Netanyahu Vows: ‘Hamas Will Pay’ for Boys’ Murder
Anger and Grief as Israeli Leaders React to Teens’ Triple Murder
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Menu There is no diplomatic solutionIsrael should declare three nos;
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
@ yamit82:
He commanded THAT SPECIFIC GENERATION of Israel to annihilate every soul of the Seven Nations. There were other non-Israelite inhabitants in the Land, however, BESIDES the Seven Nations. (For example, the Philistines.)
The “by-doing-so” part is false. That little ’cause-&-effect’ interpolation not in there.
What’s more, Rashi notes, at that point in the text, that “[… their security will be so sound, that] they will have no need to live together in one group, because of the enemy.”
C’mon, boychik, don’t hand me that old chestnut. You don’t know it for yourself. You spout that line only because it’s a favorite recourse of supposedly wise & pious types; but you don’t know it for yourself.
In addressing Avram [Gen 17:1], He called Himself “Almighty God.” That sounds like a description of His essence to me — not very intricate, I’ll grant you, but a description all-the-same — and He didn’t seem too shy about using it.
If that’s a problem for you, take it up with Rashi. It was he who quoted the Zohar. And it was you who quoted HIM, in Sanh. 38b, as saying, “This is [the angel] Metatron, whose name is like the name of his Master [(El) Shaddai].” There is no other possible conclusion: One’s name is his essence.
I don’t forcibly do ANYTHING where belief is concerned. There are no Thought Police on MY side of the barricades.
No, no, no. You miss the point; again. What I was saying was that what animates your beliefs is not conviction but partisanship. You believe NOT what an open-hearted trust in the truth LEADS you to believe, but what you think you’re “supposed” to believe — as a matter of fealty.
That doesn’t sound like self-worship to you?
@ yamit82:
Well, it was YOU, not me, who introduced the terms “lawless” & “weak” into the discussion. . . .
Sometimes it is; sometimes it isn’t.
Never been a wannabee of any sort
— a fact which always enraged the actual wannabees; and which invariably perplexed the alreadybees.
If I thought it were important to show you what supports them, I’d go to the trouble; I’ve done so before, Yamit, numerous times. The truth is, however, that the Source of those beliefs is much more DIRECT than the words on a printed page. Yet you find that inconceivable; so, what would be the point?
Don’t think you do much laughing these days, pancho.
This is non-germane, an immaterial diversion.
You still haven’t answered the question created by your OWN assertion that Samson was “granted Divine assistance when he seeks vengeance against the Philistines for the loss of his eyes.”
@ yamit82:
When haShem COMMANDS an action, it is not vengeance as to His human instruments.
So far, and despite a strenuous effort on your part, you have YET to show an instance where vengeance of a strictly personal or strictly tribal nature was a “Jewish obligation.”
Numerology is an occasionally absorbing (and occasionally tiresome & pedantic) sideshow.
I mentioned it here ONLY because it was clear that when you hauled Rashi out of the crypt — to show how he (purportedly) ‘differed’ from my “christian inane dwellerism” [see above] — that in point of fact Rashi was actually AGREEING with me that one’s name is his essence
— and to show that even Rashi’s reading of the ZOHAR (which you had conveniently omitted from your excerpt when you quoted Rashi) CONFIRMED his agreement that the name of someone (in this case, God) not only identifies him but also bespeaks his character or essence .
yamit82 Said:
Whatch it Boy or no Coconut Creame Pie for you. Now I’m going to lay my weary backside down.
@ yamit82:
This morning just after I posted the above I went for my morning walk. “Day light was wasting” so I left without breakfast or water. I was so proud of myself, walked father and fast then I had in a long time. I came home and broke out in a cold sweat, sat down a minute to e-mail my friend in OR. Next thing I knew I was on the floor passed out cold. A friend was able to contact TX at the Y and he came home and “carried” me off to the ER. They took X rays and test and sent me home with a sling [for comfort] and admonishments to eat. I have a lump on my forehead and the right side of my face is bruised, battered, and red. So what I need from every body is a Great story to explain all of this. I was think perhaps a sword battle with Fenrir [ Google it dweller]
honeybee Said:
If only they learned to cook!! 😉
I used to own a Volvo and a Saab Both great cars. So the Vikings must have done something good besides producing you as Spawn.
dweller Said:
That attributions were accorded to Hashem does not in truth mean that Hashem was responsible in anyway. Jews are only required to obey the commandments and do what is expected of them. In doing so one might expect positive results with or without divine participation. Following explicit instructions usually results in positive outcomes.
