By Ted Belman
Federica Mogherini, the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs said, regarding the leaked document reported yesterday
“It certainly was not on the ministers’ table today and it was not at the heart of today’s discussion,”
“There was certainly no question of isolating or sanctioning anybody, rather how can we re-motivate people to get into a dialogue again, how to start a positive process with the Israelis and Palestinians to re-launch a peace process.”
“Recalling that settlements are illegal under international law, the EU and its Member States remain committed to ensure continued, full and effective implementation of existing EU legislation and bilateral arrangements applicable to settlement products,” read the announcement. “The EU closely monitors the situation and its broader implications and remains ready to take further action in order to protect the viability of the two-state solution.”
“the future development of the relations with both the Israeli and Palestinian partners will also depend on their engagement towards a lasting peace based on a two-state solution.”
Again, I reiterate, Israel must accept the TSS for diplomatic reasons but must insist that ’67 lines plus swaps and dividing Jerusalem are out of the question. That will focus discussions on these issues and not on the TSS in general. Thus we position ourselves that we are not against the TSS but only against the demand regarding borders and Jerusalem.
Plus Israel must disabuse the world of the notion that settlements are illegal. If we can establish a foot hold here that the issue of their illegality is not decided as the EU maintains, then building east of the greenline is legal until such time as it is otherwise determined by a court of competent jurisdiction.
Israel should also stress that she is for peace but will not cross her redlines. If the Palestinians want peace they must compromise. So the question becomes who must compromise. That issue will be greatly affected by who has the greater entitlement to the land. That’s why embracing the Levy Report is so crucial. Judea and Samaria are not Palestinian land.
It is not enough to declare redlines. We must act to reinforce our verbal declaration. Build, build, and build.
bernard ross Said:
That’s a ridiculous statement Bernie.
According to Pew survey a majority of Jews wouldn’t lose much sleep if Israel disappeared. Having some emotional attachment in not translatable into anything actionable of any consequence on their part.
There is a wide gulf in real attitudes between VERY ATTACHED AND SOMEWHAT ATTACHED
very attached only 30% and somewhat attached 39% Is somewhat attached closer to very attached 30% or not very attached 22%??????
Survey doesn’t indicate the spread or even how to measure????
Every time there is conflict here Israelis respond to the national crisis in total mobilization like IDF 110% show up for Duty American Jews for the most part stay home and those here run for the hills, except the christians Zionists who not only stay in the country but continue to come as if nothing was happening.
They (christian Zionists) how a far stronger commitment to Israel than do American Jews. I say this as a matter of fact and public record. Israelis come home from abroad American Jews run for it.
bernard ross Said:
I don’t ignore it. Why do you think it’s relevant?
If they were more supportive and militant in their support of Israel they wouldn’t be as harassed.
@ bernard ross:
Wednesday, September 3, 2014
ZOA: New Poll: 60% Pal. Arabs Reject Accepting Existence of Israel
Survey: Most Israelis, Palestinians support 2 states
But large majority doesn’t see Palestinian statehood happening soon; 30% on both sides support a single state
Read more: Survey: Most Israelis, Palestinians support 2 states | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/survey-most-israelis-palestinians-support-2-states/#ixzz3JbqZv5Mq
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
Zionist Organization of America
News Release
bernard ross Said:
Israelis, overall, are less negative than their neighbors in the region about prospects for accommodation between Israelis and Palestinians, but even they are divided about such a possibility. Forty-five percent of Israelis say their country cannot coexist peacefully with a Palestinian nation, while 40% express the view that such mutual accommodation is possible.
– Regarding conflict resolution: Consistent with previous results: =
62% of Israelis and 54% of Palestinians support a two-state solution June 2014 survey
probably less support since recent spree of Arab terror.
****Then consider there is no other options being asked in these polls; a yes or no answer only.
June 25, 2014
Mounting Pessimism about Two-State Israeli-Palestinian Solution
In the above survey over 50% are against!!!! Today probably more.
