by Uzay Bulut, GATESTONE • October 5, 2022
The Republic of Cyprus, 36% of which is illegally occupied by Turkey, is increasingly struggling with a massive wave of illegal migration from Turkey, the Middle East and Africa. Migrants from Syria stand outside a kiosk in the village of Chlorakas, Cyprus, on January 31, 2022. Migrants now make up make up one-quarter the village’s residents. (Photo by Christina Assi/AFP via Getty Images)
- The Cypriot government says that Turkey is orchestrating this illegal immigration crisis, as most migrants coming to Cyprus travel from Turkey. They reportedly fly from Istanbul or Ankara to the Turkish-occupied north of Cyprus, are then smuggled to the free, southern part of the Republic of Cyprus, and from there, under EU law, can apply for asylum.
- On September 11 of this year, the EU recognized the instrumentalization or “weaponization” of migration by Turkey….
- In 1974, Turkey invaded the Republic of Cyprus and forcibly displaced the indigenous Greek Cypriots from the north in a violent ethnic cleansing campaign, accompanied by murders, rapes, forced disappearances and other atrocities.
- Since then, Turkey has implemented policies meant to erase the Hellenic identity and civilization of occupied northern Cyprus.
- More financial support or migrant housing centers are not the solution to the illegal immigration crisis in Cyprus. The unending number of illegal migrants are apparently intended to outnumber and replace the indigenous Cypriots. Cyprus suffers from both illegal Turkish occupation and the mass illegal migration.
- “This year… We had 4,250 births so far, as opposed to 12,000 migrant arrivals. This is not happening anywhere else in the European Union.” — Costas Constantinou, director general of Cypriot Interior Ministry, Cyprus Mail, July 5, 2022.
- What the Republic of Cyprus appears to need is an end to the illegal Turkish military occupation and an end to the EU’s appeasement of Turkey.
- “Turkey, which illegally occupies one third of our country, is exploiting immigration to change the demography of the island for political purposes…. Many argue that the time has come when the Cypriot government should follow the example of Denmark, Poland, Greece or Hungary to stop this ongoing nightmare.” — Savvas Iacovides, veteran Cypriot journalist, to Gatestone, September 2022.
The Republic of Cyprus, 36% of which is illegally occupied by Turkey, is increasingly struggling with a massive wave of illegal migration from Turkey, the Middle East and Africa.<
>
Cyprus now has the highest number of asylum applications per capita of any EU country. Nearly 5% of the island population, according to the country’s officials, is now made up of asylum seekers.
The Cypriot government says that Turkey is orchestrating this illegal immigration crisis, as most migrants coming to Cyprus travel from Turkey. They reportedly fly from Istanbul or Ankara to the Turkish-occupied north of Cyprus, are then smuggled to the free, southern part of the Republic of Cyprus, and from there, under EU law, can apply for asylum.
Since 2018, Cyprus has experienced a large increase in the number of people illegally arriving in the country and then applying for asylum.
@ketzel
Shevchenko was a famous Ukrainian poet and also an artist.
He was drafted into the Russian army (for something that the government considered subversive, this also included a couple of poems which allegedly insulted the royal family), and eventually released.
He wasn’t repeatedly arrested for writing poetry in Ukrainian, and he was even made an “academician” for his engravings.
At any rate, I think there is nothing else left for us to discuss on this thread.
@Reader
I don’t know if this war is ultimately about expanding territory by the Anglosphere, because my take on it, from what the bad guys say (Schwab, Harari, Gates) is that this is more of a war of extermination and enslavement of all nations. Creating a new human by manipulating the human genome with vax and implants.
As for Ukraine, it’s true they’re a new state, but they’ve been a state longer than Israel, so that’s good enough. Also, when I was there, I noticed so many things like streets and parks were named after someone named Shevchenko. He was obviously so important to Ukrainians, I had to look him up. He was a 19th century literary figure who was the first to publish literature in Ukrainian. Since only Russian could be used for official literature, the Russian Tsar imprisoned him repeatedly. So he was a famous martyr to Ukrainian nationalism, which, whatever anyone thinks of it, it’s clear that in Ukraine, he is revered. This is an important data point.
You can tell so much about what’s important to people by what they name streets after. An amusing touristic detail: when I went to Serbia, I was startled that so many places were named after Gavrilo Princip, the assassin who sparked WWI. The Serbs love this guy! Okay, why not. So Shevchenko is like that. In the Ukrainian mind, he represents the emergence of their nation, language and literature. So it would be like Europeans dismissing American nationalism by saying, oh, you are just English people with no culture of your own. And they do say that. My blood pressure just went up. This is how Ukrainians must feel when Putin denies their uniqueness.
@ketzel2
The article that I posted about the Heartland theory isn’t a very good one but it gives somewhat of an idea about the theory.
I have to mention that at the time the Crimean war was fought (or at any time previously), there was no country named Ukraine.
Also, it has to say there “alliance”, not “allegiance” (I am not going to spell check the whole thing).
@ketzel2
In my opinion, the West is replaying WWII, except in WWII the Uebermenschen risked their own lives to kill the Untermenschen, and in this one the Untermenschen are killing each other and the Uebermenschen are eating popcorn and watching the slaughter on their TVs.
The idea is to conquer Eurasia, and then the Anglos will own the whole world.
