Not only did Bibi release the prisoners he also agreed to accept ’67 lines plus swaps. As I said in my earlier post to fight for a little more land was not worth the isolation. Also, the cabinet has yet to vote on whether to release Arab Israeli prisoners. Ted belman
Decision to release prisoners legitimate. Israel’s increased isolation, Iranian nuclear threat left PM with no choice but to accept Palestinian demands
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s decision to release Palestinian prisoners stems from strategic and security-related considerations. There is no doubt that the increase in the number of prisoners slated for release and the inclusion of Arab Israelis in the group constitutes a capitulation to American pressure and Palestinian obstinacy. This is why it is so hard to accept Netanyahu’s decision.
But the opposition to such a move is not merely emotional. The decision to release murderers who are citizens of the State of Israel and allow them to return to their homes causes severe damage to Israeli sovereignty and the justice system the country is so proud of. The argument can be made that a precedent has already been set and that the murderers of Israeli civilians have been released in past prisoner exchange deals, but this time it is being done while surrendering to pressure applied by the Palestinian Authority, not by a terror organization, as was the case in the past.
The PA is becoming the representative body of the Arab Israelis – both legally and diplomatically. But a look at the overall picture, while considering all of the options rationally, leads to the conclusion that the prime minister, with the support of the defense minister, made the right decision, for two main reasons.
The first and most important reason has to do with the Iranian nuclear program. Over the next few months, apparently by next spring, Iran will have the capability to produce a nuclear weapon, on all its components, and will become a country on the brink of weapons capability. During this time Israel will be able to stop the Iranian nuclear program, should it receive support and legitimacy from the West, and mainly from the US.
The release of Palestinian prisoners is a reasonable price to pay for something that is so crucial for the State of Israel, at least according to Netanyahu’s security doctrine.
The second reason is Israel’s diplomatic isolation, which has intensified over the past few months and has become a real strategic threat to the State’s economy and the morale of its citizens.
Israel’s increased isolation is the result of the Palestinians’ successful propaganda campaign in the UN’s institutions, coupled with semi-violent unrest in the West Bank. A clear indication that this isolation is becoming an economic and diplomatic threat is the EU’s recent decision regarding the settlements, and there are a number of other similar measures the Palestinians are ready to pursue. Some of these measures relate not only to the European arena, but even to far off Australia.
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Protest outside PMO against release of prisoners (Photo: Gil Yohanan)
The opening of negotiations with the Palestinians is supposed to stop this process – mainly the Palestinian protest maneuvers in the UN – and give Israel some breathing space.
Israeli government officials who took part in the discussions on the release of Palestinian prisoners confirmed that Netanyahu’s decision was based on these two assumptions. But it is safe to assume that the PM had another reason for his decision to release the prisoners: Preventing a violent third intifada in the territories.
Both the IDF and Shin Bet have detected a sharp rise over the past year and a half in the number of incidents involving the throwing of stones and firebombs in the West Bank. For now it appears that the PA is able to contain the violence, but the army and internal security service estimate that an intifada will erupt unless progress is made on the diplomatic front.
In this regard, it is important to note that revolts are taking place in all Arab countries, with varying levels of violence. The Palestinian Authority and Gaza are the exception, and Israel has an interest in preserving this situation, at least for another nine months – at which point the peace negotiations, as well as the release of prisoners, are expected to conclude.
Preventing or delaying an intifada in the territories will obviously help Israel focus on the Iranian threat.
Therefore, the decision regarding the Palestinian prisoners was difficult yet reasonable in light of all the strategic advantages it gives Israel. Plus, as I’ve mentioned, a precedent has been set. Israel has released terrorists on a number of occasions due to external pressure. At least this time around it is being done as a gesture to a man who publicly supports a non-violent struggle.