Add more options and the numbers supporting will drop.
yamit82 Said:
61% support 2 state peacful solution just like the coalition gov
43% say caring about Israel is essential to being jewish and another 44% say it is important to being Jewish totaling 87% consider caring about Israel to be important.
What are the equivalent figures for israelis?
@ bernard ross:
support for Israel based on age demographics according to 2013 Pew survey
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-5-connection-with-and-attitudes-towards-israel/@ <a
yamit82 Said:
You appear to ignore that many jewish students and protesters are being ostracized and attacked for Israel’s behavior. therefore, what Israel does also affects the diaspora.
yamit82 Said:
I agree, but I believe the idea of tough love, seeking foreign pressure on Israel, arose from within Israeli left calling for outside interference.
yamit82 Said:
point taken…however I was talking about political support of the state. I think american Jews have a higher percentage of support politically than Israeli Jews. American Jews tend to be less political in their support and more emotional and therefore tend to support Israel regardless. the Jstreet and college kids do not represent the bulk of american jews.
I think you went off on a tangent…I support Israel doing what it wants without pressure from the outside for the reasons you state. However, I still recognize that the problems Israel and diaspora jews are currently encountering arise primarily from the failure of successive govs of Israel to debunk the lies and canards of Jews being illegitimate in any part of Israel. I believe the lies have grown and festered. I also believe there are solutions which I have enumerated and I dont believe it makes sense to ignore it in the hope it will go away. I don’t see it as a matter of pride but of tactic and strategy. I dont even think that the primarily diplomatic and Legal strategies are rocket science but would have a large impact on changing the narratives from being one sided.
@ honeybee:
What I did above was a classic example of what I DO, in fact, do with nonsense. I showed HOW and WHY it was nonsense by setting the record straight
— and then promptly brought the discussion back on-point.
You, OTOH, have a curious habit of interjecting yourself into an exchange in a manner which tends to throw it OFF-point — and from which it rarely ever returns to its point-of-departure.
In short, you’re a distraction, HB (probably more from habit attached to your history than from actual intention) — and because people indulge you in that habit, which serves only to reinforce it. Yet you seem unconcerned about mending your ways.
bernard ross Said:
Really? How so?
Let’s see how many missiles are falling on diaspora Jews heads? How many suffer daily from terror attacks and those attacks are non- discriminatory everybody gets a chance here to be killed. Leftists, rightists, Zionist and anti Zionist etc. How many of your sons and grandsons and daughters spend 2-3 years really defending the nation and the people of Israel? How many spend 20-30 years doing reserve duty 30-50 days a year on average. How many of diaspora Jews pay the % of taxes and pay 50-100% more for consumer goods and food. how many diaspora Jews flew 1500 miles to rescue other Jews many not Israeli citizens? How many of diaspora Jews work in agriculture on the land in any form draining swamps dying from malaria and brigands? How many in the diaspora really contributed to building a Jewish state however imperfect? Who saved distressed Jews from around the world and brought them to Israel?
What % of Western especially American Jews have ever been to Israel? Much less than 20% and most are repeat visitors.
What % of Jewish money goes to anything Jewish and to Israel?
(less than 5% of of Jewish donations to all causes)
Tell me how they contribute more and are more supportive than Israelis again? Remind me to show you our walking wounded and the graves of mostly non diaspora Jews.
You fail to comprehend to salient point every Jew living here towers above any Jew in the diaspora for so many reasons.
We here in Israel no matter our differences and conflicts between us have a shared and common destiny and that destiny is not the same as the Jews in the diaspora.
In the Army the great equalizer is to learn to trust the next guy in the same fox hole no matter any differences.
