ALL THE MORE REASON TO EMBRACE THE LEVY REPORT
Jerusalem rejects ‘biased’ Human Rights Council finding that West Bank Jewish communities are illegal
TIMES OF ISRAEL January 31, 2013, 2:36 pm 4
JTA — A United Nations investigation into the impact of Jewish West Bank settlements on the Palestinian population said that Israel should immediately begin to withdraw all settlers from the territory.
The report issued Thursday by the UN Human Rights Council based in Geneva said that settlement violate the 1949 Geneva Conventions and that failure to withdraw could lead to a finding of war crimes at the International Criminal Court.
The Palestinians have threatened to take Israel to the ICC since the Palestinian Authority was recognized as having non-member state status in the General Assembly in November.
The Human Rights Council’s investigation began last March. Israel did not cooperate with the investigation, including barring investigators from entering the territory, saying that the council is biased against the Jewish state. The council has issued more resolutions regarding Israeli human rights violations than any country.
The report said that Israel “must, in compliance with article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, cease all settlement activities without preconditions. It must immediately initiate a process of withdrawal of all settlers from the OPT,” or Occupied Palestinian Territories.
Investigators interviewed about 50 Palestinians in Jordan in order to prepare the report. The report said that the Palestinians were prevented by the settlements from reaching their farming lands and water resources.
The report estimated that 520,000 settlers live in the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem in some 250 settlements.
This, according to the report, “prevents the establishment of a contiguous and viable Palestinian state and undermines the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.”
Israel’s Foreign Ministry rejected the report, calling it “counterproductive.” The report “will only hamper efforts to find a sustainable solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict,” the ministry said in a statement.
“The only way to resolve all pending issues between Israel and the Palestinians, including the settlements issue, is through direct negotiations without pre-conditions,” the ministry said. .
“The Human Rights Council has sadly distinguished itself by its systematical, one-sided and biased approach towards Israel. This latest report is yet another unfortunate reminder of such approach,” the ministry concluded.
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
the lies is that the GC applies at all. The problem is that discussing the parts of the convention is tacitly saying that it applies. For me, the refutation of the convention lies in designating its application to the Jews and Israel in the land of Israel to be ludicrous and disingenuous. The very fact of calling upon the convention against those expressly designated in law and treaty as the legal occupants of the land is a prime example of the willingness to swindle the Jews. Anyone who seeks to call upon the GC in this case is either ignorant or disingenuous. It is their ignorance or dishonesty which must be attacked. The ignorance is attacked by pointing out facts and law and the dishonesty is pointed out by the continuing effort to call upon the GC after becoming aware of fact and law. Red Herrings are related to focus of attention as a distraction. Discussing aspects of the convention by basically saying saying “if it were to be applicable then Israel is not guilty because….” takes attention away from the real point. If one has 2 paragraphs or 2 hours then none of it should be wasted by giving credibility to distractions. Stating why it is entirely inapplicable is ok but to say that the one who is born there is ok is the same as saying the others might not be ok because the GC is applicable. Sorry to disagree as I know you are helpful but I feel that the enemy tactic should be discredited with the derision it deserves, and by giving it credence the necessary accompanying derision is lost. What must be exposed is the lie of the GC in the first place, and where was this GC when Jews were cleansed from arab countries and why should a jew have any consideration whatsoever to apply the GC in aid of those who have ignored it when it should have applied to Jews? Just saying!
This is where it goes wrong! why would we do that?
Why do we keep giving the UN and EU so much credit. They are anti Israel, anti most countries, but pro Islam and pro Russian, after all the most of the head honchos are russians and now “peace loving” muslims are getting in on the act. Laughable.
What does God have to say on this: “I will prosper those who bless my chosen nation, but I will curse those who oppose her”. Don’t you think that is being played out for all those with eyes to see!!!. America would not allow anyone to tell them what to do or build in the own country, so what gives them the right to do that to other countries, especially Israel. And Israel is not building in occupied land, but in land fairly and squarely conquered, after the palestinians were soundly defeated in a war THEY started AND LOST. Self Inflicted.
Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld Said:
dear marjorie,
i am in FULL AGREEMENT with you, and especially the part that i have quoted.
HOWEVER, after the person has been explained the FACTS, repeatedly, that person ceases to be an ignoramus and is just showing his true colors. those of an antisemite.
dweller Said:
@ dweller:
I agree with dweller on the difference between an anti-Semite and someone who is merely ignorant of the facts.
I make it a habit to read comments following articles about Israel. One thing I’ve noticed is that many commenters seem to believe the U.N. partitioned Palestine (the part left after Britain had lopped off Transjordan and the Golan), giving half of Palestine to the Jews for a state and half of Palestine to the Arabs for a state way back in 1947. If you think this, you are obviously going to think that the Jews (or the Israelis) are stealing Palestinian Arab land.
Such people need to know that the partition proposal (Resolution 181) emanated from the U.N. General Assembly, and that, unlike Security Council resolutions made under Chapter VII, General Assembly resolutions are non-binding and function only as recommendations, needing agreement of affected parties in order to become binding.
The Arabs themselves rejected the 1947 partition proposal, with Palestinian Arabs attacking Palestinian Jews as soon as passage of the partition resolution was announced in November 1947. The invasion of the armies of neighboring Arab countries six months later (only a day after the Jews declared their State of Israel) completely destroyed any further ideas of partition. In fact, this U.N. idea of partition violated some of the terms of the Mandate for Palestine as well as the prior San Remo Resolution, both of which gave the Jews the right to settle closely on the land in Palestine–if not all of it, then certainly Palestine from the Jordan River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west. That includes Judea and Samaria (renamed the West Bank after Jordan illegally captured and annexed it).
Why the Israeli government itself isn’t making this point I don’t know. It should be reminding the world that Palestine is Jewish land, not Arab land. The 52 nations who ratified the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine and Japan, which signed the prior 1920 San Remo Resolution, as well as the U.S. which ratified the Palestine Mandate via the 1924 Anglo-American Treaty, should be reminded of their obligations under these legal instruments. And the U.N. should be reminded of its own Charter’s Article 80, which preserves the rights of peoples under previous legal instruments.
The U.N. Human Rights Council has reached new heights of absurdity in concluding that Israel is illegally occupying its own land! But let’s at least keep trying to educate those who don’t know the facts. They aren’t all anti-Semites.
@ Honey Bee:
They should go out to you for whichever articles you have posted to.
Do you not receive any at all, HB?
Sometimes they may arrive late. (I’ve occasionally received e-mail notifications a couple of weeks after the posting period for the article in question has expired!)
But they should arrive eventually.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Nor good law either, as I’m sure the attorney-types in our midst will concur.
— Qui tacet consentire.
Point.
Is there some reason why I am no longer receiving E-mail notification of the comments posted on the Israpundit. I due so enjoy reading them.
@ Bernard Ross:
Bernard Ross Said:
Bernard Ross Said:
Bernard, even so, the Geneva Convention is what the anti-Israel crowd brings forth as soon as any discussion on illegality starts in Europe. I see it on TV discussions, i keep on encountering it in comment sections.
There is nothing wrong with refuting this Geneva allegation, in addition to stressing the Palestine Mandate-generated rights to settle. It’s good PR not to let any lie stand.
The article by Kontorovitch is good because it takes the refutation one step further: even if we were to grant (for the sake of argument) that the occupation is illegal irrespective of the fact that there was no legal sovereign when the territories were acquired, and even if we were to grant that “transfer” refers to indirect transfer of population too, still the settlers born in the territories cannot be removed legally, because there is no sense of the term “transfer” (no matter how biased) that can apply to people who have been born in the territories, and therefore have not been transferred there (directly or indirectly or whatever).
the phoenix Said:
Which of these are you doing? the only ones who have the power to start the buses or annex the land are not interested. The problem, unless you are starting the buses yourself, is to convince those who can do it to do it. You are preaching here to the already converted.
@ Bernard Ross:
now that you have added this last part to the sentence, I could say without a reservation that I completely agree with your position.
