By accepting this framework, Bibi is accepting the same preconditions he so vehemently rejected six months ago. Regardless of whether the framework is binding or not, Israel will be committed to uprooting 150,000 Jews which is about 50% of the settlers outside Jerusalem. We get nothing out of this deal that we didn’t already have. No one can force the right of return on us nor define us. And this deal leaves Jerusalem out of the question. It must be rejected. If the Iran deal was a “bad deal” this is a horrible deal.
Do not extend negotiations on these terms. I am saddened that this trio are going to accept it.
How can they bypass the Cabinet when so much is being given away. The government should fall over this. Ted Belman
BY YIFA YAAKOV AND TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF
February 2, 2014,
Yifa Yaakov, TOI
Israel is set to give its wary assent to US Secretary of State John Kerry’s framework peace proposal as the basis for continuing talks with the Palestinian Authority through to the end of 2014, Channel 2 news reported on Saturday night.
The TV report said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon and Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman are all inclining to accept the US framework terms, some of which were detailed by Martin Indyk, the State Department’s lead envoy to the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, in a conference call with American Jewish leaders on Thursday. The framework document would have to be finalized in the next few weeks, ahead of a scheduled fourth and final phase of Palestinian prisoner releases set for March, the report said.
The US framework document, whose terms will not have to be signed off as fully binding by the Israeli and Palestinian leaderships, provides for talks on Palestinian statehood based on the pre-1967 lines with land swaps to enable 75 to 80 percent of settlers to come under Israeli sovereignty, relates to Israel as the Jewish state, provides for compensation for refugees but no Palestinian “right of return,” and does not go into detail on the fate of Jerusalem, Indyk indicated.
Well-placed political sources told The Times of Israel at the weekend, meanwhile, that Netanyahu’s agreement to continue peace talks on the basis of the framework proposal need not provoke a coalition crisis with the right-wing Jewish Home party. Provided the framework deal was not binding and was not brought to a government vote, the sources said, the party’s leader, Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett, would likely not choose to bolt the coalition over it.
Reports in recent weeks have indicated that the Palestinian Authority is set to reject the framework document, but these reports have not been confirmed.
Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator over the weekend again ruled out the notion of Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Speaking at a Munich conference, on a panel with his Israeli counterpart Tzipi Livni, Erekat said the demand was unacceptable: “When you say ‘accept Israel as a Jewish state’ you are asking me to change my narrative,” he claimed, asserting that his ancestors lived in the region “5,500 years before Joshua Bin-Nun came and burned my hometown Jericho.”
Several Israeli right-wing politicians castigated Kerry on Saturday for comments he made at the same event, the Munich Security Conference, warning Israel of dire consequences if the current peace effort fails. Kerry said he was utterly certain that the current status quo was “not sustainable… It’s illusionary. There’s a momentary prosperity. There’s a momentary peace.” But that would end if the talks failed, he said, noting that already Israel was facing increased delegitimization and boycott threats. (A series of banks and pension funds in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Holland have announced a cessation of dealings with Israeli banks and companies in recent days because of those firms’ West Bank activities.)
US Secretary of State John Kerry (photo credit: AP Photo/Mary Altaffer)
US Secretary of State John Kerry (photo credit: AP Photo/Mary Altaffer)
Kerry said failure to reach a peace deal would damage Israel’s capacity to be “a democratic state with the particular special Jewish character that is a central part of the narrative and of the future.”
The secretary also responded to last month’s highly critical comments about him by Ya’alon, who apologized after being quoted calling him “obsessive” and “messianic” in his push for peace. Kerry said he was “surprised” by the reports, and that rather than being obsessive or fanatical, he and his team were “just working hard, because the consequences of failure are unacceptable.”
In response to the secretary’s warnings about the delegitimizing and boycotting of Israel, Bennett, the economy and trade minister, accused Kerry of incitement and of serving as a “mouthpiece” for anti-Semitic elements attempting to boycott Israel. To Kerry “and all advisers,” Bennett wrote in a Facebook post, “the Jewish people are stronger than the threats against them.” He added that the Jews would not “surrender their land” as a result of economic pressure.
“Only security will bring economic stability, not a terrorist state close to Ben-Gurion Airport. We expect our friends around the world to stand by our side to face the anti-Semitic attempts to boycott Israel, not to be their mouthpiece,” Bennett added. ”In any case, we knew how to stay strong in the past and we will now as well.”
