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Menu There is no diplomatic solutionIsrael should declare three nos;
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
@Ted, so you get to decide who does not merit the land of their own country. Russia had signed a treaty conceding this land Ukraine in 1994 (I believe) at the time Ukraine made the huge mistake of giving them back the nukes stationed in Ukraine.
If they had kept the nukes Putin would not have dared twice invade Ukraine on the bullshit ruses he comes up with and some western born fools have also embraced.
Putin wants to expand Russia because this in his Russia National DNA. He has claimed the biggest crime of the 20th century was the dismantling of the Soviet Union. You clearly have bought his message. You and your historical facts are not correct, they are ignored because they are clearly nonsense.
Russians and of course Ukrainians I know all think Putin’s message are all lies. He is not Hitler but just Putin being Putin is certainly seriously evil. He is a power hungry mass killer who will stop at nothing to expand his power and the territory of the Russian Federation.
Putin can not be allowed to win because his territorial ambitions must be squelched and not encouraged. When he is beaten (hopefully) then it will be the right time to negotiate. Ukraine should get their land back in a peace treaty, hopefully Putin’s signature (assuming he has not been assassinated) is worth the paper it is written on.
Ted, your comment on Taiwan is NOT accurate.
Also do the Ukrainians mistreat Russians or do they fight Russian planted enemy fighters. So by killing and fighting the enemy then they should lose their land? Does the same rationale hold regarding Israel? We kill terrorists regularly. The Palestinians say we are killing Palestinians and fail to mention they are terrorists. So I am sure in Israel’s case you would define it differently, as I also do. With Ukraine you buy Putin’s lies!
@Bear
The narrative I set out is embraced by the following commentators.
Col Macgregor, Jeffry Sachs, Alex Mecouris, Judge Napolitano, Scott Ritter, Larry Johnson, Brian Berletic, Mearsheimer, and many more too numerous to list.
No one on the side of the US disputes their historical facts. They just ignore them.
Ukraine deserves to lose this land because of how they treated their ethnic Russians living there since 2014. These Russians have voted to join Russia as is their right according to international law.
The West had no problem severing Kosovo from Serbia and has been actively trying to sever Judea and Samaria from Israel. They also support the separation of Taiwan from China. So they are hypocritical in shedding tears for Ukrainian sovereignty.
@Peloni and Edgar I strongly disagree with you about Felix. I read his words and interpreted them to reflect his comment that it was just like Putin has started doing. Those words reflected someone who at that point in time was expressing Jew hatred. He did not in the past. But I decided it was it was not something I was willing to ignore, like I do most of his worthless commentary.
So if you feel different that is your views and I frankly it does not change my mind on the subject. Your views and assurances did not impress me. You are justifying his words below is frankly odd at best to me. Then like I said in the past believe what you like and I will believe what I believe. Neither one of you explained away the words he used but just gave me your views on him.
Edgar you who constantly calls me names inappropriately when you disagree with me. I mostly ignore because of your age and apparent Biden like affect on your cognitive abilities. You really probably should just stop providing your condescending remarks and opinions on my comments to me because in-spite of me excusing you, do your apparent declining condition it is getting tiring.
Peloni you believe Felix is Jewish? Is that correct? If yes ask him directly. I believe that is not the case. If that was the case in my mind I would not have made the comment to him and actually would say I am wrong. So you have arrived at a non-sequitur and that is why you made a left turn into the ADL.
@Bear
I think Edgar makes a fair point here. Felix is probably the only revolutionary I have ever known who relishes in his hopes of revolution, but whatever our disagreements might be, he is surely no antisemite. I have read his commentary for many years as I have your own, and I don’t recall ever thinking of classifying him as you have done, and there was nothing to relate this view prior to you making this charge against him in this thread. Though you and he agree on little, I would argue quite clearly that the embrace of our people is not easily claimed to be absent in either of you. I wouldn’t have commented on your quarrel, but reading Edgar’s critique raised to mind the damage which has been done to the fight against antisemitism which has been caused by the ADL in making sham claims of antisemitism for personal or political expediency. As a Jew with a strong sense of self identity, I can think of no greater sin than to be a self hating jew, and find no merit in the claim that this is remotely true of Felix.