Those that are good at wielding words should do so, nonetheless it should be understood that there is a time for speeches and a time to start the motors of the buses loaded with Arabs and other 5th columnists, to be driven back to the desert from where they came.
@ the phoenix:
ISRAEL IS GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE AND THE U.N. IS NOT ! I WILL STAND WITH ISRAEL , I’M A VIETNAM COMBAT VETERAN U.S.M.C. 1966-69 ! DON’T MESS WITH ISRAEL !!!!!
reply 35 to dionissis in moderation (how is that possible?)
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
I believe the GC discussions are a red herring which direct attention to a typical GC application and away from the real issue of Legal Jewish settlement rights.. San Remo, LON mandate, UN Charter art 80 specifically “encourages close Jewish settlement west of the Jordan river”. As this principle was not canceled, expired, rescinded or replaced it should be considered to still be in force. How can the same guarantors and signatories claim now that Jewish settlement is illegal. Their claim is that “Israeli” settlement is illegal. However, whether Israel is sovereign or not in the area between the green line and the Jordan river ANY administrator of that area is legally obligated to encourage Jewish settlement. Furthermore, a jewish state was seen to be the successor to the rights of the Jewish people so it is now ludicrous to reduce the territorial rights of the Jewish people which have heretofore been internationally guaranteed. Defending against the GC gives the GC relevance when it is actually entirely irrelevant in this specific case. The GC is the red herring of the enemy meant to swindle Jews out of their patrimony. The red herring should be ignored and disposed of in the rubbish bin. The mistake made by Israel, which the international cabal has taken up to signal abandonment,is not settling Jews under its administration. By not settling Jews it has been deemed to have waived the rights of global Jewry and of Israel. This assumption of the internationals needs to be disposed of by fully implementing Jewish settlement on a grand scale as an affirmative action program to restore justice to jewish legal rights. If Jewish rights of settlement are ignored and forgotten it gives weight to any future Israeli govt to repudiate all agreements and all Law.
@ Michael Dar: You are right! Jews need to become aware of how they have been swindled, and continue to be swindled with the negligence and complicity of the state of Israel,out of their internationally guaranteed legal rights to settle west of the Jordan River. Furthermore, they need to become informed as to how the players who guaranteed these rights are the same ones swindling them now. Once understanding the double standards of the players, and how they have twisted law and abrogated their agreements, they can cast of the hypocritical chains of self imposed mental slavery. They can either sue for restoring justice or unilaterally wield their power to restore justice to jews by force. it is a matter of will and the motivation to activate that will.
Geneva convention cannot in any way be applied in this particular case since it relates to the attack, aggression and occupation of a sovereign country of another sovereign (recognized) country. As everyone knows Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and Gaza were under illegal Egyptian and Jordanian occupation for 19 years when Israel took those territories as the for Israel successful result of Arab aggressions. There was never a sovereign, know country by the name of Palestine from which the Israelis could eventually have taken the land from, since no such state ever existed. Furthermore the above mentioned areas were designated and legalized by the League of Nations to become part of the National Homeland for the Jewish people. The UN is legally bound to observe every decision made by its predecessor which is inscribed in its own status and is irreversible. Therefore the UN’s 1947 partition plan was illegal in the first place, as is their unlawful position on Israeli communities in those areas. The Jews have, as per internationa law, the legal right to settle everywhere in the lands in which the world wants to created an artificial Palestinian state. Israel, as the aggressed party, has furthermore the right, as per the laws of war, to hold on to those territories at least until a just, peaceful and permanent solution is found to the conflict. The UN is an organization of corrupt serial law-breakers at the service of an “authomatic majority vote” made up of a gang of vicious human right abusers and massmurderers of the worse. kind
@ yamit82:
I always liked Bibi you don’t I would like to know why,because I respect your opinon.
@ yamit82:
Once again the story of Jacob and Levi.
@ Canadian Otter:
I thoght Canadians had such good maners.
My comment has been zapped by Spam Filter.