yamit82 Said:
part 3
IN my view Israel is plagued with short shortsightedness and blinded by tactical details. Its problems stem from from negligence of the importance of hasbara, diplomatic activism and especially Lawfare. By neglecting these areas Israel is only reactive and therefore lacks policy, plans and direction. If those areas were engaged with the seriousness of war, with specific goals and detailed plans, and Israel became pro active on attack the tide would turn and the enemy wold be reactive. the enemy picks and chooses the battles now. Those who believed that these endeavors were irrelevant cannot fail to see that the entire EU decision hounding the govt is the libel that Jewish settlement in YS is illegal. The govt has been doing nothing and it has come to haunt the nation. Elkin is part of that perspective in not being able to see the forest from the trees. Many with the same goals appear to be unable to clearly idntify their goals and unite with others seeking the same but more importantly have no plans of battle to reach the goals. They just want to bob and weave until the fight is over.
yamit82 Said:
further to my first part still in moderation
reply 47 to yamit in moderation
yamit82 Said:
I read the entire interview and because my time is limited I will say only a couple of things right now. For me, Elkins thinking is an example of the muddled thinking of the right. Most of his thinking on the negotiations is based upon what he believes the Pals will or wont do rather than actually having a policy. He also contradicts himself in the very next sentence. the first example of what is wrong shows clearly in your quote: He was asked a direct question relating to his job in diplomatic activism and gave an answer which was entirely unrelated. He can’t even focus on the question asked relating to his own position.
Here is my answer if I were in his position and my answer is related to his position and to diplomatic activism: being proactive rather than reactive without a plan.
Ross answer:
I would call in the ambassador to every state and organization which was a party to San Remo, LON, UN and state my govts displeasure with statements regarding illegal jewish settlement. first I would state that those statements are libelous and ask that they be retracted and never used again. second, I would clearly show that they contradict prior statements of the same govts and orgs. Third, I would state that the statements and resulting action are a breach of treaties and understandings which obligate their govs and orgs to facilitate jewish immigration and settlement in YS. I would ask them to present a plan as to how they will rectify their behavior and mitigate the damage. These are words but the govts of Israel are not even capable of words. I think I would be a better foreign minister.
I am outraged, and have never held as low an opinion of Bibi as I do now. Only a few weeks ago, I saw him quoted as saying there will be NO MORE concessions, and it was the Palestinians’ turn to make some concessions.
Where is the Bibi who, not much more than two years ago, humiliated Obama in his own White House, in front of the U.S. press corps and the country, with his “we are not going back to ’67 lines, and the Palestinians are never getting right of return, and everybody knows that” scolding? What happened to that guy??!!
Bibi should not have done this, not even over Iran. He should have told Obama:
“Fine. Let Iran go nuclear. I’m sure your friends and puppetmasters, the Gulf Sunni Arabs, they will just love that. And they don’t have missile defenses like we do. And they don’t have a retaliatory capability like we do. That will take many years for them, if they ever get it. And by the way, if and when Iran does go nuclear, we are putting our forces on ‘launch on warning’ alert. The computers will detect an attack and automatically launch at a wide range of pre-selected targets. Take my word for it: the world as you know it – including and especially all of your Arab friends, not just Iran – will then come to an end. We have faith in the reliability of our computers – we invented most of the technology in yours – and you better have faith in them as well. For if one of our radar operators so much as sneezes on his screen and mistakes the boogers for incoming missiles, it is curtains. We’ll take that risk. Will you? Will your friends? But we will NOT capitulate to these murderer Palestinians, any more than you would capitulate to Al Queada [hmmm…maybe shouldn’t have said that…you ARE capitulating to Al Queda…].”
Israel should simply have hit Iran before, and even now, assuming the capability still exists, with such force that it won’t matter if Obama tips off the Iranians. Objectively, there is nothing to lose by attempting this, insofar as Obama is NEVER going to hit Iran, and he’ll NEVER acqueisce in Israel’s doing so. I cannot see him doing this, unless…UNLESS…his Arab pimps are now so scared of Iran, that they will “order” him to do so…and as that just might be coming anyway, then Israel should have to give up nothing for this. Short of that, Israel is and will be on her own in this, no matter what concessions she makes. If Netahnyahu believes any “promises” made by Obama, he’s a lot dumber than I thought.
If there is an Intifada, Israel should simply crush it and get rid of the PA/PLO once and for all.
Israel would suffer in the short term, but Israel would survive. In ’48 and ’67, she faced far longer odds. Who was buying Israeli exports then? This past year was a record one for Israeli arms sales, I understand.