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-mackinders-heartland-theory-4068393
@Edgar
I’m not a scientist, but I read many alternative pundits on Substack, especially eugyppius, Steve Kirsch, really too many to name, once you read one, you end up subscribing to 20 of them, it’s an echo chamber, but in addition to the scientific studies those people explain, there is also the news of young people dropping dead all the time. Before the vax, every year 1 or 2 high school football players would die, and it was found that they had an undiagnosed heart condtion. Now every day pro athletes are dropping dead. The difference is that these people didn’t have heart conditions. In order to be on a pro team, they had to be insured and tested frequently. It’s the deaths that convinced me I was right, but I was always suspicious because of the hysterical way it was presented. And I’d already seen the same hysteria about other hoaxes, so I knew to stay out of it. As someone who doesn’t understand the science in detail, I’d say whatever is in the vax is causing clots in every organ. Alternative doctors claim the vax damages the immune system, so cancer comes back aggressively and kills people quickly, even if they had been cured for years. New cancers in young people too. And infertility, miscarriages, etc. The alternative doctors have good credentials, they’re not weirdos selling snake oil, while Fauci and his gang actually contradict themselves constantly and say ridiculous things all the time. Masks work, they don’t work, they work. Every week a new lie. And I knew Fauci had done the same thing with AIDS. And of course there’s the political stuff, Fauci and others flying to Wuhan and funding gain of function research. As a non-scientist, I understand this to mean, taking a pathogen that occurs in nature and weaponizing it against humans. This is known, not a conspiracy theory.
These authoritarians are so insane about getting people to take their bogus tests that Air France risked a breach of contract suit in order to pressure me to take their silly test. Their stated policy was that if the destination country (Mexico) didn’t require a test, one could board the plane without a test. But they tried to scare me into taking a test. This is the bad faith and desperation I saw all along, that’s the main reason I refused to play. And the Ukraine war is so similar. It’s a play, I think my experience with the Covid hoax helped me understand the Ukraine hoax.
Some people think Putin is a good guy, some people think Zelensky is a good guy, some people think Fauci is a good guy. This is what I have to deal with from normies.
@READER-,
I appreciate your response, and you are mostly correct, but in one item, I beg to differ. Yes, when Russia moved into Eastern Europe it acquired many Jews, but there were already Jews in the Moscow area at least since the 14-15th cent or so. And in the rest of Russia as it expanded south, ALL kinds of Jews, who were different as their regions were different.
I read in WIKI that European Russia had Jews there from the 7th cent. In Kiev and area from 11-12th cent/s already in a kind of Ghetto.
The Wiki History of the Jews in Russia is actually eye-opening. Where my dear father came from was at one time a temporary home for one of the Bonaparte family.
As a side-note I have a feeling that although eventually Ashkenazi, my family had some Sephardic mixture somewhere. Which reminds me, On of my daughters had a genetic profile done. I must ask her exactly what the components are.
In fact, since the Roman Dispersion there is hardly anywhere, except the polar regions where Jews have not been. They may not be there now but they WERE.
My dear father was born in the Pale of Settlement, (Latvia) had his eardrum irrevocably damaged to avoid the 25 year (some say 40) conscription of Jews whilst still children to dump into military academies.
He was one of the “look-outs” on thre shtetl outskirts to warn against “Kossaken”…..as they called them.
The vast majority of kidnapped kids was lost to Judaism as they rarely recalled where they were from. (Ben Gurion was one who DID, and returned home).
@Edgar
Just a note:
Russia didn’t have a significant Jewish population until it acquired some new lands in the West and the South and established the Pale of Settlement there in 1791, so while Russia held no love for Jews, to say the least (it never wanted any Jewish immigration into Russia proper), it was not persecuting Jews from “time immemorial”.
However, the expression “from time immemorial” can certainly be applied to the “civilized” West where, indeed, the innumerable attempts to abuse, murder, and even totally exterminate the Jews have been documented.
Besides, the Russian tsars (the Romanoffs) weren’t really Russian – they were the closest blood relatives of the British royal family (that’s why the poor tsarevitch Alexey, the son of Nicholas II suffered from hemophilia), so you might say that the Russian persecution of the Jews in the 19th (especially) century had Western roots also.
@KETZEL2-
I agree that the COVID danger was Vastly Overplayed to the point of it being regarded as a hoax. I myself refused any mRNA vaccine, but decided, because I am old,
(and have young grandchildren at school where they’ve picked it up a few times already- as has my daughter , their mother)
to eventually have one. I waited for NOVAVAX, protein based, a mwthod that has been successfully used for over 60 years, and this vaccine well human tested in India. Just had the second dose the other day, the first one about 4 months ago….no side effects.
(my first needle jab since a bad experience as a child)
I’d like your take as to the cause of the reported “over-death”, of 17 millions, which you may have seen. It certainly seems reputable and authentic, considering the “reporters”
As for Russia-Ukraine etc. I’m a first generation from the shtetel, and my family had to smuggle itself from Niyra (Jaunjelgava) to Hamburg with false documents, to get on a boat. It took years of planning.
@Edgar
I totally agree that both Russia and Ukraine are Jew haters, see the comments on Russia Today and also the reason so many of us have grandparents from those countries. Even though I was pleasantly surprised to see so much Jewish life in Kyiv, that’s window dressing of course.
However, if I hadn’t noticed in early 2020 how fake the Covid narrative was, I would almost certainly have accepted a vax and PCR tests in order to continue my lifestyle as a freewheeling digital nomad. Instead, my analysis of current events at that time led me to accept that I had to leave Europe ASAP in order to avoid the poison. I was almost prevented from getting on my flight because I refused a PCR test; Air France caved because I told them, oh well, I’ll just live at the airport, then they gave me my boarding pass.
We ignore the nuclear games at our peril. It’s a hoax with real bombs. Just as individual skeptics finally broke the Covid truth, we can influence our congresswhores to stop arming Ukraine. This is what discussion is for. I can’t do it myself, but we are billions vs. thousands, and we will restore sanity, but only if we discuss. Ukraine is part of the discussion, like it or not.
Cretins.
@KETZEL2-
Under normal circumstances I’d agree with you, say if it were 50 years ago, when “spin” and obfuscation were not considered normal. But today, NO…!!
As I was just going to remark to PELONI, the point I make is that the uselessness of all our cartwheeling around a hub of nothing, is that next week, maybe sooner or later, a NEW piece of info will emerge showing that all we thought was emet, was fake, and a NEW scenario is “de rigeur”…feeding a new cartwheeling-perhaps in the opposite direction, ,, that is, until another direction emerges.
We rarely stop to think of how far we’ve come from our original perceptions. But…the undisputable facts, as far as I am concerned, are both countries have been inveterate Jew haters and persecutors from time immemorial. (as Joan Peters once said)
So, whilst the to-and-fro, hit-and-take are amusing, they are of no consequence to anything.