Re. Spam Filter – I have a theory. ~~~~~ It happens to all of us. A short, innocent comment is held for moderation for no apparent reason. So far I’ve never seen a consistent pattern indicating which subjects or which words are taboo. People discuss all kinds of things, sometimes in foreign languages, with no problem. So it’s not content. ~~~~~ MY THEORY is that Spam Filter is programmed to arbitrarily hold some comments according to a schedule. Maybe it is one out of every thirty comments. Just a way of showing the site’s owner that it’s alert and doing its job. ~~~~~ I try to compact my comments to 12 lines or less. Long comments are sometimes held, so why take chances. Also the limit seems to be two web links, maximum. And no more than two or three consecutive comments on the same column, because they can be interpreted as spam. Observing these rules seems to work for me most of the time. Unless it’s my turn on Spam’s Filter’s schedule to be censored. Sigh… This is how I picture Spam Filter, lurking in the depths of cyberspace 🙂
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2270671/Captured-dead-alive-Astonishing-pictures-bizarre-creatures-lurk-deep-beneath-ocean-waves.html
My comment has been held for moderation.
WHO NEEDS THE UN, when you have the Israeli govt to de-Judeize the country. The Vatican, a declared enemy of Israel and the Jews, has been honored as a negotiating partner for many years, with the aim of de-Judeizing sacred Jewish sites in the country, and handing them over to the Vatican. Now the Vatican can savor another victory, thanks to the present government.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
I have been arguing the same point to your Diaspora cosmopolitan elites of Mondoweiss, with regards to the use of Nazi analogies by Germans against Israelis.
Needless to say that around 15-20 of my numerous comments were deleted, but at least this time i didn’t receive the name-calling.
No, it must not:
http://opiniojuris.org/2009/07/16/transfers-and-deliveries/
Prof. Kontorovitch:
“Crucially, the [Geneva] Convention only bars action by the “occupying power” — in other words, the government and public authorities of the country. It does not apply to the movements and real estate decisions of private individuals. Various other parts of the Convention distinguish between “nationals of the occupying Power” and “the occupying power” itself; the prohibitions of Article 49 fall exclusively on the latter.
The birth of babies to civilians – we’re not talking Hitlerian birthing homes – is not a “transfer … of its own population” by any plausible definition. Indeed, the newborn is not even part of the previous population of the occupying power! So a significant proportion of settlers never “settled.””
…
“All of this means two things. First, there is nothing illegal about nationals of the occupying power residing in the occupied territory if they get there without being sent by the government, without being “transferred.” The scope of this category is unclear but must certainly include those born in the West Bank. Israel has no affirmative obligation to prevent migration, or to deny municipal services to migrants. Second, even those have been transferred are not themselves doing anything illegal”.
It’s high time the U(nited) N(azis) is kicked out of the US. Siberia is a better place for those monkeys or Gaza maybe.
@ the phoenix:
It depends. Some of the opposition are indeed bastards.
Others, however, are ignoramuses who have yet to consider the implications of the shallow claims that they latch onto so readily.
From a distance, it’s not always easy to tell the two species apart.
Giving them ALL the, uh. . . “impudent finger (you know which one I mean)” — without knowing which type of adversary one is looking at — is a mistake, IMABHO, for at least a couple of reasons.
For one thing, I find little value in causing an opponent unnecessary embarassment. (The Sages weren’t too taken with such behavior either, BTW — not that I offer this fact as justification for or against anything; only, rather, as an observation that I’m hardly the first to ponder the point.)
My other reason (for not flipping the bird indiscriminately to all opponents up front) is, frankly, more practical:
An ignoramous who, upon being confronted with the fact of his ignorance (and the implications of it) — may actually be a friend in disguise, and even an ALLY, who doesn’t know it yet. . . .
True, having been confronted with his ignorance, he may still choose to wallow in it — but even then, it MAY turn out to be a wallowing only for a season (most people have to PROCESS significant challenges, even when they do accept them — and that takes space). In any case, if he’s to get past his ignorance, he’ll first have to have the opportunity to see that it IS ignorance. From that point forward, it’s up to him.
