T. Belman. Herzog’s plan will appeal to many Israelis. With all the terror attacks, the idea of separation is very appealing. But his plan requires Israel to stop building beyond the settlement blocs and allows the Arabs to do as they wish. I say, once we are building a wall around the settlement blocs and excluding parts of Jerusalem, we should move that wall much further east. We need the land and have to have more land around the airport. We have to include as much of Area C as possible. We should also keep the Jordan Valley permanently. Perhaps we should close down Qalquilya and Tulkaren which lie on our border and send the Arabs living there to outlying Jewish settlements and bring the settlers in to these areas. But at least Herzog wants the IDF to remain in place.
Two-state solution is impossible to realize under current conditions, opposition leader says, offers plan which includes completion of West Bank wall: ‘I wish to separate from as many Palestinians as possible, as quickly as possible.’
Opposition leader MK Isaac Herzog (Zionist Union) said the two-state solution was impossible to realize under current conditions on Tuesday, and presented a new diplomatic plan in which several Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem will be severed from the rest of the city and the separation barrier in the West Bank completed in a manner that includes all the settlement blocs.
“I wish to separate from as many Palestinians as possible, as quickly as possible” said Herzog, speaking at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv. “They over there and we over here; we’ll erect a big wall between us. That is the kind of co-existence that’s possible now. You exist there and we exist here. Ariel Sharon did the right thing when he put up the fence that prevented the infiltration of suicide bombers, but he didn’t finish the job. We want to finish it, to complete the barrier that separates us. We call it the establishment of a security line, the red line … Israel must part from Netanyahu so that it becomes possible to part from the Palestinians.”
Herzog said that Israel and the Palestinians are in the midst of a third intifada. “If we continue denying the truth it can become an intifada that’s crueler than the preceding ones, an intifada in the spirit of ISIS. But here people are still dreaming,” he noted. “Two nations with such a strong national consciousness, both claiming this land, can never live together in one state at peace. The nightmare in which Netanyahu is ‘managing the conflict’ blew up in our faces and stabbed all of us.”
The opposition leader noted that he had warned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as well as Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that a third intifada was imminent. “I did not find Netanyahu to be a partner to my demands, nor was Abbas a partner. This is how we got to the state of insecurity in which Israel’s residents now find themselves. Both leaders don’t have the leadership skills, the power or courage to make painful compromises…. It’s a mirror image of two leaders on either side of a barrier, two frightened and panicking leaders who only want to remain in power, two leaders who are paralyzed by fear.”
Herzog emphasized that there will be no progress under Netanyahu since he’s made “a pact with the extreme right wing.” He added that after the last elections he thought of looking into the possibility of a national unity government with Netanyahu “but Bibi was afraid of making a move, and if he’s afraid of moving I have nothing I can do with him. Bibi doesn’t deal with security – we’ll restore security. He won’t part from the Palestinians but we will. We don’t want to remain stuck with them. We don’t want to annex Judea and Samaria and give the right of return to three million Palestinians. This is what the extreme right wants, including Likud MKs Elkin, Levin and Hotovely. Netanyahu is too weak to oppose them or stop them.”
The plan Herzog proposed includes the following principles:
* Under current conditions a two-state solution is impossible. Nevertheless, Israel will maintain the principle of not taking steps that would vitiate a two-state solution geographically or diplomatically.
* Security activity against Hamas: “They will have no immunity and for every attack they’ll pay a heavy price. This won’t mean dummy bombings of empty areas. We’ll employ an effective iron fist and shut down their radio and TV stations. After that they won’t have internet or mobile phone services. They won’t be able to transmit instructions to terrorists. We’ll take harsh and severe steps, including ones directed at their leaders.”
* Completion of the security barrier around settlement blocs in the West Bank. “The separation barrier will prevent attacks in the settlement blocs that remain in our hands,” said Herzog. “The situation will be clear to everyone. We will be here and you, Palestinians, will be there. Live your lives, improve your economy, create employment. The blocs under Israeli sovereignty will be part of the permanent solution. They will serve as recipients of settlers from outside the major blocs.”
* Separation of Palestinian villages from Jerusalem. Herzog noted that in his plan the fence will be completed in the Jerusalem area in a way that will leave Palestinian villages outside city limits. “Then we’ll re-unite the true Jerusalem without hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who will remain on the other side of the barrier” he said. “Issawiya is not and won’t be part of Israel’s eternal capital. Neither is the refugee camp in Shoafat. We’ll separate from them. We’ll build a wall. Terrorists won’t have access to Jews. Those who want to work and make a living rather than stabbing people – we’ll leave those for the consideration of the defense establishment.”
* Confidence building measures vis-à-vis the Palestinians. “Palestinians will have total freedom in civil but not military matters. They’ll be able to build new cities and expand existing ones, to develop agriculture, industry, employment.” Herzog said that the IDF will continue to control the entire West Bank in order to prevent terror. “The IDF will continue to sit on the eastern border in the Jordan valley. After a few years, if things are quiet, we can discuss what’s next,” he said.