Just my opinion.
There is a point to discussing these issues, even if we can’t do anything about them. IMO, this is a fake war, and part of the elite scum’s plan to turn us into slaves. The playbook is the same everywhere. So discussing details helps us resist the threats in our own lives we can control.
For instance, it has leaked out that Russia is mandating Covid vax for troops and their families. The vax are as toxic as the ones in our countries. From that and other info, we can deduce that Putin isn’t the man on the white horse some still want him to be. Is this not useful?
It’s very important to discuss the real purpose of referenda. Sometimes it goes along with migration from 3d to 1st world. Does this not enable the takeover by Islam almost everywhere? No accident. It is extremely relevant to Israel.
Does anyone wonder why we are now looking at nuclear war? What a coincidence, that our heroes Putin and Zelensky, with an assist by Biden, have put this on the front burner, now that so many people are bored with Covid. It’s extremely important to see the similarity of all parties’ playbook, and understand that the fake war, the nuclear threat, the vax, etc. are all part of the big playbook. It’s important to learn details about Eastern European history, but this or that data point in no way excuses any party, because they are all working for the same goal, the enslavement of most people in the world.
@Edgar
Wouldn’t it be great if world peace could be solved on a blog? LOL.
I really don’t know why you guys are “”dreying your kops over Russia and Ukraine. Like cats chasing their tails. They”ve always been Jew-haters, and persecutors, deserve each other.
Russia invaded Ukraine for its own reasons. There is the EU , NATO, The US and other associated Organisations to deal with aggressive nations.
Nothing that anyone on THIS site can do, will make one dust mote of difference. But I must admit, ….it takes up lots of screen space,
And it gives some, an opportunity to “misunderstand’, pick an argument -and get vicarious satisfaction from it.
@peloni
My reasoning wasn’t “based on some illogical thread of logic”.
Your argument was that the Ukrainian Nazis are very different than the German Nazis, and Zelensky is Jewish, and Kolomoisky supports them and he is Jewish, etc.
So what?!
I don’t think that when a Jew happens to do, or support, or deal with evil it gives the evil a seal of approval and makes it milder.
I am not accusing you of anything, I just think that when someone espouses an evil philosophy, gives Hitler salutes, and wears swastikas, the nuances and differences between different sects don’t matter, that’s all, and Jews should, at least, stay away from these people if only not to give rise to more antisemitism.
BTW, neither Zelensky, nor Kolomoisky may be considered good or even decent people.
@Reader
I don’t know why you insist on doing these sort of things, inventing controversy where there is none. I never said this, I didn’t imply it, and I don’t support it. Hence, the straw man you stood up would be your own statement here, not my own. Seriously, no leap of logic could suggest to you or any rational individual that I believe your assertion quoted here is true, reasonable or even acceptable, simply because I explained the association between Kolomoisky and the Nazi in Ukraine. Consequently, please do not extrapolate my thoughts using your ‘logical’ deductions in future, as it takes you places I would never think of going.
I do have more to discuss with you on other matters you mentioned below, but I was driving when I saw your latest post and felt I should take the time to respond before anyone took an inference of your words to reflect my own values. So I will chat more with you later on things you DID say, rather than discuss what you didn’t based on some illogical thread of logic as seems to be your inclination at present.
@peloni
Yes, I read what you wrote.
Yes, and I took your rationale to its logical conclusion – that as long as evil people don’t touch the Jews, whatever evil they are doing is OK with the Jews, and the Jews may even collaborate with this kind of evil and take part in it as long as it doesn’t affect them.
That’s what your “nuanced” explanation boils down to.
Antisemitism is not the only evil thing in the world.
@ketzel2
Fair question, but it goes back to what I noted before about there being Nazis on street corners within every Eastern European nation, and elsewhere as well. For my own part, I am happy to call out nazis whereever they might be roosting. They have a vile ideology, which is forced upon the masses using political violence as their advantage over the more mainstream supported parties. I do know that the Finnish Nazis actually made their way into the govt at some point, but they did so thru political means, ie they did not overthow the govt and gain access to the heights of power due to the threat of violence and the occupation of the parlaiment building, all while in coordination with a foreign power. Furthermore, the Finnish Nazis did not come to wage war upon the minority elements of the state from within the govt, using sanctioned warfare, ie tanks, artillery and air raids. I would suggest that this is the difference between Finland and Ukraine regarding their respective Nazi problem.
Regarding Kassam’s tweet, for it to be true, we would have to accept that the sockpuppet is pulling his own strings, when he isn’t even writing his own cue cards. He is a deck short of having a playing hand and far bit further from providing even an incoherent policy statement. In short, he is not making policy, so the idea of blackmail is a rather weak tea thought, to my mind at least. Furthermore, everyone knows the dirt on Barisma, the timing with the coup, the coordinated firing of the Prosecuter General Shokin, and the statements by Biden to Poroshenko which were released sometime in the past two years as I recall. Biden is untouchable because he doesn’t need a voting electorate to vote for him, as he has the administrative state and the voting machines. But as I noted before, he isn’t even making the policy calls so the threat of blackmail is irrelevant as I see things.
I have more to add on your previous comment to Reader, but I will add that later.
@Reader
You have not read my statement or have mistook its meaning as nothing you wrote is responsive to my words. ketzel2 asked a simple question which bears a greater response than ‘they are evil’, though I did not correct you, and actually supported your statement that they are indeed evil, I explained the rationale behind why the Ukrainian Nazis are not more alike to their 1940 German role models.
@ketzel2
@peloni
You mean you can tell just by looking?
What both of you are saying, then is “The Nazis are evil but we, Jews, are kind of OK with that as long as they don’t slaughter Jews, as long as they use the Jews to advance their [Nazis] cause (being kind enough to take the “dirty” Jewish money), and show tolerance to the Jews as a minority.”
