By Evelyn Gordon, Commentary
Israel marked the 10th anniversary of its unilateral pullout from Gaza this week with a rare consensus: The disengagement was a disaster. Even opposition leader and Labor Party chairman Isaac Herzog admitted that “from a security perspective, the disengagement was a mistake. While he still considers it “essential” demographically, he isn’t sure he would have voted for it had he known then what he knows now. And this is the man who, back in 2005,declared that, thanks to the disengagement, “for the first time in decades there is genuine hope” for “lasting peace.”
Equally remarkable was a poll of Israeli Jews earlier this month asking whether they supported or opposed the pullout at the time. An overwhelming majority of respondents – 59 percent – asserted that they had opposed it, while only 34 percent admitted to having supported it. That, of course, is far from the truth; polls at the time consistently showed solid pluralities or majorities favoring the disengagement, while only about a third of Israelis opposed it. But this revisionist history accurately reflects Israelis’ current view of the withdrawal: Many of those who once backed it are now convinced they must actually have opposed it, because they simply can’t imagine they would have supported any idea as disastrous as this one proved to be. And even among those still willing to admit they once supported it, almost one-fifth now regret doing so.
It’s not just the obvious fact that the Palestinians turned Gaza into a giant launch pad from which some 16,500 rockets and mortars have been fired at Israel over the past decade, whereas exactly zero have been fired from the Israeli-controlled West Bank over the same period. It’s not just that quitting Gaza has resulted in more Israeli soldiers being killed, and also more Palestinians, than occupying Gaza ever did. It’s not just that after Israel withdrew every last settler and soldier from Gaza, the world has sought to deny it the right to defend itself against the ensuing rocket attacks by greeting every military operation with escalating condemnation, accusations of war crimes, and attempts to prosecute it in the International Criminal Court. It’s not just that the withdrawal ended up worsening global anti-Semitism, since every military operation in Gaza has served as an excuse for a massive upsurge in anti-Semitic attacks worldwide. It’s not just that Israel received zero diplomatic credit for the pullout, with most of the world not only still insisting that Gaza is “Israeli-occupied territory,” but excoriating Israel with escalating ferocity, and eventhreatening sanctions, for its reluctance to repeat this disastrous experiment in the West Bank, while assigning Palestinians zero responsibility for the impasse.
All these are certainly reasons enough to consider the pullout a disaster. But there’s one final negative outcome, as reflected in another poll released last week: Due to this Israeli reluctance, born of hard experience, a majority of overseas Jews now deems Israel insufficiently committed to peace. And that, in some ways, is the worst betrayal of all. Most Israelis don’t expect much from the Palestinians or the UN or Europe. But they do expect their fellow Jews to sympathize with their fear that withdrawing from the West Bank would simply replicate the Gaza disaster on a much larger scale.
After all, none of the negative consequences that ensued in Gaza can be blamed on the popular distinction between the “moderate” Fatah, led by Mahmoud Abbas, and the “hardline” Hamas. For Gaza wasn’t handed over to Hamas, but to Abbas. He’s the one who first enabled the escalation by refusing to use his forces to stop it; consequently, there were more than four times as many rocket attacks in 2006, the first year after the disengagement, as in either of the previous two years. And he’s the one who lost Gaza to Hamas in a bloody coup in mid-2007 when the latter decided it no longer needed a fig leaf.
Thus Israel has no reason whatsoever to think giving Abbas the West Bank wouldn’t produce the same result, except with even more disastrous consequences. Hitting major Israeli population centers from Gaza requires long-range rockets; from the West Bank, easily produced short-range rockets suffice. Nor should we forget suicide bombings, which, during the second intifada (2000-2005), caused more Israeli casualties in four years than all the terror attacks of the entire previous 53 years combined. Those attacks were launched almost exclusively from parts of the West Bank controlled by the Palestinian Authority, and they stopped only when the Israeli army retook control of these areas – meaning Israel’s previous experiment with ceding parts of the West Bank was even less encouraging than the Gaza experiment has been.
Most Israelis would still be willing to trade land for peace, but they’ve had enough of trading land for terror. And until overseas Jews can produce a convincing argument for why the next pullout would be any different than all the previous ones, it would be nice if they instead practiced the traditional Jewish value of giving fellow Jews the benefit of the doubt. To interpret caution born of grim experience as disinterest in peace isn’t merely unfair; it’s downright malicious.
Originally published in Commentary on July 29, 2015
Only mental basket cases can possibly miss the plot.
