T. Belman. I support the deal. Israel is calling it a “truce”: “a suspension of hostilities for a specified period of time by mutual agreement of the warring parties;” “Ceasefire” is a synomyn.
A political official outlined the agreement for the release of the hostages in Gaza – which may be expanded during implementation. Assessment: The move will begin on Thursday.
By Nitsan Keidar, INN Nov 21, 2023, 6:27 PM (GMT+2)
Hostages in GazaMiriam Alster, Flash90
A political official presented this evening (Tuesday) the outline for the deal to release dozens of hostages from Hamas captivity and emphasizes that “all the security forces, the Shin Bet and the Mossad are in favor of the outline and also the entire war cabinet is united in favor of the proposal.”
As part of the deal, which is expected to go into effect on Thursday, 12 Israeli hostages will be released every day during the four days of the agreed-upon truce. In the event that Hamas agrees to additional truces – for each day of the truce, ten additional hostages will be released.
In Israel, they are counting on the possibility that Hamas could also release about 80 hostages.
The source emphasized that “we are talking about hostages who are all alive and are Israeli. Foreigners may also be released with the intervention of other countries with which Hamas is in contact.”
The first is the possibility of accepting more women and children after the first four days of respite that were agreed upon. “Hamas will be able to locate hostages these days that it claimed were not in its hands and could not locate them before the ceasefire.”
The source noted other achievements: prisoners convicted of murder will not be included in the deal, fuel will be brought into the Gaza Strip only on the days of the ceasefire and there will be no movement of Gaza citizens from the south of the Gaza Strip to the north under the terms of the ceasefire.
He emphasized that all aspects of the security issue were also examined. “There are a few hours of truce. The IDF and the Shin Bet clarified that there are intelligence-gathering capabilities and operational capabilities. During the six hours of the ceasefire, we will not be blinded on the ground and will continue fighting immediately at the end of the truce – as will be approved by the political echelon.”
To the question of whether Hamas will also return hostages who are in the hands of other organizations, the source answered: “Hamas, as far as we are concerned, is the one who needs to bring back the hostages, including those from the Islamic Jihad and other organizations. This is what they have committed to.”
Edit, uninformed. Where is the edit button?
@Felix, how was Yugoslavia formative in the same way as the present moment? A real question, not snark or anything negative. Your analysis would be interesting because, from the point of view of most Americans who were around during the Clinton years, most of us were just bewildered and uniformed about the situation in Yugoslavia, and it’s forgotten now, except for people like me who are interested in it. This is unlike the current situation, which everyone in the world is watching.
I watched Amir Avivi of the IDSF in a Zoom conference just now and he said he didn’t like the deal. the IDF was ready to deliver a coup de gras and destroy Hamas in north Gaza.. This deal was cooked up to prevent that from happening.
@rondo032@gmail.com, I read the article you referenced by Yigal Carmon. The suggestion was to place primary pressure on Qatar for release of all hostages. The means of achieving this pressure do not seem all that direct to me: For example the author gives the following:
1. Political pressure – declaring Qatar a state sponsor of terrorism, which it is, and implementing the accompanying legal sanctions.
Yes, Israel can declare Qatar a state sponsor of terrorism. Iran has been declared a state sponsor of terrorism and it hasn’t stopped Iran from sponsoring terror.
2. Legal pressure – filing international lawsuits over Qatari assistance to terrorist organizations, not just Hamas but also Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, and Hizbullah. Instead of accepting Qatar’s sheltering of the Hamas commanders, their extradition must be demanded.
Yes, Israel can file lawsuits, but lawsuits take time working their way through courts. Israel can demand extradition, but if Israel and Qatar do not have an extradition treaty, Qatar doesn’t have to extradite. Does anyone know if Israel and Qatar have an extradition treaty?
3. Economic pressure – by directly impacting, by various means, Qatari economic institutions that attract foreign investment.
How would economic pressure be placed on Qatar? And how could it be done fast enough to influence the hostage negotiations?
4. Security pressure – by striking Hamas commanders who have sheltered in Doha for years.
This can be done, but it is unclear that this measure would motivate Qatar to release the hostages quickly, rather it might have the opposite effect of making Qatar threaten to kill one hostage for each Hamas commander killed by Israel.
Also this article appears to be focused on Netanyahu as the cause of the hostages not being released yet, presumably because Netanyahu does not want to start a war with Qatar when the author thinks a war with Qatar would be a good idea. The author also says the hostage families do not want a war with Qatar, as they fear for their family members if that were to happen.
So I am confused by this: The author thinks the best way to get the hostages back is by attacking Qatar directly. 3 out of 4 of the ways he suggests to achieve this, would not be likely to achieve it by direct means quickly, but would take a long time, if they worked at all. Then he says the family members of the hostages don’t want Qatar attacked as they fear this will endanger their family members’ lives. And he blames Netanyahu for not having attacked Qatar directly and solved the problem thereby.
It seems to me Netanyahu has enough on his hands to defeat and destroy Hamas when the US is trying to tie the IDF’s hands with continual demands for humanitarian pauses, cease fires, giving of fuel to the enemy, etc. To then attack Qatar and start another war hoping this will achieve hostage release might not actually be the answer to the problem but might instead be another huge problem.
The US has the Al-Udeid air base in Qatar. If the US cared about Israel, the US could pressure Qatar perhaps by threatening to remove the air base from there as Caroline Glick suggested. But the US likely wants the air base there, so they probably won’t want to threaten something they wouldn’t carry out. And if Netanyahu starts a war in Qatar, a country in which the US has an air base, that could be difficult to explain to the US.