We here in Israel are occupying the same foxhole and in the end that who we must trust and count upon….!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Diaspora jews already defend Israel. probably a greater percentage of diaspora Jews than Israelis.
yamit82 Said:
I agree, and many of those enemies reside in Israel
yamit82 Said:
You are the one who is always defaming US Jews in entirety, not their individual behavior but as an entire collective. I merely point out the different sectors in Israel and show how THEY undermine the legitimacy and safety of all Jews including Israel. the Jews of Israel are no less responsible for the Jewish people than the Jews of the diaspora. I identify a problem that arises primarily in Israel and running away from facts and putting heads underground does not change the facts or dangers. It is irrelevant to frame this as a war between the 2 Jews of Israel and diaspora, the war is between loyal Jews and disloyal Jews who exist in both camps. however, I identify that diaspora Jews are greatly influenced by Israeli Jews when taking a policy on israel, there is probably more support for any gov of Israel in the diaspora than in Israel.
bernard ross Said:
I expect them to support and even defend the official and or consensus I expect to support and defend generic Israel. Any position in opposition to the Jew haters and anti Israel bashing by our detractors. I don’t care whether they agree…. This is bigger than narrow politics or individual egos. Disagreements and arguments can be had within our respective groups and constituencies and in those arguments and debates each side can sway or not the other to their positions but to the outside as Felix would applaud a united front solely because we Jews need to stick together. In fact we are commanded in the Torah to stick together against all those outside our collective…
for 35 centuries this concept of “Kol Yisrael Arevim Zeh B’Zeh” (“all Jews (or all the people of Israel) are responsible for one another.”) is the principle followed and the one responsible for saving the Jewish people and Judaism.
This commandment is unconditional!!!!!!!
“And this promise to our ancestors is also for us! Not only once have they risen up to destroy us but in every generation they rise up to destroy us. And the Holy One, Blessed be He, saves us from their hands.” “She-lo Echad Bilvad Amad Aleinu L’chaloteinu,” there hasn’t been only one wicked ruler that has attempted to wipe us off the map.
The greatest challenge facing the Jewish people is not from our enemies but rather, from our internal discord.
Jews who side with the enemy are our enemy no less.
Every serious and rational Jew in and out out Israel can find somethings to dislike about Israel but to use those reasons to avoid solidarity and to even side with our enemies is treasonous.
@ honeybee:
You should be telling this to Yamit, not me.
I answeredyour comment.
But he picked up on it.
So I answered him as well.
@ honeybee:
Why would I do that?
What I said is that you’ve assumed my remark was ‘perverse.’ But you’ve haven’t shown that it IS ‘perverse.’
And as I’VE now already shown, you’d have a hard time doing that.
dweller Said:
Didn’t just do what you claim you don’t do, Fido !!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
I completely agree but which “us” do you expect them to defend….which Israeli position….the current one where only security is the issue? The diaspora jews support Israels position, but the right wing religions and nationalist position is NOT the position of the state of Israel. The official position of the state is a 2 state solution subject to security issues which appears to be exactly what Obama and the EU call for.
@ yamit82:
Not unsubstantiated. The facts are not in question.
All that is in question are the reasons for it.
“Disagree” as to what?
Are you saying that Jews DON’T especially give a damn about law?
Right. When you told them you were making aliyah, they just said, ‘have a nice life, pass the carrots please.’
Now you’re just flattering yourself, boychik. When I respond to nonsense, it is always in spite of any bone throwing — not ‘because’ of — and strictly for the purpose of setting the record straight.
I realize you’d love to believe that, but you’re just not my type. Don’t take it personal.
yamit82 Said:
you miss the point, it is not about pride or respect, it is about recognizing the power of words, canards, libels and how for Jews they led to delegitimization and pogroms. Israel pays attention to winning wars assiduously but is totally off the wall in recognizing the power of those repeated words and why Jews everywhere are suffering from it, including in israel. the jews and Israel were supposed to have learned from Goebbels not to underestimate the power of words and yet here we have successive GOI’s who keep believing it is all just talk that will blow over.
yamit82 Said:
I cannot gain from Jews losing their future anywhere.
yamit82 Said:
it is not an us or them…diaspora Jews support Israel in general and always fall behind Israel in war in the same way that war appears to be the only unifying factor in Israel also. there is not disagreement with a particular GOI or leader that has not even been more vociferously voiced first in Israel. Diaspora jews tend to look to Israel to decide what is best for Israel but what comes out of Israel is incredibly confusing and the diaspora reflects that same confusion. it is unbeleivable to me some of the things I hear from Israelis that I never heard in the diaspora. When religious leaders and leftist jews agree that Jews are illegitimate on the Mount or in YS then what can be expected of ignorant diaspora Jews. The only Israeli position that is clearly enunciated as a consensus in Israel, regarding YS and peace, is security. With such a view from the GOI it becomes apparent that Israel is willing to give up the land if it has security which then renders any Israeli who settles in YS or goes to the Mount as a religious or right wing extremist. This view arose from Israel.
