Op-Ed: INN
By MK Rabbi Haim Amsalem, Chairman of the Am Shalem political movement whose internet site is.www.amshalem.org
MK Rabbi Amsalem calls for hareidi young men to join the IDF, saying: “While a few select and elite scholars must always be designated to focus exclusively on Torah study, the rest of the nation, including Hareidim, must go to fight.”
The Syrian leader, Antiochus, sent his general, Apollonius, together with a large army to Jerusalem in the year 167 B.C.E. He did so after trying to force the Jews to assimilate by appointing Hellenized Jews such as Menelaus to leadership posts.
The Jews of Jerusalem fought against these Jewish traitors with success so Antiochus sent his own army to take care of the Jewish problem. Soon enough, his forces began to massacre the Jews and decrees of death were declared for essentially all displays of Jewish behavior.
Who would we expect to rise up against this strong and vicious army which had spread its terror to the suburbs of Jerusalem, as well? Based on our modern world we would have to imagine the following scenario: The more religious Jews would focus on Torah study and prayer out of a belief that this, and only this, would lead God to bring about a salvation, while those who were not interested in Torah study or perhaps less religiously committed, would organize themselves and fight the war. We can certainly imagine the religious leadership saying, “The soldiers should go out and fight and we will support them and even guarantee their victory through our spiritual pursuits.” The Kohanim, religious priests who are not permitted to become impure through contact with a dead body, would certainly proclaim, “We cannot go to war because of the Torah prohibitions against our becoming spiritually contaminated.”
But, that is not what actually occurred. A family of religious priests left their world of Torah study and sacrificial offerings to fight the Syrian-Greek soldiers. Matityahu called out “Whoever is for God let him come to me!” and, together with his five sons he managed to rally an army of 6,000 people who conducted successful guerilla warfare against a mighty army.
A religious leader calling, “Whoever is for God follow me to war?” What about studying Torah? What about the prohibition of becoming impure? Shouldn’t Matityahu have called out, “Whoever is for God come to the yeshiva to study?” If a Matityahu were to arise today and call followers of God to war would he not be branded a “heretic,” a “breacher of the fences of holiness,” and, worst of all, God forbid, a “Zionist?”
The answer is crystal clear. Many in the current day Hareidi leadership would react that way and it is they who are modern and reformers and it is they who have strayed from Torah tradition. Throughout our glorious history, true Torah leaders have understood that there are times when we must go out and fight our enemies. Sincere spiritual greats had the wisdom to see the sanctification of God’s name which comes through defeating those who seek to destroy His people.
For thousands of years, those who read the Torah without bias or hidden agendas read that when the Jews were trapped between the approaching Egyptian army and the Sea of Reeds and cried out to God for salvation, God replied, “Why are you crying out to Me? Go and do something about it.” And it is because of spiritual giants like the Maccabees, with their clarity regarding the will of God, that the Jews were saved from the tyranny of the Syrian-Greek forces, and from persecution in other eras.
The concept of proper training and preparedness for war is so important in Torah thought that Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish philosophers and experts on Jewish law, actually blames our banishment into exile on our not training properly for war. He wrote the following words in a letter to the Jews of Marseilles: “This is the reason why we lost our kingdom, our Temple was destroyed, and our exile has been so long…because they followed after astrologers…and did not involve themselves in studying about war and conquering lands…and, therefore, the prophets called them fools…”
Thank God we have returned to our homeland after 2,000 years of exile. We are in a constant state of battle against our enemies. We, as Haredim, cannot let the burden of fighting fall to our secular and religious Zionist brothers. Moses made this clear when he proclaimed, “Will your brothers go to war and you will sit here?” We have an absolute mitzvah to join in the fight. As the Maccabees demonstrated, while Torah study is of high-level importance in our tradition, saving lives supersedes most other commandments.
While a few select and elite scholars must always be designated to focus exclusively on Torah study, the rest of the nation, including Hareidim, must go to fight.
Many may question my suggestion that all Israelis serve based on religious grounds. After all, doesn’t the army present religious challenges for the soldiers?
The answer to this question is very straightforward. It must first be stated that IDF officially observes Jewish law from its creation and this policy is part of its Supreme Command Code. Aside from this, the IDF has made adjustments in recent years which transformed serving into a completely appropriate experience for soldiers of all religious backgrounds.
Nachal Hareidi is a unit made up of religious soldiers with Torah classes and prayer services offered daily and many religious sensitivities are taken into account including the absence of women on the base. The Shachar program is offered to Hareidi men who have already learned Torah for four or more years after the age of 18. This program offers 26 different vocational training tracks including computer programming, electrical engineering, technical writing, and even truck driving. There are no women in their areas of the base, no female commanders, and they keep to the highest standard of kashrut. These soldiers are off for Shabbat, Friday, and all holidays.
So, the claim that any group cannot share in the national burden of army service because of religious concerns is a non-issue in our times. It should also be mentioned that the more Hareidim join the IDF, the more the IDF will adapt even further to meet the specific needs of that community.
As we light the candles and contemplate our miraculous victory over the Greeks, we must remind ourselves that God saved us when a group of righteous and spiritual men rallied around the cry of “Who is for God?” and let go of their holy spiritual activities to pursue the holiness of fighting to defend the honor of God, His land, and His people.
God fearing people must do the same in our times, as well
If you think Yiftach was a bandit your knowledge of Torah is limited at best.
Apparently my knowledge of Tanach is better than yours;
“vatehi al Yiftach ruach Hashem” aval he was still a BANDIT.
Yiftach of Gil-ad was a man of valor but he was the son of a harlot, and Gil-ad had begat him. Gil-ad’s wife bore him other sons, and when the children of that woman grew up, they drove Yiftach out, saying to him: “you shall not inherit in our father’s household, for you are the son of another woman!” Yiftach therefore fled from his brothers and dwelt in the district of Tov, and reckless men soon gathered about Yiftach and forayed with him (11:1-3).
YIFTACH’S LINEAGE – TWO DIMENSIONS
As I said the hareidim don’t learn Tanach, Please re-educate yourself with regards to this topic and in general.
