By Ted Belman
Dennis Ross, in a panel discussion on the peace process yesterday at the President’s conference said that both parties had lost confidence in the other side;s intention to make peace. As a result, Israel must start paying settlers to leave Judea and Samaria.
My first reaction was to think that we should use such money to pay Arabs to leave.
But more fundamentally, he presupposes that both sides know what the deal will be and should work toward that deal. The problem is that neither side wants that deal let alone is willing to accede to the demands of the other side.
Thus no one wants to make a deal as they will get far less than they want. The status-quo involving no concessions is preferable.
So long as the Palestinians feel no necessity to make what for them is an unfavourable deal, they won’t. As long as the West supports them diplomatically and financially they can wait forever. Thus the first thing that should happen, but won’t, is for the West to withdraw such support. The second thing that should happen is for Israel to lift the freeze on construction in Jerusalem and J&S – whether or not the West will condone it.
Putting facts on the ground is the name of the game and the real battleground. The Arabs know this and thus focus their attention on building illegally in both places. The Arabs have abandonned the peace process. They also steal land by illegally cultivating it. Such activities puts Israel on the defensive particularly because she has imposed a freeze on our building activities and refuses to enforce the law on theirs.
If not this, what? Israel acts like peace is possible so waits for it to happen. She begs for negotiations which suggest that she is willing to compromise enough for a deal and refuses to do anything that would interfere with this possibility. That is also what the world demands.
Like the Arabs, Israel should also abandon the peace process and begin to act unilaterally to get what she wants unencumbered by the peace process.
What she wants is to keep all of Jerusalem and most of Area C. She should have a plan to achieve such goals instead of begging for peace.
@ Canadian Otter: Yes, I read the letter. I think there are many 3rd party legal possibilities that would bring the light to focus on the jewish narrative and jewish legal rights. I wonder if also a writ of mandamus can be sought to corce govt to act eccording to law and treaty by facilitating and “encouraging the settlement of Jews west of the JOrdan river. I think similar 3rd party legal action should be taken regarding the ethnic cleansing of jews from arab nations and the illegal creation of jew free jordan.
Canadian Otter Said:
I would like to know what exactly stopped the process, and who, as this might explain why jewish rights are never claimed?
@ Bernard Ross:
Suing the US and Israeli governments.
In 2009 the Office for Israeli Constitutional Law (Howard Grief, Mark Kaplan) had a similar idea.
They intended to sue the US for non-compliance with international agreements regarding Israel which the US Congress had been signatory to.
They sent official letters to the US government and then the process stopped abruptly before it could take off. One can imagine the pressure put on this small organization.
November 3, 2009 – The Office for Israeli Constitutional Law (Justice Now!) sent a letter to U.S. Special Middle East Envoy George Mitchell demanding the U.S. representative honor a treaty signed by the United States regarding the recognition of the Jewish Home’s national borders.
The letter reminded Mitchell that as a Senator he swore to uphold the U.S. Constitution and the supremacy of treaties as stated in Article VI which calls a treaty the “Supreme Law of the Land,” and that Senators and representatives are “bound by oath or affirmation” to support the Constitution.
The treaty in question is the 1924 Anglo-American Convention. In this treaty the United States accepted upon itself the Mandate for Palestine, verbatim. The Mandate includes the borders of the Jewish National Home, which comprise all Israel, Judea, Samaria, the entire city of Jerusalem, and much more. The Mandate, which is an act of international law, states that Jews have the right to settle anywhere within the recognized borders, and prohibits the ceding of any Jewish National territory to a foreign authority.
The United States also adopted the Mandate for Palestine as international law when the Mandate was adopted by the United Nations in 1945
The U.S. envoy was reminded in the letter that any demands on Israel to freeze construction within the Mandated borders or to surrender territory to the Palestinian Authority violates the doctrine of estoppel and is illegal under U.S. law.
Estoppel is a legal doctrine that prohibits a party from either taking action by deed or verbally that contradicts a prior agreement.
The OFICL intended to send a similar letter to President Barack Obama. The Obama administration was to have thirty days to respond or a class action lawsuit will be filed in the U.S. District court demanding the U.S. Government stop violating the rights granted through this treaty.
VERY INTERESTING LETTER HERE, WITH PLENTY OF BACKGROUND INFO:
http://www.justicenow4israel.com/mitchell_letter2009_10_30.html
I’m wanting to know: Does it make no difference in the West that Arab Muslims have lived in the Holy Land for 400+ years by dint of conquering it and killing Jews and Christians to get it?
Or that the land was stolen by the Roman Empire, the Jerusalem Jews kicked out and made to suffer unthinkable tragedies for 2000 years?t that the UN
Or that Arabs owe the Jews a huge amount of money in reparations for stealing Jewish property since the 7th century AD and that Egypt today refuses to turn over Jewish records covering centuries because they are afraid the Jews will ask for reparations?
And what’s the deal with Gazan leaders turning down a desalification plant that the UN offered to build for free for Arab children?
OK, Dennis Ross, what have you to say now?
