I agree with Greenfield. If we have Assad/ Iran/Rusia in Syria, the West will support us. If the MB take over supported by S. Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, the US and the EU, the US and the EU will restrain us just as they do when we confront Hamas or Fatah in J&S or Gaza. Ted Belman
Why Bombing Syria Will Not Help Israel
By Daniel Greenfield, FPM
One of the more familiar arguments for bombing Syria is that it will help Israel.
Israel doesn’t need that kind of help. Israelis successfully destroyed a Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007. During the Syrian Civil War, Israel has carried out a number of strikes against Syrian targets. If anything, NATO intervention will stifle Israel’s ability to operate in Syrian airspace as it is kept out of the fight for political reasons to avoid offending Muslims; the same way that it happened during the Gulf War.
Syria, Iran and Hezbollah have all threatened, openly or covertly, to bomb Israel if an attack happens. And there is every reason for them to do it. Drawing Israel into the conflict is the trump card of Muslim countries worried about being bombed by the United States. The one thing that panics NATO more than anything else is having the Muslim world think that it is fighting Israel’s war. And it is likely to counter that by preventing Israel from fighting back.
On the security front, the total collapse of Israel’s border with Syria into armed terrorist camps is far more disastrous than an Assad victory. Combined with the growing unrest in the Sinai, Israel is being confronted with dangerously unstable borders held by terrorist groups on almost all sides.
Assad is a dangerous enemy, but one that can be checkmated through threats of retaliation. The Jihadists taking his place have no country and will hide behind a civilian population of human shields forcing Israel to play the same defeatist humanitarian games to minimize civilian casualties as in Gaza.
The Arab Spring has brought Israel to the brink of facing Hamas’ Muslim Brotherhood parent group in Egypt and in Syria. Considering how much damage Hamas managed to do by using human shields to prevent Israel from striking back, life on the Golan Heights could become very ugly indeed.
Furthermore a Muslim Brotherhood victory in Syria would endanger Jordan. A Muslim Brotherhood Syria would be in an excellent position to bring down the Jordanian monarchy, arm Jordanian Palestinians and take down Israel’s last stable border.
Morsi sowed chaos in the Sinai during his very brief rule. A Muslim Brotherhood regime in Syria consolidating power completely after a bloody civil war would have even more freedom of action.
Those arguing for intervention often bring up Iran. But the motives for bombing Syria have nothing to do with Iran. The best evidence for that is that Samantha Power, Obama’s ambassador to the UN, actually spent a good deal of time trying to reach out to Iran and convince the regime to cut ties with Syria over its supposed WMD use.
If stopping Syrian WMDs were really a step on the path to stopping Iranian WMDs, Samantha Power would not have followed such an absurd course. Instead Power and Obama want to negotiate with Iran, but want to bomb Syria.
It’s not Iranian WMDs that they are concerned with. It’s helping the Sunni rebels win in Syria. And rebel victories in Syria are far more likely to put WMDs into the hands of terrorists than the status quo.
Likewise the claim that Obama’s credibility on Syria must be preserved to protect his credibility on Iran is without substance. Credibility is only an issue with Iran if we assume that any amount of pressure or sanctions could compel it to give up its nuclear program. No such methods have worked or will work.
The sanctions regime is nothing but a delaying tactic to allow Iran to complete its nuclear program. Discrediting the idea that Iran can be intimidated into giving up its nuclear program is the best way to shortcut to an intervention that might actually stop Iran from going fully nuclear.
Obama has some credibility when it comes to bombing Syria. He has no credibility when it comes to bombing Iran. The sooner that Israel and everyone else understand that, the sooner Israel will be free to take whatever steps it needs to and that will free us from playing along with Iran’s negotiations maze that leads nowhere except toward the inevitability of an Iranian nuclear bomb.
Iran knows that Obama wants to bomb Syria as part of a pro-Sunni intervention in a regional religious war on behalf of Saudi Arabia and that this project has little overlap with its nuclear plans for Tel Aviv. Credibility in fighting Saudi Arabia’s war is not the same thing as credibility in standing up for a country that Obama has spent two terms kicking around.
The United States bombed Iran for Kuwait in 1988 and Iraq for Kuwait in 1991. And then we bombed Libya for Saudi Arabia in 2011 and we are now contemplating bombing Syria for Saudi Arabia in 2013. It has been reliably established that if a Muslim country with oil really needs us to bomb someone, we will do it. But Israel is in a different category. It isn’t an oil-rich Muslim country.