I have spent my life and career identifying problems and coming up with solutions. Israel is able to deal successfully with the military aspects but not with the diplomatic and legal aspects. The immediate start is for the state of Israel to alter its declarations regarding the legality and legitimacy of Jewish settlement in YS. I keep saying that on the diplomatic front the FM should call in all the prior signatories to the LON mandate etc and DEMAND that they cease to obstruct Jewish settlement, state that their actions are breaches of treaties and legal agreements, call them liars or ignorant,….. such declarations and actions do not in any way necessitate the alteration of negotiations with the state of israel and the pals but it would bring into the limelight the main legal issue: Jewish settlement. Israel proceeds diplomatically as if everything is a negotiation whereas the jew murdering pals have successfully presented themselves to the world and principled resisters. This is due more to Israels stupid MO than anti semitism. Israel has given the world nothing to hang a hat upon other than security. When the state of israel recognizes the rights of jews to settle in YS then things might change but until then the world is only following Israels lead.
@ bernard ross:
Israel on the surface looks and acts like a wimp true enough and a case can be made that seeming appeasement and only leads to more of the same on steroids.
That said, Israel has become very proficient at this game. With regards to Europe we have in actuality given little away due to their pressure and have gotten much. We are the only non EU country to have a special relationship with preferred status no other non EU country enjoys.
EU spends billions in Israel especially in academia and financing cultural and infrastructure projects.
Israeli sport individuals and teams admitted to Europe becase the Arabs pressured Asia to ban us.
Preferred conditions for Airbus and for things like German subs two which were given free.
Tourism projects etc. Israelis are the biggest land developers on Eastern Europe ,there is a too tight a relatioship for it to go south… Europe has always wanted in the peace negotiations and Israel has always kept them at arms length without much negative responses……
Have to look at the big picture and not just headlines there is a lot going on under the public radar good and bad.
yamit82 Said:
Israel has allowed it by ignoring it and hoping it will go away. I do not understand why they cannot even utter the words…the weakest nations are able to utter words to defend themselves verbally. Israelis die in won wars only to be threatened on the diplomatic and legal front. Why do nothing, why say nothing, why lose lives before attempting other sensible options. Of course the Jews globally are being called the worst of names and being physically attacked, the world got away with it the moment they were allowed to say that Jewish settlement in israel is illegal or illegitimate. From there it was just a matter of time from the libel to the pogrom.
yamit82 Said:
Sorry can’t agree. they qualify their statements with
Not illegal in Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem”
not illegal in areas we know we will keep
not illegal in Jerusalem
what I have not heard is this:
Jewish settlement is both legal and legitimate in any part of the land of Israel.
or even:
Jewish settlement is legal and legitimate in YS
You do not consider this important because the only value you see of such a statement is what result it will bring in a court of law…but that is the last of my considerations. I consider it to be a strategic and tactical weapon to use to fight the enemies just like cyber warfare. Almost everything happening is relating primarily back to this one canard and libel which the state of Israel refuses to debunk or counter.