My inclination is to give the 2 varieties of adversaries — bastards & ignoramuses — the occasion to sift themselves out for me (and for themselves, often quite in spite of themselves).
In the present instance that amounts to making them think about what they’ve mindlessly latched onto, and said (viz. — here, the contiguity ploy).
But beyond that, phoenix, remember — and it’s a reality that’s very easily overlooked in the heat of the moment:
Whenever you or I (or anybody else) post on this — or any other — public website, the poster is speaking not merely to the individual interlocutor with whom he is directly & momentarily engaged, but ALSO to everybody else who reads the articles & exchanges, including people who NEVER post; including, as well (potentially), anybody throughout the entire online blogosphere; not to mention posterity itself.
Whatever gets posted, stays posted — and what your interlocutor misses MAY be picked up by somebody else.
Why miss out on an unknown opportunity for the sake of the limited satisfactions of a mutual mudbath?
@ dweller:
Your comment is logical and rational. You are using the oponent’s own words and arguments against him. You are turning the tables, as it were.
Dweller, I wholeheartedly agree with this approach but where we differ is to WHOM we apply this logic…
To be more clear, I believe that any TALK, ARGUMENTS, DISCUSSIONS, ELOQUENCE etc are being TOTALLY wasted when directed at the wrong recipient .
Who are we kidding when talking about the UN, EU, and the rest of the garden variety antisemites and congenitally pathological Jew haters?
Do you REALLY think that any argument no matter how clever will have any value to these bastards?
As a matter of fact this is exactly like the approach I took with the American (btw, I left a comment for you on the ‘never leave a child…’ Thread…)
When this hate is part of their genetic makeup, I think it is totally useless to try and justify and prove them wrong…
They will hate the Jew NO MATTER WHAT so I say at the very least the Jew should oblige and give them a reason!
@ Yidvocate:
Goebbels assured that if a lie were outrageous enough, and told widely & frequently enough, it would come to be accepted for fact.
In his wildest fantasies, however, even HE could not have so much as dreamed that among the ADHERENTS to the lie would be included the very VICTIMS of the lie themselves.
So, contiguity is important?
Well then, a Pali state and Pali ‘self-determination’ are clearly out-of-the-question
— inasmuch as such a state would thereby render the existing, JEWISH state non-contiguous.
Since contiguity’s important, we can’t have THAT — can we?
What the UN thinks or says against Israel–is completely irrelevant!
And to hell with the Arab dogs who refer to themselves as palestinians!
“The report estimated that 520,000 settlers live in the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem in some 250 settlements.” This is the key point in the UN report. Demographic growth is going to bring a solution to this. Settler population beyond the green line has grown at a dizzying rate and further construction will only accelerate that. There’s no way Israel will go back. The phoenix is exactly right:
Israel must pull out of the UN.
the phoenix Said:
the phoenix Said:
reply 16 to phoenix in moderation, how is this possible: one sentence.
the phoenix Said:
Israel needs to become the bad guy and show the world a different face.
this is like watching a very low rated low budget amateur movie featuring the vilain and the good guy. while the ‘authorities’ are watching (wink, wink… nod, nod) the vilain is PREDICTABLY, stealing everything from the good guy, ganging up on him in an alley and beating him while being held and restrained by his gang…
we wince at each punch that lands on the defenseless good guy, but we know that at the end, good will prevail and the good guy will not only prevail but will also exact a price for the injustices…
but that is in a movie…
what is the reality?
the good guys do not get elected, and the land of israel is stolen and destroyed…in front of out eyes…
it is time for a miracle!
Yidvocate Said:
i am with you on that one yidvocate…
could shy guy’s ‘slogan’ be the real answer?
yamit82 Said:
You’re in good company with Rodney Dangerfield. No wonder Jews don’t get respect!
Bernard Ross Said:
You have leftists in Israel’s Foreign Ministry who employ such antiseptic language. Couldn’t Israel’s response have mentioned once inalienable Jewish rights in the Land Of Israel? There is no solution to be had with the Arabs. Tell that to the Stupid Jew who drafted this feeble retort!
