T. Belman. This interview was mezmorizing. I couldn’t stop watching it. She makes the case that Israel must be democratic. I agree.
I believe that Israel is more than just democratic. It is the state of the Jews. It is more than just the law of return for Jews. I expressed my views in 2005, Particularism Before Universalism
Recently I wrote, Israel is a “Jewish and Democratic State”. What does it mean?
I forgot to mention that when I played in that Korean Church orchestra (when they passed around the wine and wafer, I always abstained as I had learned much to my embarrassment in another venue that being hungry and thirsty was not a good excuse. ) I amusingly thought of myself as a kind of shabbos Goy for Christians . Hey, as the saying goes, “When in Seoul…”
By the way, Joseon is also transliterated as Choseon so if they wanted to convert to Judaism, they could think of themselves as the Choseon people twice over, ya know? The Talmud is already really popular there. Food for thought.
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Though in all seriousness, despite their wishy-washy attitude towards modern Israel on account of Fakestinian propaganda, I learned more about my people’s history from their sermons than I had anywhere else before as most, nearly all in fact, of the public readings and sermons I listened to (through a translation device) – the equivalent of parshas? – were based on the Tanakh – most of which I had never been exposed to before – not the New Testament, interestingly enough.
And, while it wasn’t the source of my Zionism – the 2nd Intifada and Palestinian Media Watch took care of that – it certainly fueled it for 16 years, from 2004 to 2020, ended by Covid. And I am grateful for that. Plus it was fun.
Though I must confess that one of the principle reasons I wanted to learn Korean – and I’m still trying, though I’m rotten at learning languages – is that I wanted to understand the jokes the pastor would frequently pepper his sermons with, making the congregation roar with laughter, and which never got translated. 😀
Ketzel and Mr. Zorn. I agree with you both. there were many questions not asked that should have been asked.
I took the Zionist and Israeli right as her reference to the religious right. This would be her biggest problem and I would think her husband is not a religious Jew, although a patriotic one. As to her remarks about a gatekeeper for the Jews. I again agree with you. Shes working from the wrong end of the equation. I think at her core she believes the land is as much hers as it is the Jews, this is quite wrong headed. And the truth of the matter she probably believes she is living in an occupied land. Barry Weiss needs a second interview and prob the religious line of questioning. This will tell the story on her. Since she is a public figure, it will be interesting to follow her to see where her thinking leads.
@ketzel2 Yes, I was thinking that. She said she would be more comfortable in the U.S., herself, at one point.
@Tanna, of course non Jews can become friends of the Jewish people, but one requirement is that they not set themselves up as judges and gatekeepers, as this one does. I don’t want to run this into the ground, but things keep occurring to me, because the interview was so disturbing. For instance, she expresses concern that her son will be dehumanized by the Israeli right. But in fact, the 2 examples of violence are from her own people, the local Arabs. First, when she was a child, an Arab terrorist firebombed her family’s car, and then on Oct. 7, she and her son hid in a safe room from Arab terrorists. And yet she expresses concern that the Israeli right will harm her son. A true friend of the Jewish people would process these matters in a more honest way.
Also, she did experience discrimination as a child, living in an all-Jewish community. The other children expressed anti-Arab opinions, then said, but we don’t mean you, we mean the others. No doubt, this would affect anyone, and it’s reasonable for her to be concerned for her son. However, this doesn’t give her the right to project her childhood trauma onto the Israeli right. If her view of “democracy” means defanging Zionism, it is understandable from the point of view of human psychology and compassion. But that doesn’t mean Jews have to censor themselves to accommodate people who have been damaged by living in a false position. We have tried this with black people in America.
My own solution is to truly listen to people like this and understand them, but not abandon Zionism. If living with a Jewish majority is hurtful to her and her son, she may be more comfortable in another country.