Bombing Syria adds no deterrence or credibility to an Iranian nuclear scenario. It only warns Ayatollah Ali Khamenei that he can nuke Israel, but that he had better not touch Saudi Arabia.
Obama wrangled Israel into an awkward Sunni Islamist coalition between Erdogan’s Turkey, the House of Saud and Morsi’s Egypt. And Prime Minister Netanyahu went along with it. But now Egypt is bowing out of the Islamist camp and returning to the way things were before the chaos of the Arab Spring.
It is in Israel’s interest to likewise reset the situation in Syria.
The Hezbollah-Syria-Iran weapons pipeline will remain a threat, but the Shiite axis will be more isolated than ever and the Shiite devil you know may be better than a Muslim Brotherhood axis menacing Israel across multiple borders with the support of Washington D.C. And a more stable region with fewer militias raiding WMD compounds will be good for Israel.
The Middle East of four years ago was not an extraordinarily good place for Israel, but it was a better place than it is today. Israel could do worse than a regional reset. The Arab Spring in North Africa may be irreversible, but in its immediate neighborhood it is already being reversed.
Bombing Syria will not help Israel, which will be in the firing line for a war being fought to benefit Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
And the Muslim Brotherhood.
honeybee Said:
http://www.ultimateecards.com/images/image-e11c53aa12dbaaaae44829b19322e964-sorry-card-008.jpg
Is that better???
honeybee Said:
Oh yeah, How many?
yamit82 Said:
I weeping so copusly J can’t see the keys, sob,sob: http://youtu.be/B0eEszXwndk
@ honeybee:
Better watch out, I cook for these boys: http://youtu.be/NWMksT4_GOI
This is their favorite: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/ess/different_dumplings.php3#.UjI_ijj5QzA.email
yamit82 Said:
I HOLD all the power!!!!!!!Darlin. Why are you sending me photos of nasty little girls??? What’s your Ph.D. I hae a post hole digger,if you need to borrow one.
honeybee Said:
yada yada yada
@ honeybee:
When you hold all of the power… degrees are irrelevant.
@ honeybee:
Thanks I saw her she hasn’t changed much over the years.
yamit82 Said:
Its astounding to me that anyone with so little practical experience would ever be considered as a source or advisor. It really shows how incredibly poor their jucgement is. What’s even worse is that her miniscule practical experience was spent advocating for the same syrian rebels. Its pathetic to imagine that such a child is actually involved in such serious matters.
what a bunch of keystone cops. It would be hilarious if it was a 3 stooges segment, what is frightening is that these clowns actually run a real country not just a fantasy country invented by Borat. I could not imagine in my wildest dreams a more pathetic display of incompetence. None of them could even operate the toilets of any business I ever owned. I definitely get the feeling that a freshman college class was given the country to run as a term project, and half of them are smoking pot(that half probably performs better). I feel that I am watching sesame street whenever those children give a speech. Their depth is of the same level, one gets the feeling that they need to be given positive reinforcement and encouraged for their next project like little children. In horror, I then remember that they actually run the US.
@ yamit82:
Your friend Victoria Toensig was on Neil Cavuto’s program
When Israel hits Syria, it hones military edge for wider war
Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/when-israel-hits-syria-it-hones-military-edge-for-wider-war-816955.html?utm_source=ref_article
bernard ross Said:
Think tank knew about O’Bagy’s Ph.D. question long before firing her
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/11/think-tank-knew-about-obagys-phd-question-long-before-firing-her/#ixzz2ehwEfoVw
How Obama Views it?
yamit82 Said:
Does Putin have a Ph.D,darlin, if not wouldn’t worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A Plea for Caution From Russia
What Putin Has to Say to Americans About Syria
bernard ross Said:
Having been educated by Ph.Ds and have more then few of them in the family, I say “THAT IS GREAT NEWS”. Spare me the over educated!!!!!!!
Oh Darlin, don’t tell me!!!!! Y’all have Ph.Ds, did I insult you??? Those that can,do!!!! Those that can’t do, ge Ph.Ds! y’all.
yamit82 Said:
I think she became a gross embarrassment when it appeared that a little piss ant still in college was being quoted by, and forming the basis of, sec. of state and US foreign policy.