At the 5th floor of the Kiriah. IMoD Tel Aviv nest and right after the original Pogrom by Sharon, Netanyahu, Livni, Olmert, Ezra, etc, a group of officers were appointed to develop complete manuals for the mega “disengagement” being triggered as we speak.
The planning was reported at that time at one of two “newspapers” leading the Pogrom reporting at that time.
I hope that the plot unravels for everyone’s good.
warped minds who equate aberrant Jewish individual acts with the institutionalized behavior of the Jews sworn enemy, as if Jews teach their children that muslims are the sons of apes and pigs. It is these false equations which are the false lies which allow hatred to fester. Truth does not breed hatred.
does this info come from jews or from the philistines who always fabricate price tag attacks they commit themselves?
the BB appointee whose enemy is the Jewish settlers. The appointee who has already decided a settler Jew did it and is therefore looking to no other possibility. the BB appointee who will frame and deliver settlers in order to turn public opinion further against settlers so as to facilitate the giving away of YS
the gov and politicians have been lax in ending arab muslim atttacks on Jews both physical and verbal incitement. They are lax in allowing a gov gestaspo to arrest jews with “murmuring lips”. the hatred is bred by the peres’ and rivlins who ignore the injustice to Jews and settlers and instead demonize them. they planted the seeds of hatred and encouraged its growth, what we see now is that same hatred in their lynch mob behavior. They are the perpetrators of hate.
In other words, they are not even looking for or open to anyone else other than a settler being the perp. It appears to me that the rule of law is endangered by these either incompetent or disingenuous security officials who point fingers without evidence and encourage lynch mob justice. If I were to use the same crime solving methods I would conclude that the security officials were the perps.
this is exactly the type of unwarranted action of which I warned which is the typical response of a fascist gov attempting to incarcerate opposition to its policies on trumped up charges, with no evidence and no crime. a mass license to incarcerate dissenters disguised as an attempt to support security and law. Since when is a government demonization and lynch mob a rule of law?
The rush to lynch mob justice by an irresponsible leadership in gov and oppostion is astounding and simply a fig leaf for extending unbridled power. It appears that the GOI have taken the opportunity, without a shred of evidence in the arson case, to target the right wing settler community. The zeal with which the left and the gov sprang to a lynch mob stance has almost a sense of orchestration. The demonization tactics are reminders of the demonizatio0n of settlers by the left just prior to their pogrom on gush katif. It was also done just prior to the shooting of Jews by the left at altalena.
It is all too coincidental to avoid suspicion the day after the gov faced criticism for its gestappo tactics on Jews with “murmuring lips” at the Mount and settlers in YS. Suddenly we have legal detention of the only real political opposition to the left wing agenda. This is a tried and true fascist tactic.
As the massive manhunt was ONLY focused on right wing Jews it likely indicates that the fix was in. With so much invested in a pre determined target it is highly unlikely that any evidence leading to a non right wing jew would be found or released to the public. I am reminded of “Breaker Morant” where the British gov framed and sacrificed its own high ranking officer as a sacrifice of appeasement in the Boer War in order to conclude a treaty.
The BB gov and leftist politicians who crow about the rule of Law have no compunction with being part of a lynch mob and exploiting the situation to remove basic civil and human rights for no reason.
@ bernard ross:
We do not know a thing about the whole incident. Anything can be confirmed or fabricated at will.
Yet, on the whole, you are correct. Almost invariably agents provocateurs working usually for the nefarious “Jewish Section” of the GSS, (AKA SHABAK or “Sherutei Bitachon Clali’im)”. have been involved on a variety of hard crimes that were stuck against purported “Jewish undergrounds”.
The “Jewish Section” is a copy of the Soviet era KGB, I believe, “Yevsekziah”. The creatures roam all over the place.
And at this time I doubt not that such conspiracy may well be in the cards.
Or not…
Felix Quigley Said:
the benefit of the doubt was in reference to BB motivation for many prior actions. You may remember that I speculated for years that BB had understandings with the GCC which may be the explanation for many of his odd behaviors eg POD cease fire, release of terrorists, 9 mos faux talks, et etc. However, there were alternate explanations, though not as consistently accurate, regarding his motives. I stated before the election that his conduct, ministerial appts and subsequent behavior will decide my views as he clearly stated that he sat with the right and Bennett. Once he instituted the panic it became clear that he sought to draw votes from the right away from Bennett rather than from the center. His behavior in ministerial appts after, his sending feiglin to siberia, treating Bennett last, giving him irrelevant eunuch ministry, focusing on already annexed jerusalem instead of YS, killing the supreme court bill, etc etc drove me to decide with logic rather than emotion and accept the most logical explanation for his behavior. I believe the GCC relationship necessitates his actions and predicting his future action as being determined by that fact will prove correct, as it has so far. If this is the scenario then much of the drama with the PA is BS.