BEAR-
I just read your comments to Felix further down the list and am very surprised, even shocked. I think you have a visceral dislike of him which causes you to accuse him of Anti-Semitism.
From my own lon- time experiences with him concerning my family in Ireland,, as well as almost every time he writes about Israel and/or Jews , I KNOW that he is 100% Phil- Judaic.
Your accusation was nasty.
@peloni. Peloni, you keep claiming that what you say are the “facts” and the “truth.” But you have never provided us with any sources for these “facts” or this “truth.” Maybe it is just what you read on RT, but I don’t even know that. It is time you come clean about what sources you are relying on for your “facts” and “truth.”
“He knows many things, but half of what he knows just ain’t so.” Will Rogers.
@chocopot
Yes, Operation Barbarossa could boast of about 3.8 million personnel in the invading armies – Army Group North, Army Group Center, and Army Group South – but these armies invaded Russia all along the German-Russian border, across a 2900 mile line. This, however, is not the number I was citing. Instead, I was referencing the force which actually invaded Ukraine during the Operation Barbarossa invasion, and this was the responsibility of Army Group South alone, led by Field Marshal von Rundstedt. Yet, while I was correct that the number was not so great as the 3.8 million force which you indicated, you were also correct that the number was not so small as half a million men. The half million men includedd only those forces involved in the direct operation of surrounding and trapping the Red Army forces during the Battle of Kiev, but Army Group South was a million man force. Thanks for the clarification.
@Ted you are correct on one point Putin is not Hitler. However you are wrong on everything else. You say give Putin the little of Ukraine he holds and the problem is over. Counting Crimea he holds about 19%.
Nice of you to give someone else’s country away. The Europeans say Putin must be stopped because he has been attacking other countries to expand Russia. I agree with them. You sound literally like RT when you do a complete reversal of the problem and say the Americans must be stopped. Stopped where it is the Russian’s attacking other countries and grabbing land. Yes NATO expanded to countries who wanted safeguarding from Russian expansionism.
Now Sweden and Finland have joined NATO because they want strength in numbers not from the Americans but from Putin’s expansionism.
So Putin has made NATO unified, better armed and larger. So Putin is Russia’s worst enemy and not the American’s.
@Ted
I completely concur!
@Bear
Perish the thought. I am simply fortunate enough to have the facts to support what I state, when they actually do support what I state, and when I do not, I am fortunate enough to have knowledgeable friends such as youself to point out my error as you did with the limits of the Russian air defense system.
@Felix, I have always thought of you, as a stupid communist and perhaps clinically insane. You wrote the following in which you sounded like Putin as he has started attacking Jews since this war started. You appear to be following suit as I quote you below. This will will be the last time I comment to you and I am again asking you to try some self control and not comment to me. You should because I basically find your comments consistently obnoxious at best. Certainly of no value in any discussion of a political or intellectual level.
The pointing out of a Jew to be was clearly an indication of Jew hatred.
Putin is not Hitler.
In this case the US is the aggressor.
This war could have been avoided many times but the US preferred to pressure Putin.
Even in Feb 2022, Putin’s demands were reasonable but the US chose not to give in so you have a huge war.
The US still won’t give in and the war goes on.
Give Russia what it wants namely the little bit of Ukraine it currently occupies and a neutral Ukraine and the war is over.
There is no downside to doing so.
@Irving@NWY
What happens when we realize that it has been we in the West who are the bully in the playground and those who oppose us are simply reacting to our own acts of belligerence, abuse and insolence.
If we do not recognize that this war was begun due to a lack of reasonable negotiations towards a peaceful solution, it will never be resolved, because the only way to resolve the conflict is to pursue the negotiations which were refused at the outset of the war.