Even the recognition of a pal state stems from this libel. the euros view the Jews as illegally stealing pal land and the GOI DOES NOT deny this fact. therefore, their narrative is to recognize a pals state to stop the greedy jews from stealing their land.
yamit82 Said:
Yes, in the same way enemies constantly develop new weaponry and Israel must counter those developments. I believe it is folly to ignore that which so obviously and detrimentally governs Israels actions and behavior. Europe employs their weapon in a successfully Goebbelesque fashion while Israel puts in head in the sand like an ostrich. Hardly anyone other than knowledgeable Jews, even consider the thought that jewish settlement in YS is completely legal and legitimate or even that there are completely legal documents signed by many nations who now state the opposite. why win wars and lose lives only to be thwarted by words, its not as if these words do not have a devastating effect. Why do nothing in this regard? Had israel been regularly repeating this mantra then YS would have already been settled by jews. Sure there would be a stink by the enemies just like there was a stink when Israel attacked enemies or bombed Iraq reactor. at least some folks would have been aware of and supporting the position of legality as opposed to now where only security is considered a legitimate reason for not immediately giving the pals their land.
ALL of the current problems and libels wrt YS and Jewish settlement begin with Israel not at a minimum verbally defending the legitimacy and legality of Jewish settlement. Even if the nation of Israel did not want anymore land it could have taken the principled position that it will safeguard the settlement of Jews in YS according to international law while at the same time foreswearing any claim to further land for israel. it could have operated the same as the British mandate and settled Jews. My belief is that any nation or entity in control of the administration of YS is legaly obligated to settle Jews. israel is there anyway protecting its security interest while not seeking further land. there is no legitimate reason for Israel obstructing jewish settlement in the vacant land of YS. Israel could have created an affirmative action program to bring diaspora jews to YS.
yamit82 Said:
I am for Israel, BUT I am also for the settlement of the Jewish people in YS and it is obvious that the nation of Israel IS NOT. I support the state of Israel in the choices they make for themselves. However, I do not believe that Israel has the legal or moral right to foreclose the interests and legal rights of the Jewish people of the diaspora to settle in YS. Israel had the option to do both as it is militarily there any way for its own security interests. It need merely state that although it is not interested in further land it has a moral obligation to “facilitate the immigration and encourage the settlement of Jews” in YS. It has the option to bring diaspora non Israeli jews to YS without giving Israeli citizenship to them and when the legal purpose and interest of those Jews is fulfilled they can through self determination decide what they want then. Israel can then avoid any claims under th GC for stealing pal land or for even wanting pal land, it merely follows a legal and moral obligation.
dweller Said:
My comment was addressed to YOU, not to Yamit82.
dweller Said:
Are you asking me for justification?????? Look to yourself .
Buzz of the Orient Said:
The court of THE ALMIGHTY no other court matters.
yamit82 Said:
People will treat you the way you teach them to treat you !!!!
yamit82 Said:
Some type of infusion ?????????
yamit82 Said:
Jacob and Levi ?????????????
To what court do you put the question? Is there an unbiased international court?
@ dweller:
You have made many times the same unsubstantiated claim re: Jews and Law. You never state IMO but as a substantiated fact. I disagree. I don’t have to disprove any opinion, even your. But you do have to substantiate your claim you state as an obvious fact.
If you can’t it’s only your unsubstantiated opinion and IMO is total BS like everything else you state.
My family? Was waiting for your fucking psychobabble to show itself. Can’t resist, you sick freak can you?
FYI whether you believe me or not I have never discussed the subject with any of my family. Never!!!!! They Love Texas and NYC.
One more thing. Any time HB throws me a bone she has a willing retriever. But it seems every time I throw you one, you are just as if not more more willing to chase mine.
Sit Fido sit!!!
I think you got the hots for me dweller but I hate your guts and much prefer women to sick creeps like you. End of discussion.
@ yamit82:
Quit fantasizing. It’s not even in the ballpark.
Even if that were true (it isn’t, but even if it were), it wouldn’t make the opinion “perverse” — only unestablished.
As to the ‘substance’ you find lacking, you know (in large part) the same Jewish history that I know. I’ve given you my take on those facts as to the reasons for Jewish behavior. It accounts for those facts at least as well as any OTHER (including yours) that I’ve heard. If you find it faulty, show me how.
But saying, “if it’s true for any of them they are not real Jews in my playbook so fuck em,” is not a response but a RANT from a frustrated soul infuriated at not getting his family (probably his parents’ immediate family in particular) to see things his way.
