How can his plan set out possibly work. He proposes annexing C and giving autonomy to Arabs in A and B and full citizenship to Arabs in C. He also wanted to build their economy in A and B and this I was also against. I supported that plan with certain changes. One of the changes was that I was against giving citizenship in the first instance. Now he is saying as part of the Plan that he would remove the security barrier. Thus there won’t be a border between them and us. How could this possibly work? Also he assumes they will govern well. But what happens if they don’t. How can we be immune to their poor environment or health policies. How can we stop them from moving into Israel and so on. I don’t like it. Ted Belman
A New Plan for Peace in Palestine
Dismantle the security barrier in the West Bank. Let most Palestinians who live there govern themselves.
By NAFTALI BENNETT, WSJ
May 20, 2014 6:38 p.m. ET
On May 14 U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry met with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in London to discuss the “unity government” that Mr. Abbas announced unexpectedly last month. Mr. Abbas’s decision to establish a national government in coalition with Hamas is the latest example in a long line of Palestinian intransigence.
Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israel’s destruction. The group has killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and missile attacks. That is the organization’s very mission: The Hamas charter calls for perpetual jihad against the Jewish State while forever rejecting peace negotiations or compromise. Israel will not negotiate with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas. [BUT ISRAEL IS NEGOTIATING WITH FATAH WHICH HAS THE SAME THING IN ITS CHARTER.]
So how should Israel respond to Mr. Abbas’s announced plan for such a government? I propose what I call the Stability Plan, which I will promote throughout Israel’s new Knesset legislative session.
Palestinians living in certain portions of the West Bank (known as Area A and Area B) should govern themselves. They should hold their own elections, run their own schools, issue their own building permits and manage their own health-care system. In short, they should run their own lives. Israel should not interfere in day-to-day governance.
To achieve this, Israel must allow Palestinians complete freedom of movement, which requires removing all roadblocks and checkpoints in the West Bank. In particular, Israel should dismantle the security barrier erected throughout the last decade to defend against Palestinian terror attacks during the Second Intifada.
Many Israelis credit the barrier with the dramatic increase in security over the past decade. Not a single Israeli was killed by terror in the West Bank in 2012, making it the first year without bloodshed since 1973. Yet this was not solely due to the barrier. The remarkable drop in terror happened thanks to high-quality intelligence coupled with Israel’s ability to conduct targeted military operations in the West Bank. The number of Israeli operations in the West Bank has dropped significantly because the military now only carries out pinpointed operations based on reliable intelligence.
Israel can now stay reasonably secure without the barrier. This will prove especially true if the Israeli government works with the international community to promote Palestinian economic development in Areas A and B. There’s no perfect solution to the conflict, and the wait for one has allowed the Palestinian economy to languish. The hope of independence and statehood has delayed crucial economic investments.
So, during the past few months, Israel’s Ministry of Economy, which I lead, has reviewed different options for helping the Palestinian economy grow. We have looked at the export and import systems, work permits, the climate for international investment and more.
One promising idea is to encourage multinational corporations to invest in Palestinian areas by offering economic incentives such as insurance guarantees and tax breaks. There are also ways to streamline the export process for Palestinian manufacturers so products can reach their destination quickly and in perfect condition. Israel has become known as the “Startup Nation,” but now it is time to build a “Startup Region.”
The other part of the Stability Plan deals with the remaining portion of the West Bank, known as Area C, where 400,000 Israelis and 70,000 Palestinians live. Under my plan, Israel would annex this territory, much as it exercised sovereignty over East Jerusalem in 1967 and the Golan Heights in 1981. The Palestinians who live in Area C would be offered full Israeli citizenship.
East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights still aren’t recognized by the international community as part of Israel. But it is impossible to imagine a state of Israel without the Western Wall. Israel could not withdraw from the Golan Heights while the Syrian civil war rages nearby. East Jerusalem and the Golan are Israeli territory, and the same should be true of Area C.
Annexing Area C would limit conflict by reducing the size of the territory in dispute, which would make it easier to one day reach a long-term peace agreement. Annexation would also allow Israel to secure vital interests: providing security for Jerusalem and the Gush Dan region along Israel’s central coast, protecting Israeli communities within Area C, and applying Israeli sovereignty over national heritage sites such as the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, the burial place of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
This arrangement might not be the utopian peace Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat imagined when they shook hands in the White House Rose Garden in 1993. But it offers Palestinians independent government and prosperity, while ensuring Israeli security and stability. That would improve lives and foster a much healthier coexistence, major progress for a region that has known conflict for decades.
dweller Said:
http://youtu.be/Y13cES7MMd8
@ honeybee:
Short answer: No.