In effect, there is no need to knock the Russians down as was the goal in refusing to negotiate with them in the first place. Rather it is only necessary to recognize that they have security interests, and that placing a NATO armed, trained and funded force on its borders is well past the limits of their tolerance, as were the Soviet missiles which Kennedy refused to tolerate being placed in Cuba.
Michael S
“Secondly, we can carry out a prolonged war in the Ukraine (just as we did in WWII, etc.), financing it exactly the same way we’ve been financing every other foolhardy scheme of this and past administrations — on the backs of our workers and grandchildren. Ukraine is a distraction, not the main problem.”
Look here dumbo
This is not the same. The big difference is that it is being fought between 2 antagonists armed with nuclear NOW not 1940
One mistake it is oblivion
You are a narcissist. You talk because you are a fool.
And you are so dangerous
Bear Klein
What you wrote was
Felix you are very much sound like a Russian commie stooge. You now just like Putin are starting to also sound like a Jew hater.
So for the first time in my life I have the Antisemitism canard used against me
Well there has to be a first time for everything
It certainly is a weighty charge for someone to make
You better have some more evidence than you presented
Which is in 2 parts really that which you follow with
1
This Jew and the Israelis are not crawling behind anyone. The USA with its good and bad (plenty of this) is the Israeli’s best ally. Not a perfect ally and certainly not as good an ally as it was under Trump but still an ally.
Answer is I can get a large number of Jews to agree with me and disagree with you. Easy to. I just got to present history.
2
Russian Jews and of Jewish heritage have been flocking to Israel since the Russian invasion occurred. By the way these new immigrants to Israel largely hope the Ukrainians win the war. They understand the right and wrong here and who the evil empire is.
Answer here is that is your statement and it means nothing. It may be true or false and it has nothing to do with me
So I don’t see how you call me a Jew Hater on that explanation either
It seems you threw this out as the most lethal discourse possible in these political debates
@Irving@NWY – Your comment is right on the money!! You nailed it!!
Irving, I agree with you; and thank you for steering the conversation back to the OP.
I watched the video. Of course, I did not like Candace’s use of foul language when talking about a people who have wrongly suffered so much. I dare say, she had no idea what she was talking about.
There certainly is a valid comparison with WWII:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FYUROP%2Fcomments%2F10mk9fy%2Farm_ukraine_and_prolong_the_war_they_say%2F&psig=AOvVaw2USs9DR6QnhoujsKCoaqr-&ust=1695330779317000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CA0QjRxqFwoTCMjfz7yNuoEDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
“Hitler has not attacked us. Why attack Hitler”?
I take issue with Steve Bannon and his “War Room” staff over the same matter — someone who, like Candace, has taken a sensible stance on other matters.
As for “the US can’t keep things right at home AND be involved in the world”, this does seem a bit silly. I’m surprised that Bannon, Owens et al have fallen for this. First of all, we were NOT “keeping things right at home” before the second Russian invasion; we were headed straight downhill, according to Bannon’s own experts. Secondly, we can carry out a prolonged war in the Ukraine (just as we did in WWII, etc.), financing it exactly the same way we’ve been financing every other foolhardy scheme of this and past administrations — on the backs of our workers and grandchildren. Ukraine is a distraction, not the main problem.
I normally agree with Candace Owens by not this time. Frankly, I think her response is facile and stupid. Yes, she could be a traditional isolationist. Then her position on going to war in WWII would be the same — let’s stay out of it. Would the world be nicer if Hitler had won?
Re Ukraine, whatever the stupidity of the Biden administration for allowing this to happen on their watch, we nonetheless have to step up as we would to any bully in our playground. The key of course was to create a deterrence to begin with. The war would not have happened on Trump’s watch.
For Owens to say that the U.S. can’t keep things right at home AND be involved in the world is plain silly and disappointing to hear from her. The problems of America are all related to Biden’s left-wing policies. Open borders, mass migration, influx of fentanyl, oil exploration, DEI, etc. are all reversible. Isolationism in 2023 is a recipe for disaster!