What’s your excuse when you aren’t sick? Maybe you are always suffering from a bad cold? 🙂
I couldn’t resist.
G-d’s reason for commencing the repatriation of His People to the Land of Israel, even in the absence of their sincere and complete repentance for their sins, and for utilizing, as His Agents, secular Zionists who denied His very Existence, was declared by the Prophet Ezekiel, speaking in G-d’s Name:
This is analogous to G-d’s Motivation for permitting the Jewish people’s original return to, and conquest of, the Land of Israel under the leadership of Joshua. As Moses explained to the Jewish people at that time: “Do not say in your heart, when HaShem pushes them [the Canaanite nations] away from before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness does HaShem bring me to possess this Land’; for, because of the wickedness of these nations does HaShem drive them away from before you. Not because of your righteousness and the uprightness of your heart are you coming to possess their Land, but because of the wickedness of these nations does HaShem, your G-d, drive them away from before you, and in order to establish the Word that HaShem swore to your forefathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. And you should know that not because of your righteousness does HaShem, your G-d, give you this good Land to possess it; for, you are a stiff-necked people.” (Deut. 9:4-6).
The Sin:
While the Shoah did not create the State of Israel, the absence of the State of Israel did create the Shoah. It is often declared that the existence of the modern State of Israel was the direct result of the Shoah; but this is certainly False. For, Israel exists neither due to Europe’s alleged guilty conscience over its complicity in the Shoah nor due to United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (commonly known as the Palestine Partition Plan) issued in the wake of the Shoah — which resolution was nonetheless rejected by the Arab leadership of Mandatory Palestine as well as by each and every Arab and (non-Arab) Muslim state which was then a member of the United Nations — but due only to the fact that the G-d of Israel enabled the renascent Jewish State to militarily defeat the six Arab states which, together with local Arab militias drawn from villages, towns and cities throughout the Land of Israel, had subsequently sought to annihilate the Jewish State from the face of the Earth. Yet, it is undeniably True that the Shoah was the direct result of the non-existence of the modern State of Israel. For, had the Jewish State already existed when Nazi Germany arose from the ashes of World War I, virtually all of those who perished in the Shoah would, instead, have been forcibly expelled by Nazi Germany to a welcoming Israel; and, consequently, there would have been no Shoah.
“Israel’s degradation is the desecration of the Name of the L-rd.” (Rashi, Ezekiel 39:7)
“For you are to pass over the Jordan to go in to possess the Land which the L-rd your G-d giveth you, and you shall possess it and dwell therein.” (Deuteronomy 11)
“And they scorned the desirable land.” (Psalms 106)
“What is the reason that the righteous shall not receive their full reward in the World to Come? It is because of the tininess that was amongst them.” (Sotah 48) “Tininess of faith.” (Rashi)
No one can remain normal without a state, a nation, a concept of nationhood and statehood. The religion that was totally intertwined with land and earth and nation and power, becomes a pale, vapid set of rituals. When roots have lost their hold on the land, they slowly die of malnutrition.
So instead of actually answering you just say baloney. What an easy way to have a debate, this takes me back to the 2nd grade. I gave you a logical understanding of their mindset and you say baloney. So what do I say now?
Hogwash, rubbish, nonsense… gimme a break.
If you think Yiftach was a bandit your knowledge of Torah is limited at best.
I’m sorry if you are offended, but the Talmud says Yiftach in his generation was like Shmuel in his generation. Shmuel in his generation was like Moshe and Aharon in their generation.
Your perspective is flawed, if you think that people mentioned in the Tanach are within your comprehension and understanding, then you still have much to learn.
Please re-educate yourself with regards to this topic and in general.
Thanks for the explanation, Catarin. It was Abraham who bought a tomb for Sarah, of course, not Moses. That’s all right — I posted yesterday about the danger to Israel of a nuclear-armed Israel (meaning Iran). I have a bad cold — can’t think clearly.
Bland Oatmeal: The articles about the Amish were in my local paper or in the online news I read. I thought the story of the Amish girl killed by the bullet shot into the air was astounding, so I included it. No ulterior motives.
I grew up with the God preached in the Lutheran Church. I never believed that He was a fierce g-d who I should fear. At the risk of sounding ridiculous, I played a game with G-d when I was little. I would walk on the curb and then suddenly jump down and say, you didn’t know I was going to do that, did you? So studying the Jewish g-d is something I have little experience in until recently, like ten years ago, when I started studying Biblical criticism. Of course I’m not going to have the same relationship with Him as a Jew does, because I have not been schooled from childhood in His Way.
Biblical Archaeology Review magazine used to put out a separate magazine called Bible Review that would take verses in the Torah and give the back story and point out things to make us think. The story of Moses buying the cave for Sarah’s grave made me cry it was so moving. Unfortunately the present economic times has caused the publication to cease, although it is available on CD.
In the recent Biblical Archaeology Review there is an article about the layers of Jerusalem. Digs are all over the Old City and are giving evidence of Roman times, like the grid they built for traffic.
Catarin,
I often read Xinhua, and sometimes read pravda.ru; but I never read these “scoops” about the Amish. You must have some pretty anti-American news sources.
If you really want to know about the Amish, they are a fairly small group in America. The only time I ever saw obviously practicing Old Order Amish in their full regalia was once on a train in Wisconsin and once in a little town in Iowa. (My experience with haredi Jews is about as “deep”). They are very used to difficulties with the laws of countries where they have lived, because they seek to practice a lifestyle that is very different to their neighbors’ — a situation similar to that of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. Like the Jews, most of them have come to North America because we afford them the best accomodation for their beliefs and practices.
You cited an example of an Amish person being killed by a stray bullet, fired over a mile away. I have no idea why you mentioned that. Are you equating it to the Holocaust? There’s no comparison.