I think I have in other post given you enough references to support my position on vengeance. All you have done in many words is to say it ain’t so…. I base my positions on Jewish sources and you on dwellerisms with a strong yeshu flavor.
Invidious????? How so???
Duh!! Who told you that?
The Torah is the same torah!!! The commandments are the same commandments!!! We believe every word and concept to be as relevant and binding upon us today as it was 33350 years ago.
They had 40 years to shed their slave mentality and fought many wars before entering the land. THEY HAD 40 YEARS TO LEARN THE TORAH AND TO DEVELOP NATIONAL INSTITUTIONS AS PER THE FORMULATIONS AND DIRECTIVES CONTAINED IN THE LAW.
DON’T BUY YOUR UNSUPPORTED ASSUMPTIONS.
I understand why you have problems with our Jewish national revelation and national narrative it screws up your yesu beliefs narrative. Tough shit!!!
The Sanhedrin and the Rabbis may have softened the application of the law by creative interpolations but the principles have never changed a lot like the High Cout in America and the constitution but we have close to 3000 years where very little difference exists today than 3000 years go re: Halachic understanding and application.
If as you seem to view Judaism as just a body of ethics to pick and choose from then we could just as easily become like Buddhism or god forbid chritianity.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.”
Seems to me you have a serious problem with Yeshayahu. Then all you christians do.
I agree most who claim to be Jews are problematic but then I would question whether they are real Jews. (not to open a new discussion). A real Jew is one who not only says he is but acts as a Jew according to what the Tanach demands.
As Kahane said: “George Bush or the Burning Bush”. Who is more authoritative for a Jew? Who should be feared?
I love Nachshon, Pinchas, Calev, Joshua Bin Nun and Yiftach. Great Jews every one.
Who do you Love besides yeshu and saul of tarshit???
yamit82 Said:
Half my ancestor were Vikings vengeance, revenge, retaliation, and retribution, never a problem.
dweller Said:
Allows for revenge amongst Jews in some cases like manslaughter but proscribes vengeance within the Jewish communities and tribes. This did not apply to enemies and gentiles where it was not only allowed but commanded in some cases.
Unless you wish to accept everything in the Zohar as Holy Writ why accept this one example of numerology and not all the others which conflict with your beliefs???? The Zohar also predicts a final war between christians and Mulims who will destroy each other. Are you on board with that to???
Rubbish, depends what one considers lawless or weak….
Jews have always separated application of halacha between laws governing Jewish behavior towards fellow Jews and gentiles. The torah is clear except for you Jewish wannabees christians and some apostate Jews.
If you can’t base your beliefs and interpretation on acceptable Halachic sources or Posec, then it’s me who is ROFLMAO. 🙂
Where does it say your yeshu was the real Jewish awaited Messiah?
G-d commanded Israel to annihilate every soul of the inhabitants of the land. By doing so, “Israel shall dwell securely, alone”. True or false???
The torah was given to the Jewish people for the Jewish people,it would be presumptuous to extend it’s commandments to non Jews especially those related to the Laws of the Land, the Temple all of the national commandments and most personal ones apply only to the Jewish people living a national and religious existence in the Land of Israel.
The true essence of the Jewish G-d is so transcendent that it cannot be described, except with reference to what it is not. This evoked my criticism to your “for My Name [i.e., My character & purpose] is within him.”
While I view Kabbalah as mostly nonsense, it’s Jewish nonsense, and the study of anything Jewish, even nonsense, is worthwhile.
Metatrom is ex-biblical Pseudepigrapha and I consider it on par with Homer… Rashi may have used it but I’m not convinced even he was serious.
Gentiles are under the 7 laws of Noah….which are incorporated into the 613 commandments of the Torah.
The problem with you christians is you have forcibly tried to graft your beliefs into Judaism and it’s like round pegs square holes no fit.
