Haaretz: Annexation would be the ruination of Israel

By Ted Belman

Haaretz just published, Getting in a terrible state, by Nehemia Shtrasler where he argues against annexation because we would end up with a bi-national state with a 60% majority leaving out Gaza. He acknowledges that the proponents of annexation intend to give citizenship because as MK Reuven Rivlin put it: “Better that the Palestinians be citizens of the state than divide the land.”

He limits his argument to one small fact as he puts it, and the economic consequences,

    “The annexation of 2.5 million Palestinians to the State of Israel means a bi-national state with a small, temporary Jewish majority – 60 percent Jews (6.3 million )and 40 percent Arabs (4.2 million ), and that is without Gaza. Thus, the end of the Zionist dream.”

The only problem is , it is not a fact but a lie. There are only 1.5 million Arabs in J&S and we would have a 67% majority with momentum favouring the Jews.

Secondly Israel won’t agree to a binational state which I take to mean two equal nations. She will annex the land based on the Jewish Nation Basic Law which gives precedent to the Jewish nature of the state.

He argues;

    Annexation of the territories means unification between a country whose annual per-capita GDP is $30,000 and the Palestinian Authority, where the GDP is one-tenth of that – $3,000 per person. Accordingly, the poverty rate in the new country will rise by about 35 percent! That would mean moving from the status of a developed country to a third-world country, alongside Sudan and Eritrea.
    This new situation will also require a revolutionary new social policy. It will necessitate a dramatic expansion of the National Insurance budget to help the new weak people (the Palestinians). We will spend huge amounts of money sharing our child and old-age allowances, our unemployment benefits, our welfare, and so on.
    Funding for rehabilitation of Palestinians injured in battle and the families of “martyrs” will have to be expanded; they will be entitled to allowances in keeping with the accepted practice in Israel. After all, they will be citizens with equal rights. Government payments to balance the budgets of Palestinian cities and towns will also be required, as these will no doubt be classified in the lowest socioeconomic cluster. After all, we would not leave them with sewage running in the streets, an irregular water supply and bumpy roads.
    It is also inconceivable that we would withhold health-care benefits, and so the health budget will have to double. There is also no argument that we would have to allocate many billions to upgrade the education system in the territories, to give every Palestinian child what every Israeli child gets.
    Social activist Daphni Leef, who would embark again on a protest for “affordable housing,” will know that the first neighborhoods will be built in the Hebron Hills, where people are still living in caves and tin shacks – and in a democracy we are obligated first of all to help the weakest.
    To fund all of these huge additions, income tax, VAT, corporation tax and capital-gains taxes will have to be hiked by dozens of percentage points. That will chase away investors, lead to a wave of emigration by the middle and upper classes, to massive unemployment and decline into a deep economic crisis.

Must this be so? First of all the effects will be lessened due to the fact that we will have a 67% majority.

Annexation will give us a huge cheap labour pool enabling us to lower our costs of production. The Arabs will receive much higher wages than they do now and therefore will present a growing market for goods produced in Israel. There GDP will expand dramatically.

Citizenship would only be available to those who qualify. We would require them to speak Hebrew and sign a loyalty oath etc. Anyone with any connection to Fatah or Hamas would be ineligible and so on.

We would be saved the cost of transfering 150,000 Jews out of the territories which has been estimated at $150 billion. Gush Katif cost $10 billion. This would cause great inflation which would be avoided with annexation.

Finally we get to own outright all state lands in Area C which has to be worth far in excess of $200 billion.

And if we only annex Area C, we would get most of the land without most of the Arabs.

July 16, 2013 | 107 Comments »

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50 Comments / 107 Comments

  1. @ yamit82:

    I know you do.

    I feel for people of Israel, believe me I do.

    They have a land willed to them and it’s infested by a plague, the Arabs.

    I am not sure but could it be G-d put this obstacle in their path in order for the Jews to take charge and to show their authority over the land.

    He may want them to start at the Temple.

    Maybe I am crazy but it would not make sense to lead His people back to the Holy Land, stand by them in defending it and leave them stuck with this plague.