Concerning study of the Bible, Yamit and I have been at odds over this for years. He looks, as do you, to the rabbis and sages of the Middle Ages and early Modern times for inspiration; I look solely to the scriptures themselves. Of course, many people have looked into the scriptures to extract this doctrine or that, and re-arranged them to suit their fancy. This is not the way to learn scripture; nor is Yamit’s way correct, though his is the standard religious Jewish approach to things. You yourself have said how desparately wrong the understanding of the rabbis was during Hitler’s time. Why would someone trust them for wisdom to govern their daily lives? As I said, this is the traditional Jewish way; and they are free to believe what they will.
If you want to really understant the BIBLE, though, you have to read the scriptures themselves. The key to understanding is that you need to practice those scriptures, ALL of them, in your everyday life, with your whole heart and to the best of your understanding. As the Christian scriptures say, “He that would get anything from God must first believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him”. Certain people of all faiths have gone on this quest throughout the ages, and they have ALL been persecuted. The reason the Christian church has strayed as far off base as it has, it that they have culled from their ranks sincere believers and accepted only conformists.
You have the choice of being a conformist, or of finding God. The two are really incompatible.
I am a student, and no, I’m not able to read the Torah and get the right meanings from it. Which is why I like reading Biblical criticism–it tells me the meaning. I want only the Jews’ interpretation. There are many protestant religions in the U.S. who have interpreted the Torah on their own and have come out with ludicrous interpretations.
I didn’t know the Jews had been warned over and over again to get out of Europe.
We are seeing strange things in the Amish sect in America. A family in Ohio took it upon themselves to judge its Amish neighbors and attacked people at home, cutting off the beards of the men, because they didn’t think other Amish were pious enough. Usually the news about Amish is they were killed when cars ran into their buggies. The bad family is being prosecuted. Unbelievably, a man in Ohio, I think, fired a shot in the air that killed an Amish girl over a mile away as she was driving her buggy.
Then there is the broom fight at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, Franciscans and Armenians fighting each other over territory. People are going nuts.
Baloney. They were as surprized as their deluded followers, that they had to die in the concentration camps. That was not heroism nor piety. Their ENORMOUS sin, is that they led six million Jews to their death by prophesying a false hope.
Good. Now go back to Gen. 1:26-27 (The keys to the Bible are all in the first chapter).
God created us in His image, male and female; because He wanted a RELATIONSHIP with us (“male & female” betokens a relationship). That relationship is based on faith and love; if we leave those out, we do not have a relationship with God. God commanded the Israelites to attack at a certain time, even though it LOOKED as though they could not conquer the inhabitants of the land; because He wanted them to begin their life in the promised land on the basis of faith. They chose to go in through their own reasoning and their own estimation of their strength, rather than through faith in God’s love and faithfulness. They chose to go in, in other words, without a proper relationship.
The Israelites had to wander for 40 years, because that’s how long it took to purge out the generation that had learned, probably from having looked upon God as their new Pharaoh rather than who He was, to continually rebel and disobey their Maker.
The ages of Caleb and Joshua were irrelevant. Joshua refused to even try to conquer the land, except God send his angel to go before them. He did not go in on his own strength.
The Haredim, for the most part, have been waiting for Moshiach to come, to tell them what to do. Instead of sending Moshiach, God sent an ordinary human, not even a religious man, Theodor Herzl, to lead them into the land. I believe their main objection to Zionism was not the fact that Moshiach had not come; but the fact that Moshiach, in a fashion, HAD come in the person of Herzl; and they despised him because of their religious pride. Moses was despised in the same way by the people of his generation, even though he was obviously the “Moshiach”, or “Anointed One” of his generation. Hashem showed us through Herzl, that God does not require learning nor religious standing, but rather faith and obedience. Herzl had these, though he was not religious; and the religious missed the boat because of their pride.
Those rabbis preferred the physical death the Nazis, may their name be erased, had to offer, over the spiritual death that the Zionists, may their name be erased, had to offer. I understand that you have no spiritual connection, which is why you view Judaism as nothing more than a country oriented nationality. God created a system to worship him, you come along and decide that it should be changed, or is irrelevant. You are exactly the reason the rabbis were afraid of the Zionists cult. You consider yourself a freethinker, I imagine, I consider you uneducated and crude, to scared to learn your own Jewish scripture that is thousands of years old, afraid of obligation, of difficulty. However, I don’t hold you to blame, from personal experience I know what it feels like to be on the other side, but you must be more open minded. Before making such bold remarks, you should inquire as to what the other party has to say. If not, you’re just letting out your anger unjustly on scapegoats that you have created for yourself.
See Herzl and Zionisim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1UL-YD_TTE
These Haredi men are acting terrible. There was an article in the paper about them harrassing the eight year old girl. What kind of decrepit human does that? Seems there’s a sense of superiority in their attitude. They sound exactly like some Muslims trying to put and keep their women down. The thing they have in common with Muslim men is that their pronouncements are always against women and children, and do not cause the men any inconvenience. If they want to pay respect to the past, they should do without electricity.
The spitting thing is also making the news. In America children are spanked for spitting, and I don’t see this occurring here except in the movies. Spitting spreads disease.
I read chapters 13 and 14 of Numbers. What happened is that after the spies returned, G-d told them to take the land _right now_, but the spies said the people in the Promised Land were too strong for them and refused. So G-d told them they would have to stay in the desert for 40 years, yes? And why? How is it that Joshua and Caleb were still strong enough to lead them to war? Being they were in their 60s by then? Why did G-d blame Moses for this, and is this before Moses received the Ten Commandments, then killed many in the group for worshiping the golden calf? I think G-d was too tough on Moses.
I prefer reading what the scholars say about Bible verses, because I don’t feel I’m able to interpret the Bible correctly. Above I have not got the precise reasoning for the 40 year stay.
Those rabbis were false prophets, plain and simple. Balaam’s jackass will condemn them all in the life to come.