‘
I ain’t no yeshu believer and I admit to being ‘PARTISAN’, but a believer???? What am I supposed to not believe in???
This is what I believe!!!!
When thou shalt beget children, and children’s children, and ye shall have been long in the land, and shall deal corruptly, and make a graven image, even the form of any thing, and shall do that which is evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke Him;
26
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over the Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27
And the LORD shall scatter you among the peoples, and ye shall be left few in number among the nations, whither the LORD shall lead you away.
28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29
But from thence ye will seek the LORD thy God; and thou shalt find Him, if thou search after Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30
In thy distress, when all these things are come upon thee, in the end of days, thou wilt return to the LORD thy God, and hearken unto His voice;
31
for the LORD thy God is a merciful God; He will not fail thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which He swore unto them.
What Honey!!!!!
@ yamit82:
Nothing in your assertion — nor in any other part of this post of yours — refutes (or even contradicts) anything I said about vengeance belonging to God alone. The whole post is aimless and off-point.
Your comparison is absurd and invidious.
Modern Israel is not post-Exodic Israel.
The generation that entered the Land w/ Joshua were the children of a slave people of several hundred years cultivation. They’d had, as yet, no experience as a free people (or even as a people at all). The existing Canaanite inhabitants were not merely a physical threat but more importantly, in view of their advanced state of corruption, a spiritual snare.
When you plant a garden, you have to take special care to remove any weeds that may deprive your special seedlings of needed water & nourishment. Once your plants are strong, however, they will be more than capable of providing for their own sustenance, given less stringent nurture.
The attempt to make a comparison to the Jews of today’s Israel is ridiculous
— as is your implicit prescription for annihilating the Palis.
@ dweller:
(Isaiah 48:22), “The L-rd says to the wicked, ‘There is no peace.'”
Who won the “covenant of peace,” the everlasting reward of peace, if not Pinchas? Pinchas acted zealously on G-d’s behalf, taking G-d’s revenge, and becoming the first mashuach milchamah, or kohen anointed to lead the nation in war (Deut. 20:2-4). Yet G-d said (Num. 25:12), “Tell him that I have given him My covenant of PEACE.”
@ yamit82:
Neither inane, nor exclusively christian — nor (for that matter) particularly dwellerist.
The name of somebody or something has ALWAYS been understood to express something of the essence or character of the thing or person named. “To have a good name” means to have a good reputation in the community. To act “in the name of” something or somebody is to proceed with the blessing or authority of that person or entity.
The verse above says The Almighty intends for His angel to be obeyed because he represents God Himself. In effect, ‘Do what he directs you to do; think of him the way you think of Me.’
You left off the rest of it:
“The numerical value of 314, Metatron, equals that of Shaddai (“Almighty”), [314]. -[From Tikunei Zohar 66b]”
He is the angel who guarded/guards the Tree of Life, and his name communicates the ower of the Almighty. That is his character; that is his essence, his purpose. So? — even the numerical assignment of the letters of his name confirm that.
Nothing of this contradicts anything I’ve written. Yet you just can’t help trying to pose a non-existent division here.
Because you aren’t a believer, Yamit (no, not even of Judaism)
— rather, you are a PARTISAN. And that’s a bite of a whole different bagel
altogether.
dweller Said:
The G-d of Israel, the G-d of the Jews is a G-d of War!!!!
The Torah tells us Jews how to conduct war, wars of conquest of the Land of Israel and wars of expansion beyond those borders.
Devarim – Deuteronomy – Chapter 20
1. When you go out to war against your enemies, and you see horse and chariot, a people more numerous than you, you shall not be afraid of them, for the Lord, your God is with you Who brought you up out of the land of Egypt.
2. And it will be, when you approach the battle, that the kohen shall come near, and speak to the people.
3. And he shall say to them, “Hear, O Israel, today you are approaching the battle against your enemies. Let your hearts not be faint; you shall not be afraid, and you shall not be alarmed, and you shall not be terrified because of them.
4. For the Lord, your God, is the One Who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you
5. And the officers shall speak to the people, saying, What man is there who has built a new house and has not [yet] inaugurated it? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the war, and another man inaugurate it.