A college student dissertation was dictating US foreign policy. 😛
How’s that for credibility and confidence?
bernard ross Said:
yamit82 Said:
Her credentials, Just published: http://youtu.be/1t49mdSvZyY
@ bernard ross:
She was just fired not because of her reports but that she lied about her academic credentials. At least that’s the story put out.
bernard ross Said:
Iam waiting for a situation where the world demands Israel give up all of our suppoed WMD’s and Israel replies “Sorry we ain’t got any more, we Just used them all.”
@ bernard ross:
Same deal as with Gaddafi. It took 7 years to destroy only 40% of the Libyan stockpile and Assad has 5-19 times what Gaddafi had.
It’s BS. they will need a small army to inventory and guard the stuff in the middle of a civil war? Right 🙁
How much Assad can hide and give to Hezbollah???
BS deal and more dangerous than what we have now.
How will US and Israel react if Syria and Russia say they will be happy to destroy the weapons but Israel must do the same? BB has been calling for the destruction of their weapons. How would the world react?
bunch of novices give them their ideas. little no nothings with degrees run the US
Hezbollah’s Support of Assad Creates Conflict With Southern Lebanon’s Sunni Population
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/09/11/hezbollahs-support-of-assad-creates-conflict-with-southern-lebanons-sunni-population/
yamit82 Said:
Where there is a will, there is a way, ja:http://youtu.be/nHMt7hXhRnA a much prefered method, no breakfast to cook, ja!!!!!!!!!!!!
1
yamit82 Said:
Wherre there is a will there is a way, ja: http://youtu.be/nHMt7hXhRnA
yamit82 Said:
I dont beleive the world of diplomacy is about resolve. Realistically I would be surprised, judging on history, if Israeli leadership believed in such things like loyalty, betrayal, etc. Israel itself betrayed the lebanese christian army. Betrayal is part of the landscape. Just yesterday was the bush sharon deal betrayal by the US. I think leaders base their moves on the strong possiblity of betrayal and hedge their bets. I think they bet on interests, personal agenda of other leaders, blaackmail, carrots, sticks, etc. I think they make realistic appraisals based on facts and not “friendship”, loyalty, etc. They may make incorrect assessments but I doubt they are foolish enough to take an american leaders words without a plan B. If someone you dont trust makes an offer that they may or may not dleiver you make sure that you get benefits before giving them anything. So far Israel got the leashing of hamas, the weakening of hezbullah, the weakening of Assad,…. what’s next who knows. I expect the GCC to keep up their assault on assad, hezbbullah and Iraq unless there is a paradigm shift such as the GCC accepting failure and seeking accommodation with iran.
Israel is best off if they continue to fight and kill each other, in fact the whole world will be better off. Hopefully neither will maintain power. Continued chaos and fighting in the lands of the enemies is the best. I do not wish any of them peace.
@ Laura:
Reality is finally sinking in.
America is reverting back to their old Isolationism.
Pat Buchanan and Rand Paul must feel vindicated.
For Israel Syria was a test…of American and Obama’s resolve.
@ honeybee:
The male attrition rate among viking males must have been so high that the ratio of women to men must have been like 5 to one in favor of women. That explains why women control Scandinavian men who almost never smile and have no sense of humor. 😉
honeybee Said:
they make more sense than kerry and co.
@ yamit82:
At least we now know what will happen if it ever comes to attacking Iran. Israel will have to act on its own. There will be no support for a strike on Iran from either side of the political aisle. So those of you who think that the GOP and conservatives are Israel’s friends, have had a rude awakening. That relationship has come to an end.
@ yamit82:
@ bernard ross:
Here are the two of you,or how you sound to me, my Darlins: http://youtu.be/_JmA2ClUvUY
yada yada yada
yamit82 Said:
I agree.
yamit82 Said:
Turn on Obama: http://youtu.be/twdp1v5dxYA
AIPAC Lies:
AIPAC admits it got little traction on Syria vote, but stands by push
Powerful pro-Israel lobby denies working at behest of US administration or Israel
Judging from BB’s and every Israeli in authority including Livni’s comments today, this was an Israeli initiative. Apparently Obama stabbed Israel in the proverbial back
Laura Said:
Thank-you,its a though job, but somebody has to do it.
http://youtu.be/85pSmcQoCDQ
bernard ross Said:
A similar deal with Gadaffi took seven years to dismantle only 40% of his stock.
