We don’t know enough about what is going on. As I understand it, they give us 900 million EUROS providing it is spent west of the green line. Israel contributes 600 EUROS to the fund. Presumably everyone shares the intellectual property created but we don’t how they share it. The appendix sounds like our 14 reservations to the Roadmap. Nothing will come of it. I don’t understand why this program is so important to Israel. The net difference of 300 EUROS would be easy to find especially now that we are an energy rich country. What’s in it for us. Please enlighten me. Ted Belman
RELATED
BY ANDREW RETTMAN, EUOBSERVER
Under the funding deal, the EU and Israel will shortly sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on Israel’s participation in the Union’s “Horizon 2020” research programme.
The grants will be governed by new EU guidelines, which say Israeli firms and institutions cannot spend a cent of EU money on activity in occupied Palestinian land.
Contacts familiar with the MoU text told EUobserver it will include an appendix saying Israel does not recognise the guidelines.
But they described the appendix as “futile … a fig leaf.”
They said the Horizon 2020 “work programme” and “calls for proposals” – which detail implementation – will oblige Israeli entities to comply with the guidelines if they want EU cash.
Crucially, the European Commission will also send Israel a notification on the implementing documents.
The legal notice means Israel will not be able to challenge Horizon 2020 eligibility criteria in the EU court in Luxembourg and Israeli entities will not be able to challenge them in Israeli courts.
The EU went some way to help Israel save face.
It agreed to the Israeli appendix.
It is keeping quiet on the work programme and legal notification issue.
EU officials also agreed to let Israel break news of the accord in Israeli media so they could spin it as a “compromise” in which Israel won “concessions.”
Israel spends a fraction of its €500 million income from Horizon projects in occupied zones.
But after years of verbal criticism, the Horizon 2020 deal represents the EU’s first legal blow against settlement expansion.
It also creates a precedent for EU grants in other sectors for the next seven years.
“This agreement will pave the way for Israel’s participation in other EU programmes to be launched from 1 January 2014,” the two sides said in a joint statement on Tuesday (26 November).
Israeli spin backfires
EU diplomats told this website that Israeli PR made the EU less flexible than it might have been.
The EU commission, at one point in the talks, wobbled on the legal notification issue.
But a series of leaks by Israeli officials to Israeli media saying EU negotiators had agreed to water down its new regime prompted Arab diplomats, pro-Palestinian NGOs, MEPs and European politicians to deluge EU institutions with complaints.
“The lesson is that even if you are speaking to your domestic audience, your enemy is also reading the press,” an EU source told this website.
“We had an unprecedented number of high-level letters, meetings, which made it very tough for the EU to back down,” he added.
Other Israeli efforts were equally counterproductive.
On Monday, the eve of the Horizon 2020 deal, Israel sent major general Eitan Dangot to talk to EU diplomats in an EU Council working group on the Middle East.
Dangot, the head of Cogat, a branch of the Israeli defence ministry responsible for the occupied territories, showed EU diplomats a slide presentation of Palestinian children with AK47s designed to demonstrate that Palestine does not want a peace deal.
He said Palestinians should be “grateful” for the occupation because Israel builds them schools and other facilities.
Dutch and Swedish delegates complained, saying Israel has destroyed dozens of EU-funded projects in Palestine.
“The more I listen to this kind of thing, the less sympathy I have for the Israeli point of view,” another EU diplomat who met Dangot told this website.
The EU’s hard line on settlements does not mean it is not giving Israel what it wants in other areas, however.
Quid pro quo
Also on Tuesday, EU states, the US and Turkey in the “Western European and Others Group [Weog]” at the UN office in Geneva agreed to let Israel become a fully-fledged member.
Weog co-ordinates voting positions and holds internal debates, in a similar way to political groups in the European Parliament.
The move comes despite the fact that in 2009 EU states froze plans for a “diplomatic upgrade” in EU-Israel relations, part of which included Weog membership in Geneva.
EU foreign relations chief Catherine Ashton told MEPs in September the freeze is still in force.
But a diplomat from one EU country told EUobserver that many EU capitals have “forgotten” their 2009 decision.
“Four years is an eternity in diplomatic life,” he said.
He noted that Germany pushed for the Weog move in order to compensate Israel for the settlement funding rules.
“It’s a clear breach of the upgrade freeze. But there is a broader mindset in which the EU is afraid of its own shadow on Israel, and it has certainly cast a shadow with the new guidelines,” he added.
An Israeli diplomat told EUobserver: “We don’t see any connection between Weog and the guidelines.”
The German foreign ministry declined to comment.