    No

    This just may be the results of a secular progressive Israeli government bent on self-destruction.

  2. @ rongrand:

    Example, they do not allow Jews to pray at their Temple for fear of offending the Arabs let alone remove them.

    You are correct on all accounts Ron.
    Those that sounded indeed very promising, ended up JUST going to pray on the Temple Mount (how do you spell Moshe feiglin?)
    This reminds me of the guy that had a rapist intruder come into his house drew a line on the floor and told this schleemazel that if he as much as crosses the line (while the rapist is ‘busy’ with his wife), the rapist intruder will kill him…
    Ater a few hours, the rapist left, and the schlepper was consoling his wife who was crying and asking “how could you just SIT there and not DO something?!?!?”
    To which our poor deluded husband replied indignantly : “why, I want you to know that while the guy was not looking….. I actually CROSSED THE LINE!!!
    Several times!”

    As sick as this sounds, I am afraid it is just as effectual as the milquetoast actions and cries of indignation of those that oppose the government sellout
    ‘Nuff said

  3. @ yamit82:

    Uncle, I know nobody is interested in my opinion or what I have to say but, I’ll say it anyway.

    annex Area C, annex B whatever.

    Think for a moment, what if the situation were reversed and the Holy Land belonged to the Arabs.

    Do you think they would be having this discussion.

    Hell no.

    They would be sending the Jews packing.

    Unfortunately the Jews are not heartless.

    Example, they do not allow Jews to pray at their Temple for fear of offending the Arabs let alone remove them.

    The Arabs are safe

  4. CuriousAmerican Said:

    You are advocating ethnic cleansing

    American! You can call it whatever the hell you like. It is IRRELEVANT . what IS relevant, is that by hook or by crook, They must go!
    Yamit even proposed a humane alternative
    Seems like we are doomed to have you appear on various threads with your one tune song…
    Oh well…
    Honeybee, it’s your turn. 🙂

  5. @ yamit82:

    The problem is less what the world would say or do but the stupid Jews

    It just does not get any more bull’s eye, than that .

  6. dove Said:

    It is time to stand up and be counted – I am referring to us in the diaspora – if we die, we die as a JEW

    Between Giving the Torah and Receiving It
    by Dr. Israel Eldad

    “one does not decide on ideas. Ideas are given by revelation and they exist. You decide and fight for their acceptance, to spread them or allow them to penetrate. Therefore Mt. Sinai was held over the heads of the nation during the giving of the Torah [in the legend in which Israel was offered a choice between the Torah or being buried under the mountain], because the Torah is not the result of evolution, during which all the right conditions were quietly and calmly prepared till the bodies were ready and eagerly awaiting it. It is always a revolution, meaning something coming in opposition to what the nation is ready for and consciously desires.

    Now, from the world of the Torah in general to one part of it: sovereignty.
    In the past few generations, only a few extraordinary prophets taught sovereignty, gave the Torah of modern Hebrew sovereignty.

    But great is the distance from this new revelation to its acceptance. And apparently it, too, must pass through two stages: first the stage of being forced upon the people from above, and only afterwards, the stage of learning it from below, from inside.

    And if you want to know where we stand today on our journey through the desert, let it be told: we are standing before the golden calf.”

  7. dove Said:

    • The Golden Calf in 1312 BC

    No. That was the 17th of Tamuz.

    CuriousAmerican Said:

    You are advocating ethnic cleansing

    If it was good enough for Europe, then it’s good enough for me!

  8. Tisha B’Av – a day of mourning, a day of hope.
    On Tisha B’Av a series of major Jewish calamities took place over many centuries.
    A bit of history……….
    • The Golden Calf in 1312 BC
    • The failure of the “Ten Spies”
    • The destruction of the First Temple in 586 BC
    • The destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD
    • The crashing of the Bar Kokhba Rebellion in 135 AD
    • The pogroms of the First Crusade in 1096
    • The expulsion of the Jews from Britain in 1290
    • The expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492
    • The eruption of WWI in 1914
    • The end of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in May 1943
    It is time to stand up and be counted – I am referring to us in the diaspora – if we die, we die as a JEW

  9. CuriousAmerican Said:

    You are advocating ethnic cleansing like Stalin cleansed the Finns or the Nazis cleansed the Poles.