These concessions will only lead to more concessions, for nothing. Unless the Palestinians recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, and amend the PNC accordingly, as they promised to do at Oslo and later, predictably, reneged – without this assurance, Rabin would not have signed Oslo, and here we are twenty years later and still no recognition – then ANYTHING else they agree to means NOTHING. Probably would mean nothing even then, but the key is this: Once they DO recognize Israel, this confers upon Israel, by the Palestinian’s OWN reckoning, the right of self-defense when – not if – they violate the peace agreement, which then restrains Israel’s “allies” from penalizing her for doing so. But a state of questionable legitimacy has an equally questionable right of self defense. That is the card the Palis are playing, and why they won’t budge on this.
Recognition by the Palis of Israel as a Jewish state and requisite amendment of the PNC to reflect this SHOULD HAVE BEEN the precondition for TALKS, and only TALKS, and not a single other Israeli conessions, other than sitting down and talking. Obama himself, even if he was lying through his teeth – probably was, his “normal” mode – backed Netanyahu up on this issue in March. Netanyahu should have held him to that like a pit bull to this day.
This “global isolation” is total b.s. That is a cop-out for not stating Israel’s case properly, a cop-out for a lack of leadership.
I’ve never been more disgusted and demoralized by the behavior of Israeli leadership…(except for maybe the time when Olmert gave his infamous ‘we’re tired of fighting, we’re tired of being right’ shpiel…should have been tarred and feathered and run out of the country for that).
Facebook Page of PA Negotiator Headed to Washington Shows Entire Israel Under Banner of ‘Palestine’
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/07/29/facebook-page-of-pa-negotiator-headed-to-washington-shows-entire-israel-under-banner-of-palestine/
http://www.trendingcentral.com/palestinian-negotiators-facebook-page-betrays-true-anti-israel-aspirations/
honeybee Said:
thanks,.
The children of Israel are going to have to take a stand. Don’t leave it up to politicians.
@ honeybee:
@ yamit82:
In their memory: http://youtu.be/U8VQz69Id7c
bernard ross Said:
I know my Dear Bernard, I know.
@ yamit82:
thanks
Everyone connected with this despicable release, including those pressuring Israel to do it, cannot have a tear shed for themselves or their families if they suffer fates similar to these victims of terror. It can only be considered to be justice, there could be no regret. I cannot imagine the betrayal that must be felt by the families of the victims to know that this is not only being done by obama and kerry but also by so called jews of israel.
A “peace” built on such cynical foundations cannot be attractive or worth having
I would have difficulty sending my son to fight for the cause of such an immoral nation of people.
Imagine, a vanquished people have demanded prisoners from their conquerors and the conquerors accede to the demand. The conquered have no position of strength except that given by the conquerors. Who would ever believe such a thing. This is beyond anyone’s wildest imagination. The conquered has humiliated the conqueror and the conqueror fumbles for excuses. Everyone should think about this actrion carefully. This was not the only “gesture” that could have been given, it was demanded for a reason; this is a demand for humiliation and the jews face has been rubbed in shit and the memory of slaughtered jewish children has been pissed upon. Have they no shame?
@ yamit82:
You noticed me Rhett. Tex has been making up Wiener jokes all day****HELP. My relatives are Wienners,not wiennies.
There is an interesting item on Brietbart about the SE tex/mex border.
@ honeybee:
Ouch
@ yamit82:
Obama will not release them because he will suffer policticaly,but he seems able to twist the Israel arm at will.
@ bernard ross:
Deputy FM: ‘Netanyahu wrong to back Palestinian state, and it’s hurting him in Likud’
Pro-settlement hawk Ze’ev Elkin sees little prospect of progress at talks, because ‘the Palestinians haven’t budged a millimeter for 20 years’
@ yamit82:
“So when is Obama going to release prisoners of war Tsarnayev & Major Hassan ? “
@ bernard ross:
It was a Friday morning, during the first month of my internship at Jerusalem’s Shaare Zedek Medical Center. I had been on duty the day before, and I was supposed to be on duty on Shabbat, too. At 9:30 A.M. I left the hospital and went home to sleep a little. But before I had even reached the Ramat Eshkol neighborhood, I heard the explosion. There were no cell phones at the time, so I continued toward home in order to contact the hospital. They told me that there had been a major attack, and I should come back.