6. And what man is there who has planted a vineyard, and has not [yet] redeemed it? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the war, and another man redeem it.
7. And what man is there who has betrothed a woman and has not [yet] taken her? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the war, and another man take her.”
8. And the officers shall continue to speak to the people and say, “What man is there who is fearful and fainthearted? Let him go and return to his house, that he should not cause the heart of his brothers to melt, as his heart.”
9. And it shall be, that when the officials finish speaking to the people, they shall appoint officers of the legions at the edges of the people
10. When you approach a city to wage war against it, you shall propose peace to it.
11. And it will be, if it responds to you with peace, and it opens up to you, then it will be, [that] all the people found therein shall become tributary to you, and they shall serve you.
12. But if it does not make peace with you, and it wages war against you, you shall besiege it,
13. and the Lord, your God, will deliver it into your hands, and you shall strike all its males with the edge of the sword.
14. However, the women, the children, and the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoils you shall take for yourself, and you shall eat the spoils of your enemies, which the Lord, your God, has given you.
15. Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16. However, of these peoples’ cities, which the Lord, your God, gives you as an inheritance, you shall not allow any soul to live.
17. Rather, you shall utterly destroy them: The Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivvites, and the Jebusites, as the Lord, your God, has commanded you.
18. So that they should not teach you to act according to all their abominations that they have done for their gods, whereby you would sin against the Lord, your God.
19. When you besiege a city for many days to wage war against it to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them, for you may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down. Is the tree of the field a man, to go into the siege before you?
20. However, a tree you know is not a food tree, you may destroy and cut down, and you shall build bulwarks against the city that makes war with you, until its submission.
How different from your screed of yeshu. 😛
dweller Said:
Jews always attribute everything to G-d both god and bad. If Jews are successful and victorius it is the work of G-d and conversely if we are not successful and defeated we are being punished by G-d.
A Jew who fears the non-Jew, shows that he questions G-d’s ability to help His people. It is doubtful whether he completely believes in G-d as an Omnipotent Supreme Power.
Following is Or HaChaim (Ibid.): “Israel shall thus dwell securely”: When? When they are alone. “They shall dwell” naturally follows “He shall proclaim, ‘Destroy!’” G-d commanded Israel to annihilate every soul of the inhabitants of the land. By doing so, “Israel shall dwell securely, alone”.
Ancient Israel did not obey the divine command to drive out and annihilate all of the Canaanite Tribes and suffered the tragic consequences. Modern Israel is following in that tradition
@ yamit82:
If one lives in a lawless society, there is NO social order to preserve. That’s the whole point.
Yes; “allows for” the fact that revenge happens. The Torah does not PRESCRIBE it.
It ALLOWED for slavery too. Not because it approved it, but because it recognized that the institution had a life of its own, an ultimate coming-to-fruition of sin in the world — and could not simply be wished away; that it were best to contain it, to keep its inescapable social reality IN BOUNDS as best as could be done.
Precisely. This is containment of revenge.
— Not advocacy of it.
So you should be ABLE to usurp the prerogatives of haShem when dealing with goyim
— but NOT be able to usurp them when dealing with Jews? — ROFLMAO.
If anger or hatred truly aren’t motivating factors, then it isn’t revenge you’re talking about.
Thank you for letting the sages make my case. The Defense rests.
@ yamit82:
There’s too much ambiguity in the text. Even the sages are confused and uncertain over it — a lot less certain than Rabbi Michael Leo Samuel (whose remarks you lifted and/or paraphrased). What IS clear is that David took his perplexity over the famine directly to the Almighty for guidance & understanding.
What’s more, when David asks for guidance, although he is told what caused the 3-yr famine, he ISN’T told what to do about it NOW.
So says Rabbi Samuel. But that’s not what the scripture says. The text makes no further mention of the famine — but that does not SAY the famine ended because of what David did (or permitted). Doesn’t even say it ended; it’s just silent thereafter. Assuming it DID end, we don’t know that the punishment was ended after 3 yrs anyway.
These are judicial executions — not to be compared to vengeance.
@ yamit82:
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but only haNitzri HIMSELF gets to make that call
— and you are not he.