Hi, Felix. You said to me,
Please indulge me, and prove that you “ain’t a liar”. I did study high school geometry, so I should be able to follow your points.
Peloni, my esteemed colleague, you said,
I might just focus on your highly disingenuous “Be honest”, which you applied to a very honest and scholarly gentleman, Bear Klein. Since I’ve done and said far worse at times here, Ill take a “pass” at that one. Let’s get into the rest of what you said:
Are you talking about the Iraq military of history, essentially created by the US to fight the Iranians — a country rich in resources, with some of the highest military spending in the world, which until 1979 was a member of the NATO-like Central Treaty Organization?
Granted, the Iraqi military was supplied and equipped mainly by the Soviet Union (as was the Ukrainian military at the start of the “Special Operation”), and not by NATO; but the point is that Iraq DEFEATED the US-trained and equipped Iranians in a ten-year slugfest, giving them immeasurably more combat experience than the poorly-eqquipped Ukrainians got in their eight years of suppressing comparatively minor Russian-sponsored rebellions in the Donbass.
At the very least, Bear made a legitimate comparison.
Commentary: Israel ruined the reputation of Russian air defense systems, and it’s hurting sales
@Bear. I searched and got this answer and others to the question Can Israel defeat the S-400?.
@Peloni, sorry the Russian air defenses are easily beatable. The Israeli’s have learned how to beat the Russian air defense systems and my guess is shared this knowledge with the US.
F-35s are stealth for example and can easily penetrate Russian air defenses. You are a good debater but are out of your field of knowledge here.
@Bear
I suspect that much of what you state is quite true, but you ignore the advanced capabilities of the Russian air defenses and their supersonic tech for which the US has no response. The US also has no capability of supplying the munitions or missiles for a prolonged war with Russia, while being led by the most corrupt and incompetent leadership in modern history, and perhaps ancient history as well. So the threat of nuclear war is a real consideration, and not just from Russia. As you say, there is no winner in a nuclear war, which is why this war of Western military adventurism should have been avoided thru negotiations. It would have taken very little for peace to have been maintained and war avoided.
“There are no winners in a nuclear war.”
So why are you supporting Bandera Fascists
Nazis are never rational
I’m sorry you are actually making me sick and feeling like spewing up
That’s putting it gently
Why do you call me a Jew Hater and also Putin just as bad
Because I do not agree with our earth being an incineration due to a fuckwit called Zelensky and a shitty hole called Ukraine
@Peloni, I do not want the USA to enter a war with Russia today or ever. However the USA Air-Force would render the Russian military nearly useless in about two weeks time alone for all intents and purposes. The Russian navy would be destroyed in a few days time for starters.
The trouble unlike you the Russians know this and could resort to nuclear war because they would feel so threatened. There are no winners in a nuclear war.
Russians attacked Kyiv penetrated in a few place and mostly surrounded it early the war while trying to capture it. However, they failed to capture it and where beaten back the hard fighting Ukrainians. They clearly beyond any doubt tried to capture and have the Ukrainian government over taken by Russians or their stooges. How much of Ukraine they would have wanted to occupy if they had succeeded is a matter of analysis. Maybe not the far western parts near the NATO countries. They could have left this as sort of a no man’s land and a buffer to NATO.
@Felix you are very much sound like a Russian commie stooge. You now just like Putin are starting to also sound like a Jew hater.
This Jew and the Israelis are not crawling behind anyone. The USA with its good and bad (plenty of this) is the Israeli’s best ally. Not a perfect ally and certainly not as good an ally as it was under Trump but still an ally.
Russian Jews and of Jewish heritage have been flocking to Israel since the Russian invasion occurred. By the way these new immigrants to Israel largely hope the Ukrainians win the war. They understand the right and wrong here and who the evil empire is.