I don’t know if you watched the movie that I linked to, but you should. Any person who watches that should be able to understand Jewish history of the past century. The name “Hareidim” you like to refer to did not exist before Zionism. The name “Hareidim” was given to characterize those who opposed the Zionists, which was mainly the entire Jewish community. All the great rabbis of that time opposed the Zionists fiercely, and opposed the Rav Kuk as well. Unfortunately, he erred, there was no other Rabbi of his stature that agreed with him in his generation. If you still feel that he was right, which I think is ridiculus, I respect you and your opinion while disagreeing with it. However, why you do not respect the Hareidim and their opinion is above me. If you would be so kind as to explain to me your view on calling your fellow religious Jews devout as they are to be parasitical and many other colourful insults, meanwhile having no complaints regarding the rest of the secular and assimilating Jews, it would very much help me to understand you, and maybe you to understand me.
I have yet to watch the last movie you linked to, I ran through it, but will have to put aside the time to watch it beginning to end.
Eitan:
I will expand on this thought: Some of the nicest people I have known are Haredim, the spiritual depth, ethics, and morality of many rabbis are unparalleled. Their devotion to the Torah, which they study in poverty with the utmost dedication, is mind-boggling. But the hard question is whether their Judaism is true. Should Jews be nice? Torah scholars? Or should we live a full-bodied national life with secular studies, secular jobs, and wars?
The Bible offers no indication that G-d wants Jews to live monastic or semi-monastic lives. We’re repeatedly commanded to settle the land, work it, and fight.
For 2000 years, without the physical possibility of returning to Israel to rebuild our Jewish State, we had to make do with the exile. In order to strengthen their communities, rabbis and Jewish educators concentrated on the handful of commandments that could still be performed, like kashrut, Shabbat, tefillin, the holidays, tzedaka, good character traits. For 2000 years, without the physical possibility of returning to Israel to rebuild our Jewish State, we had to make do with the exile. Lacking our own Jewish Land, Judaism became the performance of ritual commandments, in many ways, a religion like any other, stripped of the Torah’s encompassing national foundation. Wandering in foreign lands, our identities as Israelites was lost. We became Germans and Moroccans and Yemenites and Frenchmen and Americans who practiced the religion of Judaism, the small remnants of the Torah that we still had in the lands of our dispersions. But that isn’t what Torah is. Torah is the national constitution of the Israelite nation, filled with the national commandments of conquering the Land of Israel, establishing a Jewish monarchy, a Sanhedrin, a Jewish army, a Jewish police force, and a Jewish economy based on the unique agricultural laws pertaining to the Holy Land. The goal of the Torah is not just to perform ritual mitzvot, but to establish a Torah State in the Land of Israel. This is what we have been praying for ever since we were exiled and scattered to foreign lands – to return to Zion and Jerusalem in order to rebuild our fallen Israelite Kingdom. This is the Redemption we long for – at least the Redemption which we are supposed to long for.
We are at the height of a milchemet mitzvah, a compulsory war, as Rambam taught: “What is a milchemet mitzvah? It is a war to assist Israel against an enemy that has attacked them.” (Hilchot Melachim 5:1)
milchemet mitzvah dochei ( puts aside) all other mitzvot in the torah) even Shabbat and Yom Kippur. Even the concept of P’kuach Nefesh Dochei Kol HaTorah. In wars people die on both sides.
No one is exempt from fighting a milchemet mitzvah except cowards. In a milchemet mitzvah even a bride from her chupah is expected to participate in battle. **(Rav Ovadiah Yosef defends the Sefer Hachinuch and states that the obligation of women in a milchemet mitzvah is in providing food for the soldiers. However, the Minchat Chinuch and Maharil Diskin felt that women are obligated in war and therefore required to hear Parshat Zachor. The accepted custom is for women to come to shul and hear Parshat Zachor.)
All the prophets and sages who relate to the rebirth of the Jewish People in their land after the two-thousand-year-long exile note that the Third Temple will be built amidst wars. As our sages said, “In the seventh year there will be wars. At the end of that period, the son of David will come.”
The nations of the world have not resigned themselves to the idea that our people is rising to rebirth. They are striving their utmost to extinguish the flame of Israel, which is burning brighter and brighter.
Thus, our wars are milchemot mitzvah – compulsory wars.
We must be strong and courageous on behalf of our people and on behalf of the cities of our G-d.
I consider to a very large extent that the haredim are an anachronism belonging to the Galut and not a Judaism that is nationalistically land orientated as is the original intent of the Torah. (A chosen people living in a Chosen Land) Whether you agree or not we are back in the Land except for north America most of the Jews have been as was prophesied brought back from the exile. We have a Jewish politi, a Jewish army, some Jewish laws, more Torah learning is being learned than at any time in Jewish history.
I believe that much if not most of the laws and customs of individual purity must be transferred to upholding the purity of the land. The walls around the torah instituted by the rabbis to preserve Judaism in the galut are no longer necessary here in Israel. The rabbis succeeded in their goal of preserving Judaism and it’s time to consider reverting back to the Judaism that existed before the exile, which was not difficult and natural for a people living in their own land with political sovereignty.
Of course I care about Jews but consider the physical safety of the Jewish people primary.
Strength inhibits assimilation. For American Jews, in the 1967 war “we won,” but in the peace process “they are giving the land away.” The Diaspora identifies with strong Israel, and dissociates from the weak.
I was alluding to your comparison of Chanuka and Purim. While superficially you are correct you ignore the history and do not ans. Mai Chanukah in context. That context was that few Jews joined the Maccabees and a civil war lasting over 20 years was as all civil wars a bloody affair costing countless lives. The Jews gained autonomy but not sovereignty from the Greeks but the real enemy was the enemy within Ha Mityevanim, and I find it interesting to note that the rebellion was led by a priestly class and not the Perushim.
Purim
The Gaon of Vilna taught that there are two exceptions to the principle that every Yom Tov is chatzi la’Shem v’chatzi lachem – devoted by halves both to G-d and to our pleasures and enjoyment,. The exceptions, he said, are Yom Kippur, devoted exclusively to matters of G-d and spirit, and Purim, devoted primarily to physical pleasures.
Ma Nishtana!
On all other holidays we observe mitzvot commanded by G-d while at the same time we eat festive meals, make Kiddush, dress beautifully, and share worldly pleasures. But Yom Kippur is all spirit and Purim is all pleasure! No chatzi v’chatzi!