@ yamit82:
Whatever “little helpers” you take — uppers, downers, or sidewaysers — they don’t mix well with ethyl alcohol (of any variety), as evidenced in your easy irritability over my explaining a simple suspicion in re the Reuters poll.
Only to somebody who sees me as the embodiment of what he’s been fleeing.
Oh, so that‘s why they shot up Columbine? It was all about their grandparentage? SSRI’s had no connection?
Got it.
Nu, so Christianity is now genetic, key ayin hara? ROTFLMAO.
If you’re enjoying it, you’re sure trying awfully hard to ‘persuade’ me that you are.
Like any other addiction.
Little wonder that you went ba’al t’shuva in your old age
— (a lot of good it did you).
Ah, yes — famous last words. A variation on “every man did what was right in his own eyes.”
If what somebody does (or fails to do) dulls his perceptions, or weakens his sensibilities, or deadens his discernment w/ respect to one matter or another, how is he able to KNOW whether it’s “harmful” or not?
Whosever way it is, yahnkel, it isn’t YOURS.
That sounds like advice to the man in your mirror more than to YoursTruly.
The library has no special appeal for me — it’s just another place. My only reason for being here is to use the internet computers.
In fact, when it comes to actual time spent online (wherever you spend it), YOU’ve got me (along w/ everybody else on this board) beat by a country mile.
So WHO is it that needs to get out more & enjoy life?
honeybee Said:
I had a girlfriend. Always loyal to the one I’m with. 😉
honeybee Said:
the bought pols and their masters are not affected, not their problem. More aliens needed to keep the rest busy and competing for scarce benefits and jobs. crabs in a barrel , rats on a wheel. Those arranging this situation have their eyes on being part of a global rather than a national elite. A global aristocracy that is able to run the world through private and public corporations plus NGO’s etc where the pols are elected through manipulated electronic voting machines and laws are made by their appointees. everywhere power is being handed to non elected bodies further from the citizen: the EU, the WTO, the UN, etc. Technological advancement will be co-opted to them and only the basics will be left to the rats on the wheel(TV, drugs, make busy, work) Uppity humans will be regularly sent to fight wars and die in controlled theaters: Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc. Nobody will notice much. Resistance is futile.
@ yamit82:
@ bernard ross:
Watch FX’s program “The Bridge”. Gives a idea of the problems on the Tec/Mex border, and some really nice photos of El Paso and Juarez. Yje disintegration of the border is horendous, and few are aware and fewer give a damn.
yamit82 Said:
I sued the mafia and won 😛 However, I cant really boast because I was so small they didn’t give a crap. they were too busy looting S&L’s, banks and corporations during the Reagan/Bush years of deregulation. That’s when I learned that whenever I hear the word deregulation, and the narrative supporting it, that it is a red herring setup for looting. I found that the mafia collaborated with the operators of the banks and corps in the looting. One of the guys is in jail for looting a trucking corp of 90 million and suspected of looting a cal. S&L for 35 mill over some south miami beach hotels. They were looting hundreds of millions over the country. I learned that no operation was too petty: in las vegas they owned banks that issued credit cards to false fronts and then bankrupted the cards collecting the charges and the insurance. In Miami they were in collaboration with big local banks and Columbian drug money laundering banks. The “executives” running those banks and corps look like the same types running the US today. Politics is pure BS, a feeding trough.
yamit82 Said:
Not that big,why didn’t you look me up???????????
yamit82 Said:
My Mother was raised Lutheran,one strike and your out,”man by nature is sinfull and unclean”.
yamit82 Said:
And what would you pour for me????????
yamit82 Said:
The cartelistas are more dangerous group,stay away from them.
@ Yidvocate:
Are you complaining because the complainers are complaining???????? yawl
yamit82 Said:
Your not that complicated!!!!!!!!!!!!Darlin
Jordan Elected to UN Security Council
UN General Assembly elects Jordan to the Security Council seat that Saudi Arabia rejected.
honeybee Said:
How did you know?
yamit82 Said:
La vida,gustarle!!!!!!!!!! I thought you were finish posting and were enjoying a cigarette???????Sugar
honeybee Said:
así es la vida
@ yamit82:
I always get the last word!!! I lke that!!!!!Darlin
yamit82 Said:
Be carefull what you wish for,you might regret it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Can’t answer till I’ve actually been with one. An experience I look forward to having.
yamit82 Said:
Aew you man enought for a tequila cowgirl.Darlin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://youtu.be/ySdRUWYJhsk
honeybee Said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG6P2rBU-ho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxmqv3Rc4-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM2Vpzohj2k
Comment to dweller blocked by filter.
dweller Said:
Sorry I have never taken antidepressants, really no need. But you are depressing without the drug.