@Bear
It is complete assumption that it was Russia’s intention to seize Kiev, just as it is an assumption that it was ever their intent to conquer all of Ukraine. In fact, there was nothing suggesting that such a maneuver as either of these was ever initially intended. The 190K force, which was too small a force to seize the 3million man city of Kiev, did not focus on Kiev or even the area around it. Instead, a single column stood as a threat on the approaches to Ukraine, and never made any advance on the city itself.
What we do know is that there was no massive force capable of dominating Ukraine sent into Ukraine by Russia, at least not at the outbreak of Russia entering into the conflict. The numbers speak clearly to this fact.
As to the Russians not being as good as the American forces, well let us just hope that such a contest is never demonstrated one way or the other. It should be noted that the US has no land base force with which to face Russians, which is why they chose to fill the body bags with Ukrainians instead.
Bear Klein writes
“So the Russian, military was basically incompetent in intelligence, planning, training, analysis and execution. The point you and Ted are avoiding or not grasping is that Russian original plan failed miserably not because of intent but because of competency.”
Whatever
The real point is seeing a Jew puffing out his chest as he crawls behind a big empire and becomes the toy of Stepan Bandera
That’s the reality here
Michael
We all know you lie and have refused to give sources
So give a source for this
‘What’s more, this was Russia’s SECOND invasion of Ukraine; its first was in 2014.”
That’s a sordid lie
Prove you ain’t a liar
@Peloni, that was one of the Russians huge mistakes thinking the Ukrainian Army of 2022 was like the Ukrainian Army 2014.
The analogy I was making was one of the size of the forces. If the Russian military would have been anywhere near as good as the USA forces they would have succeeded in their attack and taken Kiev.
So the Russian, military was basically incompetent in intelligence, planning, training, analysis and execution. The point you and Ted are avoiding or not grasping is that Russian original plan failed miserably not because of intent but because of competency.
It is like a national team in soccer who fields their B team or second team when facing an opponent they do not respect. They then lose and make the excuse we were not trying and did not play our best team. Bottom line is they miscalculated the strength of the opponent and lost the game badly. In this case meaning large amounts of soldiers and military equipment.
@Bear
Be honest. You are comparing the army of Iraq to the NATO armed, trained and funded army of Ukraine which had been at war for a period of 8yrs. No matter how little you might think of the Ukrainain forces, they should have been far more competent, supplied with far better weapons, and thereby far more capable than the desert legions of Saddam.
In fact, the comparison you are trying to make fails any test of reason or rationale, and this remains true no matter the degree of battlefield experience anyone might have had while making such an incomplete analogy.
@Ted or anyone else who has not served in a military or para-military strategy meeting. The word mass is not relevant in attacking an opponent in modern effective military. For reference take a look at US invasion of Iraq with if memory serves me well about ~150,000- 160,000 soldiers in entire coalition who coordinated air and ground power to swiftly take over Iraq. The Russian initial force that was brought into Ukraine was a similar size and tried to do similar things to the US military in Iraq, as they tried to swiftly conquer Kiev but failed miserably.
They simply do not hold a candle to the USA military (and its British allies) in comparison.
The Russians were trying to do something similar in Ukraine ( a country of similar size). The Russian military failed because they were not competent as you can read below in the first articles I referenced. https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-ill-fated-invasion-ukraine-lessons-modern-warfare.
Ted, I guess you really believe Putin when called this full scale invasion a “Special Operation”. Russian propaganda without a doubt!!!!!
Full article for those wanting to read anything other than what resembles RT. This is current.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/ukraine-update-september-2023/
Russia attacked Ukraine with a very large force that they thought was adequate enough to win the war quickly. They were mistaken and made huge mistakes. Comparisons to other conflicts by other armies at other times are not relevant here a perhaps a red-herring from pro Russians. Anyone who wants to read a professional and in depth analysis of what occurred and why the Russians failed in their objectives. Should read this study at https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-ill-fated-invasion-ukraine-lessons-modern-warfare.
