By Ted Belman
- The Deal of the Century will not only be tabled but also effected very soon.
- By announcing that the US troops are being withdraw from Syria, Trump is changing tactics not allies. He remains loyal to his allies. Wait and see how this is manifested.
- Mattis is being moved out earlier (Jan 1/19) so that the new guy can take charge of all these changes.
- Erdogan is not Trump’s new best friend. He will not cross the Euphrates.
- Russia has been very silent. Why so?
- Israel attacked Syrian and Iranian arms depots with a barrage of missiles yesterday.
- Trump announced that the government will stay shut until he gets his financing for the wall.
- The US under Trump will recognize Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan.
“B- Didn’t have to be a prophet of genius to predict future wars and famines et al..”
Edgar has said something similar. I wasn’t being a genius, just answering Edgar’s question.
@ Michael S:
34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Footnotes:
Matthew 24:15 Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11
Matthew 24:29 Isaiah 13:10; 34:4
Matthew 24:30 Or the tribes of the land
Matthew 24:30 See Daniel 7:13-14.
Matthew 24:33 Or he
What a load of crap!!
A- He plagiarized from Daniel and Isaiah and Daniel.
B- Didn’t have to be a prophet of genius to predict future wars and famines et al..
C- All of the Temple was not destroyed see: Western Wall
D- What IS the abomination that causes desolation? Why was the destruction of the second Temple off by 40 years?
Are the “prophecies” spoken by Jesus found in the Hebrew Scriptures?
Doesn’t make logical sense. If Yeshu was coming out from the Temple why would he want to show the building to his followers? Also, this was written by Matthew in the year 80 almost 20 years after the destruction of the temple… it’s like me predicting 9/11 today from hindsight. Stupid!!! If I claimed a message from heaven that there will be war in Israel it would be a pretty safe prediction even without claims of divine messages. Same with Yeshu safe prediction about wars famines and destruction….prophesy is when predicting the unimaginable will happen and it does…. foretelling current events that are common and near predictable is not biblical prophecy. Good calculated guess at best. [ christians have always used the destruction of the temple to explain that Jews were punished for rejecting Yeshu.]
see acts 1:6
They asked him because restoration is part of messianic expectations and he could’t give an answer proving he could not me the real Messiah.
It is clear that Yeshu did not fulfill any of the messianic .prophesies .
YWSHU DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war any more.” (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that yeshu fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that YESHU will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
Yeshu was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Yeshu appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that yeshu was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David!
The Catholic Church’s Response
to Our Critique of Christian Credibility
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), “He does not observe Shabbat!”
ANSWERS TO A PASTOR
Is christanity Idolatry
@ Edgar G.:
Herod’s Temple. Off the top of my head, the references are:
Matt.24
[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
The Second Temple was not much to look at; but Jesus’ disciples were “showing off” their (Herod’s) temple, because of its magnificent buildings and great stones.
This incident was cross-referenced in Mark:
Mark.13
[1] And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
also,
Mark.15
[29] And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
In Luke, likewise,
Luke.21
[5] And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
John speaks about the actual renovation work Herod had done:
John.2
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
The temple in Jesus’ time was clearly Herod’s magnifficent structure, as opposed to Ezra’s temple:
Ezra 3:
[10] And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD, they set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the LORD, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.
[11] And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the LORD; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the LORD, because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid.
[12] But many of the priests and Levites and chief of the fathers, who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice; and many shouted aloud for joy:
[13] So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was heard afar off.
@ Michael S:
I forgot to ask where in the NT are there mentions of Herod’s being the 3rd Temple??.
As for Joel I kept out of that….. To try to date some of the more obscure prophets is a hopeless task. You can find 50 different, equally convincing expert analyses…. and likely none of them the correct one. There are several prophets that actually overlap in time, although they don’t seem to have had any knowledge of one another…which to me…seems strange. and not logical. .
@ Michael S:
Yes that’s exactly what I said….but you’re using it out of context, as I’m sure you know.. I wasn’t talking about present claims by Arabs who sifted into Jerusalem from the Eastern Desert originally in the 7th century ..
