifically to the holding in your line, that
“He obeyed the Law on our behalf. He took on himself our sin; and gives us His righteousness in return.”
I maintain that this was his concession to his audience, because he knew that, given the cultural milieu he was operating in, that that audience wouldn’t otherwise be able to handle the notion that Jesus’ death was necessary.
Yet the truth is that not only is there nothing ‘Jewish’ about punishing the innocent for the wrongs of the guilty.
— But there is nothing ‘Christian’ in it either.
Put yourself in Paul’s shoes, Curio. He does more than state the core of the Gospel.
Sometimes, for example, he very gently & circumspectly tells his audience in not so many words that some of their ‘gifts’ (glossolalia & the like) are really less of faith than of superstition.
He treads lightly, because he isn’t insensitive to his surroundings.
Paul states the core of the Gospel.
@ CuriousAmerican:
The standard Pauline rendering is suspect, Curious, when taken on its face.
Saul of Tarsus knew Jewish law & tradition — and better than virtually anybody else of his era, he would’ve KNOWN that there was no such concept (substitution, vicarious atonement, etc) in Jewish civilization.
However, these ideas were, in fact, not at all outlandish in the pagan world to which he was taking his ministry.
I suggest to you, with all due respect, that this was his way of ingratiating himself with — & creating a foothold within — the gentile universe; i.e., of making the rest of his message palatable by piggy-backing it onto the substitutionary atonement proposition (which already had a home there, in one form or another).
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying Jesus’ death was “not necessary” — it most certainly WAS (most absolutely was) necessary.
— But not because the Father had to be ‘propitiated.’
Rather because that was how he would tempt the Devil (even as the latter tempts man); would tempt the latter to take unto his abode the one soul to which he had no lawful right.
There is simply NOTHING ‘Jewish’ about punishing the innocent for the wrongs of the guilty (indeed it is arguably contra-Jewish),
and the peripatetic Nazarene was the quintessential — and consummate
Jew.
@ CuriousAmerican:
You’d also have to provide each such Arab — until he/she was out of the country — with a phalanx of bodyguards to keep them from being killed by PLO thugs for ‘treason’ to the Paly cause.
And if they did escape, then any remaining relatives (and all the Palis are organized as clans) would be in danger henceforth.
@ yamit82:
Not so, Yamit.
Talmud wasn’t codified in Jesus’ time.
Neither the Bavli nor the Yerushalmi was even written till hundreds of years later.
In Christ’s day, the oral tradition was — quite literally — oral; he denounced those who bent the revealed law & effectively put their own in place of it.
Yehudah haNasi didn’t assemble the 6 codices of Mishnah till a couple centuries after Jesus.
Let’s see if we can reason this out together.
Who would be the primary beneficiary of a pacified and cleansed Judea and Samaria free for their settlement in peace without contest? Who would be the primary beneficiaries? Who would be the ones free to settle in peace Judea and Samaria, as they wish, without trouble or contest?
Would it be the Koreans? The Swedish? The English? The Maori of New Zealand? Would the Maori be the beneficiaries who would get to settle Judea and Samaria in peace? Would the Hmong people of Laos be the beneficiaries who would be free to settle in Judea and Samaria?
Who would the primary beneficiary of a Judea and Samaria that is emptier than it is now?!
The chief beneficiaries should pay the lion’s share; precisely since they would BE the chief beneficiaries.
Now, if you can the Saudis to chip in, that would be marvellous. Or the Syrians, even better. And if you can get the Martians to chip in that would be the best of all, AND THE LEAST UNLIKELY.
But if the chief beneficiaries don’t pay, nothing will get done and these chief beneficiaries will still be asking why they can’t settle Judea and Samaria 11 years from now on Israel’s 75th birthday.
CuriousAmerican Said:
hmmmmm
verrrrry interesting…
who is “we”, in the quoted statement?
What he meant was to do as Moses taught, NOT as the Oral Law taught. Jesus did not hold the Oral Law binding. He condemned the traditions of men.
After he died – and paid for our sins – the Law was no longer effective. This is Christianity. The Torah was given as stopgap measure until Christ came. The Law was NOT bad, but it was fulfilled in Christ who obeyed the Law because we humans, being sinful, could not.