Syria has 20-30 times more Chemical weapons and factories producing them than Gaddafi. How much will be hidden and how much transferred to Hezbollah?? It will also require large forces to guard and destroy the stock of weapons. Any volunteers for getting in the middle of their bloody civil war?
You realize that not only is this a BS agreement if it comes off but places Israel in an even more vulnerable position than before. Not good for our side.
@ yamit82:
Assad is an address! He wants to stay in power so he can ill afford to pick a fight with Israel. Iran and Hezbollah are preoccupied with keeping the Assad regime intact since they face a hard time without it. Insofar as the current turmoil in Syria is concerned – Israel does not have a dog in the fight and prefers that no side be a clear winner there.
You place a great deal of trust in Netanyahu. All I can reiterate is in a bad neighborhood, Israel has to keep its powder dry and be prepared to counter any emerging threat.
Doc: NSA shares Americans’ data with Israel
Secret document provided to the Guardian by Snowden indicates US government handed over to Israel intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens; also suggests Jewish state ‘third most aggressive intelligence service against US’ (YNET)
NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans’ data with Israel (Guardian)
• Secret deal places no legal limits on use of data by Israelis
• Only official US government communications protected
• Agency insists it complies with rules governing privacy
• Read the NSA and Israel’s ‘memorandum of understanding’
yamit82 Said:
Of course you are right and this is still a
yamit82 Said:
I thought it odd that it was being re published at this time. Especially with the apparently “very cooperative attitude” of Syria, Russia and Iran regarding dismantling Syria’s WMD. I smell a rat on their part and hope that Israel is not again exploited to be a sacrificial lamb of appeasement. We both know the record of various state depts and admins for anti semitism and lies.
Sunday, September 8, 2013
Peace Index: Jews 77.5%: Signing agreement would not end conflict
Complete Poll: Here
bernard ross Said:
The CIA report is rehashed old stuff and I have posted same information a few times in the past few years:
Israel and weapons of mass destruction
For example:
“Israel has signed but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC). In 1983 a report by the CIA stated that Israel, after “finding itself surrounded by frontline Arab states with budding CW capabilities, became increasingly conscious of its vulnerability to chemical attack… understook a program of chemical warfare preparations in both offensive and protective areas… In late 1982 a probable CW nerve agent production facility and a storage facility were identified at the Dimona Sensitive Storage Area in the Negev Desert. Other CW agent production is believe to exit within a well-developed Israeli chemical industry.”
There are also speculations that a chemical weapons program might be located at the Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR in Ness Ziona.
190 liters of dimethyl methylphosphonate, a CWC schedule 2 chemical used in the synthesis of sarin nerve gas, was discovered in the cargo of El Al Flight 1962 after it crashed in 1992 en route to Tel Aviv. Israel insisted the material was non-toxic, was to have been used to test filters that protect against chemical weapons, and that it had been clearly listed on the cargo manifest in accordance with international regulations. The shipment was from a U.S. chemical plant to the IIBR under a U.S. Department of Commerce license.
In 1993, the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment WMD proliferation assessment recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities. Former US deputy assistant secretary of defense responsible for chemical and biological defense, Bill Richardson, said in 1998 “I have no doubt that Israel has worked on both chemical and biological offensive things for a long time… There’s no doubt they’ve had stuff for years.”
Israel is not well prepared to defend against a chemical weapons attack, as could occur with the transfer of Syria’s chemical weapons to Hezbollah. However IDF CoS Benny Gantz has warned that an Israeli strike to prevent this could result in a “wider conflict”
Biological weapons
Israel is believed to have developed an offensive biological warfare capability. The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment records Israel as a country possessing a long-term, undeclared biological warfare program. Israel is not a signatory to the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC). It is assumed that the Israel Institute for Biological Research in Ness Ziona develops vaccines and antidotes for chemical and biological warfare. It has not been possible to conclude whether Israel currently maintains an offensive biological weapons program; it is speculated that Israel retains an active ability to produce and disseminate biological weapons
Israeli Nukes
It is believed that Israel had possessed an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War. Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range. Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes. Israel is believed to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center.
Delivery mechanisms include Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, with a range of 11,500 km, and which are believed to provide a second-strike option. Israel’s nuclear-capable ballistic missiles are believed to be buried so far underground that they would survive a nuclear attack. Additionally, Israel is believed to have an offshore nuclear second-strike capability, using submarine-launched nuclear-capable cruise missiles, which can be launched from the Israeli Navy’s Dolphin-class submarines. The Israeli Air Force has F-15I and F-16I Sufa fighter aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons at long distances using conformal fuel tanks and their Aerial refueling fleet of modified Boeing 707’s.