THEY WERE GIVEN A DIRECT COMMAND — MOEOVER, A COMMAND TO CARRY OUT THE VENGEANCE OF THE MOST HIGH.
When YOU are given such a direct order to execute His vengeance, come back & see me about your proposition. Right now, you’re simply salivating at the prospect of playing at being Him, nothing more — and we both know it, bubbeleh.
And where does it say Samson was in fact STRENGTHENED in response to his request (beyond what he would have otherwise been capable of at this point? It says he ASKED for it, but that’s all it says.
Not exactly their finest hour. This is your evidence that vengeance is a “Jewish obligation”??? — Vey iz mir. (And if you think it was ‘really’ about preventing intermarriage, you probably ALSO think the best way to deal with a hangnail is amputation of the arm.)
Quite so. And whose case are you trying to make here — yours or MINE?
dweller Said:
for My Name [i.e., My character & purpose] is within him.”
More christian inane dwellerisms???? 🙂
http://www.sefaria.org/sheets/1725?embed=1?embed=1
http://www.sefaria.org/Exodus.23.20-21
dweller Said:
Well christian, I bring your attention to:
“The Torah strictly warns us against taking revenge: “Don’t take vengeance and don’t bear a grudge against the members of your nation (the Jews); love your (Jewish)neighbor as yourself”. (Leviticus 19:18.) I don’t believe non Jews especially enemies of the Jews are included in the prohibitions of (Leviticus 19:18). Some cases cases in the Tanach where we find that vengeance is proper:
After Jacob died, the brothers feared that Joseph would exact vengeance upon them for having mistreating him in the past. They come up with a ruse, “‘You shall say to Joseph, Jacob begs you to forgive the criminal wrongdoing of your brothers, who treated you so cruelly.’ Please, therefore, forgive the crime that we, the servants of your father’s God, committed.” When they spoke these words to him, Joseph broke into tears. Then his brothers proceeded to fling themselves down before him and said, “Let us be your slaves!” But Joseph replied to them: “Have no fear. Can I take the place of God? (Gen. 50:17-19).
the children of Israel are ordered to attack the Midianites in revenge for their aggression (Numbers 31:2-3);
and Samson is granted Divine assistance when seeks vengeance against the Philistines for the loss of his eyes (Judges 16:28).
Dina’s brothers slaughter all males of the town of her beloved because of their opposition to intermarriage [Gen 34], IN- Samuel 13 Absolom’s plans for revenging a rape almost destroy the kingdom of David, there are many other examples to be found like: Toward the end of David’s reign, the Gibeonites exact revenge upon the family of Saul, who nearly wiped out the Gibeonites (2 Sam. 21:1-9). David reluctantly complies to their request because of God’s disapproval of Saul’s behavior. Without exacting vengeance, David’s kingdom would have perished from the famine.
David curses Joab and his father’s house for the act of blood revenge for having murdered Abner, and orders that Abner be buried in Hebron. The entire kingdom mourns for Abner because David wished to demonstrate that he had nothing to do with the death of this valued hero (2 Sam 3:31–39). Before David dies, he leaves instructions to his son Solomon to execute Joab, whose crimes against Abner and Amasa must be carried out and Shimei, son of Gera, the Benjaminite of Bahurim,(1 Kgs. 2:5-9).
The idea of the avenger of blood. A person killed through manslaughter (for example, accidental killing) must be avenged by a family member. The perpetrator has only one recourse: to flee to a “City of Refuge”, as specified in Torah, to either live out his days or to wait for the High Priest’s passing, at which point he may leave freely without fear of harm.
Over time, these ideas of recipricatory justice have been replaced with the authority of rabbinic courts, and later the state. Extrajudicial killing is all but eliminated (the exception is that of the rodeif, or the murderous pursuer, who may be killed in order to stop their pursuit after sufficient warning).
Revenge, in this case, provided a practical purpose: When there is no court to exact punishment, When the family will not allow itself to be trifled with. If one lives in a lawless society or a society where the rule of law is weak, vengeance serves to help preserve the social order.