Netanyahu also has to deal with the threats coming from Hezbollah and Yemen, so it seems to me kicking the hornet’s nest in Qatar when these other threats are looming over Israel would not necessarily be prudent.
@Michael S. Thank you for your comment.
I agree with you. At this time the focus in Israel must be on destroying Hamas and return of the hostages. The other issues can wait until the first two objectives are achieved, unless Israel is forced to deal with them sooner.
How To Rescue All The Hostages Quickly – And Protect The West From The Islamic Terrorism Of The Crime Family That Rules Qatar
November 21, 2023 | By Yigal Carmon*
https://www.memri.org/reports/how-rescue-all-hostages-quickly-–-and-protect-west-islamic-terrorism-crime-family-rules
I am in agreement with previous comments, except Michaels. I need to think on that. Felix brings up a good point on
Hi, EvRe
I agree with your #1:
“The main focus at this point should be he complete and total destruction of Hamas”
That, to my knowledge, has been the official Israeli position since Oct. 7. Recovery of the hostages was their point #2. Nothing beyond this lends itself to practical discussion at this time.
I realize this is an article on the Israeli hostages. I agree with the comments that have been written so far on that subject.
The main focus at this point should be on the final outcome. Despite the fact that I am an American and a patriot, our government can no longer be trusted to support Israel. Therefore I believe that the final outcome of this war should be
1. the complete and total destruction of Hamas
2. the complete destruction of Hezbollah
3. removing Palestinians from the West Bank whose goal is the destruction of Israel
3. ending dependence upon the US for aid and military support.
The order of events may have to change depending upon how destructive to the needs of Israel the US government interventions might be in the coming days.
To illustrate my point, the US has required Israel to have on her borders millions of Palestinians who hate Jews, who don’t want a state of their own, and who willingly would give their lives to kill Jews and destroy Israel. This should have been seen as unacceptable, although at the time of Oslo, perhaps Israelis didn’t realize just how determined the Palestinian people as a whole were to destroy Israel and kill every single Jew in it.
This was not a peace plan, it was a death plan, and, indeed, that is what Israel experienced. That is why the political parties representing the Israeli peace movement lost so many elections that they are barely represented in the Knesset at this time. This is something most Americans especially Jewish Americans don’t understand.
The US government is trying to do this again to Israel: Biden saying “You (Israel) will have the PA running Gaza and the West Bank and you will leave and not have security control.” Arrangements are even being made with Gulf countries to chip in money to rebuild Gaza for the Palestinians on condition that Israel not have control, as if the US has the right to make these arrangements when Israel is a sovereign state and can make her own arrangements.
I think Israelis must make clear to whomever they have to in the US government, that “business as usual” is over since 10/7. There is a new reality that Israelis have had to face and that reality requires Israel to have control over the populations of people who want to kill them. If the US says “no dice” No aid if you are in control,” Israel must be willing to move on and find other partners with whom to do business. There are other countries that can sell military equipment to Israel. The US will be the big loser in this, because of the tremendous amount of intelligence that Israel shares with the US.
But at the moment the US-Israel relationship is a sado-masochistic one, in which Israel gets military equipment and a certain amount of money, in exchange for having to live side by side with millions of murdering thugs.
Why does Israel put up with a relationship on such degraded terms?
We now have a long history in which to judge the US as an ally to Israel. Except for the 4 years of the Trump Administration, the US has not been helpful to Israel, in fact it has been destructive of Israel.
I think a lot of things are going to have to change if Israel is going to move on from here and survive.
I support this. I do believe they are right to do this. It has been hard because the lives of young soldiers have been paid.
I am very keen that no hostage to remain.
Reading the articles I am sure the Israeli people have changed completely after this event October 7
Some things are very formative. This is one.
The other was Yugoslavia
There is a telescoping of these two events into present moment in time
And we just have to find the overall answer and time is no longer our friend.
As in all things, Israel chooses life over death.
Purchasing the lives of the hostages under the above stated terms will not change the outcome of the war, and this must be the ultimate calculus employed in gauging the decision of supporting the deal.
Some concern was held that the hostages released would be non-Israelis but it seems that has been puzzled out as untrue. Also the continuation of Israel’s surveillance over the territory was a significant requirement.
So the terms basically appear to be providing Hamas with a few more days and some quantity of fuel, not an inconsequential price, but not an impossible one either. In fact, I would suggest that these terms should be seen as being the best Israel could have hoped to expect, if she had any interest in saving these precious lives, which has always been a stated aim of the war.
While not ignoring the fact that the bargain struck to recover the lives of these innocent survivors of the Simchat Torah Massacre will come at the cost of Israeli soldiers, it should be recognized that if Israel knew the location of the hostages, it would immediately have acted to save them, while recognizing that some lives among both the hostages and the rescuers would be lost. And so, in striking the bargain, Israel placed the onus of the burden upon its armed forces, a calculus which no one could easily argue against.
Of course, it would have been better for all, if Israel had long ago come to the decision that bargaining for hostages is a self defeating enterprise, but such a decision is neither practical nor possible in a tiny nation where everyone is so well connected and invested in regaining even a few of the lives which were taken from us on that terrible day.
This will also place a greater burden upon the govt to see to it that after winning the war, that they also win the peace, which will require some measure greater than a military response to the threat which lies upon the border. Indeed to win the peace, it must be determined that there will be no threat possible from within Gaza, and that will require that there will be no Gaza from which the Jew hating Pals might once again launch another Jew Hunt in the future. Indeed, the horror of tolerating the genocidal Pals in Gaza, which has for too long been held as an acceptable political calculus, must be ended once and for all, because as I noted before, Israel must choose life over death.