He obeyed the Law on our behalf. He took on himself our sin; and give us His righteousness in return. A very good exchange.
Beyond that, I do not think Mr. Belman intended this to be a board where Christian theology is debated.
You would have go to give each Arab in Judea and Samaria about $80-100,000 each to leave from Judea and Samaria with documents to leave.
Where would those documents come from?
We would give South American governments cash around $20,000 per individual for each Arab they let in.
$20,000 is about twice the per capita income of these South American countries.
South America would get cash, and immigrants coming in with cash.
A famiy of 4 would bring about $320,000 into South America with the own cash given them, and the country would get an additional $80,000 directly to the Central government in return for giving them residency.
$320,000, in South America, would buy them a car, a house, and a business to sustain themselves. A house can be bought for $70,000. A nice car for $25,000. That leave $200,000 for purchase taxes and to set up a business. It is equivalent for about 2+ years of per capita income.
The added infusion of money would start a boom in South America.
Now, believe it or not, South America has a history of converting Muslims.
That is the rough idea in a nutshell.
@ CuriousAmerican:
You are right I don’t give a damn about Arabs. They are enemies and every one would see me dead if they could manage it and it matters not if they are Christian or Muslim. My religion is practical not idealistic. It says when someone is about to kill us to rise up and kill them first.
A Jewish proverb says “don’t rejoice at the fall of our enemies but don’t rush to help them up either”
Judaism is practical while Christianity – idealistic. Judaism is based on negative reciprocity, Do not do unto your neighbor what is hateful to you. Christianity enhanced that rule just a bit, and made it impractical. Positive reciprocity, Treat your neighbor as yourself, especially when neighbor means everyone, is unworkable especially with regards to enemies who want to destroy you. Good Christians killed good Jews out of love for the fellow Christians. Love everyone is too vague to be practiced.
Christians ignore the fact that when jesus told the crowd to do as the Pharisees teach, and that included the Oral Law codified in Talmud. 😉
Curious
A- Don’t believe Arabs.
B- Even if true so there is one schmuck who got the short hair. Maybe there are 2-3 more like him so what. You can’t biold a case on pathological liars or just a few real cases.
The so called refugees are an internal arab affair not ours or yours, but if you want to help get your government to issue them visas.
Do you know how many engineers are out of work on EU countries and America?
I don’t care.
Yup. Lice or rats!!
I’m not upset in the end they will be as or greater a threat to America than us.
I am upset that America is more concerned with the pali scum than with Iran who is an existential threat to America or will be soon.
I am upset that America is doing all in her power to prevent Israel attacking Iran and her I put as much blame on Bush as Obama. The consequences if Iran is successful is a lot of dead Jews so I am angry about that but grant America does not owe us zilch and from me I don’t demand or expect anything good from America. I am really angry at BB and Barak for letting it happen. words that come to mind are cowardice and treason.
This inconsistency I find amazing!
You probably consider me vermin, too.
yamit82 Said:
very accurate description of all participants with an economy of words.
i marvel at fleisher’s ability to remain cool and continue to explain the facts of life to the idiot and the vermin.
incidentally, it was baker whom i found to be the most irritating in this panel discussion as he epitomizes the diplomat, the ‘sophisticated thinker’, the one who would not dirty his manicured hands….and idiots like him, whether knowingly or unknowingly are pushing israel towards the cliff….
the fat guy…as you said (and yosemite sam would agree) – varmint!
@ CuriousAmerican:
There is no such thing as generational refugees. There is the generation of the actual refugees and they are considered refugees until they are assimilated either back home or another country. There is no ethnic cultural and for most religious difference between pali so called refugees and the countries that house them. If they have a quarrel let them duke it out with their brother and sister arabs. UNRWA was the only refugee organization created just for the Arab slimes. Why do the arab slimes deserve to have their own private refugee service? There are millions of more deserving refugees in the world who are real refugees and they don’t gt to have a private service who take care of all their needs. Apparently for most palis they like the arrangement. Most have built luxury villas housing whole clans have cars tv’s compuers, some travel abroad some are professionals and academics but all are cared for by the UN or 40% by the American tax payer.