I am just following the logic here:
1) The German Nazi ideology rested on the concept of Uebermenschen (Germans, Anglos, the natives of the Nordic countries, etc.) vs. Untermenschen (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, etc., also the mentally ill, incurably ill, crippled, etc.);
2) the goal was to exterminate as many Untermenschen as possible (with the Jews at 100% while making some of the rest into slaves of the Higher Race) in order to make space and excellent living conditions for the Uebermenschen to grow and develop and to take over the whole world;
3) Many of these ideas were successfully implemented, such as the euthanasia of the “unworthy of life” in Germany, the extermination of most of the European Jewish population, using the Slavs as slave labor, literally starving millions of the Soviet POWs to death, murdering millions of civilians on the occupied territories, etc., and last but not least, creating a totalitarian regime in Germany itself with total surveillance and the camps and death penalty for those who refused to obey;
4) Now, let’s imagine that all of the above happened except that the Nazis had never thought of persecuting the Jews and had decided to treat them equally.
Would the Jews, then, collaborate with the rest of the Nazi program?
What if the Nazis declared that the Jews are the exception – that they are also Uebermenschen, same as the “ethnic” Germans?
Would that make the Nazi program acceptable for the Jews and worthy of following along or, at least, of watching silently, continuing with their lives as though nothing much was happening?
I am starting to think that maybe we escaped this horrible choice because of the persecution, because it is better to be the victim than the victimizer, especially of the Nazi kind.
God sure knows what he is doing.
@Peloni
I hope I haven’t given the impression that I give Ukraine a pass, it’s more, regardless of the details, some of which I’ve known for a while, the history re Bandera and all, I think there’s a double standard wrt Ukraine, which is self serving on the part of the rest of Europe, which has the same evil history and has not been as denazified as they pretend. But I’m up for more info on this, even though the principle is the same. BTW, my own grandfather was born in Kyiv, and even though he died before I was born, I can guess why he and my other 3 grandparents immigrated to the USA, and those same conditions exist in Ukraine now. However, I don’t think Ukraine is unique in its antisemitism. Didn’t Finland have a similar history wrt Nazis, i.e., they made common cause with Nazis because of resistance to Communism, not antisemitism per se. It’s complicated. Why does no one call out Finland and constantly say Finnish Nazis? Because the ruling class isn’t making a bunch of money from fighting Finland.
Somewhat OT but related: An interesting tweet I read last night from Raheem Kassam: he tweeted that Zelensky may be blackmailing Biden about his family’s corrupt activity in Ukraine, Burisma and all. Wow, this explains a lot if true! So one way to end the war and prevent it going nuclear would be to impeach Biden. Even Kamala Harris is better, because she has no history in Ukraine and can’t be blackmailed for billions.
@ketzel2
My compliments and congradulations on having the sense and fortitude to follow your intuition and withstand the pressures to partake of the toxic jab – and I mean that most sincerely.
You raise some very important topics here, not a new thing for you to be honest, which bear consideration. I’ll tackle the Jewish-Ukraine Nazi issue first.
Reader isn’t wrong when he wrote that Evil is Evil, but such generalities do not answer the question you raised as the truth is also a good bit more nuanced than this statement reveals, and within the nuances lies the answer for the compelling question you raised. The Ukrainian Nazi’s are devout racists, they believe in pursuing racial purity and ending the corruption of the white race, and all the rest of the regular mantra for which the Nazi’s are well known including the regular use of political violence and the hatred of minorities and Jews, but there is a distinction to be made regarding the Ukrainian Nazis.
The Ukrainian Nazis hate Russians, they hate Poles and they hate Jews, with reducing intensity in that order. This was true of the Bandera Nazi’s of the 1940’s as it is true of the Biletsky Nazi’s of the 2010’s. They are willing to make accommodations to see that their aims are ultimately fulfilled, but only while gaining some benefit while doing so. Bearing this in mind, it should be noted that Kolimoisky financed the Maidan Revolution, in part at least, and in part or whole aided in the financing of the Azov and other Battalions. In return for his aiding the Nationalists, Kolomoisky ultimately was awarded the governorship over the Dnipro Oblast, once the Azov and the other far right battalions were formed and pushed the separatists back. Following this, the Azov, Dnipro and other battalion were employed by Kolomoisky as his personal brute squad, while also fighting the Dombassers. The fact that Azov was providing such protections to Kolomoisky was noted as being a point of contention by some of the Azov members as reported by Oleh Odnorozhenko. The point here being that the Nazi’s had come to an accommodation with the leader of the Jewish community in Ukraine.
And yes, this is the same Kolomoisky who brought (bought) Hunter Biden to work for Burisma just 6wks after the Maidan Coup, the same one who was involved with the PrivatBank steeling billions of USAID grant money and the same one who also financed Zelenksy, both before and after he entered the political race in 2019.
It should be noted that since the fall of the Soviet Union, 90% of the Jews of Ukraine have migrated (fled) their native lands, and this mass migration is not likely to have been due to a lack of motivation by their surroundings. You are likely also aware of the Simon Wisenthal’s warnings about the wide use of revisionism in Ukraine as recently as 2018 when they made the WWII Ukrainian Nazi Stepan Bandera’s birthday a national holiday.
I’ll have more to share on the other poignant points you raised including Abkazia in another post later today or tomorrow.
@Reader, you seem to add something extra to everything you read. Maybe you should be an obnoxious fake tv shrink like Dr. Phil. Please do not reply to anything I write on this board in the future, and I will do the same.
@ketzel2
Abkhazians are now 50% of the population there, the rest are Georgians, Armenians, and Russians, before the split there were 3 times as many Georgians as Abkhazians, and both sides used violence during the conflict in 1992-93.
The state languages are Abkhazian and Georgian, Russian language has a status of official, all the minorities are free to use their languages (unlike in Ukraine).
Can you make up your mind about what you really detest – small peoples trying to get independence and sovereignty OR the large peoples ethnically cleansing the smaller peoples?
It looks to me that you actually detest Russia and everything Russia does, no matter what it happens to be.
Would it make you feel better if it was the US who helped Abkhazia to become independent from Georgia?