    What wonderful roles models you choose.

    I was listing the events to prove a principle . After the War every country threw out their German and foreign citizens. When the USSR collapsed ethnic Russians residing in the eastern Block like Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania either threw out their Russian ethnic citizens or removed citizenship from them and any benefits of citizenship from the State.

    I didn’t list African examples. Balkan examples. Cyprus/ Greek Turk, division of the Island along ethnic lines enforced by Turkey’s invasion.

    East Timor conflict and the still unresolved problem of Kashmir.

    I didn’t mention that Jews being forced to leave Muslim countries exceeded the numbers of Arabs who fled Israel and that the transfer of Arabs from the Med to the Jordan is only the completion of a transfer of populations begun by the Arabs themselves. It’s not like they have nowhere to go. All have family and relatives in Jordan and Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon where most migrated into Israel from and I can prove it was so. The majority of your so-called palis can not prove for good reason family and clan residence in Palestine/Israel for longer than 120 years and many for a lot less than 120 years.

    The Pali maggots stole our land squatted on Land not theirs then claimed victim-hood when threatened removal by the legal owners?

    Interesting concepts of history, Law and Justice you yeshu lovers have. If you are real bible believing christian I wonder what you believe G-d has to say on the matter? Do you have any idea? Your views are superior to G-d’s? Thought so. If it hurts the Jews then for you Jew hating christians it’s KOSHER!!!!

  10. honeybee Said:

    You neglected my beloved Cheroke

    The Trail of Tears was much too early for my attempt at making a point about transfer. I used only the major and latest examples and there are many more I didn’t list which came later than WW2.

    No I just wanted to show that ethnic cleansing and population exchanges between populations is a normative and the only workable solution to national,ethnic and religious hate and conflicts short of exterminating one side or the other.

    The problem is less what the world would say or do but the stupid Jews. Transfer of all the Arabs from the Med to the Jordan is the only rational solution to a problem that can be resolved in one of two ways. Transfer or extermination. Transfer is more humane.

  11. Haaretz has a point. I don’t want Israel to be burdened with 2 million more Arabs, making them citizens no less. Sure Jews would still be the majority, but a much smaller majority. I share Martin Sherman’s view of this. The realistic thing to do would be to get the Arabs to move out of the territories, but not even the right in Israel is willing to consider this option.

  12. @yamit82

    You are advocating ethnic cleansing like Stalin cleansed the Finns or the Nazis cleansed the Poles.

    What wonderful roles models you choose.

  13. CuriousAmerican Said:

    @

    100k is a drop in the bucket and we get more than that number in family reunions of Israeli Arabs marrying spouses in the territories and bringing them into Israel. There are upwards of a half million Illegal Palis and other Arabs who have entered both the territories and Israel illegally. and can't seem to be stopped without a major effort and expenditure by Israel.

    $10 billion would reduce our budget deficit, help the Jewish poor, provide low cost housing for young couples and a myriad of other necessary social remedials. To pay your scum Arabs to go to Chile where you stand to clean up not just in stealing potential spiritual souls to your pagan cult , you stand to make a fortune $$$$$ in stealing their money in different settlement scams as well. So your aims are three fold"

    Screw the Jews
    Steal souls for yeshu
    Christian hateful Avarice:
    Make big bucks from Jewish funded Arab immigrants to a country where hey would be for you crooks, lambs to the slaughter and ripe for fleecing.

    Your motives are too transparent to be taken seriously and have so many holes I could drive Tanks through each of them.