They aren’t ‘MY’ facts. They are what they ARE. Take ’em or leave ’em (though you’d be SMART to consider them).
Furthermore. . . . UNLESS you can show that in their nature, my assertions baldly accuse somebody of some wrongful or dishonorable behavior, the burden is on YOU to show those ‘opinions’ faulty, not on me to show that they aren’t. CAN you? Yet you called them ‘BS.’ Fine; so show how they are ‘BS.’
Your ‘definition’ dances around the fringes of the term but utterly misses its essence. {Apparent) obduracy, unreasonableness, irrationality, etc, may all be PART of perversity, but of themselves not even all of them together are SUFFICIENT.
The closest you come to the TOUCHSTONE of perversity is in the word I’ve (ever-so-graciously!) bolded for you [above].
That is, perversity presumes conscious INTENTION or desire to be contrary for its own sake. Can you show THAT to be the animating factor in my above remark? If not, you’re SOL, even if my assertion is totally ‘untrue’ (tho it isn’t untrue even at that).
A seeming irrationality or obduracy without a clear intent to be contrary does not constitute perversity. You cannot, IOW, be ‘unwittingly perverse,’ or ‘inadvertently perverse’ or ‘unintentionally perverse.’ You gotta have the wanna — or it’s not perversity. Verstehen sie?
And these empty-headed & persistently grasping, clumsy little forays of yours make you look like a BOZO to me — and to others, I daresay, too polite (or too chickenshit) to say so.
Why don’t you quit these distracting, sophomoric games, Yamit, and just get on with telling me where and how you think I’m mistaken in saying that Jews need to know they’re lawful to have the confidence & resolve needed to fight for their interests? (Leave all the body english off the ball & just get down to the straight skinny.)
Or have you already forgotten that that WAS the topic of discussion before HB threw you a bone and you ran down the hill to chase it, yapping like a fox terrier all the way?
@ honeybee:
I think perverse is on the money. He again supplies opinion without substance or any objective survey for corroboration.
He may be entitled to his own wrong opinions but not his facts unless he can prove them.
dweller Said:
adjective: perverse
(of a person or their actions) showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable
synonyms: unreasonable, obdurate, irrational, unreasonable, wrong, wrong-headed
antonyms: reasonable 🙂
Law: (of a verdict) against the weight of evidence
“Perverse” Looks like a Bingo to me.
@ honeybee:
Really? — what’s ‘stupid’ about it?
— You DON’T think Jews have a thing about Law???
I usually DO have explanations for my statements. However, I’m not aware of making any ‘perverse’ ones.
If you can establish that I’ve made a perverse one, you can pursue your question (assuming you have one), and I may accommodate that pursuit.
But if you ARE going to establish that my remark is perverse, you’ll have to do better than to merely assert (or imply) that it’s unusual and expect THAT to get action from me.
Takes more than uncommonness to make something perverse. The Inquisition found Galileo Galilei’s statement — that the earth revolved about the sun (instead of vice versa) — to be ‘perverse’
— sufficiently ‘perverse’ to warrant offering him a gilt-engraved invitation to a down-home barbecue party w/ GG himself as the guest-of-honor (invite revokable only on condition of his publicly changing his mind).
WAS his proposition ‘perverse’?
OR you could just back up and ask your question (if there is one) SANS judgmental adjectives, and we can address it as if you had an open mind accustomed to being courteous.
@ yamit82:
Oh? — I daresay the Authority who (quite literally) CALLED the Jewish people into being would disagree (and He’d disagree not very respectfully either, if His history is any index to His outlook):
“I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me”
— those other ‘gods’ — those other authorities — include other JEWS, boychik.
It’s not a matter of being ‘convinced’ by other people. The Jew needs to see it for himself. If he doesn’t, he’ll be crippled in his best efforts, even if he tries to persist. Can’t do an end-run around his own conscience. He’s just not structured that way. His hard-wiring simply won’t allow it. I didn’t make that decision or ordain that condition; that’s the simple, iron-clad reality, and Nobody asked my opinion when it was put in place.