Felix Quigley Said:
NO, I never bought the idea that right wing votes going to benett instead of BB would bring labor to power. It is the over all right wing vote which brings the coalition to power. If Bennet has more votes but BB still wins or comes second then the right wing would still form gov just as it did when BB fist formed without being the winner. I preferred more votes for Bennet in order to insure that BB was pressured further right after getting power, and my reasoning was proven correct by what he did when he got the power, he threw away all his promises. BB’s panicking of voters was not an attmpt to bring more center or leftist voters to his parties but an attempt to influence the balance of power between him and bennett and the right wing in general. this analysis was proven correct by BB’s subsequent actions after winning: everything he did diminished or killed the right wing agendaFelix Quigley Said:
I believe it was prior to the panic that I still gave BB the benefit of the doubt in his motivations even though I believed he had the GCC understandings. I believe I used that phrase in a discussion at the point I crossed the fence; at the panic when everyone bought his narrative that unless he was voted for (instead of benett) labor would win. I was vilified for distrusting his motives by some. I advised to the contrary because I suspected that BB would do exactly what he has done. Also I knew that a vote for bennett would not take votes from a winning right wing coalition but would tilt the coalition more right, would be a check on BB leanings. That was blatant BS and his panic did not draw more voters to the right from the center or left but drew from bennett to BB. If BB had taken an action to draw more of his voters from the center rather than risk those voters by appealing to benetts voters I would have though differently. The tactic was the major decision maker and his subsequent actions prove it correct. Therefore, at this time I am more confident that BB seeks to destroy the “extreme” right from within, to remove opposition to his centrist/left policies. If I am correct then his entire MO is based on deception. Such people tend to rationalize that the deception is necessary and justifies the end. He may reasonably believe that his understandings with the GCC will lead to a better deal and more land, but it is a dictatorial MO which employs gestapo tactics against murmuring jewish lips on the Mounts and in their natural home in YS. My perspective is the most reasonable in explaining why he has never said that jewish settlement in YS is both legal and legitimate.
Bear Klein Said:
#16
https://www.israpundit.org/archives/63608497/comment-page-2#comment-63356000159299
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Felix Quigley Said:
the committed investment without evidence of the gov and police to pin this on Jewish terrorists, who will naturally morph into settlers is extremely suspicious. It brings to mind the film “breaker morant”, a true story where the brits framed and sacrificed on of their own high ranking officers in order to appease their enemies and end the Boer wars. The coincidence of everyone jumping on the bandwagon to sacrifice jews without any evidence smacks of a false flag. There appears to be no looking anywhere else excpt for jews which tends to guarantee that jews will be framed with the involvement of Israeli intelligence agencies. It appears that the gov may take this opportunity to kill right wing dissent and destroy the settler community. It is odd how this “opportunity” arose as the gov was meeting criticism for its treatment of Jews and settlers. A demonization of the settler community by the BB gestapo will simply prove to be the next logical step in the grand scheme of moving the Israeli psyche to the center and destroying the right wing from within its ranks. This will enable the slowly unfolding deal to give away YS to emerge. The demonization tactic was used for disengagement and for the Altalena murders. It is the same tactic used through the ages by govs and the church on the Jews… this tactic is a bad omen and usually ends in dead jews. I cannot disqualify the possibility of Israeli gov collusion in this series of events based on their immediate condemnations with no evidence.
@ Bear Klein:
Seconds ago I read on Arutz 7 that an Arab from Lod went on screaming to the police that he was attacked by “right wing Jewish terrorists” when he was exiting his Mosque.
The police reports that the “assailants” were three Arabs….
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:You are correct that it is not proven who did this act.
I have written this elsewhere. There have been incidents where Arabs have made it look like Jews were the culprits. Could have happen here I do not know.
@ Bear Klein:
Just the facts. Facts. Speculations in this case cannot and must not be accepted. What independent investigative findings point to a Jewish attack?
Spare me the Israeli GSS and or Israeli politzei preset programmed shinola as evidence.
Institutions as those two are, that include vast networks solely dedicated to harming Jews, cannot be trusted.
We must have an independent prosecutor elected by the majority plus of the Knesset to ferret out the truth which MUST be fully disclosed to the people.
http://www.debka.com/article/24780/Israel%E2%80%99s-hysterical-self-blame-spree-will-fuel-more-terror-and-violence-Not-everyone-is-guilty
The “discussion” comntinues on Martin Sherman Facebook but it is now mostly me writing and nobody replying. What to make of that?