What “Palestinian people” would that be? Would it be those that the Romans named in the 1st century A.D. No those were only Jews. Would it be those Arabs that don’t even have the letter “P” in their lexicon? How could that possibly be? Could it be those Arabs who adopted the moniker only after the Jews abandoned it in favour of the newly adopted name of their newly RE-established state of Israel. Definitely so!
So now we have these “Palestinian people” that sprung out of thin air in 1964 and who hitherto were Jordanian people, Syrian people, Lebanese people, Egyptian people, etc. but really not a distinctive people in any sense of the word other than, Arab people comprising the Arab Umma. Many of them went to bed Jordanian people and woke up the next morning as newly invented “Palestinian people”, indistinguishable in culture, history, religion and presence from any other Arab of the Levant and beyond, but yet somehow a “people” of the “Palestinian” variety and distinctively so.
I get how the antisemitic world buys into this trash, but what I will never understand is how we have come to accept it as some self-evident truth to our peril and ultimate devastation.
apparently the legal rights to jewish settlement dont deserve a mention. all that matters is a sustainable solution to conflict. What kind of sustainable solution totally ignores the rights of Jews?
@ AnObserver:
AnObserver Said:
Maybe that’s our problem, we keep being blamed and accused of things we haven’t done. Maybe it’s time to actually do what they blame us for?
I would support such a proposition.
yamit82 Said:
Barak just approved new construction in the Gush Etzion. Now they’ll really get angry and refer Israel to the ICC! Heh
yamit82 Said:
BB is a poker player who lets no one see his hand. He forgets that he is elected to represent and not to dictate without transparency. His most arrogant behavior is that he acts as if the citizens of Israel have no need to know anything about what their lord, and master, BB has in store for them.
AnObserver Said:
Syrians are being butchered, Egyptians are being gunned down in the streets of their own country, Iran executes dissidents and North Koreans are starving to death… but Jews living peacefully in their own land is the ultimate human rights violation in the UN’s eyes!
“Peacefully” – there’s your missing word that makes all the difference in the world. The most brutal crime in the world these days is the offense of being a Jew.
The GOI response is deeply disturbing. Israel has a legal obligation to world Jewry and to the international agreements(an remo, LON mandate trust, UN charter article 80)to “encourage the close settlement of Jews west of the Jordan river”. Even if the state of Israel does not wish to extend its sovereignty over the west bank, as the current administrator of the area between sovereign state of Israel(green line) and the Jordan river, it is still obligated legally to encourage the settlement. the question is : why does the state of Israel not take advantage of this obvious, simple, clear legal principle. something is wrong, something smells fishy when Israel AVOIDS the issue of Jewish right of settlement. What is it trying to avoid, what would such a declaration cause which would be a problem to the state of Israel? Is it merely a matter that it does not want to spend the money to protect Jews there, as this is what it must do as administrator if Jews are encouraged to settle there? encouraging Jewish settlement is merely a legal obligation of occupation by any govt and does not entail a commitment to future sovereignty, governing arabs or protecting jews. What is GOI really avoiding?
This, according to the report, “prevents the establishment of a contiguous and viable Palestinian state and undermines the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.”
Hmmm, then Canada should get out of the way and allow a direct land connection between Alaska and the Lower 48? Viability? Are they on Hashish?
Time to pull out the Levi report.
BB the wimp won’t even adopt his own commissions report. He is the worst of the worst of our infamously bad PM’s.
The UNHRC says Israel should be grounded and sent to the time-out room!
No one takes their childish antics seriously!
When it comes to a kangaroo court, its no surprise that’s its sentence first and verdict aftewards.
UNHRC who?
@ AnObserver:
MOST JEWS ARE NICE AND DON’T MASSACRE PEOPLE. ONE MISSING WORD MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
I wonder how the UN would react if the Hague and Geneva were to suddenly cease being places capable of supporting human life. The UN gets away with its crap since most are nice and don’t massacre people who repeated offend them, unlike certain other nations which form the majority of the UN.
No.
Israel must pull out of the UN.