Take it up with Adonoi.
— HE would say the concept YOU are peddling is BS.
“Catch it” for what? — catch it for making her life more problematic in the world?
— or catch it because you were truly outa line?
dweller Said:
Such a stupid thing to say. Do you ever have any explanations for perverse statements.
Any Jew who places any loyalty to any other authority over his own people is no Jew. I am not speaking about the exceptions for family and maybe closest friends but If we have to convince any self proclaimed or one who identifies as a Jew of where his primary loyalty should be regardless of his or her perception of lawfulness on the part of Israel, to any other standard they by definition are not Jews. Placing conditions for Jews to support other Jews from a Jewish perspective is an oxymoron and a contradiction of what it means to be a true Jew. This is not for some of us an academic discourse but a matter of life and death for many of us…
Those same Jews who sat on their collective asses safe and physically well while 6 million went to the ovens will never live it down. They are largely doing the same thing today…. We here who know the score also know that we can’t ever rely or depend upon those Jews. Even where they conviced according to you today the justice of our positions that doesn’t mean that tomorrow next month and next year we will have to reconvince them every time there is an action by Israel they either don’t understand or agree with….
That concept you are peddling is pure BS.
My poor mom defended me hundreds of times knowing I was wrong in public but at home boy did I catch it…. On a collective level that’s how we expect other Jews to behave towards us.
@ yamit82:
But it’s not bullshit, and if you think it is, then you don’t know as much about Jews as you think you do. So you just go on shooting the messenger and wondering why it feels like you’re constantly batting your head against a brick wall when Jews keep leaving your “playbook” lying unopened along with all the other dust-collecting tchachkes and busted nick-nacks cluttering up your coffee table.
The Jews are a peculiarly lawful people. We were made for law. The Law is in our bones, in our DNA — more so, perhaps, than in that of any other people that has ever trod this earth. In fact, the Jew’s sense of “territoriality” is grounded more in his sense of lawfulness than in that attaching to any piece of land or other physical or intellectual property.
Give him the unshakeable assurance that his interests are indeed lawful, and — astonishingly — a Jew’s strength, skill, wit, resourcefulness, and determination will be all multiplied exponentially in the pursuit and defense of those interests. Might as well call the phenomenon magic — because it damned-sure behaves as if it were . . . .
bernard ross Said:
If Israel were dependent on the behavior of our shitty leaders past and present we would have closed up shop in 1948 and in almost any year afterward.
It seems no matter how bad they seem to be and how many mistakes they make we somehow thrive… There is no reason to believe the trend will not continue. Sure there are bumps in the road and ups and downs but the trend is positive in all measurable areas of our society and culture even sports.
The truth is whether you agree or no like it or not Israel no longer needs or is dependent on American Jewry, but American Jewry is dependent on Israel for it’s very survival as Jews and even here I have strong doubts it wwill be enough.
That I wish our leaders and government would act differently with pride and self respect as Israelis and as Jews sure I do. But so what I bet on our future over yours anyday.
If what I say turns some off too bad. prove me wrong with facts not hyperbole.
dweller Said:
BULLSHIT and if it’s true for any of them they are not real Jews in my playbook so fuck em.
bernard ross Said:
I’m sticking up for the Israeli government present or past. If you don’t think the Euros would not come up with any other reason or none like this is what they demand because it’s in their perceived interests and peace overrides all other considerations and they see Israel as the stronger party able to make concessions etc etc. They have leverage with Israel and very little with the Palis.
In the end they will always find a reason or invent one. Israel has stated that the settlements are not illegal and I’ve seen both BB and other Reps saying it in public and reportedly in private. Fell on deaf ears. The Euros keep it up whether England or Scandinavia even France.
Europe is not monolithic in Foreign policy the EU in Brussels seems to be mostly on the same page…
Nobody purchases from Israel any product because they like us or agree with us. They buy because it’s in their economic interests to do so.