P.S. Not all alliteration is intended thus. Sometimes, things just work out that way.
dweller Said:
Don’t you think your penchant for alliteration is getting “out of Hand”.
@ yamit82:
No, I don’t agree that home invasion constitutes a ‘peaceable’ practice of religion. So all the rest of your silly-assed screed is an irrelevant & off-point straw man
— with assorted red herrings tossed in for good measure, to throw the dogs off your demagogic dingbat scent.
Au contraire, it does NOT hold, whether either of us agrees or not.
We’ll see about that.
There is NOTHING pagan or idolatrous OR cultic about me.
What ‘we’ allow, eh?
I daresay there are more Jews who agree with ME than with you.
Even more Israeli Jews.
Even more Israeli Jews in Israel.
@ yamit82:
It’s not bullshit, and it’s not especially ‘christian’ OR ‘pagan.’
But it is a FACT, sitting right there in the scripture.
And music — particularly in its tendency to lull & seduce the consciousness — is always subject to nefarious usage. What’s more, given the state of popular culture, it’s an observation hard to refute.
How nice to know that you’ve read it.
I, on the other hand, HAVEN’T read “dweller’s playbook”
— because there isn’t one to read.
@ honeybee:
And you still haven’t answered the question.
Tough toenails, Twinkie. It is what it is.
@ honeybee:
If it were in fact ‘ponderous,’ I seriously doubt that you would take the time to read it.
A constant diet of that WOULD be ponderous.
@ yamit82:
That’s just it, dummy; don’t you get it? — there have NEVER been many. Christ SAID so himself (and more than once):
— “Wide is the gate, and broad the road, that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate, and narrow the road, that leads to life, and few there be that find it.” [Mt 7:13-14]
Got that? — and few there be that find it.
You wouldn’t recognize absolute proof if it bit you.
The bringing of universal peace doesn’t happen with a bolt of lightning; it takes time for implantation & germination. Christianity — flawed as it may be in practice — was the instrumentality by which the teachings of peace (yes, via the Jewish Messiah) were imported into a pagan world.
Nobody could have ‘invented’ The Christ (least of all, a gentile).All the early followers of The Christ were Jews; no way you can get around that ironclad fact.
And it was only when Hadrian placed Jerusalem off-limits to “all circumcised persons” that the homegrown product was effectively destroyed — thus leaving it to the gentiles to superimpose their pagan outrages over what HAD been a thoroughly Jewish product.
— It’s you who’ve been scammed.
Of course they justified their outrages in his name. Who else’s name would have such power? — the Marquis de Sade? You can’t be THAT dense; nobody is.
The specific ‘critics’ to which you allude were heartless, hypocritical dickheads. (Read the passage for yourself.)
— Of course, he was indignant. Nu?
The Temple money changers were part of the Sadducean structure directly responsive to & collaborative with the Roman occupation. The Sadducees of the era were effectively Roman toadies. There was nothing ‘innocent’ about them. In overturning the tables and taking a cat-of-9-tails to the Money changers, haNitzri was serving notice on Rome — and Rome knew it.
Wrong — as usual, in these matters.
He did not ‘promote’ eternal torment. But he understood something very fundamental about human nature and regret.
And what ‘case’ would that be? — I’m unaware of your YET having
stated a case. You refer to a “case,” but all I see in your post is a “tale told by an idiot, full of sound & fury
— signifying nothing.”
dweller Said:
More christian pagan Bullshit!!!
“The descendants of Cain were a civilized people, and pioneers in many trades, crafts and art forms. They were the first nomads, musicians, metalworkers and tool smiths. They seemed to follow in their father Cain’s footsteps, and became “restless wanderers on the earth”, seeking after worldly pursuits to appease their restlessness. Yes, they were the first musicians and craftsmen, but they were also apparently godless and so, what did their civilization gain them?
christian BS message…Without yeshu ..Blah Blah-ech!!!! That’s the message…. 🙂
I have read dweller’s playbook and it’s quite useless, stupid and insane.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
It’s to mystic and “new age” for me !!!!