Canadian Otter Said:
One possibility is that interested NGO’s and jewish agencies sue the UN, the Israeli govt,etc. internationally and in Israel, to cease to obstruct the mandated legal settlement of jews(all world jews) west of the Jordan river according to the UN charter and its precedents. Furthermore, political rihgts were only conferred on the Jews west of the Jordan(east of the jordan they have none) The process of the suits will force light on the legal issues which mandate the settlement regardless of who is sovereign over the territory. Israel can also be sued for not fulfilling its fduciary duty as agent for the jewish people by obstructing the prime mandate of settlement. All signatories to San Remo and the UN Charter are legally bound to facilitate and encourage this settlement. It should be tested in court after court.
yamit82 Said:
therefore the global solution is to ask the israeli far left and then pretend this is what Israel wants. This is why, aside from begging at the the american table, Israel has to put up with the arrogance and ignorance of successive self absorbed american diplomatic dunces. My own experience is that when Ron Reagan sent his caribbean basin initiative out they only spoke with private sector organizations to get their facts. Although I was on their side I was appalled at their strategy and ignorance and very unpleasantly surprised at the conclusions they thought were facts. This is why they fail on a consistent basis, they talk only to those who tell them what they want to hear. I suspect they have the same strategy collecting intelligence. The words of Dennis Ross are an irrelevant anachronism at best. I should hope by now after the Tom Friedmanns and others have lauded arab spring, that Israelis recognise that the judgement of these self styled pundits is zero. Where was Ross on arab spring? Only those who immediately saw it as an MB grab should be given any future credibility.
Dennis Ross is absolutly stupid if he suggest this kind of idiocy.
D.Ross = DROSS!
@ Paul:
True, Netanyahu (Peres-ra-hh) acts like the shtetl beggar when the US and European Union pressure him and he prefers to destroy Jewish homes in Yehuda and Shomron and persecute nationalist Jews to standing up to the US and EU. He is allowing Sudanese Arabs to infest Israel and he’s getting paid to keep them in spite of the harm they cause to the Jewish neighborhoods.
Dennis Ross is a kapo who wants to see Israel vanish piece by piece and make suicidal concessions to the Arabs. He does NOT care about Israel’s security and he did the dirty work for Clinton administration against Israel.
Everyone seems to be on the same page in this discussion. If the “Pubs” win the election in November, the J & S situation could turn, in spite of BB.
yamit82 Said:
Much like here in the US of A. How many Americans wanted to bail out the banks? About 1%. That didn’t stop our elites.
Israel has got to quit acting like a cowering Jewish quarter in some town in Spain and start acting like a Middle Eastern nation. She is a country, not a ghetto and needs to put the world on notice that she will not stand to be treated as less than that.
I submitted a comment to another article (“1967 Israel’s Peace Plan”) on June 20 – (awaiting moderation) – in which I questioned the idea that there is an “Israel” that can implement certain obvious policies that Israel needs for its survival.
We assume the “Israel” we refer to in our comments is the government.
But many of us know that the government DOES NOT represent the wishes of the majority of Israelis – only those of a tiny influential Israeli elite and those of some foreign governments and organizations.
Perhaps analysts could make this disclaimer every time they make suggestions for government action.
“We think that this would be the best for Israel – if only we had a government with our best interests in mind.”
Or, “We think that Israel should do this – as soon as we get a government that will listen to the people.”
Or, “We think that this would be best for our security – if only the people got tired enough of being manipulated by politicians and made clear that the government works for the citizens of the country, and not for a tiny elite and foreign meddlers.”
That way we would dispel the illusion that if only “Israel” understood the situation and act accordingly, everything would be all right.
Israelis understand the situation, for the most part. And so do their leaders.
The problem is how to get those leaders to feel that it is in their best interest to abide by the majority’s wishes. This would be the subject of another discussion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was reading some interesting articles by Paul Eidelberg on http://i-ari.org/ that also prompt the question – how do you get to implement all those proposed fundamental changes, without dealing with the present government first?
please wake up the moderator and release my comment.
thank you
Israel should find the right time and annex all Area C as it populated by Jews and is needed for defense and claims to it are better than anyone else. Leaving it is out of the question. Pay Arabs to leave it who live there. Also any east Jerusalem neighborhoods we can buy out the Arabs would also be good!
The 2 state solution is a formula for war with a lesser strategic position. Peace will come only from strength and not trying to appease others by moving out of any more locations.
The West is driven by the bias liberal left media and anti-Semitism and the Arab world feeds off of it.
Just maybe this should be the first and utmost regardless whether the West likes it or not.
Israel should allow communities to be built as this is Jewish land.
That’s what the Israeli government should want or they should be removed from power.
(please no moderation!!!!)
Agree
What Israel wants depends on who you ask. There does not seem to be any consensus and even if there is all governments ignore it and do whatever they want. What does the Israeli government want? Mostly to stay in power for as long as they can.
Dennis Ross has been likened by Shai Ben-Tekoa to a bad marriage counselor. I would add that the Pals get all the benefits of a no-fault divorce while Israel suffers all the consequences. In Israeli terms Israel ends up being the Frier and the Pals get a free lunch.
Totally agree.