Adina the issue here in this case of this baby being burned is not of Obama at all. That is an important issue naturally but not the direct issue here. It is raised by you as a diversion.
The issue comes about because Israelis do not have a leadership that can or will give leadership to the Jews.
This is an historical matter with its roots deep inside of the 2000 years of persecution in the world.
It has become very hard for Israelis to raise a leadership that can actually take control of the situation and “sort out” the future.
So rather Adina than diverting to Obama (who we all know is a Muslim Antisemite but elected by Americans so what can Israelis do about him not a lot!) it is necessary to focus on Israel and here there is a dire shortage of leadership.
There must be a leadership raised that will do a number of key things. 1. determine the borders of the Jewish state as being Golan, Jordan Valley, border with Egypt I think, and definitely the sea.
All this bullshit about Gaza, West Bank etc. must be ended.
No 2 is to end the Supreme Court No 3 is only Jews vote for Knesset and Knesset vote rules OK
Islam must be ended in Israel.
The Jihadists must be killed/deported
The ordinary Muslims who like Israel must also respect Israel and that is to support the Jewish vote and the Jewish state.
As framed the police and even sections of the IDF are dangerous to Jews.
For goodness sake as an Irish atheist I say to Jews take control of your destiny. You do not realise how many will support you!
Like · Reply · 55 mins
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Felix Quigley I cannot stress enough that this situation of firebombing, demos, stoning of IDF, Antisemitism in BBC etc. ids a result of lack of leadership inside of Israel.
It seems to me looking from outside it is tru, but I follow it closely, that it is a perfect place for the agent provocateur to operate in.
This includes also agent provocateur inside of the Jewish movements as well.
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Felix Quigley It is a fact that in Northern Ireland in the long and oppressive British struggle there that they infiltrated all political movement to a very high (or deep) level so much so that it is thought that at the end they actually controlled totally the Sinn Fein Republican movement.
But that situation arose from lack of political leadership by the Sinn Fein movement.
Sinn Fein under Adams felt that they could actually bomb the protestants of the north into a united Ireland. In fact the bombing campiagn meant that the IRA had to operate in hidden groups and thus they were isolating themselves, and they in their secrecy actually opened the door to widespread infiltration by agents AND PROVOCATEURS
It is a most serious and difficult situation. It is clear that after the Gaza withdrawal in 2005 that the police and a section of the IDF are most dangerous to Jews.
That situation comes about completely from the lack of clear leadership on vital matters.
It is the Jihad that Jews have always been fighting against. Islam must be banned totally and completely in Israel and it must be done now.
All of these events are being staged and it is all being directed by agents of the Jihad.
The actual youth in these settlements are in fact being miseducated. It is a mistake to be isolated, cornered,and painted as different.
Their horizons must be much broader into the whole of the Israeli state, borders defined, no Islam, kill/deport the Jihadists, those Arabs friendly to Israel prove it by supporting only Jews vote for Knesset. Smash the Supreme Court like yesterday!
It is finally so much NOT Judea and Samaria, it is an Islam free Israel in which Judea and Samaria are integral and so much so it is taken for granted by all Israeli Jews. As for Gaza, end it, break it up, reorganise it on a hitherto untought of basis…which will include maratime living as a living guide tot he rest of the (polluted) med peoples. A Jewish Med paradise and open to the friends of the Jews in the world.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-dont-use-jewish-terrorists-to-tarnish-settlers/
Debka article has very interesting perspective and some very good points.
See the “Two Ronnies” on class. The English know and named class. There is the working class, the middle class and the upper ruling class.
I think I have got Shaked. She is the middle class. That unstable forcé always unstable.
She is a Little afraid. Wants to do well abd is patritic in a way but is basically afraid to move boldly.
She wants Israel to be “special” and liked. A true romantic as are so many.
She does not care if Israel is smashed up so long as her romantic image remains.
After when it would all be over she will say (But the Jews can never be destroyed)
Well history shows they can and everything can be destroyed.
She and Bennett are a bit like Podemos in Spain. Not really rooted in a programme.
That is why she joins with the enemy as her statement you quoted suggests. She and Bennett have written their political death sentence.
SHmuel
i have a high regard for you because I well remember you did see the need to vote for Netanyahu to keep the clear traitors from having their hands on power. That Word “Traitor” is relative but Livni and Herzog were very dangerous indeed. With their hand on power NATO as in Serbia may not have been far behind. Sometimes you have to fight in a way that gives you a Little breathing space to work in.