Ma Nishtana!
These days, the Gaon teaches, Purim k’Purim – are in reality two halves of a single day.
In Judaism, it is impossible for spirit to exist apart from the flesh or for flesh to exist without spirit. There can be no gashmiyot without ruchaniyot; the two must be integrated and synthesized.
In short Purim is the equal if not the more important than is Yom Ki-pur.
The quote re: miracles was related to the general concept of the ideal Jewish leader who acts without waiting for the heavens to help out but with conviction and faith in the rightness of his actions. I used this example in contrast to anti Zionist Haredim who reject non observant Jewish leadership and are waiting for for a miraculous Mochiach to appear and a Temple descending from heaven. Both concepts are not based on Tanach and I believe are Pagan concepts. We should always strive to do our part and let Hashem do his.
I did click your links and am familiar with them. It does not matter they are irrelevant. I cannot think of a single Chazal,who would agree with your positions, certainly not the Ramban, Ramban or R Akiva to name a few. No Jew even from the far left in Israel objects to some few exceptional geniuses being deferred from the military just like those exceptional Jews in other pursuits but everybody understands that the sheer numbers reflect a willful policy of mishtamtute is based more on fear of secular contamination and the rabbanim losing control and power.
Israel could add from a full draft of haredim an additional division plus and even if Israel were the most powerful military in the world it would not matter, if nothing else additional manpower might allow the reduction from 3 years mandatory national service to two or even 1 year.
You will never convince the parents who give their kids over the the IDF and especially those in combat units whose lives are at risk that the majority of the mishtamtim are sitting or not in Yeshivot to keep themselves out of the army. I feel the same way about the secular lefts mishtamtim. This is burden that must be shared, Besides the unfairness it has the potential of destroying whats left of the basis of our societal social harmony and unity. It could eventually destroy the IDF and place us all in danger.
See My comment on Milchemet Mitzvah that I will post shortly.
Since i saw your videos clips you have to see mine and comment. The Yoke of Heaven
It frustrates me that I take the time to actually respond to what you write, but you do not grant me the same dignity.
So that’s how it goes, you can’t figure out a good answer so just say ba blat?
Well looks like it works.
What is that supposed to mean?? And how is it relevant to the discussion?
If so, maybe you could enlighten me? Don’t you care about your fellow Jews? Maybe you could point me in the right direction.
If you somehow understood that from anything you I wrote you completely misunderstood me. I now wonder if you actually take the time and effort to process the things I write in your brain.
And I quote:
I will explain my statement. If the IDF is the 10th strongest army in the world and definitely the strongest in the region, all this without the Hareidim, then the need for them is obviously minuscule. And if learning Torah was as important to you as it is to God, you would leave them be.
Do you actually take the time to click the links that I provide? To me it seems like you skim a few paragraphs then go to some remotely relevant article copy/paste and add some crude and biting sentences.
I don’t know where you acquired your experience, but it obviously does not reflect reality.
If you are as confident as you’re trying to display, why don’t you actually address the things that I state.
The only way to have a proper discussion is when both parties consider what the other has to say and relate there opinion regarding the issues discussed.
What matters that Herzl was not a pious Jew? King Cyrus was called moshiach Yiftach was the Godol of his time yet he was a Bandit and hardly a pious Jew. (Judges 11)
Herzl did what no religious Jew had succeeded in doing, he translated a Jewish dream into actionable deeds that no sage had done before him; his dream and tenacity eventually led to the creation of Israel. Rav Kook considered him and the secular socialist pioneers G-d’s servants.
The Jews of Europe were warned to flee, to get out of Europe while they could and the window to Palestine was still open. Your haredi rabbis told their flocks to stay put that it will all pass in time. Most of them died with their flocks, Who warned them? Jabotinsky and even Trotsky. So much for the rabbis of the haredim. Were they then complicit? Is their advice wiser today than it was then?
Ba-blat
Ha Haredim have no monopoly on spirituality in Judaism.
You arguments are old, tired and mostly not based on Tanach.
There is a third threat and that is erroneous interpretation, out of context application and revisionist understanding of both history and Tanach. My experience is that most Haredim do not learn Tanach.
Purim: Yes The Jews were threatened with extermination and if there are no Jews there would be no Judaism, ergo, no spirituality as well.
“The sages of the Talmud expressly provided that one cannot and should not rely on a miracle. We are told in the Book Of Esther that it was not enough to have the anti-Jewish decree revoked. Mordechai also realized that it was necessary to pray and fast — and pray and fast he did. He saw that it was necessary to plead with the king, and so he sent a certain lady to plead with him. Ultimately, he also asked the king’s permission to destroy and kill all of Haman’s followers, and if the Book of Esther says that he killed seventy-five thousand men that day it means that Haman has a whole party behind him a kind of Persian SS.
On them Mordechai took his revenge.
This is a good thing to keep in mind. For, of course, there were people in the ghettoes and in the forests who fought back and took their vengeance. But they came too late. Most of the Jews of Europe were exterminated. This is a good thing to remember — lest once again we be too late. What Mordechai did in Shushan was to set up a Jewish Defense — and Revenge — League. The Book of Esther, which was compiled in Persia, says that he did so with King Ahasuerus’ consent. But who can tell. Queen Esther certainly could not tell the whole truth, how Mordechai had set up this organization long before he got official permission for it, so that it was ready when he needed it. Certainly no democratic regime can suffer in it midst an illegal organization for armed defense. On the other hand — one cannot always rely on the “establishment” and on the police. Sometimes they come too late. Nor can one always rely on the democracy of a city like Shushan. Therefore, a people that has a leader like Mordechai, a leader who can follow the triple course of faith and prayer, of political action and active defense may call itself truly blessed”
I didn’t see even one real Hareidi soldier in any of the clips provided.
It must be stated that Amsalem’s opinions are not shared by the Hareidi rabbis, and that he was kicked out of Shas for the the things he said which are against Jewish perspective.
Haim Amsalem
“He started with distorting Halacha on matters of conversions conducted by our rabbinical courts… and recently attacked married yeshiva students at length… and caused a huge desecration.”