When I arrived at the emergency room, I couldn’t get in. The entrance was blocked with the dead and injured. That was in the old hospital building, which was built in the late 19th century. The entrance hadn’t been planned to deal with the explosion of booby-trapped refrigerators in Zion Square. The hospitals were not yet practiced in dealing with mass terror attacks, and the ambulance drivers and private vehicles that brought the victims simply unloaded them at the entrance to the emergency room and went back down Jaffa Street to collect other victims.
Someone pulled me over to try to resuscitate a little girl. Maybe 10 years old. I think her name was Ahuva’leh. But I couldn’t do much. There was also a boy about her age. I remember the shouts: Shebi! Shebi!?? And there were others. Many others. That attack murdered 15 people and wounded 60, some very seriously. We entered the operating room and performed surgery until the following morning.
I’ve seen many attacks since then. I’ve been in wars. But that was the first attack in which I served as a doctor. You don’t forget such things.
The person who brought the refrigerator to the Russian Compound and loaded it onto a wagon in order to take it Zion Square was Ahmed Jabara, aka Abu Sukar. The word sukar means “sugar.” A sweet man. When caught, he was sentenced to life imprisonment plus 30 years. But 27 years later, in 2003, he was released by then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon as a gesture in advance of the Aqaba Summit, so that the talks about a road map for the upcoming peace, which were held with U.S. President George W. Bush, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and King Abdullah of Jordan, would take place in a positive atmosphere.
Abu Sukar enjoyed his freedom for 10 years. A few days ago, he died of a heart attack in Ramallah at the age of 78. He was buried with full military honors in his village of Turmus Aya. Abbas sent a wreath, along with his personal representative, Tayeb Abdel Rahim, who read the eulogy written by his boss. “A pure soul” Abbas called him in the eulogy. “A righteous man and a loyal fighter, who devoted his life to defending his people.”
Senior Fatah official Jibril Rajoub promised on his Facebook page to continue to follow the Sugar Man’s path of struggle. Abbas Zaki, a representative of Fatah in Lebanon and member of Fatah’s central committee, described the Friday that is so deeply etched in my memory as “a wonderful, high-quality operation, using a refrigerator, which caused the enemy sleepless nights.” The Shabiba, the Fatah youth movement, mourned the death of the hero of the refrigerator operation, declaring that his death was a loss to all free people worldwide, and to the entire human race.
As is customary with the PA, and with its leader, Abbas, who is known as an opponent of terror, streets and city squares, kindergartens and schools, libraries and perhaps even a refrigerator company will be named after Abu Sukar.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu plans to release another 120 murderers like Abu Sukar soon. But in order not to be seen as someone who releases murderers just to gain an entry ticket to the talks with Abbas, he plans to release them gradually, during the course of the talks. Prepare the handkerchiefs.
Laura Said:
Laura Said:
You did but, it doesn’t hurt to repeat it.
@ yamit82: Is this the only place Eldad publishes? I wont pay to subscribe to haaretz, I prefer they go under.
Freeing jailed murderers will move us away from peace
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.538064
A member of Fatah’s central committee described the bombing that is so deeply etched in my memory as ‘a wonderful, high-quality operation, using a refrigerator, which caused the enemy sleepless nights.’
By Aryeh Eldad |
It’s worthwhile for everyone to read this article.
READ ALL COMMENTS!!!! The Shit is out in force.
Israeli Political Theater?
Probably!!!
Journalist: ‘Heavy Heart’? Don’t Believe It
Journalist says talk of tough decisions, close vote on prisoner release are government spin.
@ yamit82:
This is essentially the point I made in my comment.
MK: Let’s Just Shut Down Shin Bet
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170371#.Ufa8YKyBbfg
MK Shaked expresses frustration over prisoner release: “Why invest so many resources chasing terrorists, if they all go free in the end
“You deserve each other”
@ yamit82:
Arab Media: Negotiations Invite to Include ’67 Lines’
PA daily says official US invite to talks will include ’1967 lines’ despite official Israeli stance.