Having said that I do not like to personalise it on Netanyahu because it is like a very diseased patient a disease which is rooted in the 2000 years of persecution. And yet the Jewish movement is great but seriously hamstrung.
One of the first things Ted said about Mrs Shaked was how attractive she was. SILlY SILLY SILLY
Everything today depends on programme a programme printed stated fought for IN THE OPEN
tell your Friends you meet on the trip. Stop thinking of that área. Think of the whole. They box themselves into a corner.
THEY are not the answer.
Do not allow them to be isolated.
It is programme first and foremost.
Jews must take possession of their destiny. State the borders as Golan, Jordan Valley, border with Egypt not Sina, and Sea
End Islam in that state. You will have massive support believe me.
Do not tinker with the Supreme Court. Smash it.
Only Jews vote to the Knesset and Knesset rules OK.
Only democracy here is the democracy to be not beaten by Islamic savages.
This is a copy paste from Martin Sherman Facebook
Felix Quigley PS The very useful comment from Josh Hasten Facebook Page “Ruth Cohen Harif I challenged this assertion because, Shechem is in PA CONTROLLED area, with troops and signs posted. and it would be suicidal for any Jews to go in there and Arabs certainly speak and write Ivrit.”
Suicidal for Jews to go there, states Ruth Cohen who seems to know what she is talking about, but this is obvious evidence which is totally disregarded.
This looks more and more like a Palestinian Arab False Flag, either Hamas or Fatah (there is no difference)
An after-thought…I presume that the CIA are very active in the area of Israel in general having also a base int he Negev, and I presume also that British Intelligence have never left, including if needed the SAS. These are not unreasonable assumptions given my knowledge of the Brtiish in Ireland.
Following the Iran deal by Obama more and more being challenged this may be a False Flag operation to take the heat off Obama and Kerry on that issue. It certainly is moving in that direction with MASSIVE coverage of this one incident and the Israeli Ministers saying mea culpa mea culpa ad nauseam.
Anything is possible in this volatile situation
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 11:56am
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Adina Kutnicki Now, whether or not this was indeed committed by a Jew or an Arab has yet to be determined. However, Obama Inc. has NO issue with calling for freeing Arab terrorists who burn Jewish families! http://www.israelsvoice.org/…/palestinian-authority…/
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Shirlee Finn · Friends with Martin Sherman and 6 others
Felix Quigley i am with you 100%
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Joseph Dermot Smith · 12 mutual friends
Dear Adina Kutnicki I two am with you 100% all convicted murder’s after fair due legal process belong in jail and that is the right place for them. Outside interference in the affairs of sovereign Democratic countries internal affairs is a no,no. Shalom.
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Felix Quigley Adina you write “Now, whether or not this was indeed committed by a Jew or an Arab has yet to be determined”.
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Felix Quigley I do not agree with you Adina when you write “Now, whether or not this was indeed committed by a Jew or an Arab has yet to be determined”: Witht he clear implication to shut up Felix which I tell you I wil not do ever. This is not a time for Jews to sagely say such things.
There is a war going on against Jews and Israel by Arabs and by world Antisemites in the Media and elsewhere.
It is a principle of mine that I will never join with the enemy against Jews even in a case where Jews are misguided. I do not agree with throwing bombs or anything like that but I will never join with the enemy against any Jews.
You Adina clearly say something very different to that.
Having said all of that this is not a time to just be pious and correct. This is a time to raise the clear thought that this MOST LIKELY was the work of agents provocateurs who seek to blacked the name of Jews and Israelis in the world.
That is why I have raised this possibility on the Martin Sherman Facebook Page.
If this is really the work of agents provocateur, that is the work of the enemy, and given the statements of the ex heads of Israeli Intelligence and military/police establishment then Jews in the area are going to be in grave danger because this police will seek to pin this on innocent Jews and thus also seeking to cover their tracks.
Two different approaches Adina. I stand with Jews whatever. You do not.
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Felix Quigley Adina the issue here in this case of this baby being burned is not of Obama at all. That is an important issue naturally but not the direct issue here. It is raised by you as a diversion.
The issue comes about because Israelis do not have a leadership that can or will give leadership to the Jews.
This is an historical matter with its roots deep inside of the 2000 years of persecution in the world.
It has become very hard for Israelis to raise a leadership that can actually take control of the situation and “sort out” the future.