A piece of it is below:
Sebastien, you are always the comic!
https://moviesanywhere.com/movie/the-mouse-that-roared
It is true that, in the movie at least, the Grand Fenwick army defeated the United States and captured the “Q bomb”. Are you suggesting that Ukraine has been planning on sending its crack longbowmen to Russia and taking their nukes?
The Ukrainians are, indeed, the best soldiers in the world; but I don’t think the Russians have ever seriously been afraid of being overrun by them.
Peloni-
One comment with regard to your posting. When the Germans invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 (Operation Barbarossa), the invading force was in excess of three million men, not half a million as you stated. Just wanted to correct that for the record.
@Michael Such as Armenia? They conquered and ethnicallly cleansed a million Azeris from Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azeris fought back, and the world responded with peace negotiations. Not here. This is about conquering Russia not saving “Ukraine”.
And didn’t the whole thing begin with West Ukraine shelling the Donetsk and Luhansk republics for 8 years – covered by the BBC – killing 14,000 people, over 3,000 of them civilians before the Russian Federation finally stepped in after accepting their petition for membership much as The U.S. did Texas’s?
Hi, Adam
Exactly.
I agree with you completely, Bear. Russia now has over 400,000 occupation forces in Ukraine, as well as puppet forces in the Donbass, and initially attacked with nearly 200,000 forward-deployed troops, plus more than that supporting and in reserve. This was an invasion greater than the US invasions of Vietnam and Kuwait, and far exceeds what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. What’s more, this was Russia’s SECOND invasion of Ukraine; its first was in 2014.
Until Peloni accepts the reality of the situation, it’s difficult to have an intelligent descussion on the matter. Again, I will provide the latest best information I can find on the situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW4Cm7IL0lM
Ted,
Your charge of “US hegemony” remind me of the Soviet Cold War rhetoric from the 1960s. Pretending that EITHER side in EITHER war (as well as the “Great Game” between Britain and Russia) was NOT being “hegemonic” and “imperialist” is a “name and blame” game. It is simply a war: It seems to me, that either one supports the US and its allies, or one supports Russia and its allies, or one sits out the propaganda game.
@Bear
Speaking of propaganda, few would make such a claim as this:
because this is simply not true. Russia invaded with a force of between 150K-190K men when the expectation of Russia’s invasion was well expected. Opposing them was a army of
Comparatively, the Nazi invasion of 1941 included a force of over half a million men when they did have the element of surprise. The idea that 190K Russians was enough to overwhelm a nation of some 30-40 million with armed forces which could boast of a well veteraned force of over half a million men who had been trained, armed and funded by NATO and the West is quite ridiculous. In anticipation of the invasion, Russia did not mobilize new forces, nor did it draw on new conscriptions to bolster their already massive numbers in their million man army. Instead they invaded with a force incapable of doing much more than threatening Ukraine, although they did far more than this with that force.
It has been well remarked by all sides that any attacking force should have number 3X the size or the force it is approaching, so the force which would have been well suited to have been overwhelmed by the Russians would have been somewhere around 50-60K men, and there was double this number present in Dombas shelling the inhabitants, ignoring the rest or Ukraine’s armed forces.
Despite this fact, with just the roughly 150-190K soldiers, Russia came to conquer all the cities listed in your ‘professional article’ which lined the
This is notwithstanding the setback which Russia suffered after having captured these cities, but this too was representative of the fact that Russia had too few men on the field and not an overwhelming number as you seem to believe to be true.
It should also be noted that the article you cited is well outdated, being over a year old, so many other things have changed since then, but the claim that Russia invaded with a ‘mass invasion’ force is not an easy one to make, and the author of the Neocon thinktank article you shared does not even make the attempt to support the claim you have made. Instead he states clearly that
Russia invaded with a minimalist force for the task of conquering anything. This is not propaganda, just the facts.
But the war is not yet over, and should reports be found to be accurately reported, Russia is indeed massing an intimidating force to do just as Ted has suggested and what you believe has already occurred.