All previous comments are helpful and there are multiple points one could key in on. Could this woman be a master manipulator, maybe…… but I would think not. The Bible (Tanach) is filled with goy(gentiles) who are not part of Israel but through marriage or deep and close association have a connection with Israel. We also have example’s of Gentiles who seemed to take on Israel’s God, alongside there on. The one that comes to mind is the man who took the soil from Israel back to his pagan temple and there are others. There are examples of Righteous gentiles in Elijahs day. Even Jethro, Moses father in law. These gentiles are in close association, but not full converts as we know today. With all due respect to the Sages and later Rabbi’s we have no textual support for conversion in the Tanach as we see it practiced today. This by all scholarly standards is a later construct. Therefore, even the sages recognized, a righteous goy(gentile) one associated, attached, committed to Israeli people, but not a member of the nation of Israel. The bible teaches that two shall marry and become one. In Lucys son Adam – Lucy and her Jewish husband are one
Assimilation is a big problem in the Jewish community and is destroying the Jews the world over. This is why God told Israel to remain separate and not enter into marriage with the nations. but, we are where we are.
As Lucy said, 3 million people are not going anywhere. Israel will not commit a genocide and the world will not let it. Could God come down and destroy 3 million or more overnight…. sure, but he does not seem to work that way. But, if like Lucy, one could change their perception of evil and distinguish between good and bad, then one comes to understand to look at a person based on their actions and not the color of their skin or the family they were born into. It comes from the heart….the mind…. the soul of an individual.
One of the greatest women in the Bible, married a Jew. After her husband died, she wanted another. Why? could she not find a Moabite man? Her love for the people, NOT her dead X-husband is what cause her to become the grandmother of King David and to one day be the grandmother of Moshiach. Maybe, just maybe….. Lucy is part of the messianic process as much as Ruth was?
Good comments. I stand corrected.
Before someone might accuse me of being racist, let me say that I am a big fan of Mosab Hasan Yousef who I believe deserves Israeli citizenship, as well as the American citizenship he now holds. He became a Christian after RENOUNCING Islam and then moved on to Yoga and what he calls “higher consciousness” in general.
He makes clear where he stands. Arabs like him who have no conflicting loyalties and spell out the political issues would not be a democraphic threat to Israel IMO.
She certainly has a dramatic, maybe manipulative, way of talking about herself, herself, and her son. But all this talk and stylized emotion avoids the real issue of Jewish survival. If a certain percent of the population of Israel becomes non Jewish they can outvote and replace Jews. There are already some Arab Knesset parties that have advanced legislation to theat end. They failed because they are outnumbered.
She doesn’t address that problem at the core of “democracy.” Her perspective for that issue is Arab rather than Jewish. How should democracy be defined? There are many ways.
I would also like to have known about her religious practices as a Muslim. Does she go to a mosque, read the Koran, teach it to her son? Does her husband keep the Jewish holidays and does she do that with him? They might be so secular that none of this matters, but it does for other people.
A lot of the interview sounds like she was fighting off tears. Typical manipulative tactic. I’m a woman, and we actually aren’t like that. When a woman is histrionic, it’s not authentic. I feel sorry for her husband.
She rants at the end about how her son is half Muslim half Jewish, and he’s a human being. Who ever said he wasn’t? This is a straw man. There is no one on the Israeli right who thinks her son isn’t a human being or doesn’t want him to have human rights. FFS! This chick is so toxic, I can’t believe you can even watch this without seeing it. Maybe because most people on this board are men, and you are used to being manipulated by this type of woman, and having lower standards for them.
This is EXACTLY WHY Israel signed all those disastrous agreements with genocidal enemies. Some people need to see what they want to see. The first step to solving any problem is seeing reality. This woman may or may not be sincere, but listen to her weasel words. Now we have all become too smart for the likes of Arafat, so they send someone more subtle who may even believe her bs.
Remember Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner? Over time, the Sidney Poitier archetype morphed into George Floyd.
Another thought about the revealing mistake she made at 33:00. There is a popular slur on social media that Zionists are not real Jews. We have no problem with Jews, only Zionists. This is a type of triangulation, a way for enemies to manipulate weak people who crave acceptance, into advocating for the enemy in order to join it.