That being said I would like to rebuke the some of the things that he mentioned.
First thing:
“Who would we expect to rise up against this strong and vicious army which had spread its terror to the suburbs of Jerusalem, as well? Based on our modern world we would have to imagine the following scenario: The more religious Jews would focus on Torah study and prayer out of a belief that this, and only this, would lead God to bring about a salvation, while those who were not interested in Torah study or perhaps less religiously committed, would organize themselves and fight the war. We can certainly imagine the religious leadership saying, “The soldiers should go out and fight and we will support them and even guarantee their victory through our spiritual pursuits.” The Kohanim, religious priests who are not permitted to become impure through contact with a dead body, would certainly proclaim, “We cannot go to war because of the Torah prohibitions against our becoming spiritually contaminated.”
This is incorrect. And there is information is missing. There are two types of threats. Spiritual and physical. There are two holidays that were created by our Sages. Hanukah and Purim. They are both opposites. Purim happened first during the 70 year exile of Babylon, where the Jews came under threat of physical annihalation. Hanukah occurred after that during the Second Temple, where the Jews came under the threat of spiritual annihalation. The threat of Haman did not include anything connected to religion, similiar to the Holocaust, it was simple genocide, religious and secular alike. No one was hindered from fulfilling any of the commandments. Hanukah was the exact opposite. They were not threatened physically at all, on the contrary, if they were to deny their faith and denounce their religion, they we be recieved with great honor and riches, regardless of their Jewish roots. Only if they continued to fullfil the torah were they murdered and tortured. The way that the physical threat was countered was by a spiritual struggle. The way that the spiritual threat was repelled was by physical struggle. (Understanding exactly why it works like this is not the issue now, for explanations contact me.)
Today, no one hinders us from fulfilling our commandments. This means that there is no spiritual decree against us, only a physical one, which means that the struggle must be spiritual.
Obviously, the presence of a military force is neccessary, no Hareidi denies that. People who think that they do, are uninformed or ignorant of the truth.
In light of the fact that we have a sufficingly efficient military force, we must concentrate on the spiritual struggle which includes yeshiva learning, but not limited to that. The general public must also “pull their weight” and start fulfilling basic commandments like sabbath, eating kosher, modesty and so forth.
Another simple difference is that if you are the only one capable of fighting and you are a Kohen, you are still obligated to fight. Only if there are others capable of fighting and you are not needed in the battle would you then be exempt. According to Judaism, the role of spiritual contribution is not less important than physical contribution, which is a very important point.
Anyone who happened to read the story of the Maccabees in real scripture would recall a lot of horrible things that the Greeks decreed on the Jews. For example, for three years they were not allowed to have doors in their houses, meaning all doors were removed and with that all privacy. Obviously, learning Torah was strictly forbidden. The most famous decree, in my opinion, is where any woman that was to be married had to be taken first to the local governer to be “tested” on her wedding night before being with her husband.
After all these cruel and evil decrees the Maccabees said enough, and decided to sacrifice themselves for the sanctity of God’s name.
Today, the Hareidim are not desperately needed. We have one every war since returning to hour land. Our enemies losses are exponential. And all this without the Hareidim in the IDF.
Maybe, we have acheived all this because of the fact that the Hareidim were as they were.
I think so. In fact, this isn’t my opinion, it’s the Talmud’s. That’s right.
I quite confident that no one will actually verify this, but it’s worth it for me even if one Jew will check this out. In the tractate of “Sanhedrin” page 99 side 2, last chapter. The Mishna states that all Jews have part in the world to come (heaven), even those who were sentenced to death by Beit Din for grave sins (like murder or adultery), but that there are certain types of people who do not have part in the world to come. One of types is something called and “Apikorus” meaning heretic or skeptic, someone who denies or disbelieves part of the Torah. The Talmud asks for an example of an “Apikorus”. The Talmud then answers as follows: Such as he who says “What do Torah Scholars benefit us, for themselves they read, for themselves they study.” Read what Rashi says about how the world “stands” for the pious and learned as the Torah states “If not for my covenant day and night Heaven and Earth I would not have created.” Basically, the Torah scholars are the main reason for any type of success. Not military, political or econimic bodies. Sorry to dissappoint.
Second thing: “But, that is not what actually occurred. A family of religious priests left their world of Torah study and sacrificial offerings to fight the Syrian-Greek soldiers. Matityahu called out “Whoever is for God let him come to me!” and, together with his five sons he managed to rally an army of 6,000 people who conducted successful guerilla warfare against a mighty army.”
I don’t think that they left their world of study, no one studies 24/7, you must eat, sleep, pray, shower, take care of you family and so forth. While doing all these things one does not have to leave the “world of Torah study”. Why should battle be any different? In my opinion, they merely dedicated the majority of their time to battle, but obviously they did not “leave the world of Torah study”. Obviously, when they had the opportunity they would study Torah. “Leaving the world of torah study” has a negative connotation and that is exactly what Mr. Amsalem promotes which is specifically against Jewish ideology which requires every male Jew to “be in the world of Torah study”. Even when they were in battle they were still in the “world of torah study”.
With regards to “6,000 people who conducted successful guerilla warfare against a mighty army.”
There was nothing successful about the way the guerilla warfare was conducted. For the Maccabees, it was simply a suicide mission and they were willing to die fighting to sanctify God’s name. In the end, God wanted them to overcome the Greeks. Just like Abraham was willing to scrifice Isaac and in the end God said that he wanted Isaac to live, but it was considered a sacrifice anyways. Jewish scripture plainly states that they were few against many, weak against strong and so forth, in fact, the miracle was so great that the miracle of the oil lasting eight days in stead of one is not even mentioned in the prayer of “Al Hanissim”.
The fact that they scarificed themselves for the sake of God’s name is what earned them the merit to be granted a miracle. My point is that Mr. Amsalem makes it look like they were a bunch of Partisans that devised a good plan to battle the Nazis, they were not. They had absolutely no chance of surviving, let alone winning, which is wrongly compared to today’s situation.
