By Ted Belman
From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.
Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.
Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.
The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.
Everyone will be happier.
This is the message I got when I went to the Israpundit Page on Facebook.
The magnificent Andrew Cuomo has resigned. And for what? Sexual harassment? I don’t mean to limit the significance that his dozens(probably fewer) victims of sexual harassment or even sexual battery might have suffered, but it seems unlikely that they suffered anything when compared with the thousands of victims in the nursing communities who were intentionally exposed to a disease to which it was well established that they were the most vulnerable. So, should Cuomo be allowed to escape judgement of mass murder under the guise of the political calumny of sexual harassment, rather than face the capital crimes resulting from his refusal to employ Federal assets to maintain the elderly in their quarantined quarters. Was this not the very purpose that so many loved ones were forced into this imposed unkind isolation – to protect them from possible exposures – only to leave them to a most certain contamination.
These elderly were abandoned to their cruel fate, due only to the good governor’s criminal neglect of their interest while they were intentionally exposed to fellow citizens known to have had the virus, which was the result of no accident or oversight – he wrote his own proclamation to place the ill and vulnerable together. To further characterize his crime, when the great Cuomo was first asked about his victims, he sought to blame the care-givers of negligence – mind you that these were the very people who were tending to the every need of the governor’s many victims right upto their final moments. He next blamed the dead themselves, choosing fate’s judgement as the next ruse to shade his infamy. Indeed, his callous disregard for his victims and his routine cowardice to acknowledge the results of his actions plied further hardships upon those remaining lives most directly affected by his thinly masked villainy – the many families left shattered by the silent loss of his murdered masses.
Meanwhile to further escape his pastdue retributions, this great leader, having lost more per capita in his state than any other nation, chose to persuade the world of his innocence by declaring himself the world’s savior. To his call, the world answered by celebrating this entitled fool as their generation’s champion against the virus and applauded his failed achievements with Oscars and awards. He even found time to scribe his momentous role in a book, and then embarked upon a campaign to spread his ever-present self-love among the nations masses who were fortunate enough not to have been sheltered alone in the slowly acknowledged Cuomo-plague-wards. He actually won everything he never deserved, while clinging to hopes of never being awarded the just retribution for everything he made certain. I pray that the public of both his nation and state will not be so beguiled by his obvious attempts to play-act this manufactured ruined career as a just penance in place of being judged upon Justicia’s scales – his reward of her blind judgement is well past due.
We should not forget this man’s crimes, we should pursue the horrors that unfolded from his Executive Orders with an intent of exacting a just equity. Indeed, let Cuomo be the first of many judgements which will be needed to balance the scales for these many China-Plague-Scandals. Remember his victims, they were each a neighbor, a friend or a cherished loved one. Let the memory of their sacrifice to his orders be noted and placed upon the lips of every member of the nation. Some crimes may be deemed too great to seek a fair remedy, but none should be abandoned as being too great to demand certain justice.
From Patrick Byrne:
It seems that the contracts between Phizer and two countries have been leaked. The Brazil contract which is very similar to the Albanian contract has documented verification of its validity(they claim) on the site below. Makes for interesting reading. If we are to accept these as valid, the contracts stipulate that regardless of alternate therapies, the signatory govts must still buy the Phizer product as in the quantity as agreed. I am not sure why this is so surprising, I thought this was already known. There are other findings noted in the documents as well.
The links are below:
Albania
https://twitter.com/eh_den/status/1419653002818990085
Brazil
https://twitter.com/eh_den/status/1420072293942927360
Johnthan Spyers’s latest article in Jpost on an Israeli who reveals many details regarding the fall of the Shah and his extensive carreer in the Mossad. Eliezer “Geizi” Tsafrir shares the tales of his past experiences and some hopes for the present and future. A very interesting and informative read.
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/a-former-senior-mossad-officer-looks-back-on-his-career-674654
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Mobs have a toxicity about them which often humble all but the most single-minded of men such as Socrates – and the men who hold a more usual resolve will accommodate their judgements for a respite of such overwhelming unpleasantness, but to the ruin of any principled faith within them. It is terrible that each of these men went to their graves, having never known the immense crime their petty actions and unrestrained biases betrayed their life’s works.