  14. Modern Historical Precedents for Population exchanges and Transfer:

    World War II related deportations, expulsions and similar displacements

    Some of the belligerents expelled or ethnically cleansed people perceived as being associated with enemy belligerents. Eastern Europe was a major location of these displacements, although Japanese were expelled from some locations during and after the war by Allied countries. The Holocaust also involved deportations and expulsions.
    Origin of German colonizers settled in annexed Polish territories in action “Heim ins Reich”

    1939 to 1945 The Expulsion of Poles by Germany. During World War II, Nazis planned to ethnically cleanse the whole Polish population according germanisation plan – Generalplan Ost. Eventually during Nazi occupation up to 1.6 to 2 million Poles were expelled, not counting millions of slave labourers deported from Poland.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1939 to 1940 Expulsions of 680 000 Poles from German occupied Wielkopolska (German -Reichsgau Wartheland). Only from the city Pozna? Germans expelled to General Government 70 000 of Poles. By 1945 half a million Volksdeutsche Germans from Soviet Union, Bessarabia, Romania and the Baltic Germans had been resettled during action “Heim ins Reich” by German organisations like Hauptamt Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle and “Resettlement departament” of RKFDV (Stabshauptamt Reichkomissar für die Festigung deutsches Volkstums) from the East Europe.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1939 to 1940 Expulsions of 121 765 Poles from German occupied Pomerania. On Polish places 130 000 Volksdeutsche was settled including 57 000 Germans from East Europe countries: Soviet Union, Bessarabia, Romania and the Baltic states. Deportation was a part of German “Lebensraum” policy ordered by German organisations like Hauptamt Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle and “Resettlement departament” of RKFDV.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1939 to 1940 The first evacuation of Finnish Karelia was the resettlement of the population of Finnish Karelia and other territories ceded by Finland to the Soviet Union after and during the Winter War into the remaining parts of Finland. Some of the territories were evacuated during the war or before it, as part of the course of the war. Most of the territory was evacuated after the Soviet Union gained it as a part of the Moscow peace treaty. In total,410,000 people were transferred.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1940 to 1941 The Soviets deported hundreds of thousands of Polish citizens, most in four mass waves. The accepted figure was over 1.5 million. The most conservative figuresuse recently found NKVD documents showing 309,000 to 381,220. The Soviets didn’t recognize ethnic minorities as Polish citizens, some of the figures are based on those given an amnesty rather than deported and not everyone was eligible for the amnesty therefore the new figures are considered too low. The original figures were: February, 1940 over 220,000; April around 315,000; June–July between 240,000 to 400,000; June, 1941, 200,000 to 300,000.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1940 to 1941 Expulsions of 17 000 Polish and Jewish residents from the western districts of city O?wi?cim from places located directly adjacent to Auschwitz Concentration Camp, and also from the villages of Broszkowice, Babice, Brzezinka, Rajsko, P?awy, Harm??e, Bór, and Budy. The Expulsion of Polish civilians was a step towards establishing the Camp Interest Zone, which was set up in order to isolate the camp from the outside world and to carry out business activity to meet the needs of the SS. German and Volksdeutsche settlers move in. This was one of the numerous forced migrations associated with the Holocaust.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1940 to 1941 The deportation of Volga Germans by Soviet Union to Kazakhstan, Altai Krai, Siberia, and other remote areas.
    1941 to 1944 During the Finnish occupation of East Karelia during World War II the Russian-speaking population of the city of Petrozavodsk was held in a concentration camp.
    1941 to 1944 Expulsion of Poles from Zamo?? region was performed in November 1941, and continued by June/July 1943 which was code named Wehrwolf Action I and II to make room for German (and to a lesser extent, Ukrainian) settlers as part of Nazi plans for establishment of German colonies in the conquered territories. Around 110,000 people from 297 villages were expelled. Around 30,000 victims were children who, if racially “clean” (i.e. had physical characteristics deemed “Germanic”) were planned for germanisation in German families in the Third Reich. Most of the people expelled were sent as slave labour in Germany or to concentration camps.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1941 to 1944 in Kosovo & Metohija, some 10,000 Serbs lost their lives, and about 80,000 to 100,000 or more were ethnically cleansed.