So rather Adina than diverting to Obama (who we all know is a Muslim Antisemite but elected by Americans so what can Israelis do about him not a lot!) it is necessary to focus on Israel and here there is a dire shortage of leadership.
There must be a leadership raised that will do a number of key things. 1. determine the borders of the Jewish state as being Golan, Jordan Valley, border with Egypt I think, and definitely the sea.
All this bullshit about Gaza, West Bank etc. must be ended.
No 2 is to end the Supreme Court No 3 is only Jews vote for Knesset and Knesset vote rules OK
Islam must be ended in Israel.
The Jihadists must be killed/deported
The ordinary Muslims who like Israel must also respect Israel and that is to support the Jewish vote and the Jewish state.
As framed the police and even sections of the IDF are dangerous to Jews.
For goodness sake as an Irish atheist I say to Jews take control of your destiny. You do not realise how many will support you!
@ Felix Quigley:
If you allow me, I’ll jump into the thread.
Moments ago Minister of Justice Shaked opined that Jewish terror is worse than Arab terror. Vus?
I have no idea in what basis that legendary pronouncement was made. I assume she meant that Jewish blood is cheaper, or what?
Then again, I have lived in Israel for, soon to be 40 years and mental fitness up there is a commodity seldom in supply.
I guess that for the folk reaching some positions of power here, by whatever means, emitting vest quantities of hot air is, if not relevant, at least makes noise likely to be interpreted as wisdom by a chump electorate.
We have an echelon in power here, rotating here and anon, who can easily apply for Mississippi river boat cabin help for jobs.
No wonder that just about any T, D and J run circles around us.
Poof!
What kind of people are these Israelis who turned out on these marches against settlers ( a name I dislike using)
I think they are Israeli Jews who are a product of very poor leadership of Zionism. A vacuum of leadership. I usually shun open communist haters who to me are as bad as Antisemites but I did ask Yamit82 what is his programme to meet this situation that Israel is in. I still seek his answer. It is a serious and honest question. And lack of programme is also lack of direction which is related to above. Waiting Yamit….
It is never in order to join with the enemy and lapid is the clear enemy of the Jews because in the election he and Livni were definitely and explicitely envoys for Obama
You have went down a lot in my estimation because you do not stand up for Jews AGAINST THE ENEMY whatever the conditions
I teach that it is never permissable to join with the enemy against Jews even in situations where I would think Jews are misguided
But here you are joining with lapid who in turn has prejudged this case, even though this could very well be a “false flag” by the Arabs or any number of Jew Hating agencies.
You seem to have no roots in this struggle. I am Irish have never set foot in Israel but I seem to be more rooted than you are and are indeed these traitors who turned out on these marches yesterday
As I remember the election there had to ver a clear vote for Netanyahu to win the election because Netanyahu was facing the total fury of Obama who was interventing directly in the Israeli election behind Livni/Herzog. If you say now you called for a vote for Netanyahu then (but when I have asked) then that was a good and correct and principled position to take. If you did take that position then I am glad because I and everybody else on Israpundit took that position then.
Bernard Ross
You say that in the election earlier this year you gave Netanyahu the benefit of the doubt, by which I take it you called for a vote for Netanyahu int he election. I am interested in where you said that because I may have missed it. Was it one occasion (when?) or a consistent position (how many times?)
@ bernard ross:
There is complete news black out regarding the purported attack on a Muslim home inside the “authority’s” controlled area.
I will try to ferret out some credible reports once there in Y & S.
@ bernard ross:
There is no question on that the TV face would have lost if we did not reluctantly aid him to beat Obama-Livni-Hertzog, et al. Hussein Obama did not need to press Netanyahu to freeze construction and assault Jewish people and properties in Judea and Samaria. Both him and his chums passing as judges illegally assault over the border.
Netanyahu SUPPORTED and never retracted his support for “disengagement”.
His goal is a Nobel and that over all ruins and victims he will harm and harmed so far.
He allowed Iran to be nuclear. Allowed Iran to be nuclear. He allowed it. His idiotic cardboard props and red markers and pompous ass speeches were mere cover for that fact.
And as far as we can ascertain he is fanning the flames for MEGA disengagement, training thousands of psychopaths to the purpose using state funds. Where from you think the monsters in uniform come from? Whose orders the scum follow?
@ Bear Klein:
Thank you. My concern is not about the islamic beasts. We are very much aware that…. well… Jews are open game for the unJews in control.
My portable comp and phone will be left aside.
@ bernard ross:
Thank you.
I would report from the field but why making it easier for… ahem… to suddenly shut roads access down or worse.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
I wish you a safe journey and await your observations with great interest.
