Dr. Jonathan Turley
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Menu There is no diplomatic solutionIsrael should declare three nos;
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
@Reader
As with the appointment of Ben Gvir and Smotrich, they can make what public displays they like, they will not break the Accords because they need the Accords to survive. This is why they came to Israel, who was always open to peace with the Arabs, even to the point of making offers which left Israel at the tender mercies of the Arab terrorists masquerading as peace partners. Unlike Oslo where Israel gave up so much to gain only broken bodies, bombed buses and blood soaked betrayals, Israel gave up nothing to the Arabs to receive the Accords, just as they will give up nothing to the Arabs to declare sovereignty.
FYI, Trump pulled his support for sovereignty well before the Accords, and in the months that followed, Bibi threatened to unilaterally execute the Trump offer of sovereignty – it was an election year and Trump could not have challenged him from doing so. Bibi did offer to table the Accords in exchange for at least 4 peace deals, which were promptly offered up. The Accords are an important aspect of Israel’s Iran policy, but I would suggest that they are even more vital to the Sunni’s.
As Bibi related in an interview a few weeks ago, he has every intention of fighting to get the US to once again recognize Israel’s right to extend sovereignty, but in the meantime, he should first recognize this right himself, exercise this right and provide the US with a good reason to support Israel for doing so – it is vital that Israel create facts on the ground which will counter any further designs of filling Yesha with Arabs, and that means filling it with Jews first, and the extension of sovereignty is a necessary first step.
@Reader
https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/08/13/behind-the-scenes-how-the-abraham-accords-came-into-being/
@Sebastien Zorn
You believe or you know?
Even if they were only “tabled”, as soon as Israel makes any move toward applying any changes in Judea and Samaria our dear Abraham Accords “partners” (and the US and the UN) will start screaming that this breaks the accords.
They were signed to keep Israel’s hands tied while the Arab terror continues unabated.
@Edgar G.
Israel a sovereign country?
Don’t make me laugh (or cry).
Israel is a vassal of the US, and the US thinks it can do as it pleases with Israel – sometimes it’s a pat on the head, sometimes it’s a slap in the face.
The Abraham Accords are nothing more than a public disclosure of the coordination and common interests of the parties involved. As we move towards more and more members, we should see the Accords as the fulfillment of Bibi’s long term policy goals of Peace thru Strength, even as he opposed the anti-Israel policies of the US, which were also anti-Sunni. Recall that Bibi lobbied congress on behalf of Egypt after the Morsi govt fell (~2013?). He did so because stabilizing Egypt under an anti-Brotherhood govt was in Israel’s interests, but it was also in the interests of Egypt, the other Sunni states, and more specifically, Saudi Arabia – whose role in securing the Accords should not be downplayed or ignored. Now the Accords are important for Israel and the Sunni’s but it is only important if the Accords can survive the rational fulfillment of the interests of the parties involved. Israel should not forgo her own interests in pursuing the Accords, just as she should not place herself in a state of paralysis so that they continue. There are many benefits to the Accords which the various members gain from their membership, from military to trade to travel, but it should not be used to manipulate Israel into delaying the extension of sovereignty to the Jewish areas of Yesha, nor should it be used as a tool to extend the TSS further. The Accords are strong enough to absorb these facts, and if they are not, well, the future will show us what might come next for the various parties who break with either their membership or their joining of the Accords. In any event, Israel should pursue her own interests against all others, be it those of the US or those of her Arab partners. I would suggest that by doing so, it will make the Accords a stronger arrangement, not a weaker one.
I believe the Abraham Accords were only conditioned upon tabling sovereignty not cancelling it. Well, it was tabled for a time and now it’s time to put it back on the table but without green lights or pre-conditions.
@Reader
I wasn’t set off. I disagree with your statement that
The presidents are controlled by the deep state administrators, but as Trump demonstrated, only to the point that the president actually allows themselves to be so, and Trump was easily not immune to the effects which the govt administrators can have on blocking or blunting his policy, as seen with the HCQ being blocked and the Syrian troop drawdown being manipulated against his orders. That being stated, the president has the authority and responsibility of seeing his policy executed, not the deep state’s established agenda. This is what set Trump apart from the other presidents, as he set about completely changing established policy in the Middle East, particularly, though not exclusively with regards to Israel.