Theological Jewish argument: . “There is nothing greater and more righteous than revenge in its place and time” When the wicked prosper, God’s providence becomes more hidden. By facilitating divine justice, the avenger increases awareness and the glory of God. Revenge is a Kiddush Hashem. Revenge is a cause for joy, celebrating God’s victory over the wicked. It is a mitzvah that the most righteous Jews strive to fulfill. Admittedly, people often find it difficult to overcome their
innate feelings of mercy but those who are able to do so receive ample reward. Those who cannot exact God’s revenge ironically display cruelty, even heresy, and deny justice its proper place in the world.
Two important distinctions regarding revenge. First, you are forbidden to take revenge on other Jews and only permitted on gentiles. This distinction is important in explaining the Torah’s apparent contradictions regarding revenge, praising it (e.g. Psalms 58:11) but also forbidding it (Lev. 19:18). Revenge against Jews is forbidden but against gentiles is even a mitzvah.
The second distinction is a matter of intent: Revenge out of anger or hatred is unacceptable but based on the desire to increase God’s glory is a mitzvah.
R. Avraham Ben Ha-Rambam (Guide to Serving God, pp. 88, 94, 96, 98) writes:
Like his father, R. Avraham Ben Ha-Rambam demands that revenge be taken without anger. Not everyone is capable of such a difficult emotional task but whomever the community appoints must be able to act in such a godly fashion, acting with justice and without anger. One Medieval explanation of the seemingly redundant statement after the stoning of the blasphemer that the Jews did as God commanded (Lev. 25:23). Ramban and Seforno explain that the Jews punished the sinner only because God commanded them to do so and not out of any feelings of hatred or vengeance.
The Jewish people as G-d’s Chosen, exist so that G-d can be manifest through his Chosen people to the rest of mankind.
Therefore say unto the House of Israel: Thus saith the L-rd, G-d: I do this not for your sake O House of Israel, but for My Holy Name… And I will sanctify My great Name which hath been profaned among the nations which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am the L-rd, saith the L-rd, G-d, WHEN I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.” (Ezekiel 36)
And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’ (Gen 12:3)
dweller Said:
Excellent posts, dweller. Right on.
Bill Levinson Said:
No, Bill, He did not say that “you will be an enemy” but rather “I will be an enemy” and that is conditional upon “if you will obey His voice”. Remember Shema? Besides His four sore judgments (Exek 14:21), G-d can be a worse enemy to your enemies than anything you could ever do to them. He can create storms, raise rivers, send plagues and do all sorts of things as you just watch. Isn’t Israel’s present existence a miracle? Remember the 6 Day War? He can also put a burr under the saddle of your leaders to compel them to act ferociously to right this wrong. He is particularly angry at the death of innocents.
Years ago a man about 35 falsely accused my husband and I and set us up. He lied about us in court under oath and turned everyone against us. When questioned, I warned the Police about him and an officer said to me, “If he kills anyone we will come looking for you because it will be your fault” …for telling him to Repent. The false accuser had said, “I don’t have to repent. I’m a Christian.” Yeah, right! We were impressed to leave. Two years later we heard that he died of a brain tumor. The scripture says, Ps 68:21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses. G-d executed judgment on him for his deception and lies. I don’t wish evil on my enemies because I know G-d has our back. He can do things so powerfully, it is unimaginable. I have to resist feeling sorry for them. (Ezek 9:5).
@ Bill Levinson:
Quite so, but you can’t be doing that in the manner that He wishes if you aren’t listening to that Voice because you’re too busy getting high on the illusion produced by the sensation of being He.
The immediately preceding verses [Ex 23:20-21 (Mishpatim)]:
“Behold, I am sending an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Beware of him [viz., the angel] and obey him; do not rebel against him, for he will not forgive your transgression, for My Name [i.e., My character & purpose] is within him.”
@ yamit82:
It is nothing of the sort.
(What’s more, DEMAGOGUERIE among Jews is a shonde fur de goyim.)
@ honeybee:
Yes; shall rejoice when he SEETH it — not when he ‘doeth’ it.
Retaliation is always measured. It is a rational decision to communicate a message to the enemy, and usually w/ an eye to deterrence.