“VoDKa” and “VoDkA”.???? 🙂
Klebold is the product of mixed Jewish and christian grandparents (mothers side, (Yassenoff, and he was only acting out his christian genetic bestial nature. Lutherans are a tough bunch.
Actually I switch; JD sometimes and Vodka at others although sometimes I drink Tequila and Rum. Depends on what’s available, my mood, the company or what I am eating at the time.
I’m a very eclectic Booze drinker as I am with everything else. Unlike you I support enjoyment of life and consider almost everything permitted as long as it’s not harmful to me and others and done in moderation. Balance and moderation is the Jewish way.
When I was younger I have only killed those trying to kill me and enemies with no remorse or regrets only pride and relief it was them and not me. Try it sometime there is not greater High and I say that even though I have jumped from 10,000 ft and have Kayaked in some very fast and dangerous white water. Made a lot of money running guns into Mexico for the mafia when I was in college. Danger was from the Mafia and I Made a few runs and then quit, Texas is a big Country. When I lived in Europe after I graduated I supported myself from Casino winnings. Played only one game and always quit when I made my daily expenses I was very disciplined. Food and drinks were free to players and that saved me quite a bit on expenses a well.
Get out of your damn library dweller and learn to enjoy life. The next one might be worse, you might return as a bug, fish or a snake even a stinking Arab Muslim fanatic. 😛
dweller Said:
“VoDKa” and “VoDkA”.???? 🙂
Klebold is the product of mixed Jewish and christian grandparents (mothers side, (Yassenoff, and he was only acting out his christian genetic bestial nature. Lutherans are a tough bunch.
Actually I switch; JD sometimes and Vodka at others although sometimes I drink Tequila and Rum. Depends on what’s available, my mood, the company or what I am eating at the time.
I’m a very eclectic Booze drinker as I am with everything else. Unlike you I support enjoyment of life and consider almost everything permitted as long as it’s not harmful to me and others and done in moderation. Balance and moderation is the Jewish way.
When I was younger I have only killed those trying to kill me and enemies with no remorse or regrets only pride and relief it was them and not me. Try it sometime there is not greater High and I say that even though I have jumped from 10,000 ft and have Kayaked in some very fast and dangerous white water. Made a lot of money running guns into Mexico for the mafia when I was in college. Danger was from the Mafia and I Made a few runs and then quit, Texas is a big Country. When I lived in Europe after I graduated I supported myself from Casino winnings. Played only one game and always quit when I made my daily expenses I was very disciplined. Food and drinks were free to players and that saved me quite a bit on expenses a well.
Get out of your damn library dweller and learn to enjoy life. The next one might be worse, you might return as a bug, fish or a snake even a stinking Arab Muslim fanatic. 😛
dweller Said:
Yamit82 is a vodka man, ” the most interesting man in the world”. Opps thats tequila!!!
@ yamit82:
@ dweller:
It may not have been new to YOU.
However, like you, I’m always conscious that my remarks are read by more than just those to whom they are actually directed.
Under the circumstances, it was reasonable to provide an explanation for my challenge to the Reuters claim of ‘wide USA support’ for the Iran deal.
Very little actually. It was mostly a copy-&-paste job (+ slight edit) of posts of mine on earlier threads here, going back maybe 18 months.
Are your antidepressants wearing off again? (I’m sure you must realize they’ll don’t mix well with Jack Daniels.)
— or are you trying to go cold turkey off of them? Careful; remember Harris & Klebold.
yamit82 Said:
You say your head is where?????????????
honeybee Said:
How do you want me to ans? I’m flexible.
yamit82 Said:
Darlin, do I have you talking to youself now?????????
yamit82 Said:
Tx alway flirts with them if they are females, it gets so deep sometimes I have to get a shovel. Yankee boys are good, Southern boys are better,but Texas boys wrote the book.
yamit82 Said:
Darlin, A man at the flea market said that very thing to me, when I was giving my favorite vendor a hard time. I looked him straight in the eye and in a firm loud and comanding voice said, YES!!!!!!!!!!!! AND ITS YOUR FAULT THE TREE FELL!!!!!!!!! He looked at me for a minute [if Tx hadn’t been there, I think he was ready to throw me over shoulder and run off with me. I have a “cave man” effect on certain types.
@ yamit82:
Shit!!!! I didn’t ask for a polling dissertation. Do you think I anything you said is new to me??? How much of your very valuable library time did you waste on comment #8???
@ honeybee:
If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?