* Convening a regional security conference with the participation of moderate Arab countries. “Such a conference could change the situation in this region,” he said. “Together we can build a united security front against extremist Islamic terror in the Middle East, in which our separation from the Palestinians is an integral part.”
@ Felix Quigley:Bibi in my opinion would act less defensively and more positively if the USA had a President who was a friend and was not constantly threatening Israel with diplomatic abandonment.
Bibi is now quietly allowing the expansion of Israeli land in Judah/Samaria. In part I believe because it is needed and also Obama is a lame duck who is starting to have less influence.
Trump is starting to look as the likely GOP candidate (to my surprise) but will he win the general election? Compared to Hillary I hope so. We will know in November of this year.
Question is who is Donald Trump? GOP stands for small government (does Trump)? Trump foreign policy what would that be like? He says pro Israel ( I hope so). What else would it be? He is certainly a populist who is appealing to many people. Conservative I have great skepticism!
What foreign policy people would Trump choose to advise him or will it all be seat of the pants? He now is for the USA embassy in Jerusalem. So he has learned about this issue since his first being questioned about it by Jewish Caucus of the GOP. In other words by the time he got in front of the large and important contingent of evangelicals in the GOP.
Two things must happen. It will not solve it but can make easier ground for Israel to work with. Number one Trump must become President. Number two an end to Netanyahu…Bennett would be better in Alliance with Feiglin, in any case an end to the hypocricy of Netanyahu. Netanyahu is not all bad by any means but we move into a new period when stalling is not suited to what is needed. By far the most important thing for Israel and Jews is the election of Trump.
Moderation ?
The issue which needs to change is that Bibi is parroting the BS of the two state solution because he is afraid if he stops that Obama will turn his back on him in the UN and Abbas will get his UN resolution in the Security Council saying Palestine is East Jerusalem and the holy places plus all of Judah/Samaria.
So Bennett is right we have no Israeli policy on Judah/Samaria.
Bibi wants to quietly take more control of more land in Judah/Samaria and create realities without big political announcements so as not to come into conflict with the world powers. How long can this run? Big part is Israeli politics and how the population feels about the security situation.
I left something out. If you read this report carefully you will note the Herzog wants to demonstrate his security chops. He is positioning himself to the right of Bibi on security.
One more thing. The Left in Israel knows that they can’t sell Israelis on the idea of a peace deal. There is no more peace camp.
So Herzog is totally dropping “peace” and offering a unilateral solution such as what the right might offer. It is for this reason that I said that Bibi will be forced to offer his plan, obviously to the right of Herzog.
Bibi is being attacked by leaders in the left and in the right for sitting on the fence. He must come up with a plan of action.
The Land appropriation by Israel to near Jericho to the Dead Sea and having it link up all the way to Eilat.
This combined with the expansion of Gush Etzion in E-2 so that it will be contiguous all the way to Hebron makes a picture of an Israeli government without big pronouncements is quietly now starting to work on strengthening its hold on Judah/Samaria.
My hope is that when Obama is gone and hopefully replaced by a friend in the White House the Israeli government will take even more action such as building in E-1.
The debate in Israel will be what to annex defacto such as Herzog is talking about or what to formally annex in addition to defacto.
No Israelis except a few insignificant people in small numbers believe a two state solution is viable. So step one in Israel is nearly achieved. It must be pronounced dead to the world and explained.
Step two will be annexation of parts of Judah/Samaria.
Ted Belman Said:
judging from everythng BB does as opposed to says I would expect his plan of what to keep, outside of staying in the valley for security, would be closer to Herzogs plan than Bennetts. It is under BB reign that we hear discussions of no new buildings outside existing blocks, giving away the pal towns next to Jerusalem to PLO, talk of swaps for the existing blocks,etc etc.
The best that BB would hope for is that the pals declare a state and that he keeps their “state” contained in a and b, hoping that the passage of years will render it a dispute between 2 states where the continued status quo of C, minus some land giveaways for their cities near their densely populated areas,ends up being the default position. In fact, I would not be surprised if he and abbas have already understandings of how things will proceed punctuated with lots of the usual drama for the folks in the gallery.
Obama is not going anywhere.
@ Ted Belman:
It just occurs to me that any agreement Israel is a signatory to will be exploited to force Israel down to insensible and indefensible borders or in some way vulnerable, more vulnerable at present to infiltration, attack or trouble, Un action or whatever. Any proposal for any kind of agreement needs to be examined throughly to the point of exhaustion and then some. No matter what gestures Israel makes the other side will always claim that the occupation continues and terrorism or what they term “resistance” is a legitimate form of protest while any self defense by Israel is defined as illegal. Honestly, let us face the situation, it is a shell game, we are going to lose. Just define your borders and be prepared for the worst and do what is necessary to safeguard lives of this and future generations. One of the main problems is the timid nature of Israel, when it comes to demanding it’s property rights, enough of the harping on “security concerns”, speak of Jewish rights and take what is yours.