Naftali Bennett (L), leader of the Jewish Home party, seen with Jewish Home MK Uri Ariel at a faction meeting in the Knesset on October 28, 2013. (photo credit: Miriam Alster/Flash90)
Naftali Bennett (L), leader of the Jewish Home party, seen with Jewish Home MK Uri Ariel at a faction meeting in the Knesset on October 28, 2013. (photo credit: Miriam Alster/Flash90)
Housing and Construction Minister Uri Ariel (Jewish Home) was also quick to respond to Kerry’s comments. ”Kerry said today that Israel’s economic prosperity and security are an illusion, and that if peace talks fail, Israel will be boycotted. But the truth is that the only illusions are the peace slogans Kerry is trying to sell to Israel. Slogans that cover up an existential threat to the State of Israel,” Ariel posted late Saturday on his official Facebook page. ”The Palestinians can hardly believe how lucky they are to have such a ‘fair’ mediator,” he added. “This is what incitement looks like.”
Likud MK Tzipi Hotovely, meanwhile, said Kerry’s “threats of an unprecedented boycotts” were “attempts to intimidate Israel in an effort to impose a dangerous agreement that runs contrary to the position of the Israeli government.” She said such an agreement, would “jeopardize Israel’s security,” and be “worse than any economic boycott.”
Likud MK and deputy minister Ofir Akunis also lambasted Kerry for his remarks, saying they were indicative of Washington’s “aggressive policy towards Israel.” He added, “We were here before Kerry, we’ll be here after him as well.”
Israeli government sources quoted by Channel 2 urged Kerry to pressure the Palestinians not Israel, and said that his warnings to Israel only made the Palestinians more obdurate in their positions.
dweller Said:
” All the world is a stage and we are but poor players upon it” Never review your own proformance!!!!!!!!!
dweller Said:
Your indulging yourself in “self-justification”, doesn’t become you,your better then that. Construtive critisim!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ dweller:
All you do is repeat physcho babble. You will go to great lengths to physcho babble your way out of a direct question.
The bottom line dweller is that there is only ONE Jew that you are stuck on and you can’t even get him right!!
No worries, there are enough of us who will carry on the torch for the 6 million. We don’t need you anyway!!
@ honeybee:
I’m never unkind; nor ever ‘mean.’
The comment that prompted mine fairly cried out for that response.
I could’ve ignored it, but it would only have been thoughtlessly repeated elsewhere
— in which case it might well have prompted a truly unkind response from somebody less gentle. . . .
Yes, she may still repeat it mindlessly ANYWAY, and prompt an unkind response after all — but NOW it won’t be because she had no opportunity to think twice about it.
@ dove:
Whatever.
So you say.
HE knows there is no need. You don’t.
— Not yet.
Still begging the question, I see. Repeating your assumption of my “cold heartedness” will not make it so on the 20th time you assert it
— any more than it was so on the 1st time. I suggest you re-read the post of mine that prompted your silly remark in the first place. That way you won’t have to keep cluelessly repeating it.
“Not able”? — LMAO.
I am an actor. I am able to “show” you emotion any time, anywhere, at the drop of a hat — “show” you emotion for or against ANYONE & ANYTHING. I can put it on & take it off like a raincoat, and do it on-call & on-cue. And I can make you believe it too, every friggin time (guaranteed or your money back).
SFW?! — it’s all in a day’s work.
The larger question is, Why do YOU need shows of emotion? — do they represent some touchstone to authenticity for you? — if so, you are much, MUCH mistaken; emotion has nothing to do with authenticity. Authenticity comes from another place altogether.
Demagogues do untold damage in this world with such shows of emotion, and make a nice living off of deluded suckers like PresentCompany in the doing. As with actors, emotion is the stock-in-trade of demagogues — but unlike actors, THEY are always onstage.
I refuse to treat a reader (or anybody else) with such disrespect. When I step off the stage, or away from the cameras — I leave the character behind, until such time as I return to the medium.
I refuse to trifle with somebody else’s feelings
— and I won’t make cheap public displays of my own; they are strictly between me and my Creator.
dweller Said:
Dweller,you ol’meany,that’s unkind!!!!
dweller Said:
Sure nuff. I take two fingers of burbon straight,and slowing savor it. Never in a hurried rush
@ dweller:
Say what? I am a Jew dweller. I don’t try to impress G-d. No need. What a weird response to your cold heartedness. Why are you not able to show any emotion for the 6 million Jews who perished if you claim to be a Jew?