UNWRA would not exist if America didn’t want it to, since most of the funding comes from America and AID. The Arabs and the Nations of the world actually want the refugees to exist otherwise they wouldn’t.
@ Samuel Fistel:
You seem to have nailed all the relevant points.
@ Ted Belman:
Panel is Alan Baker, Ishai Fliesher and a Christian Arab from Jerusalem with a Russian name? I think Baker is an Idiot, Feisher puts Baker in his place and the Arab is self defining. Vermin calls Kassams just plumbing pipes that don’t kill anybody. Fox reporter not bad for a change.
Middle East Panel – One State or Two? Host Leland Vittert – Fox News Live
UNRWA: So bad it’s good?
Jewish Israel is now 64 years old, and the muslim arab / Jewish Israeli conflict is (wait for it) 64 years old.
Happily for Jewish Israel, the Jew-hating, atheist liberals cannot figure out that the conflict at its core is a religious one; and that islam can never accept a muslim defeat at the hands of the vile Jews in the heart of the “arab middle east”. So, as long as muslims do not reject or modify islam, and continue to insist that islam is not only the whole truth, but the only truth, they will never accept Jewish Israel.
Islam forbids the palestinians from giving up their claim to the Old City of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. And as Jewish Israel becomes more religious (and more right-wing), there is little chance Jewish Israel will ever surrender its own claim to the Temple Mount. (The muslims would prefer that Jerusalem be nuked rather than Jewish Israel have it. After all, if Jerusalem (as opposed to Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia) ceased to exist, islam would not be greatly affected.)
When the palestinians made “the right of return” into a sacred object, they once again rendered a rational resolution of the conflict impossible. After 64 years, there are maybe 100,000 of the original refugees left alive, a number that might be handled by Jewish Israel with money and/or physical return. But luckily, the Jew-haters in UNRWA extended the right of return to all descendants (through the male line) of the original refugees. This creates a huge number that Jewish Israel can never accept, and the muslims can never renounce.
So because of the insanity and delusions of the muslims, UNRWA, and the liberals, Jewish Israel has been given time, and time is on its side (the hidden Hand of HaShem?).
It would appear that legislation is being worked on to lessen the number of Palestinian “refugees”. Why bother? Why not Do away with UNRWA entirely.
I think the ideal solution to the Palestinians is a big can of Raid. A similar solution worked with malaria before DDT was banned.
CuriousAmerican Said:
no argument there.
btw, france’s recent riots, car burnings and violence, were not caused by (for convenience sake ONLY)’palestinians’ but by 2nd generation muslim immigrants ( you know, unemployed youts)…so according to you, in order to prevent violence we must give in to the demands of these musloids…
tell you what.
let’s REALLY go to the root of the problem, and this is not the so called governments, but THE TEACHINGS OF THE KKKORAN AND THE HAD DEATHS!
you do understand, that these bastards unfortunately are brainwashed from the moment they were born that they must fight the infidel, and that the biggest enemy of their accursed cult are the jooooooooooooooooooos!
once you get your head around that, you realize that it is very very simple.
it is a clash of civilizations in a zero sum game. i do not want to lose this fight and hence my video-clip reply.
CuriousAmerican Said:
well, i NEVER said that i expect the world to care about me (the jew) they never did, do not and will not.
i will not rehash again 1001 examples of that. you know them as well as i do.CuriousAmerican Said:
well, well, well.
once again. it is the kkkoran, american!
internalize this!
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/65397/Doctors-plotted-to-kill-hundreds-in-car-bombs
http://pakteahouse.net/2012/02/20/radicalism-and-engineers/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/07/british-terror-probe-focuses-on-doctors.html
…..
so what was that again, american, you were saying about musloids wanting to better themselves?
ah!
if by that you mean, follow the instructions to kill infidels and smite them at the neck wherever you find them, then, yes, they are definitely doing all they can to better themselves….. sarc/offCuriousAmerican Said:
you are extrapolating here, american. you happen to be right but for the wrong reasons. if you guys were smart (well, you let in a musloid bastard, literally and figuratively, into the w.h…. so i’m not so sure about that… but anyways,) you would create the largest parking lot in the world over what once used to be ‘iran’. it would be for YOUR OWN SECURITY!!! but the fact that the jewish state might benefit from this as well is enough for the largest collection of antisemites working at the hate department, under hitlery et al to not pursue this.