Vengeance, OTOH, is strictly the province of the Almighty:
— “He will aim His arrows…”
— “He will drive them away as a storm wind…”
— “He avenges the blood of His servants”
— “[He] renders retribution to His foes…”
In MAN, Vengeance is associated with an emotional response — consequently it is always un-measured; boundless, uncontrolled. . . . till it wears itself out.
When we yield to vengeance, we don’t do it because it’s rational (though we may explain it that way to ourselves & others).
We do it because we get off on it. We do it because of the supreme pleasure it affords a finite being to experience the sensation of being a Supreme Being.
But the only true & authentic Supreme Being — who freely declares Himself a “jealous God” — SAYS, in no uncertain terms, that He doesn’t take AT ALL kindly to our usurping His prerogatives.
— Nor to our saying or suggesting that He ‘does.’
But to bring the matter back to earth:
The inescapable reality is that Hamas should’ve been wiped out — to a man —
long ago. And the sooner this error of omission is corrected, the better. But that is a thoroughly rational judgment not requiring a full head-of-steam to make, OR to execute. It’s not a matter of vengeance
— but simple common sense (which, regrettably, ISN’T very common these days).
@ bernard ross:
These illnesses among the Illegal population along the border are well known, No surprise. I have relatives that are in the Medical field in Midland.
@ honeybee:
this is unrelated but are you familiar with this story in Texas?
bernard ross Said:
There are Amer. Indian casinos that refuse to accept $20.00 bills because of Jackson’s portrait.
@ mar55:
I tried twice to respond to you but was spammed both times.
mar55 Said:
The Fogel murder horrified me!!!!!!!! Those helpless babies. I thought the response to their death tepid, so now more babies are murdered. I know the boy were teenagers, but to their Mothers they will always be their Mother’s babies.
mar55 Said:
This murder effected me as it effected you. I cannot endured children being hurt. I thought the responds to this atrocity ineffective and so now more babies die. I know they are teenagers, but to their Mothers they will always be their Mother’s little ones
yamit82 Said:
What is the difference between vengeance and retaliation ?????
Vengeance is a Jewish Obligation!!!
A prayer that we read each Shabbat that says: “May He avenge the blood of His servants which has been shed, as it is written in the Torah of Moses, the man of G-d: ‘O nations, make His people joyful! He avenges the blood of His servants, renders retribution to His foes and atones for His land and His people.’ And in the holy writings it says: ‘Why should the nations say, ‘where is their G-d?'”
“let the high praises of G-d be in their throat and a two edged sword in their hand – to execute vengeance upon the nations…” (Psalms 58)
“The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth vengeance, he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked” (Psalms 58)
@ Laura:
It’s Not the ‘Occupation’ —- It’s Islam
Daniel Greenfield
Enough beating around the bush, islam is evil, period. There is no possibility of peaceful coexistence with muslims. And a word to Jake Tapper: There are hardly any innocent “palestinians” , most celebrate the slaughter of Jews. So stop worrying whether Israel might inadvertently kill any “innocent palestinians” when and if they strike back. Israel should use no restraint.
@ Teshuvah:
Good to have you back.
Wish the occasion could’ve been more festive.
@ Bill Levinson:
DESTROY THE ENEMY: Time For The Gaza First Plan
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/5906#.U7Ijjsu9KSM
@ Teshuvah:
Is THAT the answer, teshuvah?
I feel overwhelming sadness and anger at the same time. I then remembered this:
Ex 23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
@ the phoenix:
When the atrocity committed against the Fogel family I was really devastated thinking about children having been murdered in cold blood before they could grow and reach their potential in adulthood. I mourn for days and I could not take them from my mind for many weeks. When these three beautiful boys were kidnapped I had the feeling the vermin will execute them. I could not sleep thinking how they probably were being tortured. I felt impotent for not being able to do anything at all except pray. Any mother can feel the pain of children, young people. You always think of your own, of your grandchildren and you grieve and feel angry. The frustration of not dealing with rational human beings but with vermin. Even animals care about one another when these bastards are void of feelings for any human or even animals they do not deserve to live. All the left in Israel should be jailed. How these unfeeling politicians have the nerve to make an example by destroying the houses of the terrorist. Is Netanyahu proposing vengeance in such small scale he is making heroes out of the vermin? The rest of them will not have any fear but will celebrate these actions as if they were heroes. It might sound very radical what I’m going to say but, we need to destroy them. Nuke them until there is not one of them left to commit more crimes against humanity.
