Thirteen years after US President George W. Bush declared war on terrorism, the Middle East is no closer to victory. Instead, terrorism appears to have morphed into an even more dangerous beast in the form of the Islamic State (IS). Westerners, as expressed through the media, seem to be under the same impression as they were after Sept. 11, 2001 — namely, that the Sunni jihadist movement is linked to the Wahhabi brand of Islam emanating from Saudi Arabia. This has prompted renewed debate among Saudis about this supposed Wahhabist-jihadist connection.
After bombings in Riyadh by al-Qaeda in 2003, the relationship between terrorism and religious extremism was widely discussed in the kingdom, with the government establishing the King Abdulaziz Center for National Dialogue that same year. During the dialogue’s second meeting, Extremism and Moderation … A Comprehensive Methodological Vision, it was agreed that religious programs in Saudi Arabia were the primary force behind the spread of extremism in society. As a result of the dialogue, school curricula, the religious curriculum in particular, were modified by the Ministry of Education. Doubts remained, however, that religious education had been sufficiently modified given that radical Islamists were believed to dominate the education sector in the kingdom.
Saudi Arabia is today taking seriously the allegations in the international media that it is the ideological root of the current jihadist groups. Some have sought to defend the country’s religious vision by trying to disassociate Sunni jihadist groups from their brand of Islam, instead castigating other groups, such as the Kharijites — an Islamic sect separate from Sunnis and Shiites that emerged from the first Islamic civil war in the seventh century between Ali Ibn Ali Talib and Muawiya Ibn Abi Sufyan following the killing of the third caliph, Uthman Ibn Affan.
Nawaf Obaid and Saud al-Sarhan presented this view in a Sept. 8 article in The New York Times. They argued that IS’ discourse is different from that of Salafism and Wahhabism. They contended that IS ideologues are Kharijites who believe that those different from them are infidels and can therefore rightfully be killed, including en masse.
The main problem in suggesting an IS link to Kharijites is that the group has been distributing Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab’s books across the territory under its control in Iraq and Syria, suggesting that the group is explicitly declaring its affiliation with Wahhabism. Another issue is that the religious basis of Sunni jihadist movements is completely different from Kharijism, which eventually developed different schools of jurisprudence. One of the most prominent schools is Ibadism, the official confession in Oman, which is not linked to IS in any way.
In debates about terrorism and extremism in Saudi Arabia, extremism is repeatedly attributed to the era of Juhayman Ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaybi, who in 1979 led extremists to take over the Grand Mosque in Mecca. The government at the time met the radicals’ demands and allowed them to implement their brand of conservatism through the media, education and other forms of public life. This era in Saudi history is called the Awakening, and Wahhabism at the time was not described as a source of extremism. Today, however, because of IS, there are discussions on the connection between Sunni jihadist extremism and Wahhabism inside and outside Saudi Arabia. This might eventually change the way Saudis see themselves.
These discussions have always stirred political and religious sensitivities, as the kingdom has openly declared that it adopted the movement of Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab. This is reflected in the religious activities funded by Saudi Arabia around the world and in the discourse of most of its religious scholars. The political sensitivities arise given that the first signs of the Saudi state emerged when Abd al-Wahhab joined forces with Imam Muhammad Bin Saud in the 18th century. This alliance holds symbolic importance to the religious and political union in Saudi history, as legitimacy was accorded by the religious movement to establish the modern-day state of Saudi Arabia.
The kingdom’s participation in the first airstrikes against IS in Syria on Sept. 23 demonstrates its seriousness in combating the radicals. This followed a recent shift in Saudi policy to focus on the threat posed by Sunni jihadist groups. King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz expressed disappointment toward the international community on Aug. 1 for not showing enthusiasm for the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Centre (UNCCT), begun in 2011 with Saudi backing. He also donated $100 million to the center, while the grand mufti, Abdul Aziz Al al-Sheikh, proclaimed IS the No. 1 threat to Islam.
Some see the kingdom’s efforts to fight terrorism simply as a way to deflect criticism from Western governments. On Aug. 28 in the Washington Post, David Ignatius wrote that Saudi support for the UNCCT and the identification of IS as the main enemy of Islam were done to avoid criticism being leveled against Saudi Arabia for backing Sunni extremism. This view, however, ignores that terrorism poses a direct threat to Saudi Arabia.