“A religious leader calling, “Whoever is for God follow me to war?” What about studying Torah? What about the prohibition of becoming impure? Shouldn’t Matityahu have called out, “Whoever is for God come to the yeshiva to study?” If a Matityahu were to arise today and call followers of God to war would he not be branded a “heretic,” a “breacher of the fences of holiness,” and, worst of all, God forbid, a “Zionist?”
Yes he would. I will explain. Matityahu and his sons waited for years before they acted. The Jews of that time period were mainly religious and and mostly wanted to fullfill all the commandments. The people were waiting for the Greeks to get bored and move on. It took matityahu and his sons some time to understand that God wanted them to act, which of course is exactly what they did and are praised for to this very day.
Today, the nation as a whole, and in Israel itself is largley secular, no one is stopping them from keeping their traditions besides themselves.
Moreover, today, the IDF doesn’t need yeshiva students to hold M-16s or fly F-16s, they have more than enough infantry, medics, pilots, tanks, intelligence and so forth. More soldiers would never hurt, but they ARE NOT DESPERATLEY NEEDED. This is not 1948 or 1967.
Check out globafirepower.com to see that the IDF is the 10th strongest army in the world.
All that without the Hareidim. I would be satisfied with that since we superior to every country in the region combined.
So far Mr. Amsalem’s comparison of the miracle of Hanukah to today is inaccurate. Unforturnately, I was not even mildy amused.
“Thank God we have returned to our homeland after 2,000 years of exile. We are in a constant state of battle against our enemies. We, as Haredim, cannot let the burden of fighting fall to our secular and religious Zionist brothers. Moses made this clear when he proclaimed, “Will your brothers go to war and you will sit here?” We have an absolute mitzvah to join in the fight. As the Maccabees demonstrated, while Torah study is of high-level importance in our tradition, saving lives supersedes most other commandments.”
This is very simple. There is as much a mitzvah in joining the IDF as there is in becoming a doctor. If no one becomes a doctor who will heal us when we are sick?? Not true. There will always be doctors and lawyers (especially when Jews are involved) and teachers and garbage men and so on. And with regards to saving lives superceding all other commanments, that in itself is correct, but joining the IDF does not necessarily mean saving a life, it is a partial contribution to a general war effort, important as that may be. But to refer to it as “saving lives” and therefore supercedes all other commanments is like saying that if someone will die on shabbat if not taken to a hospital, that everyone that can get into the car should get inside and help drive, which is ridiculous. Only one person is needed to drive the sick person to the hospital and therefore save him, anyone who is not required to complete the task is considered desecrating shabbat.
And for those who would like to compare the IDF to the Jewish Army of ancient times, there are too many differences for me to write in this reply (email me if you are curious), but I will say this: When the army is run by people whom I can compare to Moses or Rabbi Akiva and so forth (i.e. Torah Scholars, even in this generation), I will be the FIRST to join. You know why because the principles of the army would be exactly the principles of Judaism. Until then I’ll be studying Torah try to compensate for all of the Jewish men who don’t even wear a kippah or women who don’t even wear a skirt.
“While a few select and elite scholars must always be designated to focus exclusively on Torah study, the rest of the nation, including Hareidim, must go to fight.”
So who decides who those mysterious “selct few” are? Mr. Amsalem? I hope not… Every Jewish man has the right to learn Torah as much as he wants so long that others do not suffer from it (i.e. wife, children…) You can’t just take that away, that is one of the pillars of Judaism.
This video is much more informative than these few lines of text. For those of you who do not yet understand hebrew, sorry 🙁
Learning Torah vs IDF
And again, as mentioned above, the IDF is not in dire need of recruits so that they should go after all the Hareidim.
“Many may question my suggestion that all Israelis serve based on religious grounds. After all, doesn’t the army present religious challenges for the soldiers?”
Ok, now the fun starts. 🙂
“The answer to this question is very straightforward. It must first be stated that IDF officially observes Jewish law from its creation and this policy is part of its Supreme Command Code. Aside from this, the IDF has made adjustments in recent years which transformed serving into a completely appropriate experience for soldiers of all religious backgrounds.”
This is complete misrepresentation. I don’t know if Mr. Amsalem knows, but that’s not what it’s like for an orthodox Jew in the IDF. I speak from personal experience, so this is first-hand information. True as it may be, the IDF officially observes Jewish law, but which laws it decides to observe and which laws it doesn’t is an entirely different story. No soldier is forced to desecrate sabbath unless it is a true combat situation and public desecration of sabbath is forbidden (how much it is enforced is another story). All the army’s food is kosher at least at the lowest level of kosher. Religious men are allowed to grow a beard. There are many other examples, but none come to mind right now. Either way the examples irrelevant.
What the army does not keep is proper seperation between men and women, in the cafeteria and in different activities, there is no halachic permission anywhere to have a large group of men and women in any room without seperation. Furthermore, there is no NEED for the army to be mixed, statistics show that when segregated, males and females perform better academically. There is no military law that states that a Jewish soldier has the right to be seperated from women. This is an extremely important issue which is completely ignored by the IDF. If they really cared about Jewish law so much, why not seperate men and women from the beginning?? The answer lies in the link provided below regarding zionism.
In truth, the army doesn’t really uphold Jewish tradition enough for a Hareidi Jew to serve under decent conditions. They just let go of a few tidbits so that the general public doesn’t have anything to complain about. Trust me, if it was that good in the army tons of Hareidim would join, the salary is 5000 shequels per month if you are married with a child, which is very nice if your wife has a job as well. The reason that Hareidim don’t join is because the army is in direct conflict with their most cherished principles.
Another example. According to Jewish Law, women are strictly forbidden to wear pants, as it is considered completely immodest. This does not bother the army at all, they manufacture a skirt for female soldiers (less than 1% actually wear them) so that no one should complain. Again, obviously, the military skirt complies more with modern fashion than the Halachic obligation of modesty. Halacha specifically requires the skirt to be long enough to cover the knees when seated. In addition to that, the skirt must not be loose enough as to allow walking without the shape of her legs being noticable for obvious reasons. This is what a modern IDF military skirt looks like:
IDF Skirt
This obviously is not considered modest according to Halacha. I would assume, that before fashioning the skirt they did not ask the Military Rabbinate. (Why not?)