The musloids are not even subhumans they are in a class by themselves. They must be erased from the face of earth. They reproduce very rapidly and continue murdering and destroying everything that is good and beautiful in life.
Destroy them to stop their dream of imposing a caliphate on the world. They are horrible even with their own people. Their sacred book is a manual for criminals. They do not have innocent secular muslims. Only active and inactive ones.
Israel, NUKE them.
Don’t Mourn! GET ENRAGED!!!!!
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/5902#.U7IJOMu9KSM
@ Bill Levinson:
So we’re in agreement Bill as there are NO INNOCENT people amongst these shposes. Just a slight smirk on their ugly faces should be a good enough reason to shoot the bastard!
@ bernard ross:
bernard ross Said:
A RIVER of musloid blood FLOWING, not trickling, would be a good start.
@ the phoenix:
I join your feelings and then some.
For many years we have tried to expose the ghastly reality of the so called “GoI”. Even now, they putrid garbage is posting massive forces… to prevent Jewish revenge. The monstrous degenerates much rather assault unlikely slogan spray painters, if they ever find one, rather than smash Peres and Netanyahu’s “partners”.
I beg everyone sane to join a true Jewish REVOLUTION to clean the slate and freely elect a JEWISH government.
Kabinet of Kapos did not reach a consensus this evening on how to respond to the savage animals.
May be some are bargaining for better conditions than those of the subhuman who slaughtered the Fogel family.
“We will bring the boys home to be buried in Israel,” said Netanyahu.
Nice to hear directly from his mouth that Hevron is no longer within Israel.
If there is no real revenge and a taking of blood for blood the Jews will be seen to be weak and will be given more 3 finger gloats. no rocket science here.
Not only should the Hamas be destroyed but all the terrorist organizations should be annihilated, including the Fatah.
Furthermore, all those in Israel who signed agreements and continue to comply to them, and those who wish to improve their everyday life or provide with any “humanitarian” assistance to these terrorist organizations and their people, should be prosecuted under the Penal Code for their crimes perpetrated against the Jewish people, for all the casualties and injuries resulting from the Oslo Accords, and as direct complicits of these barbarians.
The judges of the Supreme Court, theses liars and inveterate falsifiers, who use the criminal justice system to achieve their political purposes, should also be put on trial for perverting the course of justice.
There are enough of innocent patriots who pay with their lives the recklessness and incompetency of these corrupt “leaders” who lead their Jewish citizens like lambs towards slaughter houses.
May G-d avenge the blood of all His Sons and Daughters.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
I am afraid that these innocent murdered CHILDREN will be yet three more names added to the long list of victims sacrificed on the ‘altar of peace’ …
SPIT!!!
TACKHLESS, what was done to the musloids that murdered the Vogel family? To their family? To their fucking village???
Now they are wringing their hands as to what to do if / when revenge attacks occur….
I am numb.
Speechless.
Full of seething anger and hate… And finding myself reciting the “serenity prayer” over and over….
Netanyahu and his ilk much rather release those bestial murderers than destroy them.
His release to thousands of those monsters is the main reason why those children have been slaughtered.
We require immediate expulsion from government of every Peresite. The unJewish excrement led by Peres and Netanyahu must go. All of them. That followed by a complete clean up of the judicial, police, military and special services leaderships.
The IBA must be sold out to Jews.
Jewish education must be re instated.
Should the people fail to effect true corrective action we will see many such barbarities.
And yet… On another thread from arutz sheva…
This is insane!!!!!
Until WHEN , God, until when?
Ad matai??????
I hope to God, that a swift BRUTAL revenge would follow immediately (decimate the musloid candy giving population by half to two thirds for starters, and deport the rest, )
You cannot stop these savage animals unless you destroy their breeding grounds.
Like it or not, anything short of levelling Gaza – and that would mean with nukes – will not stop Hamas.
The savages of Gaza have declared this a battle to the death.
Very well. Let it be their death.