@ bernard ross:
We are traveling to the Judea and Samaria lands the day after tomorrow. I have been specially invited to several Jewish briefings and the purported arson is one of them.
I have at this time nothing to add and yet some very credible persons have serious reservations.
The location is one hardly ever reached by Jews and remaining alive. The MO was professional in every respect. Most of the so called “price tag” stunts were produced outside the Jewish circles.
The murderous unJews are itching to have it out against Jews in all fronts and this time they may get their wish, and this is terrible.
There will NOT be more Sharon style planned Pogroms.
Again.
The so called supreme court self elected scum HAS NO JURISDICTION outside the present limits of the State. Jewish Law has not be extended to Y & S by the Knesset, SO ALL courtiers assaults against Jews in there are criminally illegal.
Felix Quigley Said:
Rivlin and the GOI have not acted sensibly by immediately pointing fingers with no evidence. Anyone can scrawl hebrew symbols and the molotov is the recent weapon of the phillistines. the GOI is very irresponsible or has an agenda to use the situation as an opportunity without caring who gets hurt; same with EU It is odd, and suspicious, that those who clamor for the rule of law are encouraging a lynch mob
@ Felix Quigley:
I agree, plus another possible culprit who ha a great deal to gain by fanning the conflict is Iran as it can reduce jihadis against shia if they are refocused on Israel
the way that all the usual delegitimization suspects, including the GOI jumped on the lynch mob bandwagon with no evidence is very suspicious; especially since it comes immediately after a lot of criticism of the GOI for their gestapo tactics against the settlers and Jews with “murmuring lips” on the Mount. It certainly can again, as with gaza, whip up public opinion against the settlers as a whole and lessen opposition to withdrawal and future gestapo tactics.
Yes Bernard looks like False Flag. On the Josh Hasten Facebook…
PS The very useful comment from Josh Hasten Facebook Page “Ruth Cohen Harif I challenged this assertion because, Shechem is in PA CONTROLLED area, with troops and signs posted. and it would be suicidal for any Jews to go in there and Arabs certainly speak and write Ivrit.”
Suicidal for Jews to go there, states Ruth Cohen who seems to know what she is talking about, but this is obvious evidence which is totally disregarded.
This looks more and more like a Palestinian Arab False Flag, either Hamas or Fatah (there is no difference)
An after-thought…I presume that the CIA are very active in the area of Israel in general having also a base int he Negev, and I presume also that British Intelligence have never left, including if needed the SAS. These are not unreasonable assumptions given my knowledge of the Brtiish in Ireland.
Following the Iran deal by Obama more and more being challenged this may be a False Flag operation to take the heat off Obama and Kerry on that issue. It certainly is moving in that direction with MASSIVE coverage of this one incident and the Israeli Ministers saying mea culpa mea culpa ad nauseam.
Anything is possible in this volatile situation
Such a funny person is Yamit! With a twist of weirdness thrown in.
On the history of especially Russia and the socialist movement from say 1840 Yamit knows precisely nothing at all. But that never has troubled him so why should it me?
What is BuB? Forget that just tell me what your programme for Israel today is which was my original question and point.
from a comment on jpost
Bear Klein Said:
So I have noted. Your son has been called up?
Every day dangerous stones and molotov cocktails are thrown at Jews and the gov does nothing and does not condemn all arabs or muslims. It does not even do anything about the muslim mosques inciting murder of Jews on the MOunt. All of a sudden the gov has found a way to arouse the public against settlers.
Now they will be able to increase their gestapo tactics against the settlement movement and against Jews murmuring prayers on the Mount. I hope I am wrong, lets see.
Bear Klein Said:
this proves that with unstable, illogical people anything can set them off…. look how so many logical jews immediately jump to condemn a group collectively. You never see that with the muslims or arabs. Nobody even caught and a lynch mob is forming with government encouragement. I see this being used against the settler movement and whenever i see such scenarios I see false flags.
Bear Klein Said:
I dont agree with the lapid MO
It sounds like he is whipping up sentiment for a pogrom on the settlement movement. getting ready to arouse the public agains the settlers like with gaza. Every day stones and molotv coktails are thrown at Jews. Lapid did not whip up sentiment agianst the muslims inciting the attacks from their mosques. If the gov does nothing to protect jews then such reaction is predictable. but would lapid immediately condemn muslims before capturing even a suspect? How do we know it is not a phillistine false flag as they always use molotov cocktails and are known to provoke false flags and lie.? What about an iranian provocation to incite the phillistines and the sunnis to turn their wrath on Israel? the jews are to quick to seek to sacrifice the settlers on the altar of appeasement. Even if proven to be settlers why the mad rush by rivlin and others when yesterday the gov was empoloying gestapo tactics at the mount and against settlers in YS? for me the rush to judgment smaks of convenience and an agenda against the settlers. everyone, the EU, rivlin call for action agianst the settlers.