Despite attempts by some prominent Saudis to do so, it is difficult to link IS to Kharijites and separate the group from Wahhabism, as the group has explicitly adopted the ideas of Abd al-Wahab and is spreading and imposing them on the regions it controls. The current challenge is to prove that the ideas of Wahhabism are the primary reason for the creation and mobilization of jihadist organizations and is not a distraction from the political collapse of the region as the facilitator of the growth in extremism.
@ honeybee:
Entendimiento
My father was a genius. He taught him self everything.
Bought me a train set for my birthday built a big table in the basement to set them up and wound up playing with the trains himself as I got bored with them pretty quick.
Then my school tested me for musical talent and told my parents I should begin piano lessons so they bought me a piano and before I finished john Thomson 2nd grade dad had begun to teach himself to play piano and while I quit he continued for the rest of his life he wasn’t bad either never took a lesson. After my mother died he went out and bought himself a set of drums and kept the neighbors up all night.
No message here just idle banter.
yamit82 Said:
Nothing, I am my worst critic.
@ honeybee:
Which are you generally most pleased with after your finished?
@ honeybee:
Give him a shot of whiskey or kick him in the ass.
yamit82 Said:
I also like the smell of Gardenias, they grow wild too.
Loki II is acting up.
@ yamit82:
Haven’t read phoenix’s post and I now shall ignore it. Writing is like painting, sometimes it is as if some thing takes over my brush and painting paints it’s self. Other times it is a struggle from beginning to end.
@ honeybee:
Thanks I have my moments, even surprise myself sometimes. I guess I need the right inspiration.
Pls ignore the post Phoenix addressed to me. I understand how he feels but it will pass.
yamit82 Said:
Dear heart , your ability to express your ideas to others in a literate manner is also an art form.
It’s so enlightening to read Mr. Ross’ and Yamit’s discussion. It’s these type of discussions that places this blog in a class of its own. I learn so much here. Thanks, you guys.
@ yamit82:
I would not be surprised if abbas does not want gaza but wants the massive money about to come in, and to be rid of hamas. the existence of hamas allows him not to hold elections just as the existence of hamas allows Israel to stall negotiations. Now here is a real kicker: what if BB and Abbas agree and cooperate but abbas cannot do it because the pals would not support it. the status quo with cosmetics may also be what abbas wants.
I am expecting that part of area C near Jericho to be built to consolidate the pals near population centers.
@ yamit82:
No, I think you gloss over too many things as “coincidences” including the regular referral from BB and liberman wrt the gulf arabs, the fact that assembled jihadis had no interest in attacking Israel, the 9 mos peace talk schedule coinciding with the Iran negotiations, etc. I can’t imagine that abbas expected the talks to go anywhere in which case he could not have taken less than a prisoner release, ….they were asked to enter the negotiations as a show without expecting anything to happen…as a stall to allow the run up to an attack on Iran. Isnt it a convenient coincident that all the blowback proxies of Iran who would attack Israel have now been weakened and in every case the gulf monarchies are connected including Egypts cooperation? You said once that in politics there are no coincidences but you appear to accept many in this case. and why, after all, it’s not as if Israel has made all its moves with transparency, so why wouldn’t you expect behind the scenes situations especially when they involve the arab monarchies. You should consider that it may be more than coincidence. Most of Israels dealing with the monarchies has been behind the scenes to avoid the arab street knowing.
honeybee Said:
I am also a grown up and an asthectic. Don’t have an artistic bone in my body but I appreciate beauty and creativity in any form and the innate artistic talents in others even those whose work I don’t connect with.
yamit82 Said:
I choose it because it had the lyrics inscribed. Thought you would survive the religious mention cause you’re a Zev.
Like you’re version better.
@ honeybee:
Beautiful song except for the religious part but this I love
version I like best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgWhp2U8gIY
yamit82 Said:
A esta cancion, balieremos de campos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YlZfPQ5gs
@ honeybee:
Tu casa o la mía?
honeybee Said:
honeybee Said:
Wild flowers?
Yes, that fits.
Bueno yo apruebo su elección para lo que vale.
yamit82 Said:
Todas las floras naturales de los silvestres y los campos.
yamit82 Said:
Mostrarme
honeybee Said:
Su flor favorita?
@ honeybee:
No problem I’ll give you all the ROWDY you can handle maybe even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lo entiendes?
yamit82 Said:
Then where will I be rowdy ????????
yamit82 Said:
Where ever one goes, there one is.
yamit82 Said:
No no, amorocito mio, La lindosas de las flores es mi religion.