@ honeybee:
What’s ‘fallacious’ about it?
“The first musicians were the children of Cain.”
That’s a message.
@ the phoenix:
Of course.
— You enjoy venting your spleen. And I’m handy.
@ the phoenix:
I see why you say you have little use for words.
— You are a prisoner of words, so you resent them (but that will never free you from their grip).
BTW:
I’m not New Age, not humanistic, not holier- than-thou. There are those here that ARE, but I’m not among them (on any of those counts).
And I answered it.
I’m less of a ‘weasel’ than you are, boychik; do you candidly believe I could not see you trying to set me up? — It would’ve been hard to miss.
Did nothing of the sort. I told you the unvarnished truth — forthrightly and promptly.
That’s because I had posted it and it was tied to other replies.
Read the post; you’ll see that it’s right where I said it would be, and you can also see that it incorporated a small series of responses (incl another one to you, as I recall).
Now you’re simply creating out of whole cloth — and strictly for the sake of your undisciplined spleen.
Obviously, then, you ‘knew’ WRONGLY, as there was indeed an answer.
That’s a left-handed way of acknowledging that it’s you who played the weasel here.
Only “MAY not be”? — hedging your bets these days?
yamit82 Said:
Ah, you are not safe from me.
http://youtu.be/36mCEZzzQ3o
honeybee Said:
I have a deep, wide MOAT filled with Half starved gators and man eating sharks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0tCphFMr8
yamit82 Said:
I have parapets on my Castle.
the phoenix Said:
It was chicken breast fillet. Tx came in starved, been spraying bugs, Grouchy as all get out [ a Texas phase for your vocabulary] . Ate like starved man and then turned sweet. Breaded chicken fillets and mash taters [ potatoes] good stuff.
I love dweller thats why I call him sweetie, honey for you and a stinger for dweller. He writes the most ponderous prose, I want say noun, verb please and in that order, please.
honeybee Said:
Yes hb,
This guy with his obnoxious holier than thou, mystic, new age , humanistic bullshitistic. Etc..
Yeah!
I pretty much had at till HERE! with his nonesense
On two separate posts I have (respectfully) asked him point blank
“What did your service consist of”
In a typical weasel fashion, he evaded the question,
Then he claimed that he DID post it but was tied up with other posts and Jupiter did not quite align with mars and whatever other bullshit this guy is believing in.
I KNEW that there would be no answer , so obviously I am not surprised.
I have only fed him enough rope…
PERSONALLY?
I happen to believe that yamit’s post where he provided dweller’s ‘job description’ , may not be too far off target.
😉
PS: … So the chicken was not burnt (mazal Tov!)
But, did it taste good?
🙂
dweller Said:
Say What? This is a fallacious paragraph, no a message !!!!!
@ the phoenix:
Is that your message?
dweller Said:
So you agree that polytheist cannibals can invade your home and in the exercise of their freedom of religion cut you into little pieces and eat you? Then say very devout prayers to their gods: papa god sonny-boy god and Casper the friendly ghost god.
Absurd? Violent? abridgement of your rights? Invasion of your castle? sure, but rights are those that a majority agrees to and in ones home or castle the owners determine the rules laws and rights of those who dwell in that castle as well as to those who visit uninvited.
My country is my home and castle and we say what rights and freedoms we afford to ourselves and others. If one is an observant Jew and follows Jewish Halacha; all christians and believers in yeshu as a god or not, are considered pagan idolators and have no place in our Jewish home and that holds whether you agree or not. You have no say in the matter nor will you ever. The whole world is yours to practice your pagan idolatrous beliefs and cult practices but not here in MY house, my Castle, my country. Here your freedom of choice is limited to what we allow and no more.
@ dweller:
Dweller, you DO understand why I am saying that you are full of shit, don’t you?
🙂
@ yamit82:
I thank you most sincerely for the vote of confidence, but only Christ gets to make that call.
Actually it’s VERY Jewish.
There’s nothing ‘nefarious’ about my wishes for Israel, and there’s no “us” in your reference to “us Jews.”
Yes, I do agree.
No, I may be YOUR enemy, but I am certainly NOT the enemy of Israel or the Jewish People — though, no doubt, you wish I were (it would make it so much easier to write me off).