@peloni
I didn’t say the languages are not distinct, however, they are very similar – 7 words out of 10 overlap with some differences in pronunciation, and Russian is spoken by most of the population in each country.
And when was that?
There was ONE original language many centuries ago and then it split into several languages, also centuries ago.
Ukrainian has many dialects, especially in the Western part of it where there is a strong Polish, Hungarian, and Romanian influence, in fact, there are whole Hungarian-speaking villages there.
The Orthodox Christian prayer books are in Old Slavonic, also known as Church Slavonic.
The alphabets are practically the same except for several letters – they are all cyrillic alphabets.
@Reader
Yes indeed, Abkhazia became pro-Russian after Russia helped ethnic Abkhazians murder and ethnically cleanse the Georgians who lived there. Of course Abkhazia supported Russia ini 2008. The population had been replaced!
@Reader
Sorry but I completely disagree with this statement. The languages are distinct, and the alphabet is not even the same. There are some commonalities shared between the two, but when the Ukrainians began the process of creating their language, it was intended to be distinctly different, and this is why the language barrier is not a trivial point to either side.
@Reader, there is a huge difference between Ukrainians and Russians, also a huge difference in their languages. They are not the same people at all. A Russian who says Ukrainians are really Russian is being extremely disrespectful.
I do not hate Russians. I admire Russian culture. The Russian people are victims in this. I blame oligarchs in all the countries that are creating an unnecessary disaster.
Yes, I do make the distinction between Nazis who murder Jews in concentration camps and Nazis who take direction from a Jewish president, have concerts by Israeli pop stars, and let Jews live openly without interference. It’s not everything, but it’s something.
Forgot to mention, Putin has had more people whacked than H. Clinton. Wonder what he’s hiding, maybe that photo of him kissing a young boy’s stomach is a hint.
@ketzel2
I give up.
Your arguments are full of contradictions and you are too emotional.
You want to regard Putin as a monster and Ukraine as a useless piece of land that no one cares about which at the same time has most wonderful agricultural resources exceeding those of California, and to regard Russia as a land-hungry abuser of every ethnicity – FINE!
About “soft Nazism” – Nazism is Nazism, i.e., evil is evil.
For some reason, you think that the only bad thing about Nazism is its persecution of Jews, well, YOU ARE WRONG!
Of course, you, like a lot of other people were brought up to think that slaughtering the Jews was the only mistake the civilized German Nazis made, otherwise they were decent people who heroically fought on the eastern front to protect the civilized West from the Russian Communist Devil Horde – again, there is nothing I can do about these convictions of yours, either.
Remember one thing, though – if that Soviet Communist Devil Horde didn’t defeat Nazi Germany (and no, it wasn’t the US who did it, even though the US did win WWII) at the cost of 27 million of the Horde’s lives (military and civilian), we wouldn’t be arguing about anything right now because we wouldn’t be born since the civilized Western world would have solved the Jewish problem in the 1940s once and for all.
I don’t know what you want from Abkhazia (a tiny place with ~300,000 people) – they don’t want to belong to Georgia and in 2008 fought on the side of Russia.
I think they actually asked recently to become part of Russia but Russia refused.
P.S.
About “ethnic” Ukrainians.
It is almost as senseless to talk about ethnic Russians, ethnic Ukrainians, and ethnic Belorussians as it is to talk about ethnic Americans.
Taking into account some cultural differences and different admixtures from their closest neighbors, these peoples are pretty much the same and their languages are almost the same with the main differences being in pronunciation and about 20-30% of the vocabulary.
@Reader
2 things. One, before the fighting started, I was shocked at Putin’s statements erasing Ukraine’s identity. He sounded like an aggressive transsexual demanding the right to pee in the ladies room because transwomen are women. Ukrainians are Russian, that was Putin’s position. No boundaries whatsoever, a klepto trannicrat. Two, whoever occupies Ukraine not only has to rebuild it but also gets the vast farmlands and forests of the interior. Ukraine may be a political basketcase, but the agricultural abundance impressed even me, and I lived in California for 30 years and frequently went to the nearby wine country. Compared to the Ukrainian interior, Napa and Sonoma are a hobby garden. Anyone who controls Ukraine will not only never have a food shortage, but food will be so cheap, you’ll buy fresh organic berries on every street corner for less than a dollar a basket, and you’ll have gourmet restaurants in subway stations. Not a fantasy, that’s what I found in Kyiv in 2019.
Extra point I’ll just throw in here: I have conceded the point that there was a nazi coup in Ukraine. However, here is something that mitigates that. These are a different type of nazi. Jewish life goes on openly. I saw a guy operating a kosher hot dog stand in a tourist area in Kyiv. He was dressed in the traditional style, all black, payess and all. He had some traditionally dressed customers. No security guards. Could that guy operate his hot dog stand in Paris without a security guard? The only other place I’ve been where it would be completely safe and unremarkable would be Budapest. So, Budapest and Kyiv, haven for Jews.
Also, as bad as the Ukrainian government is, and I agree with everyone here, it’s bad…has Ukraine done as much damage to Israel as the supposedly denazified Germany and France?
My conclusion is that even though I’m willing to agree that there was a nazi coup, these function as soft nazis, and are nowhere near as toxic to actual Jews as the denazified countries of Western Europe, which are open enemies.
One more thing: I admit that I am not as familiar as I should be with the details of all this, as the MSM made it inaccessible, however, you don’t have to be an expert on the details to see the big picture. Example, I was one of the first people on this board, as well as one of the first people in the world, to understand that Covid and its vax were a scam. I am unvaxxed and have never had a PCR test, despite huge pressure. This was only from common sense and everyday observation. I have no science background and can’t tell you in detail how I know Covid and vax are scams, I just knew right away. This is an analogy for my position on Ukraine. Despite the holes in my knowledge of the history of this political conflict, I actually do know some common sense things, and I continue to be dismayed at the hero worship of Putin. Only time will cure some people of this.