ok. gezundheit. continue to be politically correct and to bow to islam (the sob hussein, already did!)CuriousAmerican Said:
nope!
definitely not.
just irritatingly misguided and naive.
p.s yoju still haven’t answered my question (in another post) how would that south america solution of yours work….:)
You are not addressing the points. Whether the Arab governments are effective, honest, corrupt, inefficient, they are sadly recognized by the world. If you prefer – and to turn a coin on its side – we could call them “the Muslim entities.”
The point is: These are the problems, not the Palestinian refugees.
They do not cease to exist – though you would like that – just because you do not like their name. I can’t call them Judean and Samarian Arab, since most do not live in Judea and Samaria. I can’t call them Israeli Arabs since you refuse to recognize the right of return (I am NOT saying you should accept it) and they don’t live in what the world calls “Israel proper.”
I cannot call them Lebanese-, Egyptian-, or Syrian- Arabs, since these countries refuse to naturalize them or issue them passports. For convenience, and because no other name is available at this time, I call them Palestinians.
I know they don’t exist … but inspite of there non-existence, there are 400,000 of them in Lebanon alone. They have weight, mass, occupy space, and when frustrated enough, get violent and kill people.
According to the video you posted, you do not give a da*n; why do you expect the world to care about you?
As for bettering themselves, many get college degrees, even become doctors … YET, cannot find work. Gets to be frustrating. People give up under those circumstances when they are prohibited from working or the professions.
Palestinian Surgeon who worked to become a doctor
but was prohibited from working in Lebanon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-2YGAInH5o
So I do not think your comment, “good for nothing musloids with no intention to better themselves,” makes sense.
Many of them become Engineers, and then can’t get a job anywhere.
I know you don’t care. These people are vermin to you. But you seem upset that the USA does not care enough about Israel to attack Iran.
This inconsistency I find amazing!
You probably consider me vermin, too.
@ CuriousAmerican:
american! you have indeed a curious way of understanding (NOT!) things. allow me to be of help. your entire post is full of errors and the only correct part is “: The Arab governments have almost never donated to UNRWA”.
let us go over your errors:
“And when UNRWA is defunded do you think the Arab governments will come to their senses and naturalize the Palestinians?”
you DO understand that there is no such thing as a “palesstinian” right?
“arab governments” that points to a mild sense of humour on your part. “arab governments”??? excuse me?
ALL MUSLOIDS are governed by a dictatorship whether secular (sadam, Mubarak, the sodi king and minions etc) OR a religious theocracy (iran?) so you DO see that it is futile to talk about ‘governments’ as if we are talking about a Jeffersonian democracy…
SO!
you say the problem is these, so called governments…not unrwa…
i happen to agree entirely with the words that you have put into yamit’s mouth.
you see american, the filthy rich sand kingdom, contributed practically zippo when pakistan was hit by the flood. (!!!) some wild eyed tree hugger idiot came knocking on my door asking if i wanted to contribute to the floods in pakistan…i told him that i would LOVE to, but my garden hose only reaches to the end of the driveway…
so to answer the hypothetical question of what shall we do about these…2nd, 3rd generation of good for nothing musloids with no intention to better themselves…
here is my answer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnTWxpTQt4
And when UNRWA is defunded do you think the Arab governments will come to their senses and naturalize the Palestinians?
Or do you think the Arab governments will let them starve and die from lack of medical care, until the Palestinians are desperate enough to resume jihad?
Hint: The Arab governments have almost never donated to UNRWA.
UNRWA is not the problem. The Arab governments are.
This is treating the symptom NOT the problem.
So yamit82 does not give me his standard answer:
Typical Yamit answer: KILL THEM ALL. WE DON’T CARE. The Euphrates to the Nile. Rav Kahane was right. You are an anti-semite. If a million die, it is a mitzvah. Drive them into the desert without water. We should have killed them 3,000 years ago.
So please yamit, now that we have paraphrased your usual answers, you are free to answer the issue without your usual bile.