Indeed, yes. Choice to decide where to send your kids to school; choice to decide how many guns to own; choice to join a union, or not; etc — yes.
Choice to put out a hit contract on one’s own (or anybody else’s) innocent flesh-& blood before s/he has seen the light of day — no.
Some choices are legitimate; others not.
Free & peaceable practice of religion is legitimate. Denial of that choice isn’t.
@ honeybee:
Obviously the excerpt from the end of my comment [post #1, this pg] that you blockquoted to introduce your OWN comment [post #2, same page].
@ yamit82:
Good reply A+.
dweller Said:
Specious argument as I already offered the real reasons for the general Israel disfavor of Wagner which had nothing to do with his music. That I and some others consider it bad music is opinion, that Wagner the political being held political views that were later adopted by the Nazis and became a symbol for Nazi Germany and Hitler is the reason, not his antisemitism or the merits of his work. His political views and their later influence on the Nazis and Hitler is well documented and not opinion.
Yours is opinion with no basis of understanding nor of the facts of the matter. Matter of fact you are as close to a Nazi sympathizer as I have seen on this blog. After all Hitler believed he was only carrying out the will of yeshu and his later followers.
Your sophistry don’t cut it nor your lack of common sense and revisionist understanding of history.
dweller Said:
So then how many real good christians were there? Bet you couldn’t count them of the fingers of 1 hand if that.
Since the real Jewish messiah is to bring universal peace and the Knowledge of the one true G-d in the world it’s absolute proof your BS messiah wasn’t. A fictional character that only gentiles accepted, Jews knew better and saw right through the scam.
Matter of fact most of those whom you claim not to be real christians were in fact following his teachings to the letter:
yeshu said, “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34)
“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27.
The burning of Jews and other unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of yeshu: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)
yeshu looked at his critics “with anger” (Mark 3:5), and attacked innocent merchants with a whip (John 2:15).
The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. “The Son of man [yeshu himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42)
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)
I rest my case!!!!
dweller Said:
Spoken like a true christian with a theological agenda and vested interest. It ain’t Jewish though. It isn’t even normal to expect it of us, unless ….you have insidious and a nefarious agenda against us Jews in Israel.
Then you must agree, that to be consistent communists and Muslims have the same rights in America to practice their beliefs even when they conflict with the tenets of American democracy. Peaceably of course!!! 🙂
You for us are the same as Muslims promoting shariah and communists, the overthrow of the capitalist system. Peaceably!!!!! 😛
You are our enemy no less even more than the vilest Arab Terrorist. You are living proof that support of pro choice philosophy is correct.
dweller Said:
Forgive me !!!! but what was you message ???
@ yamit82:
‘Obfuscation’ of what?
I smear nobody and no thing.
The smearer is Ovadia Shoher
— and I call him out for it, and his fellow travelers as well.
This is itself the VILEST of smears.
What I support is the free exercise and peaceable practice of ALL religions in the Holy Land, irrespective of their purported histories.
@ yamit82:
He loved dogs too. You detest dogs? Stupid.
He also loved movies
— and not just the Leni Riefenstahl variety; Hollywood pictures were a passion of his. (He was nutty for Garbo flix.)
So, you detest films too?
Where does this imbecility end?
@ honeybee:
As usual, you shoot the messenger because you feel threatened by the message.
dweller Said:
you don’t like music, you have no soul.
@ yamit82:
You say what you NEED to believe. But you offer nothing by way of substance to justify it, just your usual vile bellowings.
Had they in fact been ‘GOOD’ Christians, they could not have murdered the very flesh & blood kin of their purported Master. Their behavior proves MY point — not yours:
— They chose what they knew to be the very BEST thing in their world (Jesus)to ‘justify’ their own bestiality.
Why retract? — my statement was eminently correct. It’s perfectly clear that they did NOT understand the scripture (nor want to). But not because they were common persons. Wickedness does not limit itself to one class or sector of society.
What I display is rationality & common sense — a couple things that seem
to elude you.
You haven’t answered the question: Do you despise dogs — since we know that Hitler loved them? Yes or No?
This is an opinion. Nothing more.
Those (including MFA) who try to single out Wagner this way overlook the simple fact that music (especially in its capacity to lull & seduce the consciousness) generally has a questionable value — for reasons that are only ACCENTUATED (not substantively altered) with the advent of Wagner.
The first musicians were the children of Cain. . . .