(according to the archaeologists..they were not from Hejaz. We know that at that time there were TWO caliphs..the other was in Mecca, and there was a Civil War which the Meccans lost, so they amalgamated. …it seems that there were “Arabs” all over that area in the deserts outside the established states during that period),, Now I’ll read the main part of your post with interest..hang on…
I see that you regard Herod’s Temple as the third not the second….which is very gratifying to me. I think only you and I seem to accept this, which is strange because the facts are plain to read. Zerubavel/Nehemiah/Ezra built the Second Temple about 400 years before Herod came along..
I don’t think that it says anywhere that the building must be done by Kohanim…. in fact I don’t know if they are allowed to. The three Temples were built by workmen, special builders (some from Tyre for Solomon’s) and others…and the Kohanim mainly officiated.. Perhaps another poster will have more knowledge about this.
As for the red heifer I think the origin of the symbolism of this has been lost over time…if it ever was known at all… I’ve read there are those (loonies) in several parts of America and likely other places too, frantically trying to produce one. I don’t see what difference it makes, but it seems to be a very important item.
Maybe the original animal sacrificed in the desert Tent Tabernacle or Solomon’s edifice was a red heifer… But….if it was, I highly doubt that it was completely red all over, . It was likely red enough to be described as “red” and has since become an article of faith…. that it must be without a single non-red hair…. so to speak.
I’ve just been trying to look it up, and it seems that there isn’t a single reference to a red heifer anywhere in the TaNaKh; that it is a “tradition” that the sages concocted from the verse “though your sins be red as scarlet, I will purify them as white as snow.”
So the loonies believe that when a red heifer is found, it will automatically introduce the new and last Temple.. Presumably it will appear by magic.
Hello out there……. Does anyone know what the red heifer is all about other than what I’ve just written….???
I don’t understand your reference to “Boris”….. I ‘m in my “dumb” phase. so please explain..
@ Edgar G.:
Hi, Edgar.
Saying the Temple Mount, and anything pertaining to it, are “non-combative subjects”, is a bit of a stretch.
BTW, you commented to me above, about Herod’s Temple. I was aware of it, especially since the NT makes many references to it. I didn’t comment on it, though, because it wasn’t important in trying to establish the time that Joel was written. Opinion on that subject is generally confined to (1) the First Temple period and (2) the Second Temple period. I don’t know of any source that claims he prophesied during the “Third (Herod’s) Temple” period.
Concerning rebuilding Beit HaMikdash in our day, many religious people earnestly want to see it happen. There are conflicting references to it as existing (or not) in the coming years. Groups like the Temple Mount Faithful are eager to build it. I personally would like to see the Jews (particularly the Cohanim) rebuild it, because it would symbolize God’s sovereignty not over Israel, but over the universe.
Concerning the red heifer, it is up to the Cohens to decide how perfect the animal has to be. Realistically, if they WANT to build the temple, they’ll say the heifer is “good enough”; but if they DON’T want to build it, then a heifer translated from heaven itself will not be good enough.
I am waiting for Boris to become the chief rabbi: Boris Goodenough.
@ Bear Klein:
Bear..Understood..that’s O.K. It IS intriguing, and I’m also watching to see what happens. It would be a catastrophe for Israel if Shaked was no longer Justice Minister.. the very best and most stalwart-by far- that Israel has ever had.
When things die down a bit, I would still like your serious opinion -and that of others- about the Temple point. Also there s another niggling matter that I’ve been scratching away at for the past 50+ years…. the matter of “Hashmon”…who or what was he..?? There is no mention of him anywhere not in the TaNaCh..not even in the multitudes of learned Commentaries on EVERYTHING,…except in the Books of The Maccabees… as the founder of their family. And as they were a noted priestly family either the first of second course of priests, he should be mentioned in the existing records.
And the fact that the word itself means “exalted person” could mean that it is an error to creates this possibly fictional person….. that the exalted person was ether Matityahu himself, or Yochanan, HaCohen HaGadol.
So don’t forget…..when things ease off…here is something that a Sherlock Holmes would relish, to dig into. After all, it happened in historical times…
@ Edgar G.:
Edgar, this is not a subject I can make a worthy commentary on.
I am currently very interested that Naftali Bennett & Aylet Shaked have formed a new political party in Israel called the “New Right”
I am very curious and interested in what happens here and with the smallish Right Wing Parties that exist or barely exist now. Just one day or two into Israeli election season and there is to my knowledge four new parties and three new tickets (two parties running on one ticket Yaalon & Ganz).