There is no reason not to believe them. BB is a pathological liar.
@ yamit82:
Shin Bet Head Warned Ministers: Don’t Release Terrorists
Yoram Cohen told ministers that releasing terrorists would hurt security, diminish deterrence.
Akunis: Govt. Misled Me on Terrorist Release
Deputy Minister claims officials involved in negotiations intentionally misled him.
yamit82 Said:
The Scarlette O’Hara option, as I suggested,Mr Butler.
Ted Belman Said:
True. But why? Why Now?
We know BB is a serial capitulator. He has NEVER
in his political career stood up to pressure at home or abroad.
I see neither benefit or profit in this latest capitulation for Israel. As of only a few weeks ago the PM and his flunkie stooges were proudly putting forth to all media that Israel was demanding no preconditions for entering into talks. What value anyway talks that are conditioned upon bribes and the humiliation of one of the sides?
Because politicians like BB have no moral compass or vision of where they want to take us. They are all about maneuvering to maintain their hold on political power. There are money junkies and Power junkies and in BB’s case he brings them together in his persona. He is known for his paranoiac lack of trust in anyone and has none to few friends, he uses people and discards them or they run from him after getting a close up view like Bennett. he covers the blowback from his discards by getting them good positions for their silence. In short he demonstrates deep seeded psychopathic and sociopathic behavior.
When BB agreed to release prisoners he knew he had to spin it to convince enough ministers to be on board, if that didn’t work he threatened them that he would replace them as ministers. Usually when a Politician makes such incomprehensible decisions he has his spin-meisters appear all over the media explaining why or hinting why. In this case there was nothing and BB was his own spinner, “Open Letter” Sat night).
What happened overnight from “NO PRECONDITIONS” to not only freeing the worst of the Terrorists but adding Israeli Arab prisoners to the list?
My gut tells me that BB’s own weakness of character overcame him and he agreed to give Kerry and Obama a freebee and all the rest is spin to cover the CRIME and it is a crime a criminal act whose legality I question but I don’t question the immorality of the decision.
BB invited the Head of the Shin Bet (Shabak the the cabinet meeting hoping to get support but the Head of the Shabak himself told the ministers that releasing these terrorists was a bad idea and dangerous for Israels security. I guess he had not heard what the great benefits Israel was to receive, and I guess BB forgot to tell him. Yet most of the ministers supported BB not on the merits but because their political future for now is tied to BB. How would it look to Israelis and the world if they quashed the decision after BB agreed and Kerry announced it in the name of Obama. Notice nobody waited for the Cabinets approval before announcing the decision. That in-itself is a form of pressure to ensure complete capitulation by the cabinet. Such things are not done by vassals to their masters. 🙁
I think Israel is Americas only true Vassal State. Everybody else knows how to say NO, and the sky didn’t fall on them either!!
bernard ross Said:
What this capture BS? SHOOT-SHOVEL= SHUT-UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sugar
This is simply WRONG! BB’s best defensive should have been a good offensive. Why can’t he get that?? When he was pressured by the U.S. admin to release prisoners he should of said Say what??? Practise what you preach. Show me how it’s done. YOU release over 100 of YOUR WORST CRIMINALS in exchange for a good relationship with us. BB lacks confidence. Giving away more land??
honeybee Said:
HUH??? I meant upon capture.
bernard ross Said:
Do you mean abortion?
honeybee Said:
that solution should be at the beginning.
@ bernard ross:
In Texas we have a FINAL SOLUTION for prisoners!!!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
I dont understand your question in relation to my comment.
honeybee Said:
I dont know. I am discussing, one by one, the 3 reasons given for the release of prisoners
bernard ross Said:
As I said before ;you need to proof read!!!!!!!!! How can you sue for peace when there is no war!!!!!!!
this important statement appears in isolation with nothing further offered about it. I believe this is a very important issue deserving of discussion on its own due to the questions it raises regarding the realistic future of arab Israelis. should they be represented by the PA and in a final solution should their status as israelis be reevaluated?
this is a continuation of the same leftist ad nauseum argument that the pals can be bought off being violent by giving them whatever they want, molly coddling them and kissing their butts. It is hard to believe that even the left continues to use these most ludicrous arguments but here we see this leftist canard employed as an apology for the behavior of an alleged rightist. This grasping at straws for reasons indicates desperation of a bankrupt apology.