@ bernard ross:
@ honeybee:
BB opted for prisoner release due to demands by Obama to go to negotiations. The other alternative was settlement freeze and building in Jerusalem. If BB had announced a settlement freeze after having instilled by edict a full court settlement freeze he would have prematurely created a coalition crisis with both Bennett and the backbenchers in the Likud. He opted for the alternative he assessed would keep his coalition intact and took the heat over the prisoners. He has let so many terrorists out of prison what’s another hundred or so? In the end he released prisoners and quietly instilled a settlement freeze anyway. so he caved on all points of contention.
^months later everybody has forgotten the release off terrorists and the building freeze was quietly executed and all of the right Bennett and the Likud backbenchers remained silent. Nobody wants to give up their seats in the knesset or ministerial posts and there are a lot of those. It’s one of Israel’s way of implementing a form of Spoils System. A third of more of member of Knesset are either ministers or deputy ministers. Nobody just quits those jobs in Israel not over stupid principles. Just not done!!
honeybee Said:
Short ans. No….!!!!!
@ honeybee:
Es Texas una religión con ustedes mi amor??
yamit82 Said:
Claro que si, Perry is male, a cowboy, a Zoomie and above a TEXAN !!!!!!!!!!!!
@ yamit82:
yamit82 Said:
You are talking political strength rather than military strength. Hamas and fatah are maintained by power not elections. the fact that Israel sustains abbas and he knows it, only strengthens my argument that they make deals but cannot afford to divulge those deals. also do not confuse what is going on factually with what you think should go on. Hamas has definitely been brought down enormously and a major contributor towards that is egypt, the saudi proxy. It would be almost impossible for hamas to sustain a blowback attack on Israel in the event of an attack by anyone on Iran. as for hexubllah, again, remember before arab spring. they have jihadis fighting them in Lebanon, they are spread out in syria, even nusra dislocated them next to shabaa…it is relative, they are in a weaker position to harm Israel now than before. Do I have to even mention assad and that he is weaker? Who did all this, not israel but the gulf monarchies. If this was done in cooperation then it would also mean that Israel would now be more assured of their seriousness to cooperate. I am not discussing what is best or what should be but rather presenting explanations for occurring events that line up with what BB and liberman have already stated, but I stated it before them. the best explanation for many of the actions BB took that made no sense is the understanding I have alluded to for a couple of years now. I have no doubt that Israel is stronger now with Irans proxies weaker than before the arab spring.
yamit82 Said:
it is not what you or I see that we are discussing but rather what BB sees, does and DID. What is BB giving away that has not been already given? BB may think he can get more from this situation than the majority of Israelis want: remember most Israels dont appear to even want C. Israel already gained: Hamas was leashed twice now with GCC involvement at POD and PE. remember the strange brokered qatar cease fire? I believe that Israel targeted Iranian links to gaza and hamas in cooperation with the GCC at the time. If Israel was ever serious about attacking Iran it would be a major gain to have the GCC jihadis weaken the proxies first and also be activated again at the time of any attack….the weakening was done, without a doubt Israel is in a better military position vs Iran and her proxies and all done by the GCC. this is not a love relationship but a congruence of interests whereby cooperation may yield better results, at least in BB’s eyes. I would not be surprised if Abbas can give more under the table than he ever could in any deal. Perhaps all the screaching, accusing moaning etc is just appearance for the street.
@ bernard ross:
Israel did not need GCC to weaken Hamas and Hezbollah by all accounts are stronger than ever. Hamas will still beat Fatah in any fair election and Abbas know it that’s why he keeps delaying elections. The Palis street is still with Hamas. They control Hebron and Jenin for sure. Almost pulled off a coup IDF Israel hadn’t nipped it in the bud. Fatah will never return to Gaza either.
Abbas won’t last an hour without the IDF abd Shabak securing his sorry ass and he knows that as well. It’s Israel who is the major Paymaster of the PA not the GCC. Their whole economy is intertined with ours including currency…. Since they are Israels 3rd largest trading partner mostly for low teck products and services we hold all the cards for what every direction we wish to pursue.
I still see nothing Israel gains unless it’s tied to Iran and since they have as big or bigger interst in bringing down a Nuke armed Iran we needn’t give anything away not in out vital interests.
Obama is the problem and BB does not seem to be the one who will buck him. BB may be the only one who won’t.
yamit82 Said:
I read recently, i forgot where, an english report, that the Israeli gas would be too expensive to competitively export and would be better used at home. have you heard of that narrative?
honeybee Said:
Naw he just loves our felafel and Israeli Bikini clad women at our beaches. Falafel and Jewish broads what a toxic combo.