Centcom means Israel commands a greater influence in the region in which she is situated. This was a significant step in both supporting the Abraham Accords and solidifying opposition to Iran. Israel still controls her own actions, as seen by her continued attacks in Syria, as well as her continued threat of taking on Iran independently if needed.
The funding halt was an expression of Trump’s policy, against the deep state State Dept, and when he left, so did that aspect of his policy.
You are quite correct, Israel does not need such authorization, which is why Israel should not wait for the US to re-authorize extending sovereignty, nor submit to the portion which the US authorized. But the fact that the US gave that recognition (even temporarily) was significant, as was its recognition of both Golan and Jerusalem as Israeli territory, even decades after Israel first recognized these things for herself.
I dispute this claim. Would you have the source for this, or the paragraph in the text? I believe you will find that this is not in the text of the Accords. As to understandings, the Accords came about due to the importance of matters which outdistanced the interests of the Pals, or the Accords would not have been signed.
This is because the Deep State is still in place, which is why we need Schedule F – it is the Deep State antidote, not a solution by itself, but a tool to control and wield the Deep State according to the decisions of the president, who was the only elected official in the vast US bureaucracy.
It is happening because the US govt was overthrown. And FYI, the Biden Replacement Bobblehead is the head of his own political mafia, ie he is a very bad guy, and the cause of many of the policy blunders, such as Ukraine, which were in place even before he stole the White House.
READER-
“Trump didn’t change the policy of the US’ Your dreaming, Or more truly, you are twisting facts into your own peculiar kind of reasoning. As you very often do, mainly, I think, to change the discussion into an adversarial argument, where you feel more comfortable, and keep it going.
TRUMP CHANGED THE POLICY OF THE U.S. In almost every possible way -to benefit Israel.
Your specious comment is worthless rubbish. We KNOW that Biden reversed whatever he could, but some of Trump’s changes are still there.
Peloni has detailed a list of most of them. You just can’t believably dispute them. You make a fool of yourself by trying.
How old are you anyhow???? You sound very young….and stubborn as hell.
My understanding of CentCom is that it bolsters the IDF, not takes control of it. How could it???not possible in a sovereign country.
@peloni
Centcom means that the US is now in charge of IDF – NICE![sarcasm]
The funding to the Arabs has been restored.
I don’t see why Israel needs American stamp of approval for the Golan, Judea and Samaria, Israel’s borders, or anything else including its “right to exist” – this is less sovereignty than an American state has.
Abraham Accords were signed with the understanding or an actual paragraph that Israel will not annex Judea and Samaria.
Yes, I mean that the American policy toward Israel was not changed, otherwise why would both the US and UN keep encouraging the Arab terror in Israel?
It is not happening because “Biden is a bad person”.
Anyway, what set you off?
I wasn’t even thinking about Trump when I wrote about the US strategy.
@Sebastien
Yes, you are quite correct. Thanks for the correction.
@Peloni
Wasn’t it 30 percent of Area C which, in turn is sixty percent of Yesha?
Really? Golan. Jerusalem. Centcom. Rhiyad speech. UNWRA defunded. PA defunded. Suleimani. Iran. IHRA definition of antisemitism. Taylor Force Act. Abraham Accords. Offer of 70% of Yesha…. We all know this list, even as you prove that knowing something and understanding it are not the same thing. Trump changed EVERYTHING about the US Israel policy as your next statement,
makes quite clear – if Trump didn’t change the US Israel policy, why was there a need to change anything back? These were not isolated tweeks to US strategy vis a vis Israel, nor were they tactical changes. These were long range changes which is why the Deep State administrators went crazy, even working with US enemies such as Iran and the PA to attempt to thwart Trumps changes.
If your meaning is that he left no indelible changes to US Israel policy, you are still quite mistaken. Who owns the Golan? Who is in Centcom? Where is Suleimani? Have the Abraham Accords completely disintegrated? …
His TSS would never have worked, but in it not working, it would have paved the path for an end to the TSS. This was the purpose of the Sunset Clause, which was another enormous change to the US Israel policy.
Wait a minute, you just said earlier that he didn’t make any changes to US Israel policy. Perhaps there is some confusion here, but you seem to be contradicting yourself within your own clarifying statement.
Indeed, Trump’s Middle East policy was encompassing. He did not approach anything as if in isolation, but pursued to change the entire Middle East, which is why the Abraham Accords were possible.