The best preventative, and ending, of intifada has always arisen from kicking butt rather than kissing it; sad but true.
How absurd it is to keep pushing the rubbish that appeasement works.
A conclusion reached whose chutzpah is only matched by its absurdity. The conclusion is as absurd as the premises. The only premise advanced with a shred of reason is Iran and we cannot know what is the truth, we must proceed on trust, confidence and reason even when the most ludicrous of reasons are offered for consideration.
Laura Said:
Thank you Laura, you” splained me”.
bernard ross Said:
Splain me Mr Ross, why are Israel and the Pals have “Peace Talks” when there is n war???????
Obama is trying to shore up his failed foreign policy at the expense of Israel.
Obama has no interest in wielding power against our enemies, he appeases them. As for allies, they don’t listen to him. The Egyptian military essentially told Obama to go pound sand. Israel is the only country that he can push around. It makes him feel powerful. And Bibi is the only world leader who’s afraid of Obama. The rest know he’s weak and don’t take him seriously.
I was taught to solve a problem by attacking the problem at hand rather than create an unrelated “solution”. It appears to me that solving the problem of the Pals successful propaganda should take place in the area of propaganda,activism, lawfare, etc and that releasing prisoners is completely unrelated. Furthermore, the idea of releasing the prisoners on the hope that the pals will be more merciful in their propaganda attacks actually invites an increase in those attacks. It is a non solution; a pure BS to even advance it as a reason. Regarding the specific example of the recent EU “jewish settlement is illegal” decision the same applies: the solution is in the problem, the false libel of illegal jewish settlement has never been attacked by Israel or Jewish institutions. This problem was entirely created by the incompetence and negligence of the GOI and continuing the approach of ignoring it is absurd. The obvious answer to this problem lies in attacking the libelous canard rather, again, than releasing prisoners in the hope the EU will stop its libels.
This second reason given is ludicrous and undeserving of being tabled.
What economic threat. Israel’s economy is doing better than Europe’s.
wan’t this also an argument for disengagement some years ago: that the US will do something about Iran if only Israel will…..etc, etc etc? Although I agree that there might be some deal involving Iran BB is on a slippery slope dealing with known swindlers of Israel who usually have the upper hand. This appears to be a case of “unless you know the deal you cant evaluate the action”….. or in other words “security and strategic reasons”……as usual. Kind of depends on ones trust and level of confidence in the couple of people pulling it all off plus beleiving they are not subject to personal extortion or blackmail from the US. The last perpetrator is apparently under coma and unable to be investigated..
@ Ted Belman:
Ture that!
@ LtCol Howard:
Good post, you are always on on target.
@ Ted Belman:
It is not so simple. Obama announced in front of the UN General Assembly on September 25th, 2012 that, and I paraphrase, he won’t let anyone denigrate the name of the Prophet. So logically speaking this is not a surrender to Obama but to islam.
BTW, welcome back!
NormanF Said:
This is a surrender to Obama.
An Israeli surrender to the Arabs merely buys Israel time.
But the man who cannot stand up to Arab pressure is not the man to stop the Iranian nuclear bomb.
A more vulnerable Israel simply won’t have the means to do it. And the Iranians and every one knows it.
My Hezbollah contacts keeps quoting at me the Chinese proverb: “he who can be made to take one step backwards, can be made to take 1,000 .”
Why is it that the Arab Associates who hate Israel (and probably all Jews) are so sure that only a tough stand by Israel will convince the Arabs to stop murdering Jews …..and Jews like Beilin,, Livini and Peres are so convinced that “this time it will be different” ….no matter how many Jews are slaughtered by chasing their illusions.
The comments and postings on this site fully document that American commitments are worthless. Worry about Iran… Yes! Get any tangible action from the US to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear capability… Hell no!