@ yamit82:
So this is why Gov. Perry is in love with yawl!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
no far sightedness, it already passed, it was a short term deal and the pressure on abbas was not from BB but from the GCC, the US and the EU; and under the table appears to be the main MO as over the table gives no explanation. It was for israel to pay the price in return for the delivery of a weakened hamas, hezbullah and Assad…the weakening of irans proxies by the GCC. why else would abbas enter such a ridiculous deal with nothing for him…it was done for the GCC who is their main backer. such a deal best explains the behaviors of the parties involved (I include Turkey and the Kurds who were also organized into a deal by Obama and the west.) The GCC arranged POD cease fire, weakening and leashing of hamas,hexbullah, assad, and its proxy egypt.
yamit82 Said:
this is a possible scenario if BB believed he had a real deal on the Iran AND regional equation. If the GCC delivered their end, and it appears that they did, then BB may have acceded to aid abbas in gaza. It would also explain Israels caution along the way, making the US and GCC perform their part first. So far them taking over borders in gaza is no more than the original deal before hamas took over, so BB gave away nothing more. It is even better for abbas to not ride into gaza on Israels coattails but to see hamas hand itself over, fail and accede to a unity gov. As for a west bank deal, it is possible that this could even evolve with an appearance of diplomatic conflict through pre-orchestrated moves which could allow both sides to make “concessions” without having actually made concessions. EG if the pals get an unrecognized state it could only practically be in a &B if Israel does not agree. such a scenario could lead to the separation of C from a&B and a referendum on C only(although I doubt it happening)
If there is a new paradigm, it could only be accomplished under the table and unfold as if there was a conflict or argument going on. this would also allow a pal gov to “lose” territory, avoid massive immigration, not agree to Israel remaining in jordan valley, etc. I have come to the conclusion that there can be no peace deal over the table from the pal point of view. everything would have to be done incognito. In fact, perhaps BB’s is bursting at the seams to tell all but cant. I may be wrong but so far it unfolds as I expected.
yamit82 Said:
Can I bring Texas and Mexican roughnecks with me?????????????? Girls gotta have some fun !!!!!!!!!!!!! Sugar.
@ yamit82:
Forgot to mention that the process Israel is developing with Vinogar is also gold because we will have the patents and when sold will bring in billions. That’s one of the reasons they are going slow to make sure the thing works. They will need massive investment to make this project work in the beginning and must show proof of concept to attract the big bucks.
@ honeybee:
That could only be a plausible explanation if BB wanted to unite Gaza with the West Bank and bring down Hamas. The gain to Abbas was but momentary and Hamas is still more popular among the Palis. Hamas to date is credited with all gains made against Israel showing that violence pays and Abbas gang of thieves hav brought nothing to crow about.. Hamas will still If I read BB come out of this with significant gains and Abbas bubkis.
You credit too much BB being far sighted and playing intrigues under the table. He ain’t made for that game because he has no support at home once the people realize what he is giving away…
I say it’s all BB-Spin to cover his failures and ass. Nothing there move on.
bernard ross Said:
True but what Israel is working on now is a pilot project using a new method of extraction that will lower the cost of Fraking considerably and using self contained energy sources.
Israel figures we can produce for under $40 bbl at the well head. since we are close to both the Med and the red sea exporting costs are a lot cheaper as well Red sea for Asia and Africa and the Med to Europe. Win Win % years away from an official Go I believe. But with a glut on the market the prices will surely drop as demand drops combined with excess new sources of oil….The Saudis could decide to dump oil and drive fraking out of contention if they are prepared to bite the bullet for a few years.
Shale deposits do not include many billions known to be under the Gas fields not yet explored.
Israel oil shale potential@ honeybee:
Sorry darlin what you got is pocket change compared to what we got and some of it is right under my house!!!!
Looks like if you want to remain Queen of the mountain you are going to have to move here with me.
http://world.time.com/2013/04/30/can-israel-become-as-oil-rich-as-saudi-arabia/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0c19r8FWQ
@ honeybee:
yes,, a good article…. this scenario has been talked about for a few years as the main vehicle to lift the US economy. Also talked about was the licensing of LNG export facilities to go online originally projected for 2015 in time for a revived economy in 2016. if this is still on track I would expect the gas prices to rise locally when it is exported. I would prefer to see the export limited and the energy boom used to fuel the US economy and get industries rebuilt in the US. I expect that China will be changing into a consumer driven economy as their prices rise. I understand that almost all previous economic booms in the US were tied to cheap energy.
bernard ross Said:
True dat !!!!!!!!!!! Yankee Boy
yamit82 Said:
I agree, and agree that they are the main target of Iran. this is the motive for understandings as I beleive that the GCC and west were hoping for Israel to have done wht Obama backed away from. Possibly Israel did aid them in small ways and perhaps they are even clearing a path for Israel to attack Iran by also reducing blowback to israel from Irans proxies of hexbullah, assad and hamas…all of which have been weakened and stretched thin by arab spring. However, if this scenario is true then the understandings are based on Israels contribution to their self interest and without an Israeli contribution the pendulum can reverse.