Another simple issue is that of carrying weapons. According to halacha, women are not allowed to carry weapons, as it is considered “a garment of a man”, just like a man is not allowed to wear a dress as it is considered ” a garment of a woman”. Obviously, any person can carry weapons for their own self defense, in time of need, but for reasons other than real conditions of self defense it is forbidden. Which also makes combat for women against halacha. Again something the army ignores, although this I can understand, secular women choose to be combat soldiers, the army doesn’t want to discourage a good fighter.
Anyways, on a general scale the army isn’t really that religious, in fact because of the aformentioned mixture between genders, the general age group of 18-25, and very anti-religious world we live in, the army is a terrible place for a religious Jew who upholds Halacha.
“Nachal Hareidi is a unit made up of religious soldiers with Torah classes and prayer services offered daily and many religious sensitivities are taken into account including the absence of women on the base. The Shachar program is offered to Hareidi men who have already learned Torah for four or more years after the age of 18. This program offers 26 different vocational training tracks including computer programming, electrical engineering, technical writing, and even truck driving. There are no women in their areas of the base, no female commanders, and they keep to the highest standard of kashrut. These soldiers are off for Shabbat, Friday, and all holidays.”
Like I said before, misrepresentation. Officially, you are promised before drafting many things, only to discover that it’s not the way you imagined.You get strictly kosher food, true, but only if you demand it, sometimes you may need to do a little yelling and sometimes you could get lucky and not need to.
As far as “no women in their areas of the base” goes, I scoff at that. Maybe in their immediate radius of about 10 metres, but after that it’s just a plain mixed army base, you get female soldiers everywhere, you have to deal with them very often, not like Mr. Amsalem describes it. I have been to at least 4 different IDF bases and I can tell you, they are all the same, I don’t know about Nahal Hareidi, but I can tell you about Shachar, which I am a part of. The experience is just like regular army. How do I know? That’s easy, because most of the people I serve with on a day to day basis are part of regular military service. I have two other members of Shachar that work in the same office with me. I can tell you that they are not observant Jews who keep halacha like the rest of the hareidi public (They don’t even pray the Shacharit morning service on a regular basis). Another one from a different section hangs out with secular girls all day, that’s because most of the time the army doesn’t have any work for him. The only place where you can be truly seperate from women in the entire base is the synagogue, which I’ve never seen women enter anyways.
Free on holidays, sure, but only the first and last days of Passover and Succot. That means Chol HaMoed is mandatory and if you want to celebrate the entire holiday, then you’ll have to take it off your 15 days per year of vacation.
“So, the claim that any group cannot share in the national burden of army service because of religious concerns is a non-issue in our times. It should also be mentioned that the more Hareidim join the IDF, the more the IDF will adapt even further to meet the specific needs of that community.”
According to the things that I wrote above this statement is untrue.
Although, I would like you to pay attention to the last sentence and I quote, “It should also be mentioned that the more Hareidim join the IDF, the more the IDF will adapt even further to meet the specific needs of that community.” According to everything Mr. Amsalem wrote above, there is a big mitzvah in joining the army and the army is 100% kosher because it caters to all the Hareidim’s specific needs. So what’s left that’s in need of change…? Deep down Mr. Amsalem knows that the IDF is no place for a religious person, let alone Hareidi, but he hopes that this will change in time.
This very informative video will explain a lot about the IDF and generally Zionism and the state of Israel. When you use the term “zionism” please understand what you are referring to.
Herzl and Zionism
If there are any questions I would be happy to answer them. Just email me eitan@prezes.info
Lack of faith by the spies who were all the tribal leaders lead to the demoralization of almost all the Hebrews, except Calev and Joshua. Read the acct in Shy Guys links.
‘Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,’ says the Lord of Hosts. Zechariah 4:6
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Numbers chapter 13 and chapter 14
I give up. You tell us. You seem to know.
Hi 82. Can you please explain your comment that spies made the proto-Jews have to remain in the desert for forty years? I am not well educated in the Bible, but I thought the people had to remain in the desert until the last one who remembered Egypt died. These people were culturally Egyptians, and I thought Moses wanted a clean slate for the promised land.
Obama and the United States have got your back. I guess the Muslims don’t realize that America is packed with Jews and Christians who would never allow Muslims to take over our Holy Land again.
Does G_d need intermediaries, can he not reach into the heart, soul and brain of every man? How much of “G_d’s Law” is an invention of men involved in the sin of vanity?
I believe every Jewish kid in the diaspora should give at least 2 years serving in the IDF.
That would be a game changer not only for Israel for for diaspora Jews.
Best of the IDF Brigade of Pure Holy Torah
Nahal Haredi
kfir brigade’s “beret march”
Thank you Rabbi Haim Amsalem for writing the truth. Chazak!!!
The Mitzvah of Military Service
We learn this important lesson in Exodus 17: 11, when the war against Amalek cannot succeed without Moshe’s blessing:
And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed; and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.
However, the Torah also makes clear that serving to protect and defend the people of Israel is equated with loyalty to G-d. For example, when the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half of Menashe wanted to settle east of the Jordan river, Moshe rebukes them because he thinks they are trying to avoid military service:
Moshe answered the descendants of Gad and Reuven saying: shall your brothers go to war while you remain here? (Numbers 32:6).
(See clip of Haredi/religious soldiers from around the world)
He goes on to equate the possible avoidance of military service with turning against G-d. He accuses them of being no better than the spies who forced the people to wander for 40 years in the desert:
Now behold you have risen up in the place of your fathers, a brood of transgressors, to bring even more of God’s wrath upon Israel. If you turn away from Him, He will leave us in the wilderness and you will have destroyed this whole people (Numbers 32: 15)
Moshe is not satisfied until he extracts a promise from the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half of Menashe that they will serve in war against Israel’s enemies.