The Israeli government maintains a policy of deliberate ambiguity on whether it has nuclear weapons, saying only that it would “not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East.” Former International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei regarded Israel as a state possessing nuclear weapons. Much of what is known about Israel’s nuclear program comes from revelations in 1986 by Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at the Negev Nuclear Research Center who served an 18-year prison sentence as a result. Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but supports establishment of a Middle East Zone free of weapons of mass destruction
@ honeybee:
I love the comic relief you bring to this site.
Syrian oppositionist quietly aims for normalization with Israel
http://www.jpost.com/Syria-Crisis/Syrian-oppositionist-aims-for-normalization-with-Israel-325827
his conclusion:
Al qaeda, assad and or fragmentation is probably a better deal than “peace” with such BS plants with non existent followings living in london, as usual.
This reminds me of the pro western chalabi of iraq that the west trotted out, who we never hear from again. The Pro western democratic liberal element in these nations appears to be very minor or pure BS. Just a fig leaf. Such plants get trotted out to be carrot to subscribe to BS.
Syrian FM: “We’ll Even Sign the Int’l Ban on Chemical Weapons”
Amid a diplomatic flurry aimed at avoiding a military strike the Syrian FM says his country will join the Chemical Weapons Convention.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171787#.UjCRncaTjv5
Will this be a precedent? Will Iran and syria agree to dismantle if Israel does also. Will Obamas acceptance of syria’s offer allow him to demand Israel to give up WMD? Everyone sure is jumping on the bandwagon so far.
yamit82 Said:
Did you know Slim Pickens was a Rodeo Clown, use to watch him all the time,when I was a kid. All he needs nwo is a Obama mask!!!!
http://youtu.be/JlSQAZEp3PA
NormanF Said:
Not congruent with the facts. Assad has used Hezbollah to virtually take over Lebanon for Syria and as a military foil against Israel while at the same time building a large modern surface to surface missile deterrent against Israel. Add to that top of the line Russian SAM defense systems mostly nullify and at least limit the IDF freedom of options against Syria.
No Israeli strategist can ignore the potential Threat of some 150,000 missiles fired into Israel if we Attack Iran. That threat is real in place and probably will be used in the event of an Iranian attack by Israel or America. In the 2nd Lebanon war 4200 missiles were fired into Israel in a month now we would be facing 10,000 missiles fired into Israel per day, many with a range covering all of Israel certainly including Tel Aviv and Jerusalem not to mention Dimona.
The missile threats from Syria Hezbollah and Hamas potentially are a greater threat to Israel than 1 or 2 low yield nukes from Iran. Assad has demonstrated that he will under certain circumstances use his Chemical weapons if on balance he thinks it’s too his advantage and now that Obama has chickened out he might be more than not less likely to use them in the future.
Since Obama and (AMERICA)has proven to all and hopefully BB that they is unreliable and can’t be counted on and their word means nothing he will be forced by no choice to alter his options Re: Syria and Iran. That Russia is now about to supply S-300’s to Iran, if BB is going to attack it better be quick. First he has to neutralize the Syrian and Hezbollah threats.
Israel Backs Limited Strike Against Syria
“Israeli officials have consistently made the case that enforcing Mr. Obama’s narrow “red line” on Syria is essential to halting the nuclear ambitions of Israel’s archenemy, Iran. More quietly, Israelis have increasingly argued that the best outcome for Syria’s two-and-a-half-year-old civil war, at least for the moment, is no outcome.”
Wink on the way to a bomb
Op-ed: Washington’s indecisiveness on Syria tells Israel its assurances regarding Iranian threat cannot be counted on
Yaron London” ***** Is one of Israels most noted Leftist Journalists****
Russia to build second nuclear plant for Iran, deliver S-300
Assad has kept the peace with Israel. He will never be a lover of Zion but he is a known quantity. That’s not something that can be said of the Islamist fanatics on the other side. Israel has no interest in seeing Al Qaeda establish itself on Israel’s border. Israel has enough to deal with Hezbollah in Lebanon and jihadists in the Sinai and the last thing on earth Israel needs is even more instability in the Middle East.