@ Ted, I think you believe Russian propaganda and are completely in error on most everything you say or believe about Russia.
Russia did make a mass invasion of Ukraine and failed to take over Kiev in the early days of the war. They lost masses amount of men and equipment. Their military turned out to be vastly over rated.
“Russia’s Ill-Fated Invasion of Ukraine: Lessons in Modern Warfare
Brief by Seth G. Jones Published June 1, 2022
Russia has failed to achieve most of its objectives in Ukraine because of poor military planning, significant logistical problems, low combat readiness, and other deficiencies, which undermined Russian military effectiveness. These and other challenges—including Ukrainian military efforts and Western aid—severely impacted Russian air, ground, cyber, and maritime operations. Russia’s failures will force the Russian military to fundamentally rethink its training practices, organizational structure, culture, logistics, recruitment and retention policies, and planning efforts. Nevertheless, Russia is still attempting a de facto annexation of parts of eastern and southern Ukraine that it controls.”
Full professional article at: https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-ill-fated-invasion-ukraine-lessons-modern-warfare
@Adam. If Russia was as imperialistic as you suggest, they would be invading Ukraine en mass. But they are very constrained. As I see it, Russia does not want to take over all of Ukraine. They are content with what they have now but have to find a way to get the West to agree. Russia cannot sit tight and wait for the West to agree. Russia will have to take Odessa and all lands east of the Dnieper to force the issue.
This war is not about stopping Russian imperialism but about stopping US hegemony.
@Sebastien
Good point.
@Adam Sounds like the Domino theory which was the rationale for our involvement in Vietnam and which turned out to be unfounded. But South Korea is an undeniable success story as was the Yom Kippur War emergency weapons air lift. As for diplomacy, it was partly the fault of diplomacy that Israel needed the airlift as Kissinger and Nixon pressured Israel not to attack pre-emptively, as Russia has.
Of course . the above will be only some of the disatrous consequences if the U.S. deserts the Ukrainians. The Russian conquest of Ukraine will legitimate similar invasions in the eyes of every country in the world that wants to annex or seize land from a militarily weaker neighbor. Most notably, it will mean Iran will move to annex the Shi’te regions of Iraq, Bahrain and Oman. Possibly Kuwait as well, And according to what I read on the web, large parts of Afghanistan. Pakisatan and China may unite to attack India and seize much of the territory disputed between the three nations. And it will either invade the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia where nearly all of its oil is, oe arm Shi’ite separatists in the region to do it and then hand the territory over to Iran. Of course China will invade Taiwan, which it may do in any case. And it will also seize all of the islands it has been disputing with its neighbors, the Philippines, and Japan.
In order to adjust to this changing world order, in which the United States is no longer an active factor in much of the world, new alliances will be forged. Australia and New Zealand may sign trieties with China making them de facto protectorates of that nation. Japan and South Korea may decide that they can no longer rely on the U.S. to protect them, and therefore develop their own nuclear weapons. If China does invade Taiwan, Japan may well send in their own army to help the Taiwanese, even though this will violate their pacifist constiution.
How will the United States react to all this? Probably the Biden administration, under pressure from the permanent civil service agencies, (CIA, DIA, NSA etc.) and tsenior military officers, will be forced to announce a massive rearmament, possibly a return of the draft. Of course the public’s reaction will be negative to all this. But an intense bombardment of propaganda from the media, including scary photographas of what is happening in Ukraine, and possibly what is happening on Taiwan. could chane public opinion within a few months at most. The media would cover Russian advances in Ukraine and Chinese advances in Taiwan every day. Both former Russian “oligarchs now living in the U.S. and Chinese oligarchs, also now ligving in the U.S. and granted refugee status, will be extensively interviewed about what is going on their former countries.