I have always believed that BB’s prisoner release was given in order to give abbas a victory to wave when the inevitable failure of the talks arrived; a failure that I believe they both knew in advance. the GCC needed to have the pal israel issue quiet while they recruited jihadis against irans proxies as opposed to against Israel. Everyone knew that abbas could not enter such talks that would definitely end in nothing without something to wave about at the end, or he would be dead. Abbas is still waving things about. Israel got a leashed hamas, a weakened hezbullah and a weakened assad. I beleive that the current situation relates to the same goals. a deal may already have been made or the pawns are being arranged on the board to facilitate Iran making a deal. If a deal is not yet made or unable to be made I see the next phase to be the internal destabilization of Iran from its ethnic minorities in addition to its current troubles.
You can see that I have not bought the current narrative of the war against IS. It makes no sense in real geopolitical terms, only in the minds of the masses. Meanwhile all the actors are present in the area now, whatever the narrative is, and all the leverage of the west and GCC against Iran and russia have evolved from the actions and gains of IS.
@ bernard ross:
@ yamit82:
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2012/05/23/eagle-ford-shale-economic-data-show-the-potential-of-u-s-shale-plays/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Unconventional+Energy_|_Exact&gclid=CKH20-bli8ECFcFTKwodN0wAMg&gclsrc=ds
DON’T MESS WITH TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
and i think the us dollars being dumped by russia and china. I beleive in the adage that if you owe the bank 100 dollars you should worry and if you owe the bank a million dollars they should worry. china has built cities that are empty but if their bubble bursts they will have housing regardless of the current price affixed.
yamit82 Said:
I believe they know this and that is the reason for their primarily financial ties to the west, the princes know how to live in the west, they are attempting to make it more islamic for when they arrive. yamit82 Said:
I agree that no one would complain except I think the other western interests prefer their own control first …. they are all currently flying around above iraq and syria pretending to be doing things in their peanut shell game.
bernard ross Said:
Be still my heart!!!!!!!!!!!
bernard ross Said:
I choose domestic American political considerations. The banksters need continuous conflict otherwise they face a very close haircut maybe even beheading. How much longer can they artificially maintain pumping such vast amts of digital dollars into the economy and the markets?????
btw i suspect that the fed has been buying stocks to keep the market rally going. The real economic indicators and world crisis should have created several major corrections in the last two years. They drove gold and silver down and bought heavily on the sell-off. It’s manipulated and only central banks with the power to print currencies have that power.
The current Saudi Rulers come from the Sunni Bedouin Tribes who stole the oil rich lands from Shia Bedouin Tribes who still occupy those same lands. The fear of the Saudi rulers is an insurrection designed,led and supported by Iran. Once they get Nukes those Lands will be the Iranian’s first target of conquest using Local tribes to effect the conquest.
Threatened from withoutand from within they will fall eventually. The only question is who gets to them first. They know the jig is up and the nooses are tightening around their collective necks.
Israel should conquer them and sell their oil near cost. Who would complain, besides Obama?
the main terror threat to saudi is the iran funded destabilization of the saudi peninsula nations.
the interesting question is how does this event tie win with a future syria and iraq. I believe that the sunni GCC will have more influence in syria and iraq through their proxies.
the west, the US, EU and the sunni GCC have found a legal way to freely operate over any part of syria and iraq.
what will happen to the ground taken by IS,to whose control will it go?
Is IS being destroyed or being given its limits of operation?
One must be suspicious of an operation whereby all the sunnis who backed the sunni jhadis “appear to be a part of” an operation against the sunni jihadis who have accomplished their original plans of controlling sunni areas from Iraq to turkey. Only by seeing the exact results when the smoke clears can we see what is really going on here. Let us remember how the MSM controlled the facts in this region before at the “Jenin masssacre” and the gaza ops. It is difficult to believe that the beheadings of 2 reporters are the cause of this massive coalition whose real “bombing results” are not yet released.
oil prices to rise?