@ Bear Klein:
Bear I was hoping for a reasoned comment on my opinion which actually seems pretty correct….to me. Why is Ezra’s Temple always passed over as if it never existed. Is it because the Jews then were so dazzled by Herod’s magnificent structure.?? Even though a murderer and despot, he was a supreme builder.
Sayings have come down to us such as “You have never seen a building until you’ve seen Hordus’s Temple”…(paraphrased)….
Here we have a perfectly non-combative subject, of actual historical interest (a dating and naming quagmire actually) and nobody is interested in taking a break from Trump frenzy.
@ Edgar G.:
It wouldn’t be me without a glaring typo. ..Of course I meant (please note not “rein”)
@ Bear Klein:
Fist find an unblemished red heifer.
@ honeybee:
No too busy trying to figure out if Israel should build a Third Temple, if Edgar is counting it would be a fourth. Then Bears and counting temples is sort of new math!
@ Bear Klein:
What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can’t find a garbage can to keep you busy???
@ honeybee:
Honeybee said:
We should debate that!!
Edgar G. Said:
And endlessly arguing of obscure points that barely matter.
@ Michael S:
When you say “Second Temple” you really mean -after the beginning of Herod’s reign- (please note, NOT “reign”) The Third Temple. There were actually three, which is a fact that has always been overlooked. The first was Solomon’s Temple, the second was Ezra’s Temple (presumed ?) the third was Herod’s Temple, which was built on Ezra’s almost ruined small and unsuitable building.
Ezra had a shortage of quality materials, expert workmen, and all the problems that came with his comparatively few followers, trying to restore the true faith, combined with the depredations of the Samaritans from time to time who had become far more powerful under Sanballat and others.. History is VERY vague and contradictory, as to actually confirmed dates, with stark differences by a variety of highly respected commentators, like for instance Ibn Ezra and Maimonides, but it seems that Zerubavel a Royal Prince, came first with Joshua the High Priest, then a little later Nehemiah, who rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem against much outside opposition and interference, and then about 12 years later, Ezra, who continued the rebuilding of the Temple which had been abandoned because of untrue tale-bearing to the Persian king.
But Herod’s Temple was just about a NEW building from the bedrock-in most cases- up. So it should be rightly the THIRD TEMPLE
My opinion only.
@ Laura:
“I’m not from Texas. Actually I’m from the very blue state of NJ.”
My deepest sympathies for your “blue state” misfortune. Even in New Jersey, however, there are some “rosy” places (most of the state, actually):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/2016_NJ_presidential_results_by_muni_graduated.svg/240px-2016_NJ_presidential_results_by_muni_graduated.svg.png
@ Michael S:
I’m not from Texas. Actually I’m from the very blue state of NJ.
@ honeybee:
He was not exactly a Jew, but had Jewish inclinations and habits…For instance he stuck his nose into everybody’s business whilst his own was going Mechulla…..Typical Jewish behaviour,….
@ Michael S:
Never never doubt Yamit 82. He is an extinguished know it all
@ yamit82:
Hi, Yamit.
I was pleasantly surprized, to see you citing Joel 3:9-12 (or 4:9-12, according to Rabbi Scherman’s edition).
I have been studying “end times” prophesies for some time, but have focused on Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah, all of whom prophesied during the early Babylonian Exile period. Prophets from shortly before this period (through Jeremiah) warned the remnant of Israel of the impending destruction of the First Temple and accompanying exile. I know many consider parts of Joel as pertaining to the “last days”; but I have avoided these because I was unsure about when he prophesied.
Upon re-examining the book, I see the reference:
3/4:19:Egypt will become a desolation and Edom will become desolate wilderness; because of the robbery of the children of Judah, for they shed innocent blood in their land.
I don’t know about any time before 600 BCE, when the Edomites were able to rob and kill Jews inside Judah, unless this refers to rebellions of Edom against Jewish rule under the Davidic kings. In those instances, however, Edom could not be imagined as a “horde of locusts”. That apellation seems to apply better to the Babylonian invasion that led to the destruction of the First Temple.