I do not like Lapid but this time his sentiment is well expressed.
The act whoever did it was heinous and stupid (looks like Jews but we do not know for sure, Channel 2 Hebrew News two men in masks did this) and is going to get a lot of people killed. The evil genie is now out of the bottle and will take a longtime to put back in.
I
@ honeybee: The trouble is his kippa is way too small. He needs the big knitted type (covers more skin) but in Israel the bald look is in.
yamit82 Said:
I can think of no better use for a kippa.
Felix Quigley Said:
Yes, Yamit82 is mangy [livin in the cave] old [ a matter of attitude] , but his politics are masculine and vigorous and correct.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
I agree…. but I also find it odd that these events, which tend to bring condemnation on the settler movement, always occur when the GOI is being criticised for anti settler behavior. Just saying, guess I am a cynic.
Bear Klein Said:
HMMMMMM, I think it happened after someone posted this:
Bear Klein Said:
could this be the reason? ( 😛 )
but seriously, I brought up that the diaspora cannot be blamed for the libels and delegitimizations perpetrated by the GOI, religious sector and media of Israel for decades. This then led into giving examples of that behavior which of course led to the current examples of that behavior in the last number of years of BB’s recent terms, which in turn illustrated the effect of the ongoing delegitimization through acts of commission and omission.
Did you disagree with my reasoning for the responsibility and cause being with Israel?
Bear Klein Said:
No, the fact we can agree on is that BB has slowed Israeli expansion in YS. as for the extent of the influence of Obama I am suspicious because we have only BB’s using it as an excuse and the apparent battle drama that goes on in public. However, such dramas are often used to fool folks, e.g. I do not for one moment beleive in the drama of BB and abbas where abbas threatens, BB witholds taxes then abbas removes the threat and BB gives the taxes… then time move to the next recycle of the same drama. I beleive that drama is a fraud concoted between BB and abbas to keep the consitutents of both of them engrossed and happy with the appearance of standing up for the constituency. Obama had a drama with sisi, but I predicted he would be back with the money and arms after sisi election. BB has a drama over Iran with Obama and at the end israelis wil say “he did not cave to obama”.
I have for a long time been posting my speculations that the understandings with the GCC have a lot to do with BB’s actions and so far that model has not failed me one time. that model if accurate would require and explain most of his actions which contradict his right wing image.
Topic started as:
Bear Klein Said:
the predictions I refer to are the predictions of betrayal by BB which have INDEED come true. You may not remember that during the election I gave BB the benefit of the doubt in spite of my speculative suspicions of him. I clearly stated that his conduct of the election, his ministerial appts and his actions subsequent to the election would clarify for me who he really is. This is why you see that I have stepped over the fence now. My stepping over is not based on emotions but on facts and analysis. BB has committed betrayal and fraud, in my view, when he pretended that he would align with Bennett as his partner, his targeted panic to steal Bennet votes through fraudulent misrepresentation, that his first actions would be with Bennet, that voting for him would strengthen the right. BB’s sending feiglin to siberia, ignoring Bennet until after giving ministries to others, appointing Bennet to an insulting eunuch ministry knowing that Bennet is about Jewish settlement in YS, keeping seats open for labor ministries, he shows his cynical opportunistic side with his deal with the religious sector for ministries(he pays them what they want and they support all his betrayals)… this is the behavior I mentioned regarding betraying ministry appts…..
after that what is his MO: he stops the bill to change the court, he allows with no response the muslim abuse of Jews at the Mount, he allows a gestapo dealing of his police with Jews for “murmuring lips” on the MOunt,……
what is the bottom line result: he has killed any platforms of settlement or Jewish freedom to his right, they are deader than before he won.
Bear Klein Said:
There is no nice way to explain the fickle and feckless Israeli electorate in general and those who purport to be on the Israeli right. In truth one can count real political right wingers here in Israel by the number of fingers and toes of a normal Israeli. A true right winger here is an endangered species. I also said Bennett was nothing more than a young BB clone with a tiny kippa on his balding head. That’s why I didn’t vote for him or his party. I may have lost but at least I picked the only real right wing entry in the elections. In truth I didn’t mind losing and BB would never have included them in his coalition anyway