Also: Russian occupation of Afghanistan. And how about Abkhazia? Why doesn’t anyone want to talk about Abkhazia? A small scale example of the Russian playbook. Don’t look, it makes Russia look bad. Makes all the Russia apologists sad.
@ketzel2
At first, (the 1990s) Russia completely trusted the West and voluntarily withdrew from all of the Eastern Europe, then it let all the former Soviet republics go their own way in spite of the fact that there was a referendum where even the Baltic states voted to keep the Union (~75% of their voters).
The above was done, basically, in exchange for a promise from the West “not to expand the NATO even one inch westward” – actually, there was no longer any need for NATO because Russia was now a friend of the West, and the Russians thought that now there is going to be peace on Earth and prosperity, etc.
All this happened while the former Soviet industry was being destroyed at the instigation of the West and privatized (the population suffered enormously from this at the time).
Then NATO started swallowing the countries of the former Eastern Bloc one by one, Russia started protesting but its protests and concerns were ignored with some of its former republics becoming NATO members thus encircling Russia with NATO military bases.
At the same time, the West was turning Ukraine into an anti-Russian state with Ukrainian culture increasingly being defined as incompatible with the Russian culture which culminated in the Maidan putsch of 2014.
Victoria Nuland came to Kiev and was filmed there handing out cookies to the protesters.
She proudly announced (I watched the video) that the US had spent 5 billion $$ on Ukraine to achieve this result.
The putsch put in power the political parties that had gained ~6% of the votes in the most recent Ukrainian elections and it destroyed the democratically elected government.
The East and South of Ukraine has since the 1990s consistently voted for the more pro-Russian politics and for retaining the Russian language as one of the languages of the country, and after the putsch the two areas of Donbass decided to declare autonomy within Ukraine.
In response, in April of 2014, the Ukrainian government started an “anti-terrorist operation against the separatists” which after 8 years claimed 14,000 civilian lives in these areas while Russia made absolutely no claims to this territory.
Finally, in 2021, the Ukrainian government started making noises about wishing to join NATO and even about wishing to re-aquire nuclear weapons, and Russia presented a draft of a security agreement to the West requesting, among other things, that Ukraine keep its neutrality and not join NATO.
This request was rejected in/by December of 2021and Ukraine prepared a force of 120,000 on the Russian border which was interpreted by Russia as getting ready for a final attack on Donbass.
Only then the “special operation” was declared by Russia to “denazify and demilitarize Ukraine”, and even then, the negotiations were started in Istanbul between Russia and Ukraine to come to an agreement to accommodate Russian demands.
Then Boris Johnson ordered Zelensky to stop the negotiations and keep fighting with the help of the West.
Only then Russia took the areas in the East and South of Ukraine under its control.
At this point, Ukraine, goaded by the West started a major campaign to “liberate” the areas which it has been shelling non-stop and asked for a speedy acceptance to become a NATO member, and Russia, seeing that this is a fight to the death, made the areas a part of Russia to untie its hands for their defense.
The more Russia is attacked (BTW, Ukraine has been shelling the villages IN RUSSIA along the border for months now victimizing the civilian population there), the stronger will be its response – at first, it just wanted an agreement, then it took some territories under its control, then it made them a part of Russia, it may end up taking the whole of Ukraine, if the situation requires it.
It is not really good for Russia because it will be stuck with rebuilding Ukraine and taking care of the whole of its messed up economy.
@Reader
I notice Russia is going after the entire eastern part of Ukraine, not just the two separatist states. So they don’t want more land? Will they give it back, then? No one was bombing the other parts, they were open to tourism.
When I say the two separatist parts are of no use to anyone, I mean, aside from coal and other resources, they probably didn’t register as places that most people had ever heard of. A couple of 3d worldish territories that outsiders never go to are not a good reason for any American to die.
I can see Americans and Europeans being concerned over Turkey’s incursions into Cyprus and Greece, because that’s Europe proper. No one has ever planned a vacation in Donetsk and Luhansk. I don’t like the principle of letting people vote themselves different borders, but these two places are obscure enough that they should have been handed over to klepto Russia to keep the peace.
What say you about Abkhazia? Does it remind you of what’s going on now? Some people discussing the current troubles have forgotten that Russia has a playbook.
Yes, there is collusion. Putin isn’t a knight on a horse, saving western civilization from banksters. He’s a corrupt oligarch himself. Let’s see if he keeps all the land and cuts off Ukraine from access to the Black Sea, which is an atrocity. Sometimes it takes actual events to show naive people who they’re supporting. I support no one in this, I think the corrupt warmongers should handle it themselves.
@ketzel2
Actually, both sides do not want WWIII, only one side does – the one who is replaying WWII now by more sophisticated means.
To say that Ukraine’s territory has no value to anyone – well, this leaves me speechless.
You mean collusion between Russia and the US?
That was the 1st thing I said when the “special operation” started but now I think that I was wrong.
When you (ketzel2) analyze the situation, you keep losing the history and the context of it, that’s why you are having such a hard time with it.
Ted, you said,
How not? This is what UN-convoluted is:
“I came. I bombed. I annexed.”
@Reader
If Russia has no greed for more land, its actions in Abkhazia make no sense. As I understand it, Russia started the ethnic grievance thing with a weak neighbor.
Also, both sides seem to want WWIII, for no reason. It’s all simply excessive, for a territory that has no value to anyone but the people who are unfortunate enough to live there. I suspect collusion between Russia and Ukraine. WWIII will usher in the plans of the globalists. If Putin didn’t play along, it wouldn’t happen. You or I or anyone from the local taco shop could negotiate this in one day.
Even little N. Korea is doing its part by firing a missile over Japan. What a coincidence.
@ketzel2
This is the British/Anglo colonial policy and it works this way not just to grab land but to avoid a war or a revolution on the colonizer’s territory – this is the main reason for the constant warmongering, divide-and-rule tactics (home and abroad), wars by proxy, etc.
Russia doesn’t know what to do with the territory it already has (almost the whole continent with 200 different ethnicities and an underdeveloped economy), it was literally forced into starting the military operation to neutralize Ukraine (to stop it from being the West’s battering ram).