@ dove:
What would I do with a crystal ball even if I had one?
— practice my two-handed set shot?
@ dweller:
Your crystal ball is broken again
@ honeybee:
I certainly am an acquired taste.
But you can’t take me straight.
— Always gotta have that beer chaser after the shooter. Ah, well.
À chacun[e] son goût. . . .
@ dove:
Au contraire: more than likely. Slam dunk.
Insecurity can make anybody a fool.
And joining a schul won’t keep him (or her) from CONTINUING to be one.
But you WOULD make statements in His Name that you assumed were so.
If popularity is important to you, you should run for Prom Queen.
If you could stoop to offering that rot about synagogue membership, then it’s clear that belonging most certainly IS, for you, an issue.
How would you know what an antisemite IS? — do they wear a sign on their head that says “Antisemite”?
— There are shmendricks 10 years on this board who can’t tell the real from the apparent; what makes you so sure YOU could?
@ dove:
He made my earlobe. I recognize His bite.
This merely shows how little you know about “Jewish public opinion.” You assume the Jewish People promote & maintain a magisterium, a body of info & belief that all are required to adhere to. Some faiths do. Judaism doesn’t, and the Jewish People don’t (notwithstanding what a few, supposedly Jewish, self-appointed Grand Inquisitors would have you believe).
What makes you nutty as a fruitcake is not the notion that you might commune directly with haShem — absent more info, I make no judgment, one way or the other, about that.
What makes you nutty as a fruitcake is that you would assume that your song-&-dance about what you brazenly characterized as my “cold hearted response to the 6 million Jews who perished in the holocaust” could somehow impress God. You might as well presume to impress haShem by displaying your recipe for potato latkes.
He isn’t silent. The Jews are deaf
— like everybody else.
What’s ‘learning’ got to do with the price of bananas? — relating to God isn’t about intellectual learning. that’s all stored info. Relating to God is something that happens in the ever-Present.
Whoop-ee! — “[O]of the making of books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.”
Poor folk they; all they had was the Real Article.
@ dwelller
Dweller, I’m becoming fond of your post.you’re rather like burbon,I have develope a taste for your humor and sarcasim. And, perhaps you have earn to decipher my speling.
@ dweller:
You are one of those types of people that puts one foot in your mouth, then the other foot in your mouth and then you STILL keep talking – revealing what a contradictory self righteous – wouldn’t know G-d if he bit you in the earlobe!!
In the court of Jewish ‘public opinion’ YOU would be tossed out!!
It is so laughable that you keep stating with your verbal dialogue that you have this constant communication with Hashem – but if anyone else says that they have also had communication with Hashem then they are nuttier than last years uneaten xmas cake? Where would that put YOU! Just a G-d hog – or an extreme mental nut case??
For Jews – G-d is very silent most of the time. Why? Because we should be learned by now. We have a lot of history recorded. We can study the prophets. The Jews of the Bible did not have that. They were the trailblazers for us.
I never forget. For we were once slaves in Egypt – and we were delivered from the hands of the oppressor. We CAN and WILL be delivered again! Watch out, when Hashem finds it necessary to step in it is not going to be pretty for our enemies!!
@ dweller:
What’s more, the only reason you MADE that imbecilic remark in the first place was as a means of establishing your bona fides with the Jewish community — since you seem to think you need to make such silly genuflections as a matter of ‘Belonging to the Tribe.’
And if you think that song-&-dance impresses haShem, then you’re nutty as last Xmas’ uneaten fruitcake
@ dove:
Ssh! be careful. Told you, don’t let the Thought Police hear that you relate directly to God
— it’s . . . . verboten!
Now, why would I ‘wish’ a thing like that?
I’M the one who endorses — and exhorts — an ongoing receptiveness to His direct leading.
Again, why would I ‘wish’ that? — antidepressants DULL one’s receptiveness to God.
They keep you perpetually one step ahead of your conscience
— when what you need to do is sit still, so conscience can catch up with you.
I’d NEVER ‘wish’ Prozac on anybody.
You are begging the question. A lawyer would object on the grounds that you are “assuming facts not in evidence.”
— And the judge would sustain the objection, I quite assure you. (Might even sanction you, for unduly trying to sway the Jury.)
There wasn’t jack spit in the nature of a ‘cold-hearted response’ in what I said (as any objective observer who SAW what I said would readily acknowledge).