    1941 to 1945 More than 250,000 Serbs were expelled from Croatia and Bosnia by the extreme nationalist Ustashe regime during the Serbian Genocide.
    1941 to 1949 During World War II, Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians were interned in camps.
    1943 to 1944 The Deportation of Crimean Tatars, Kalmyks, Chechens, Ingush, Balkars, Karachays, and Meskhetian Turks by Soviet Union to Central Asia and Siberia.
    1943 to 1944 The ethnic cleansing and massacres of Poles in Volhynia by nationalist UPA with the bulk of victims reported in summer and autumn 1944.
    1943 to 1960 The Istrian-Dalmatian Exodus involved the diaspora of 350,000, mostly ethnic Italians together with anti-communist Slovene and Croat people, from Istria, Fiume and Dalmatian lands (mainly from the city of Zara), after the collapse of Italian fascist regime.
    1944 The displacement of the majority ethnic Estonian population from the Estonian city of Narva by Soviet occupation authorities.
    1944 The second Evacuation of Finnish Karelia. During the Continuation War, some 280,000 Finns had returned to areas ceded in 1940 to the Soviet Union and subsequently re-conquered by Finland in 1941. During summer and autumn 1944, Finland re-ceded these areas back to the Soviet Union, and re-evacuated the Finnish population.
    1944 The evacuation of almost total civilian population of Finnish Lapland, as a joint Finnish-German effort, before Finnish and German troops commenced hostilities in Lapland War. The evacuees, numbering 168,000 were able to return home within a year.
    1944 to 1945 The ethnic cleansing of Hungarians, or the massacres in Ba?ka by Titoist partisans during the winter of 1944-45, about 40.000 massacred. Afterwards, between 45-48, internment camps were set which led directly to the death of 70.000 more, of famine, frost, plagues, tortures and executions.
    1944 to 1945 The ethnic cleansing of Cham Albanians from Thesprotia Prefecture by Greeks which took place, circa 16,000-20,000 fled to Albania, and 200-300 were killed.
    1944 to 1947 & 1951 The mass deportation of Ukrainian speaking ethnic minorities from the territory of Poland after World War II, culminating in 1947 with the start of Operation Vistula.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    1944 to 1947 & 1951 1.5 million Poles were deported from the eastern territories annexed by the Soviet Union into the western territories, which Soviets transferred from Germany to Poland. By 1950, 1.6 million Poles from the eastern territories annexed by the Soviet Union had been settled in what the government called the Regained Territories.
    1944 to 1948 Expulsion of Germans after World War II. Between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history. Estimated number of those who died in the process is being debated by historians and estimated between 500,000 and 3,000,000.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    In November and December 1944, more than 200,000 Danube Swabians in Yugoslavia were expelled from their homes and interned in starvation and concentration camps for the old, young and disabled. Some 30,000 workers were expelled to Russia as slave laborers for war reparations.
    During and after World War II, about 250,000/350,000 Italians left western Yugoslavia in Istrian exodus.
    After World War II in Manchuria under Soviet occupation soon become a battlefield between the Chinese communist forces and the Nationalist forces was home to hundreds of thousands of Japanese citizens. All these were now to be expelled.
    Korea, now free from Japanese rule, and Sakhalin, under Soviet military occupation, were Japanese territories before World War II and had millions of Japanese residents. All these were now to be expelled.
    Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895 and by the beginning of World War II many Japanese civilians had settled there. Between the Japanese surrender of Taiwan in 1945 and April 25 1946 the occupying Republic of China forces expelled 90% of the Japanese living in Taiwan.
    More than 30,000 Serbs were expelled from Bulgarian occupied Macedonia and south-eastern Serbia
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Aliyah Bet was the code-name for illegal immigration of Jews to the Levant in the 1930s and 1940s, while the Holocaust was occurring, and the existence of numerous displaced people, of Jewish identity, was a major reason for the birth of the state of Israel. Those migrants were helped by an underground group called Bricha. After the country was born, European Jewish migration to Israel continued, contributing to that country’s population growth. The Kielce pogrom and other antisemitic incidents were contributing factors. (This migration could be seen as an expulsion, given the conditions faced by European Jews at the time.)