@Peloni
I don’t have the understanding of this situation that you have, so I’m at a disadvantage. I do know that the contested areas of Ukraine are a s***hole that isn’t worth one American life. For me, that’s the main point.
Thanks again for the details. I followed this stuff during the color revolution, and I literally gave up, so much b.s. from both sides, I think most media on both sides really don’t want people to understand.
@ketzel2
To be honest, Russia has a strategic interest in Ukraine remaining under Russia’s sphere of influence, and like all great power states, they will do what is necessary to maintain their strategic interests. Despite this fact, though, Putin has specifically resisted, for many years, the disappointed demands by the Dombassers to come to their aid, and they expected it daily after Russia accepted Crimea into the Russian state.
Time and again, the leadership and the people of the Dombas were left abandoned by the Russian state, even as Russia acted as a luke-warm broker to secure the Minsk agreements. In fact, among the many reasons the Minsk agreements failed to move forward was that Russia refused to act as a party to the agreements, stating it was for the Ukrainians and the Ukrainian separatists to make what agreements needed to be made. Honestly, I can’t imagine the crestfallen hopes of the people of Dombas as Putin refused to fully support them, and this was both in the halls of diplomats and on the field of battle. There were in fact Russian citizens who crossed the border and fought with and for Dombas, just as Swedes and others traveled down to Yugoslavia to shoot Serbs back in 1999. Some of these Russians were relatives of the separatists, and some were mercenaries, but we know that the Russians crossing over into Dombas were not Russian troops as they were not armed with Russian munitions from the reports of NATO, which was quite anxious to find evidence to the contrary, and which is testified to by Jacques Baud, a Swiss Intelligence Officer who led the endeavor back in 2014.
It was only after the repeated threats of attack against Russia over 2021, along with a massive 120K+ NATO armed, trained and funded army massed along the border, that Russia responded. Even following the outbreak of hostilities, in April there was a negotiated settlement which held that Russia would withdraw back to their position on the Russian border. Though the settlement was later betrayed by the influence of Boris Johnson, it demonstrated the willingness of Russia to once again forgo possession of the land in Ukraine.
Consequently, I don’t believe the main reason here is that Russia wanted the land. Of course, honest men can have differing opinions, but these are my own thoughts, such as they are.
@Michael
So you say my reasoning is convoluted. How so?
The law is the law whether you like it or not. Whatever the legal issue, lawyers are there to argue both sides. What is important is that by passing this law, peoples who wish to take advantage of it have at a minimum a colour of right.
You misunderstand the sovereignty issue.
That clause was inserted to assure countries that were considering joining, that the UN would not undermine their sovereignty. That’s a far cry from saying that the UN pledged to defend their sovereignty.
@Peloni Thank you, that provides the context I asked for. The Nazi trope is repeated ad nauseum without the context you’ve provided, everywhere on otherwise legit conservative sites. Like nice people are supposed to jump up and bark every time someone says Ukrainian Nazis.
The Russian side is far from innocent, though. It seems to me that these ethnic minority rebellions are most likely to flare up when the territory is next to a powerful neighbor with a history of provoking fights to grab land. Turkey and Russia are like that. That’s why I’ve refused to take sides. Even if every word you wrote were the absolute truth about this situation, and I have no idea, because both sides do nothing but lie, but even if it’s true, Russia wants that land, that’s the main reason here. Just like Turkey wants N. Cyprus, the Aegean islands, and Batumi in Georgia.
@Ketzel
The issue in Ukraine isn’t about there being Nazis in the country, shouting on street corners as it were, as there are such radicals all over eastern Europe and elsewhere. Indeed, it should be noted that the Nazis in Russia and elsewhere have never conducted a coup on the govt, and forced their way into controlling the significant positions of power such as the State Prosecutor General or the equivalent of the NSA, but this did take place in Ukraine. No where else were radicals raised to power thru the use of political violence, election by mass murder as it were. No where else did such actions as these then lead to the election of future govts without the participation of the minority areas who were under siege by their govt, leading to a repetitive one sided election process. Additionally, the Ukrainian govt refused to allow the participation of those Ukrainian natives who had fled the ethnic violence to elsewhere in Europe. The consequence of this was to lead to the union of the Nazis and Nationalists ruling the roost without the participation litearlly millions of UR. Such benefits of political violence were self-reinforcing, and were among the many reasons why no settlement would ever be tolerated by the radicals in power or the army that supported them.
You might have missed my response to your question about the language issue last week. Here is the link for it (link). In short, it was a crisis of culture not language which led to the coup and then the rise of the radicals to power, including the Nazis, and this led to the attacks on the minorities. The rise of the Nazis power in Ukraine and the related role that the language issue played in Ukraine’s expanding crisis are each addressed in this linked response to your earlier comments. While I would suggest that you are incorrect to believe the Nazi issue was not a significant part of the crisis in Ukraine, I would suggest that you are quite correct that the language issue was not the cause of the war in the Dombas, but it was also not entirely unrelated either.
Michael, I don’t believe that myself, it’s more like a satirical quote of what people believe if they’re typical leftists who only read propaganda. I have no agenda wrt Jesus, since I was born Jewish and raised agnostic. I admire what I know about Jesus and share some of his values, but I have no idea whether he existed. I know he wasn’t Palestinian, because in the New Testament, he was shown as a dissident rabbi, and the early disciples were Jews. That works for me.
Ketzel,
Your reasoning is as convoluted as Ted’s, howbeit in different directions.
???
I know the likes of Edgar believes that Jesus, whose name and history are accepted as fact in every corner of the world, never actually existed; but to say he was a “Palestinian” over 1900 years before a “Palestinian” nationality was ever proclaimed, is equally ludicrous.
Let’s not confuse wishes and opinions with reality. Absolute reality does exist, whether we want it to or not.
Hi, Ted. You quoted the “1966 International Covenants”,
This is one of those pie-in-the-sky liberal pronouncements, based on fog and mush and destined to be decided by force of arms on the “Nimby” principle.