What’s more, the only reason you MADE that imbecilic remark in the first place was as a means of establishing your bona fides with the Jewish community — since you seem to think you need to make such silly genuflections as a matter of ‘Belonging to the Tribe.’
But the truth is, all such empty gestures really do is compromise your integrity, and erode your sense of dignity.
— And if you think that song-&-dance impresses haShem, then you’re nutty as last Xmas’ uneaten fruitcake.
these days? You wish it has only been that long. that’s between me and Hashem.
hahaha….you wish
After your cold hearted response to the 6 million Jews who perished in the holocaust I doubt very much that Hashem forgave you for that before you were born.
People like you will be brought down….GUARANTEED!! 🙂
@ dove:
So, the two of you are in ongoing communication these days?
(Don’t let the Thought Police around here get wind of it; they find that sort of thing very ‘unJewish.’)
If you HAD anything resembling real innocence [< L: in — “not,” or “without,” etc; nocere: “darkness,” “night,” etc]; i.e., guiltlessness
— then “people like [YoursTruly]” couldn’t destroy it. And nobody else could either.
Only YOU can destroy your innocence, Dove — and you’ve done yeoman service in accomplishing precisely that objective.
Like prozac?
As long as you cling to resentment, then whatever you do, you will NEVER be innocent — never.
It is resentment ITSELF that destroys innocence. Resentment makes you guilty.
Give up the resentment, and guilts begin to fade (yes, it’s just that straightforward).
Aint rocket science, Lady:
There is simply no innocence in the presence of guilt. (Those are the rules; I didn’t make ’em up. Somebody Else did.)
@ dweller:
🙂 That’s not what Hashem thinks. I don’t allow people like you to destroy my innocence. Hashem provides me with an extra buffer – something you would know nothing about. 🙂
@ dove:
That’s me, at your service, m’lady.
Really? — what a surprise.
At last, something we can both agree on.
Says who? — God forgives you before you are born.
Dunno what “women” you’ve got in mind.
— NONE of the ones who’ve shared my life would place themselves in that category.
I don’t sometimes think you’re stupid. I often think you speak & behave stupidly. Whether that’s a function of native (un)intelligence or fundamental insecurity is another question.
You confuse innocence with naïveté — which is often a contrived affair.
You are FAR from ‘innocent.’
— Too much resentment in you to permit you to retain any true innocence.
@ yamit82:
Why not?
— Bloomingdales does.
@ yamit82:
See? — I told you: you’ll have anybody who’d have you.
Any port in a storm.
@ honeybee:
Both (among others):
Sex outside of wedlock.
Chocolate when I was angry.
@ yamit82:
Nope, not according to dweller. (I have it on good authority that he doesn’t assert that, and the archives support me — not the liar who makes that knowingly false claim about dweller.)
No such thing as ‘christian sin.’ There’s only sin, period; no modifier.
Neither Christians, nor Jews, nor anybody ELSE can make something sin.
Only haShem decides what that is.
That’s not a spatial designation; it’s not somewhere else. It’s HERE, NOW
— and most people are in it even as we write.
No such thing. Christ never wished a life of poverty on anybody.
Define “rich” in re food — I’ve never been able to determine what that actually means, except that the foods so categorized seem to all induce farting. Is that what it’s about?
Sure would make life easier for Yamit if I did, wouldn’t it?
Nah. That seems to have been true of a lot of Jesus Freaks of the early 70’s.
But I never ‘found’ haNitzri.
— He found me. Just kinda sneaked up on me, quietly — over many, many years.
yamit82 Said:
Los perros de Ud,den ti pulgas?????
honeybee Said:
Urban myth, I’m the real thing.
honeybee Said:
Lets put it this way my dog has a prettier face than some of them.
My uncle married a woman so ugly we kids called her “the beast”. They had a little ugly dog called “Beauty”. We used to call them “Beauty and the Beast”.
honeybee Said:
Both according to dweller are sinful and dweller is all about christian sin. He wants to stay out of the Lake of fire. His yeshu vow of poverty also includes rich foods. He should have become a Buddhist monk. I bet he was a Hari Krishna before he found yeshu.
yamit82 Said:
Don Juan????????
yamit82 Said:
thats not experiences, thats perversion!!!!
dweller Said:
Tickle Tickle tiger
dweller Said:
Are you talking about sex or chocolate????/
@ dweller:
Your a pervert!! There was absolutely nothing sexually intended by the comment I made.
Glad I never went down the same path as you. Now you can’t forgive yourself and you treat women like crap because of it??