  15. yamit82 Said:

    CuriousAmerican Said:

    This area below is reserved for Yamit’s insults which will surely follow

    “Honni soit qui mal y pense”

    Même avec un dictionnaire, l’imbécile va rien comprendre….
    😉

  16. @ Ted Belman:
    I am also in favor of just annexing area C.

    Areas A/B need creative solutions which will be difficult for a myriad of reasons. One the Pals at PA level will not cooperate more than likely. If this happens the emirate or city state idea by referendum could be tried. Maybe this could work. Again there many problems and just hypothetical solutions. If paying anyone to leave comes up since money is finite it should first be done in Area C and then selectively where it would be most effective.

    I would be interested in hearing more about your debate TED and your plan.

  17. @ Ted Belman:
    I am in the middle of a serious debate involving Martin Sherman, Nadia Matar of the Women in Green and Mike Wise who is the man behind the One State Plan and the New Demographic Study. I want to annex Area C, Mike wants to annex it all and give citizenship to those Arabs who qualify and Sherman who wants to pay them to leave. I see it as a phased process. First Area C and then negotiate autonomy and or compensation for Arabs in A and B.

    My view is in the middle. Offer the young compensation to leave. Sherman has already shown that about 50% would leave without much compensation.

    Then of the remaining, enfranchise who learn basic Hebrew and do some national service.

    @ Ted Belman:
    We have no idea whether the Sherman Plan will work.

    No one has tried it.

    @ Ted Belman:
    We can test it out on the Arabs in Area C.

    Why just area C? Why not A&B as well, or are you trying to reduced the annexed Arabs to 0? I understand your logic … but it won’t look good.

    Sherman has the answer! I have corresponded with him. Oddly, Sherman and I came up with almost identical numbers independent of each other.

    There is one country is South America which is positively Palestino-philic.

    Chile.

    Chile has over half of the world’s Palestinian Chrisitians.

    Stats:

    Population: 17,000,000
    Arabs: 800,000 (5%)
    Palesitnians alone 500,000 (3%)
    Muslims (total) 4,000 (0.025%) Very small. Least Muslim country in Western Hemisphere
    # of Mosques ~5 (and that may be a high estimate)

    Religion: Roman Catholic(70%), Evangelical Christian(16%), Orthodox Christian(4%), Jewish(0.1%), Muslim(0.025%)

    The Palestinian Christians are very, very rich, and have influence in Chile as powerful as AIPAC in America.

    Palestine in the South : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsNdIl5z05E
    Palestino Soccer Club: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2e648vEOeM
    AFP on Palestinians in Chile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjyhzzLCyyk

    A mere $10 Billion could probably move 100,000 Palestinians to Chile, where they would almost certainly be welcomed. It would set up a young couple of 4 (at $400,000) for decades.

    George Soros, Steven Spielberg, Mayor Bloomberg could not cough up some cash?!

    And Chile is full of Evangelicals to – as Yamit would put it – steal their souls. Yamit, it would be practice. After they convert the Muslims, it is off to Jerusalem.

    Chile is 99% Christian. 100,000 Palestinians would amount to only 1/2% of Chile’s population. Islam would not stand a chance.

    Arab immigration to Chile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Nuw-g6_0A

    There is your test.

    Chile.

    $10 Billion dollars. Maybe less with young people willing to move.

  18. CuriousAmerican Said:

    I am sure you will have some excuse to explain this inconsistency – probably even written by a sage.

    There is no reason to grant citizenship to modern day Nazis, itching to slit our throats.

    No quotes from verses or sages required.

    Who gives a damn about Crémieux! Whether he was right or wrong has nothing to do with the constant danger which Israel has foolishly put itself in these last 30 years, putting even a minimum of trust in the hands of barbaric Arab butchers.

  19. Ted Belman Said:

    I want to annex only Area C.