@peloni
Trump didn’t change the Israel policy of the US.
Most of his changes have been reversed, his peace plan was the usual TSS which didn’t work this time, fortunately, but the US has always pushed for it.
And we don’t know what caused his administration to apply those changes, maybe it was to help promote the TSS, who knows?
@Reader
If this were true, then how is do you explain how Trump so radically changed the Israel policy of the US?
@Sebastien Zorn
Exactly!
You have no idea how true this is (starting from ~8.5 min).
I am reading American Refugee Policy and European Jewry, 1933-1945 by Richard D. Breitman and Alan D. Kraut.
The authors wanted to show that antisemitism was not the real cause of the restrictive refugee policy for the European Jews but that the reasons were much more complex and complicated involving the bureaucracy, the interests of the country, etc., etc.
I think they ended up proving the opposite but in the process they described all the machinations that took place, the fancy and hypocritical language used, especially in the case of the British and the American governments.
While watching Yes, Minister, I realized that the techniques that were used then by the State Department were EXACTLY the same – of course, there is nothing funny about the book.
@Reader You mean like “Yes Minister” Episode 1: “Open Government?’ 😀
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4sjk1q
https://variety.com/2022/music/news/kanye-west-reddit-taylor-swift-appreciation-holocaust-awareness-1235448134/
@Sebastien Zorn
There is something I could never understand – why everyone in the US (including, and especially, allegedly smart Jews) and in some other countries (especially in Israel) thinks that a US president is not an elected and replaceable head of a republican (as “of a republic”) government but some kind of an absolute monarch or even someone akin to God Almighty in his unlimited powers.
A US President IS NOT A FREE AGENT, the US has a strategy that doesn’t ever change, all that changes is the tactics.
It seems to me that the last President who mistakenly thought he could do or say whatever he wanted was JFK.
A President does or says whatever his advisers and the heads of the federal agencies deem appropriate, it doesn’t mean he never argues with them, of course, or never asks for clarifications.
and in the White House. From 2 years ago:
https://youtu.be/rGCLpiaQ42Q
@Reader His good deeds on our behalf are too numerous and go back too far to say that as Peloni noted in some detail. But, people change and he never supported us to the point of completely rejecting Pal nationalism in any form so it remains to be seen whether it’s time to say, “thank you for your service, Mr. President, we’ll miss you,” hand him the gold watch and move on. or in the words he made so famous on “The Apprentice” that he hasn’t been able to bring himself to sa to Kanye and Co.
“YOU’RE FIRED!!” 😀
@Sebastien Zor
Well, maybe it’s because he isn’t what you thought he was?
@Honeybee Yes. By somebody. Anybody. Yes. It would be reported. What he actually said and how he was misrepresented about Charlottesville was reported. There was a big article in JNS saying what I am saying. JNS would report it. ZOA that didn’t retract the Herzl award it just gave him but is upset about this would report it. The fact that they also denounced Dems is irrelevant because it’s the primary coming up and DeSantis just stated that the territories are disputed not occupied.
Trump’s not the only candidate who supports Israel in the Republican party. And from the beginning, he always dithered about TSS. It was Cruz’s platform he accepted and put in the party platform when he won. He absorbed Cruz’s team. Caroline Glick endorsed Cruz in 2016 as Israel’s champion in the Senate.
All he said was he didn’t know anything. It’s about him?
Sebastien How do you know Trump has not denounced Ye? Would it have been reported?
Why hasn’t Trump publicly broken off relations with West and denounced him, Fuentes, and Yannapoulis? Why would he give business advice to a friend who is suffering losses on account
Of being an antisemitic demagogue?
Trump was the most pro-Israel, philo -semitic president, main reason I voted for him. twice.
Has he changed his mind or is he just unable to read the room?
I’m opposed
To globalism if that’s what’s going on with De Santis, and I don’t know that it is, in normal times, big donors have given to all the candidates, especially possible winners, even in both parties.
Not my primary concern though.
Juries out. The primary is in play, as far as I am concerned. Trump has to win me over. I didn’t completely trust him in 2016 and voted for Cruz after Huckabee dropped out and it was between the two of them.
https://www.jta.org/2022/12/02/united-states/ye-suspended-again-from-twitter-after-posting-swastika-following-pro-hitler-infowars-appearance