I don’t care if you sometimes think I am stupid. It’s a compliment coming from you! It validates to me that garbage can STILL go over my head. Innocence….and I intend to keep it that way. 🙂
honeybee Said:
It was me who preferred the dark. Some of my ex-partners were real dogs.
honeybee Said:
Compared to what?
dweller Said:
Does Macy’s tell Gimbels?
@ honeybee:
And a LOT of it in my body.
@ yamit82:
I’ve had lots of experiences, of MANY kinds, that in retrospect, I wish I hadn’t indulged.
— And the vast majority of persons would, I suspect, acknowledge the same about themselves.
Wouldn’t be too quick to put a premium on “experience” for its own sake. . . .
Oh? — so you have screwed in a litebulb before? (How did you get out afterward? Wouldn’t touching its walls be likely to burn?)
Tell me, was it an incandescent, or a squiggly CFL? — LED?
@ honeybee:
Perhaps you partner preferes the dark!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Then your experience is limited???????
honeybee Said:
Never happen with me.
yamit82 Said:
But what if your partner is claustrophobic????????
yamit82 Said:
You’re good today,on a roll, is that enough dexterity for you???????
dweller Said:
Just proves your inexperience and lack of imagination not to mention absence of any physical dexterity.
I guess your famous and renowned cosmic intuitive abilities have failed you this time.
Felix Quigley Said:
Not so significant (12) seats!!!! BB’s options are Labor (15) Shas(11) and UT (7) All three would readily join BB’s coalition, no one want new elections.
To Your question: No, I said there would NOT at this time be any positive benefits to be derived by them quitting as they would readily be replaced by labor who have 3 more mandates than Bennett and his party.
As soon as BB does not need them (Bennett)he will jettison them even if they don’t leave on their own.
The key to the life of BB and the coalition is with the LIKUD MK’s not Bennett. Last weeks polling gave Bennett’s party an increase of 5 seats just by opposing BB, and the Likud dropped 2-3 in the quarrel over whether Jews can stay in Y&S under Arab sovereignty. That was a shift primarily of Likud-Betaynu supporters moving over to Bennett. I do think Bennett should leave the Likud but only when it matters and will effect something positive wrt to stopping BB. Right now I don’t see such a move doing anything to stop BB when he has Labor party waiting to jump on board. It might put more pressure on Likud MK’s but I don’t see any of them committing political suicide over competitor Bennett.
BB must first do something final that would rally those opposed to him to unite. So far he has kept them at bay and in disarray as thy have no leader to rally around in opposition to BB. Many disparate voices but no apparent unified structure of dissent and opposition.
In the meantime being in the government gives Bennett a platform to openly oppose BB where being in the opposition nobody would pay attention to him or his party. Bennett’s party ministers control massive government budgets and a lot of economic clout where they can effect some positive outcomes especially in the territories.
dweller Said:
OMG, you have a a little humor in your soul!!!!!!!
Yamit
You say that Bennett should stay in the coalition with his significant group of MKs
I say that he should resign ON THE BASIS OF THE TALKS and create an alliance with Likud in order to fight a new election on a really Israeli Jewish answer to the situation
I say that Likud should now expel Netanyahu from Likud and act as above
That is my opinion.
Now what is your opinion when you say Bennett should stay in the Coalition. Please say for what purpose? Do what?
I do think that is wrong, just please elaborate.
Do you not think that Bennett is rubber stamping all of this Netanyahu betrayal?
Perhaps that’s what it will take: incitement.
The historical pattern is that the enemy takes such suggestions as an apparent advantage — and a cue to attack (a cue he can’t resist) — whereupon the battle is joined
— and what couldn’t be done at the conference table gets done on the battlefield.
@ dove:
“Screw in a litebulb”? — whew!
— It’s bound to be cramped enough in there to just to sit still; let alone, screw.
Gauchapines,I will learn to spell,but it’s such a bother.
yamit82 Said:
Most likely,Darlin!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Maybe??? 😛
honeybee Said:
I know.
yamit82 Said:
vodka!!!!!!!!! Barracho
yamit82 Said:
Who didn’t!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
So does Tx.
yamit82 Said:
Mexico proper is safer ,they love the ex-pats they border is dangerous. Mexico is in the middle of one of their revlutions. Northern Indians tribe againt the southern Guapapines
honeybee Said:
Like dweller I too have well honed intuition but I don’t attribute it to metaphysics. I think it’s chemicals like fluoride.