I will tentatively assign Joel to no sooner than 600-586 BCE, the final days of the Babylonian conquest of Judea — i.e. roughly contemporary to Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. The last two of these prophesied a lot about the “end times”: to give the Jewish people an assurance that not only would He restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem; but ultimately he would avenge them on all their (“locust”) enemies. References to the extant Temple and priesthood, therefore, probably referred to the Second Temple, 517 BCE to 70 CE. If you accept the common dating of the Book of Acts, moreover, in which Joel is quoted, and the fact that the prophet is not mentioned in the gospels, this reduces to 517 BCE to 30 CE — making Joel possibly contemporary with Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi, half of whom made predictions concerning the “end times”.
I just noticed how closely Joel 3/4 parallels Zechariah 14:
Joel 3/4:
1. For behold, in those days and at that time, when I will bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2. I will gather all of the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehosaphat and I will contend with them there concerning My people and My possession, Israel, thtat they dispersed among the nations, and they divided up My land,
3. and they cast lots upon my people; they gave boys for harlot’s [fee]m and they sold girls for wine and drank [it].
Zechariah 14:
1. Behold, a day is coming for HASHEM, when your spoils will be divided up in your midst.
2. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem for war; the city will be captured, the howses will be pillaged and the women will be violated; half of the city will go out into exile, but the rest of the people will not be eliminated from the city.
In both cases, the attack on Jerusalem is followed by a Jewish rally that culminates in the destruction of the existing World Order (In Zechariah, a nuclear exchange is graphically described).
I want to be clear, that when I talk about Ezekiel 38-39, the attack on Israel by Erdogan (“Gog”) of Turkey (“Magog”), I am not referring to the Zech. 14 and Joel 3/4 battle. Erdogan will not come with “all the nations of the world”. He will just have a few allies, the principle one being Iran. He will be roundly defeated, and Israel will “burn his weapons for seven years”:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/HEMTT_Wrecker_and_Cargo.jpg/800px-HEMTT_Wrecker_and_Cargo.jpg
https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/facility/siemens_pwr_neckar_2.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Turkish_air_force_transall_c-160d_landing_arp.jpg
@ Edgar G.:
To much iron in his system. McGrew was a Jew?
@ Edgar G.:
Yes they do , but never when accompanied by a Lady. Sorry popping a chicken must run
@ honeybee:
Good ol’Dan…He’s the fellow who had barbed wire on his chest… and chewed 10-penny nails for breakfast….but eventually he “bit the dust”…The Dark Stranger was too much for him…. I recall sitting kaddish …..
@ honeybee:
That’s not fair… I could take a page from Churchill’s book when responding to Attlee being referred to as a “modest man”…..Churchill retorted…”Yes and he has a lot to be modest about”…
But I won’t… I never take advantage of a lady….even a Texas lady…
Say…….is it true that the men wear their boots and spurs in bed. I saw that several times in the old days in Buck Jones and Ken Maynard films. Tex Ritter too…
@ Edgar G.:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45082/the-shooting-of-dan-mcgrew
@ honeybee:
Yes it was “whoopee galore” all ’round ……loads of amanita muscara which the wives prepared in sandwiches, (crusts cut off) with a little lettuce and charoset dip….Lovely.
Far better than Eddie Cantor’s effort…..
@ Edgar G.:
@ Edgar G.:
Show off
@ Michael S:
Apologies for this little intrusion…you said “issue in a new Caliphate” …maybe you mean “usher in”…you know like “usher..a la the famous Bishop Usher, who dated the Bible from Creation (-4004) in the margins of the best bibles…….of course he was medically mad and locked away…poor fellow. Perhaps that’s the way that Erdogan is going…eventually.
@ Edgar G.:
What a whoop?
@ Michael S:
I think it was around minus 507 just after Yom Kipur…when he went to the usual party and began whooping it up with the boys..
yamit82 Said:
I thought you were there
@ Michael S:
The dating of the entire book of Joel is uncertain. Joel chapters 1-2 prophesy about a plague of locusts that would come upon the land and urge the people to pray and repent. It is not clear if this refers to an actual plague or is a metaphor for an anticipated invasion of Judah.
Laura Said:
He said ” We have given Israel $4.8 billion and Israel can take care of its self” He forgot to mention that America also gives most of Israel’s enemies $$$ billions as well.
I support Trump but never have trusted him.
@ yamit82:
Hi, Yamit.
Do you have any idea when Joel prophecied? The date is very unclear, relative to the other prophets.