Israel doesn’t have to purchase Mercedes (made in Turkey) or the latest hit seller Skoda!!! or Airbuses, There are other options.
There is nothing Europe sells us that have no non European replacement. Hitting some of our industries and business only forces our companies to aggressively look for alternative markets and there are.
I say Israel has become the European whipping boy mostly because we have allowed it and they are used to it and so in a way are we.
@ yamit82:
Maybe so, maybe no.
JEWS would give a damn.
Jews (in Israel or anywhere else) will not chuck the Galut mentality w/o an inner certainty that their interests are in fact LAWFUL interests.
Meanwhile, champagne bottles are being uncorked in Brussels to celebrate the filthy, dead Jews murdered by their Pali-nazi heroes.
Nothing pleases a European more than a dead Jew. It is what that entire filthy sewer of a continent lives for.
yamit82 Said:
Israel cannot even flaunt its diplomatic, legal and language power. Israel appears to be cowed by a single sentence or word. I cant imagine a nation who cannot even speak flaunting his military power to the same goal upon which he is mute.
yamit82 Said:
Europe gives a damn as everyday they mention it and work on sanctions based on it. Also, those Israelis whose business is affected directly and indirectly. its the most used basis for damaging Israel economically and diplomatically.
Perhaps if an Israeli gov had the initiative to mention that it wasn’t illegal and why, and instituted diplomatic action to demand compliance with signed agreements, we wouldn’t hear about it as much.
Con artists keep playing his sucker with the same con until the sucker wises up. cant blame the euros for keeping up a working con while his sucker has his head in the sand. it makes no sense whining daily about what others are doing without mentioning why. The only thing the gov ever says it it doesn’t help peace or security but never mentions the legal basis for the LON constituting the current state: settling jews.
I wonder why?
Too much concentration on the term legal…. It will never be put to any legal test . Nobody but those commenting on this and similar sites gives a damn….
Call them a hindrance to peace and illegitimate or some other Orwellian term and it is translated in the minds and policies of all Israels enemies as illegal.
All Israel need do is the chuck the Galut mentality that demands and seeks the Gentiles approval and to stand firm on our interests and to be able to withstand any economic and geopolitical blow-back. When the nations see Israel will not be cowed they will back down especially if Israel flaunts our not so inconsiderable military and economic power.
After a year or two with a steadfast Israel it’s reasonable that our enemies will find some other cause or urgency to concern themselves and leave us alone…
@ Bear Klein:
Those suggestions are the absolute minimum what’s next?
@ D. Bene:
Israel!!!!
Netanyahu will do that? Never.
Ted, you are correct! Israel must implement the Levy report and declare all building for Jews in Judah and Samaria legal. We should immediately build in E1.
Still searching for the law that proclaims Jewish settlement in israel to be illegal.. all I can find is where the europeans signed internationally binding legal documents which obligate them to “facilitate immigration and encourage Jewish settlement in the Palestine mandate territory”
I am also still waiting, for decades, for a government of Israel who is able to mention to the world, in passing perhaps, that jewish settlement is legal and legitimate in all of Israel. Until they deign to mention that fact, or perhaps they believe it to be fiction who can tell, the world will have to keep believing the only thing they are ever told, with no contradiction from Israel: that jewish settlement is indeed illegal and illegitimate?
Perhaps the cause of confusion might be that settling citizens of the state of Israel in occupied territory, as determined by Israeli courts, is not the same as settling Jews which is legal and encouraged. Perhaps Israel should concentrate on settling non Israeli Jews in YS to comply with the fine print and thus avoid the confusion, and discussion, of the GC entirely.
From what source does the EU get the idea that a peace-compromise is an absolute “must” have? (with such an agreement apparently agreed-to by Israel at some point)
Quite so. Those who make the claim are “begging the question.”
— They are assuming facts that have not been established.
How quaint. The EU has “legislation” affecting what is not theirs in any respect.
Lets vote legislation regarding who can live in Paris, Antwerp, Bonn, Madrid, etc. And by which date those not allowed by our legislation must vacate….