First of all, the definition of a “people” is tacit and arbitrary. Are the “South Africans” a people? Or are the peoples of the area rather the Afrikaaners, Coloreds, Anglo-Africans, Zulus, Xhosas, etc.? Is there a “Nigerian” people? Or are they Ibos, Yorubas, Hausas, Fulanese, etc.? The Arabs, both Muslim and Christian, are certainly a different “people” from the Israeli Jews; and inconveniently to the British, Jews, etc., they refuse to define themselves by “Western standards”. In the eyes of most of them, there are only two peoples: “The Faithful” and “Infidels”.
I can’t think of a single world power that has applied the 1966 “covenants” you cited, consistently; nor can I think of a single country among the nearly 200 recognized today, that does not have “Donbasses” or “West Banks” in them.
So much for the 1966 “covenants”. The UN Charter, on the other hand, explicitly defends the sovereignty of its member nations; and Ukraine has been a UN member since 1945. The only recognized change in its 1945 boundaries was the gifting of Crimea by the USSR; and that gifting has overwhelming UN acceptance.
Here is the best question I just thought of: if you weren’t already a Zionist, how would you feel about those Zionazis targeting innocent Palestinian children, just so they could steal Palestine from the Palestinians, who have lived in Palestine since before Jesus, who was Palestinian.
This is what ordinary people read over and over and over again. We are immune because we know we’re not Nazis. The rest of the world is at the mercy of the Narrative.
This, and the many hoaxes (Serbia, South Africa, COVID) I’ve lived through, make me wonder, when a government is universally accused of atrocities, just because they’re like that, who wants me to think that way and why? I’m not even anti-Russian! When the pianist Valentina Lisitsa was canceled for supporting the Donetsk rebels, I supported her. She has free speech, I still enjoy her work. When the soprano Anna Netrebko was canceled for the same reason, I thought that was ridiculous. I want balance and free speech, not The Narrative. According to the MSM, we are Nazis who enjoy murdering Palestinian babies and stealing their ancient lands. Always ask, what don’t they want you to know.
Since we are sort of discussing Ukraine, I have a genuine question, not rhetorical. Whenever I try to find out why Ukraine has been bombing Donbas and Luhansk for so many years, I am only able to find the pro-separatist story. Ukrainian Nazi atrocities and all. No doubt there is some truth to this, but where can I find neutral commentary? Maybe the search engines hide it.
I remember very well, before and during the NATO bombing of Serbia, the news was all about Serbian atrocities, never about the reasonable Serbian position. I was always confused by that and felt intuitively that Albanians pouring into Kosovo and being joined by jihadis from the middle east, was a scam, and more needed to be said by the MSM, which was all in for ethnic Albanians Years later, I was able to find the information I was looking for, and indeed, my sympathy for the Serbian cause was justified (although they are now a staging area against the EU, enabling Muslim immigration and holding Chinese and Russian missiles).
So, my question is, what is the real cause of Ukraine’s bombing campaign against the ethnic Russian enclaves in the east, and what caused those provinces to want to secede.
Don’t tell me about how they can’t speak Russian in school. My parents couldn’t speak Yiddish in school. They learned English, the end. This is typical of all minorities, they are bilingual. Hungarians in Serbia, and so on. Every country in the Balkans has situations like this: Albanians, Macedonians, Greeks, Romanians, all speaking their language at home and the official language in school. You mean to tell me that people in Donetsk would rather be bombed for 14 years than learn Ukrainian? Is there one honest source that can explain this? Otherwise I’ll have to keep assuming that the Ukrainian bombing campaign had some justification we’re not told about, but we will learn only after those territories have been part of Russia for a generation.
Russia did the exact same thing in Abkhazia. It used to be mixed Georgian and Abkhazian, but Russia helped the poor oppressed Abkhazians steal the land and property of Georgians, many of whom were murdered, and the survivors live in Georgia, without land. When a huge aggressive country like Russia tells me about evil Ukrainian Nazis, and the MSM repeats it, I am suspicious.
No doubt there are as many Nazis in Ukraine as there are in Russia, but I’ll never forget, Netta Barzilai’s concert in Kyiv, which I missed by a couple of weeks, still was advertised all over the tourist areas in Kyiv, and the posters were not defaced. When you’ve seen that, you wonder about this Nazi stuff. I met the Azov boys at a street fair, everyone shunned them.
Migration and demographic change can be slow. Many ethnic Mexicans were born in the United States and speak English with the same American accent I have. Most of them are good people. However, the permissiveness and complacency of white Americans, including accusations of racism, has led to permanent demographic and cultural change in the USA, as well as the real threat of loss of territory. They can have a referendum anytime they want. Chula Vista in San Diego County is de facto Mexican, with the same gang and cartel problem as in Tijuana, where I currently live.
Any law that favors self-determination is a law that enables the gradual encroachment and takeover by foreigners. Is that a good policy for Israel? It seems to me that Zionists should be against giving rights to aggressive foreigners. The Palestinian problem, aside from being created by the KGB, is that they have rights because their great grandparents lived in Israel for two years. Now their descendants have been there for generations. I absolutely don’t support any Palestinian self-determination. And this example exists everywhere. As the saying goes, being born in a barn doesn’t make you a horse.
Let’s look at it another way in the Donbass. Most of the inhabitants of the 4 provinces were born there. Why should these people not have the right to hold a referendum and secede. What you are saying is that Ukrainian sovereignty trumps self determination. But that is not what the law says.. Read my article on annexation again.
You are correct, Ketzel. Supporting the sham Russian “refferenda” is political suicide for countries like Cyprus, Israel and the US, which all have large minority populations. Imagine if, after a Trump 2024 victory, the DC decided to vote for secession.
And what’s to stop them from having a referendum on joining the majority Turkish area to North Cyprus or Turkey, once they’re a majority? This is the playbook everywhere there is an aggressive neighbor. Call it democracy or the will of the people, get more land. In effect, if an ethnic minority is on the move in your country, only ethnic cleansing of them and aggressive self-defense will keep the borders where they are.