Nothing should be contemplated until Obama is out.
all these children who confuse their wants with reality are yearly flocking to the fore with their panacea of “new” ideas. The best approach is to restrict the pals to a and b for now and make their economy suck so that they will want to leave. Destabilize the hashemites in Jordan and then push the enemy over the river. Herzog admits that there is no partner but he is in a rush to give YS to whoever these non partners are. He is an idiot: you give less to those who dont cooperate NOT more. Herzog is coming around to saying that they are no partner and thus the enemy, but he does not want to treat them like an enemy and he wants to give the enemy the Jewish patrimony. I hope that idiot falls flat on his foolish face and stop wasting everyone’s time with his naive drivel.
Its nice to have such ideas but what is the likelihood that the pals will do what Herzog wants and leave the Jews. Perhaps if he says “abra cadabra” or maybe “presto chango” he will then get the fantasy he seeks.
Lets hope that the pals actually give one crap about what Herzog “wants”….. my wager is that they dont. apparently Herzog has in his portfolio of powers a magic wand which simply allows him to declare a solution, wave his wand and shazam….. Everything that Herzog advocates is old ideas recycled which have no chance of panning out as the young little boy herzog expects.
is Herzog BB’s echo??????
gosh, apparently he gets no memos as BB has been carrying on this agenda now for years…. if you take away the things Herzog says which BB says and does then Herzog is left with no agenda of his own.
The only difference is that Herzog is in a great hurry to give away as much land as possible to the muslims to build their homes on the jewish homeland of YS. He believes that if you give away as much as possible in a great hurry that the other side will give you peace rather than double down on their apparent good luck in finding an idiot to negotiate with who gives everything for nothing.
Herzog appears to have fallen for that old disease of believing his own bullshiite. He had such good luck with his absurd moniker of “zionist union” to describe his party whose only platform is to give away as much land as fast as possible to muslims to build their homes in Judea Samaria. He told the Jews that giving muslims the jewish homeland to build their homes was a “zionist” platform and the dummies believed him and voted yes.
A man who calls himself a zionist with his platform has not one shred of integrity. The lowest con artists are those that give themselves names which pretend to be the opposite of what they are.
Gosh, I wonder where Herzog got his plan for separating from the pal villages… some of his other plans such as now is not the time for peace or 2 states also sounds familiar
HMMMMMM??????
I wonder if Herzog heard it from BB?
Herzog is starting to sound like BB……..
I wonder if BB is withholding his real plans from those who elected him????????
@deanblake:
It might be time for the occupants and their leaders to bear the consequences of their years of obstructionism and recalcitrance. God willing, when they no longer have an Obama who not only allows but encourages their rejectionist behaviour, and they begin seeing their options increasingly diminish, then perhaps they will begin to think about making peace. Until then they’ll have no interest in a “peace treaty”.
Interest in a peace treaty on the part of the Arabs of Yehuda v’Shomron would davka be a break from the status quo.
Expansion of agricultural lands will result in a change in the status quo without negotiations as taking barren/unused land and converting it to agricultural use gives new land rights to the farmer. Agricultural expansion without a Peace Treaty should be prohibited.
@ Ted Belman: Elsewhere I read he is including Ariel and ALL of the settlment blocks.
What Ted is correct about is that many Israels who want the Palestinians to just go away will like this plan. Lapid says similar things. In the next election they would actually have a platform to run (this separation plan).
The right needs to enact Bennett’s plan (or something close to it) by annexing Area C and protecting all Jewish Towns and annexing whatever of B is needed for contiguous security.
Herzog’s idea is still based on a two state solution someday and is Israel is taking the settlement blocks unilaterally without so stating for the future but by inference.
It is not close to enough for security and leaves out 1000s of Israeli’s in many small Jewish Towns on the wrong side of the wall.
Want a wall put one around every large PA Town starting with Hebron.
Is it an unintended consequence of Bougie’s proposal to force Bibi to act? It seems out of character.
Will Obama sit idly by?
@ JoeBillScott:
Bibi has been trying to cut a deal whereby he could build in the blocks in exchange for not building elsewhere but could never get consent to build in the blocs.
I wonder if the US State Dept will like Obama’s buddy’s suggestion?
To expand on my preface I would point out that this is in essence the “convergence plan” touted by Olmert and others. Herzog wants the settlers in the small settlements to move voluntarily into the settlement blocs. I don’t think they will.
Herzog didn’t bother to identify which settlement blocs he is referring to. They should include Ariel and Maaleh Adumin.
For me, the key issue is where to build the wall or what to include in Israel. I say include what we want of Area C including the Jordan Valley.
I believe that this plan will force Netanyahu to act. He will not be able to sit on the fence, pardon the pun. He will adopt a variation of Herzog plan which is closer to Bennett’s Plan.