Actually, declaring war on most of the world and reversing course on military spending, calling for a massive increase and a massive call-up of men to serve in the armed forces, voluntarily or otherwise, might prove to be an excellent realection strategy for the Dens in 2024. A war will distract people from their economic problems. It provide a lot of well-paying jobs in the defense industry. It will provide excellent cover for bailing out the banks and all the “troubled” corporations. And most republicans will feel obliged to go along for fear of appearing unpatriotic. If the Freedom Caucus and other conservative “dissidents” oppose the war, they will be deplored by everyone else as unpatriotic ‘isolationists.”
Because U.S. conventional forces have been cut back for so long, in order to fight the Chinese and Russians, the U.S. may be forced to use its arsonal of “unconventional” weapons, such as tactical nukes. Oy vay.
This is probably what will happen if we desert Ukraine.
@Adam We have conflicting narratives here. What are your sources?
Yeah right. F—k Ukraine means f___king ourselves. Let’s get real. If the Russians succeed in conquering Ukraine, they will exterminate the Ukrainians. And those who escape will crowd in to Germany, England and United States.
The Russians conducted a war of extermination against the Chechens. Why should we expect any different behavior in Ukraine? In some Ukrainian cities that they have already occupied they have evicted the Ukrainian population, or at any rate anyone who was even remotely suspected of supporting the Ukrainian government. Ukrainian documents were all banned and confiscated. If a Ukrainian wanted to stay in his native city, he had to apply for Russian documents and claim to be Russian, And in order to be recognized as a Russian, his background and personal history, especially his political history was carefully checked.
If Russia succeeds in conquering Ukraine, these policies will be applied nationwide. Anyone even remotely connected with the Ukrainian government or its army’s officer corps will be shot. If they are lucky, they will only be deported to Siberia. If any town or village resists conquest, they will be starved out. Ukrainian farms and farm produce will be confiscated and the produce sold on the international market. Ditto with Ukrainian mines and factories,
To make matters worse, there are many foreign correspondents in Ukraine, most of them Brits. If allowed to return to Britain, they will tell horror stories that will be broadcast on all the UK radio stations. If they somehow manage to smuggle out some film, the Brit public will see horror scenes.
The Russians could avoid this disastrous publicity by interning all of the foreign correspondents in Ukraine. But in that case they will arouse even more rage in Britain. What is being done to our journalists? Are they even alive?
The Ukrainian survivors will certainly make their way to the United States, where they will claim refugee status. With the USG allowing unlimited cross-border immigration from Latin America without even background checks, they it have a really hard time keeping out the Ukrainians. Ukrainian-Americans, Polish-Americans, and even Russian-Americans (mainly anti-Kremlin) will demonstrate behalf of the the survivors. And these communities may well hold the balance of power in many ‘blue” states that the Democratic party must win if it is to remain in power after the 2024 election, if it is even remotely honest, free and fair.
Probable result: The Brits will send in their own troops to rescue the Ukrainians. Because Britain is America’s closest ally, the Biden administration will be forced to send U.S, troops as well. Certainly the rRpublicans in Congress will demand it, whatever their present views of Ukraine. In other words, World War III.
So, every U.S. intervention since WWII was a disaster including Korea and the Iranian people don’t want to live like Americans so we should take all the pressure off the Iranian regime. We just need more diplomacy. Peace in our time. Uh huh.
Her remark about every generation getting dumber is actually an over-generalization because the education system isn’t centralized and some schools are amazingly advanced. There’s even a school I passed that advertised computer training for pre-schoolers! There’s a high school that specializes in robotics. There’s two, I know of, that have award winning performing arts programs and put on Broadway like shows with like professionalism with parental participation, public schools, Pleasantville, and Red Bank, NJ. The one one in Red Bank is part of a local network of schools, one of which offers pre-med, in high school!
But, her remark about every generation getting dumber reminds me of the hilarious 2006 film, “Idiocracy” directed by Mike Judge, about two really dim-witted people who are cryogenically frozen in an army experiment and who get forgotten until hundreds of years later when they awake to find they are the smartest people on the planet.