@ honeybee:
I always ask for their phone # so I can call them back.
@ dweller:
@ yamit82:
T loves when pollsters call him, he lets his imgination loose!!! I suspect Darlins, he is not the only one.
dweller Said:
Reuters was purchased some years ago by some Saudis and I doubt that despite their anti Israel bent they would be supportive of Iran or the Bomb in Iranian hands.
@ yamit82:
Rasmussen is always more reliable than Reuters (or, for that matter, most anybody else).
For one thing, he takes larger samplings. In this case, 1000 vs under 600. His margin of error, here 3%, tends to be smaller than that of other pollsters — the Reuters poll margin here was 4.9%.
For another thing, Rasmussen typically samples “likely voters,” not just anybody (not even merely “registered voters,” but likely ones).
That is, he polls people — as he did this time — who take a minimal interest in being a part of the common political life of the country — not just some tattooed dufus who happened to be stumbling over a crack in the sidewalk when some flunkie w/ a clipboard stuck a mic under his nose & said, “whaddaya think, buddy?”
Not wide.
Actually it said 44% pro, 22% con.
— That leaves 34% percent unaccounted for.
Remember that polls actually have TWO functions, not one:
A. the stated function, which is to ascertain public opinion; and
B. the unstated (but actually more prevalent) function, which is to mold, shape, and create opinion.
Now, there’s a relationship BETWEEN the two functions:
It’s when they are determining opinion that they establish their credibility.
But it’s when they are creating opinion that they make their money.
The more CRED they can point to, the more BUCKS they can command when somebody wants to hire them for an opinion-shaping project.
When they’re making their money, NOBODY’s polls are worth a tinker’s damn from the perspective of determining opinion, because this is when whatever CRED they’ve been able to garner is being put to work at creating & shaping opinion.
They select & phrase & order their questions — and choose their samplings — in whatever manner as will most likely produce the result they seek.
That, frankly, is what this Reuters poll smelled like to me.
As for the current polling generally, it’s going to take a little while for the country to feel itself out & decide what it thinks about the deal; the matter is very much still in flux
— and I strongly suspect that the Reuters poll was intended to influence the outcome while it’s IN flux. I’d be very interested to know who commissioned it.
@ bernard ross:
Poll shows Americans split on Iran deal
Rasmussen survey shows US citizens split down the middle over agreement with Tehran, while Reuters poll reveals wide support for Geneva accord
This is why the left continues its swindling policy to deceive the Israeli public.
comment 4 in moderation
BB has demonstrated and extraordinarily poor level of leadership and judgement. He has caved on iran, he has caved on the EU and he is is likely to cave on the peace negotiations. He has shown he is a poor judge of international affairs as he was shocked by Obama, shocked by the Eu and I expect he will be shocked again in the negotiations. If he cannot read his partners and adversaries after having personal, direct access to them and privy to Israeli intelligence services and advisers in business,what can he read? He appears clueless, as if everything he expected didn’t happen. He pinned everything on those expectations which required trustworthy behavior on the part ot others. I have none of his resources and I cannot imagine for a moment pinning my hopes on the other. BB appears to be an idiotic pawn in a big mans game and Israel is paying for his mistakes. All he appears to care about is maintaining his own power.
I see no reason for Israel to share its advances with EU members; what advances have they made recently? Everyone is investing in Israel but Israel’s PM is putting his investment into the bankrupt EU. Buffet, Slim, Gates, the Chinese,all inveting in Israel. If BB had half a brain he wold invest the 600 mill in Israael where those who know something are investing. Israel needs to keep the fruits of its advances not share them with the useless EU. If the EU had totally dumped Israel then Israel would create solutions, as usual. This looks like a move by selfish leftist Israel govt. employed academics.
What does Israel need from a dying Europe anyway? It’s Europe that needs Israeli science. Why else would they have even invited Israel to join the 2020 Horizon thing? Again, it wasn’t because they were doing Israel any favors. It was because Israel has much to offer. So why does Israel always cave?
The epitome of chuzpah! These EU-funded projects were all constructed in Area C under exclusive Israeli civilian and security control in accordance with the Oslo Accords to which the EU is a signatory. They were all constructed in flagrant disregard for Israeli jurisdiction, without permits. Oh the stench of EU hypocrisy, which knows no bounds!
The Europeans are anti-Semites and hypocrites.
Israel’s leftist academics who successfully forced Israel to joining under the EU guidelines will find they’re still shunned because they’re “dirty Jews.”
They’re the ones who are going to have to accept their gift is not the shiny new toy they excitedly insisted on having at any price.