    I think Israel should just enforce the existing law in Area C and B, without annexing it. Just allow Jews to build in Area C, and stop all Arab building there.
    At the same time annexing area C would mean the implicit recognition of Arab ownership of area A and B.
    I got this very clear after listening to lecture by Pr. Kontorovich

  20. I am in the middle of a serious debate involving Martin Sherman, Nadia Matar of the Women in Green and Mike Wise who is the man behind the One State Plan and the New Demographic Study. I want to annex Area C, Mike wants to annex it all and give citizenship to those Arabs who qualify and Sherman who wants to pay them to leave. I see it as a phased process. First Area C and then negotiate autonomy and or compensation for Arabs in A and B. Until an agreement is reached, if ever,the rules of Oslo will apply to A and B. In my Plan we will offer part of C to create contiguity between all parts and then sum. The EU has already forced us to designate products produced beyond the greenline. So all they have left in their arsenal is to ban imports from anywhere in Israel or go to the UN with the rest of the world in order to get the UNSC to apply sanctions. This will put the US in a position where it is up to them to veto or not, the sanctions. We will deal with sanctions when they come. They may never come if the US will veto. My position is that our negotiating position on all the issues including the TSS will be much improved.
    We have no idea whether the Sherman Plan will work. We can test it out on the Arabs in Area C.
    As for negotiating autonomy, the Arabs may prefer it to living in a Jewish state.

  21. @ XLucid:

    Effectively, Israel is negating G-d’s plans for the Children of Israel. Israel is negating the sacred predictions of our prophets, already contained in the holy scripts.

    I am not a prophet and I know very little.

    As a practicing Catholic I believe the return of the Jews to Israel the Holy Land was not just by chance. Chance just doesn’t cut it.

    The Israelis are successful in defence of their nation in several wars with their crazy Arab neighbors in spite of being vastly outnumbered. You have to believe in Divine intervention.

    You don’t need to be a prophet to understand this.

    Now the neighbors don’t worry me as I do believe the IDF if unleashed and allowed to do the job can put a licking on the Arabs.

    What concerns me is the Israeli government who fails to understand and as the gentleman said “negating G-d’s plans”

    On top of that people of every religion are free to pray at their Holy Site with the exception of the Jews.

    Figure that one.

    Who side is this government on?

  22. @ XLucid:

    Israel should adopt the TSS solution: The Sudete Solution.

    🙂
    The late rabbi kahane said it very plainly: “they must go!”
    When you start with the end in mind, I.e. what is the desired result, you define it (kahane already did that) , the rest is a bunch of inane technicalities that only the american and his ilk would really pay attention to.

  23. The Arabs hate the Jews. They cannot be assimilated and they want to take over the country. Waiting until their strength grows is not a viable solution in the long term.

  24. Annexing Area C or absorbing in any way the Arabs shall not be the solution in the long run.

    Effectively, Israel is negating G-d’s plans for the Children of Israel. Israel is negating the sacred predictions of our prophets, already contained in the holy scripts.

    Israeli governments lost sight of what should be an authentic Jewish State: ie the future Kindom of Israel. Their only concern is to worry about the comfort and future of the children of amalek, the G-d’s eternal enemies.

    What about the Gathering of the Twelve Tribes of the Children of Israel? What about the construction of the Third Holy Temple?

    Whatever Israel will do to appease the wolves, the international community will always bark.

    As said in the Holy Torah: Hakol Kol Yaacov Vehayadayin Yede Essav. As long as we the voice of the teachings of the Torah shall not be heard, the hands of the enemies shall prevail.

    Therefore, Israel should adopt the TSS solution: The Sudete Solution.

    As a reminder, about 3,5 millions of Sudetes, whose loyalty and militancy were directed in favour of the nazi regime, were expelled by and from Czechoslovakia, and their property confiscated.

    Therefore, The Sudete Solution should be implemented to facilitate their return to the country of their ancestors (Egypt, Irak, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, etc…).

    If it were good for the Sudetes, it should be good for the “Palestinians”.

  25. @ CuriousAmerican:

    what happen in Algeria a 100 yrs ago has no relavance now. Israel is a primarely Jewish and has aways been and will always be.
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    probably even written by a sage.

    If you mean Yamit 82,then for once you are correct.