Her statement at 33, that Jews have to be democratic or she will be the gatekeeper against Jews who aren’t, is an example of triangulation. Some Jews good, some Jews bad, and I will decide who is who.
Ignore this red flag at your peril.
@Tanna Yes, she gave me the impression of somebody who identifies passionately with and loves the Jewish people and Jewish state and wants to be included while keeping her identity rather than hoping to some day overtake Jews as an Arab* I found it very moving. She thoroughly and contemptuously debunked the apartheid canard and in expressing her emotions at being a victim as a child of a “Palestinian” terrorist attack, she detoxified the BBC accusation against Bibi that there were Israelis calling the Pals, “Amalek” (though they are you know. “… When you were weary and worn out, they met you on your journey and attacked all who were lagging behind…”
Deuteronomy 25:18. Describes the bastards to a tee. I think it’s stupid to focus on whether they were actual ancestors though I admit it’s a nice out for rabbis living under occupation wanting to keep the text while making it seem innocuous.)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2025&version=NIV
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*A personal aside: that’s kind of how I felt as a permanent member of an orchestra in a Korean Pentacostal Christian church. for 16 years minus a couple of short layoffs. I remember I once dropped my keys backstage and a Korean cellist picked them up and handed them back to me. I quipped that the Yin Yang Symbol, which for her was a national symbol (it’s on their flag) was for me a spiritual symbol (as a Jewish Buddhist (Jubu), and the star of David which for her was a spiritual symbol, was for me a national symbol (as a Jewish Zionist.) 😀 She said she wouldn’t mention it. There was kind of a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, it seemed. 😀
Everyone was always very welcoming of me and inclusive. Fortunately, their proselytizing efforts only concentrated on abandoned children around the city and the world. They called this, “the 4-14 window” recognizing rationally that adults are set in their ways, 99 percent of the time. Though I have to point out that providing social services and indoctrination to the poor is a time-tested technique which Communist front groups in the United States and later terrorist groups in the Middle East like Hamas practiced, as well.
But, while there was a persecuted Christian minority in Korea going back hundreds of years, when it was called Joseon, it really became popular during and after the Korean War, when American Christian missionaries came and helped the Korean people when nobody else seemed to care.
There’s a wonderful movie that touches on that. “Battlehymn” (1957).
“Battle Hymn is a 1957 American war film directed by Douglas Sirk and starring Rock Hudson as Lieutenant Colonel Dean E. Hess, a real-life United States Air Force fighter pilot (and a Protestant minister) in the Korean War who helped evacuate several hundred war orphans to safety. ” – Wikipedia
Somebody posted the whole movie on Vimeo. Free no commercials.
https://vimeo.com/521000284
Israel does that. See Israel21c and Very Good News from Israel Blogspot.
My opinion and thoughts changed about halfway through. It is interesting how Lucy speaks of herself as a Jewish citizen as if that takes first place over her being an Arab Muslim women. I intend to listen to this again, and would suggest others do also before dismissing. I kept thinking of a biblical person in Israels history to associate Lucy with. Rahab, Rachael, one of Jacobs other wife’s, maybe even the wife of Moshe? Very interesting hour. Lucy’s place and perspective, most defiantly iconoclastic…
Great hasbara abroad though.
Garbage ?
The left in Israel wants israel to be a state of all its citizens.They share her views
The right wants more as I have indicated in my articles..
Manipulative person. At 33:00 she says Israel has to be democratic because Jews can only be democratic because of their history, the Holocaust, etc. This is a non sequitur. Jews have to be a certain way because of something that happened. This is like the way the Democratic Party owns black people. During the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination hearing, Americans were shocked to learn of the subculture of black conservatives. Biden famously quipped, years later, if you have a problem deciding between me and Trump, you ain’t black. So this Arab woman with an agenda tells Jews they have to be democratic, and if they aren’t they are extremists and she will be the gatekeeper. No thanks. Watch out for people like this, they always turn.