  26. Tell me, were 19th and 20th century Jews happy with “ger toshav” status in the Western world, or did they want civil rights also?

    I could give you case after case where “ger toshav” status was not considered sufficient for Jews, by the Jews themselves.

    You might want to check out the Crémiuex decrees where the Jewish legislator, Adolphe Crémieux, made sure the Jews of French-held Algeria were given full French citizenship. Apparently “ger toshav” status was not sufficient for Mr. Crémieux.

    Mr. Crémieux did not see fit to give citizenship to the Muslims in their own country; so you had the odd effect that Algerian Jews who had never set foot in France had automatic French citizenship; while Algerian Muslims in their own country did not have civil rights.

    It strikes me as odd that you would want for Palestinians what the Jews would not tolerate for themselves.

    I am sure you will have some excuse to explain this inconsistency – probably even written by a sage.

  27. Its a red herring.

    Israel will NEVER annex the Arabs! I’m in favor of giving the Arabs inside Judea and Samaria ger toshav status which I would give the Arabs within Green Line Israel as well.

    There is no need to give them democratic rights Arabs in Arab countries don’t even receive. If they want political rights they can move to an Arab country to exercise them. In the end, Israel would be better off if ALL the Arabs were induced to leave so it could remain a Jewish State.

    The argument then between becoming a bi-national state or remaining a Jewish State is a false argument. Israel’s real problem is NOT the Arabs – its the Jews rebelling against G-d and refusing to embrace His gift. That is why the world applies anti-Jewish measures to the Jews when they are recalcitrant in affirming Jewish sovereignty over the entire country.

    ALL of Judea and Samaria MUST be incorporated into sovereign Israel. Whether or not Arabs live there is irrelevant. When G-d commands the Jew to do something, He must do it because this is commanded and his personal views don’t enter into what G-d expects of him. The entire Jewish nation IS Jewish land and NO Jew alive today or in the future may give ANY part of it away to a non-Jewish power. Period.

  28. CuriousAmerican Said:

    This area below is reserved for Yamit’s insults which will surely follow

    Yamit 82 happen be constructivly busy, however I have enought free time tell you to kindly eat caca!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or is caque!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. @ Ted Belman:
    I want to annex only Area C.

    I understand why you want to limit the annexation to area C. Even 1.5 Million is a demographic bulge and would double the Palestinians in Israel, and in the Knesset.

    But, I do not see how you think the world will not compare it to the Bantustans of South Africa. The world will howl. Maybe you do not care. But I do not think it is sustainable to break up the Palestinians up into a hundred or more non-contiguous areas and call it giving them independence or even autonomy.

    Independence would mean they could have their own airport with no Israeli oversight.

    If all you mean is autonomy, then you truly have an awful sell. It would look more like open air prisons, not matter what you call it.

    Pay the Arabs to leave.

    When I see Israeli Jewish writers discuss the wonders, and benefits of annexing C only, I have to ask if they think they are fooling anyone?

    One proponent said they would enfranchise the 35,000 Arabs in Area C, so the world could not call the Israelis racist.

    Was he for real? Of course the world will call it racist. Israel has refused to allow any construction in Area C – and has demolished earlier construction – so as to minimize the Arabs in area C. Maybe wisely, but the world will call it racism. Israel has demolished Arab communities in area C. They told the Arabs to move to B or A because of so called military exercises.

    Okay, wise from Israel’s point of view; but the world will not say: Wow! Israel let in 35,000 Arabs, they must not be racist.

    I think these guys are so enamored of their own ideas that they are impervious to reason.

    Good Luck. I understand why you want the Bennett Plan. It just ain’t gonna sell.

    Pay the Arabs to leave.

    ——————————————————————————————

    This area below is reserved for Yamit’s insults which will surely follow

  30. Are you in favor of annexation under those terms, Ted?

    You should try to pay some of them to leave, first.

  31. @ yamit82:
    Yamit correction Nehemia Shtrasler is an ugly male person who would not know the truth if it was spit in his face. But then he works for Haaretz an anti Zionist leftist rag!