I am glad I have likely found an error in my own judgement on this topic. It changes little beyond my understanding of this crime, but it was likely an immense crime, to which I let myself be misled. Your comment on the location of the scroll’s discovery was the very fact that initiated my belief in its validity. There were explanations proposed, as there had been scrolls stated to have been found in the area previously, but when you tease open the details of these other scrolls discovered previously, you will find they are referencing discoveries in Jericho, some 65km away, in the area indeed…I should have held to my thoughts on this topic as you seem to have done.
Regarding Shapira’s attempts at fakery, I had read that these were limited to his early dabblings in antiquities, for which he had been greatly shamed. I read he had, for many years after that, been quite a solid source of trust by the community and the British Museum in particular. But his history of having once betrayed the trust of his trade was certainly an involved calculation in his destruction.
The details of your research that you shared are quite fascinating to consider. I can speak to the anticipated errors that are common in any oral tradition over any great, or sometimes not so great, a period of time. Many conclusions can be considered when recognizing that these subtle flaws are often times much less remote than they are common. Hence, a more fluid consideration for a strict adherence to the lettering or order of things may be very revealing, as you point out.
And I am not sure you can out perform my scattered reflections, as your own are noted by a deep thought and a certain focus, which I have found more stimulating and very rewarding than my own rants.
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@Edward
You have shared a great deal here and I must confess a great appreciation of your very learned comments. So 1923…It seems much nearer in time than 1884, especially if their true age is the 6th Century BCE. The likely crime, as I see it to be, that was played upon Shapira, was in turn played upon the world as something so precious that might have survived the unceasing harm of time, should be once more withdrawn from public access, due in no small part to these petty squabbles, with little interest in a fair judgement of considering such a valued insight into the very distant past.
The loss of such a trinket of time’s testimonies to such base motives, ahh, it is enough to wish I could believe the forger’s tale again. A thought on this point came to me as I was typing yesterday – what if the Dead Sea Scrolls had been discovered 50yrs earlier? Would the discovery have been discarded by the community, or worse, by those who unearthed them, to save any related controversy similar to Shapira’s fate falling on them? Who is to say? An undisciplined inspection in any science is a complete betrayal by such low culprits as these men who plagued this subject with their petty actions.
I am unfamiliar with Ganneau, but your statement of Ginsberg being an enemy to Shapira was certainly the opinion shared by Shapira. Acknowledging this, however, does not change the fact that Shapira was condemned by many others first, to which Ginsberg simply added his voiced support, rather than advocating his suspicions ahead of this building wave of condemnation. Indeed, I came to an amateur inference that Ginsberg might have done so, as standing in the path of such a crescendo of outcry might be judged unwise for the preservation of his own position in this exclusive community.
He did, later, gain a great ardor in his impeachment of Shapira, though, perhaps, he appeared too ardently in his fervor when having arrived at this party late – almost suggesting, to me at least, that he had an interest in either placing HIS name upon Shapira’s downfall or in proving his merits to his many colleagues that led him to this conclusion rather than the other way around.
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TED I posted a very long response to Peloni 1&2. It seems to have been lost. I actually saw it published, and then edited a typo and “saved”. It took me a long time and I’d hate to lose it, as it was very varied and dealt with several associated subjects.
Edgar@Ted.
You should look it up, I’m sure you’ll find it interesting, and as Peloni writes, since today’s scholars are .saying that it was genuine, and Babylonian, making it the oldest scroll by far. ..
Poor man, he was in such despair and disrepute that he committed suicide over it. It’s actually a very sad story, fueled by Jew Hatred, because regardless of his reasons for converting (I don’t believe it was from conviction) he always seems to me to have remained a Jew…..much like his contemporary, D’Israeli.
Edgar G. @ Peloni
You mke a very pertinent point about the Dreyfus case, yes, France was violently Anti-Semitic, because of it’s cursed Catholiuc Church always afraid, having claimed far too much, because the Jews would mostly never convert, thus going directly against the “prophesies” and declarations in the Gospels, all mixed up with the needed invention of the “Second Coming”…
The major hammer was wielded by a Frenchman whose name (I may be wrong here) was Clermont Ganneau. He seemed to have an actual hatred of Shapira. I recall that Christian D’ Ginsburg, also a convert but a very learned Semitics scholar (I have 2 books by him , on the Essenes and The Kabbala) was very impressed with the parts fo the scrolls that he saw., but eventually went with the majority -pronouncing it a fraud.
As a side note, Ginsburg was converted at about age 13-14…. barmitzvah time, and I’ve known several Mishumadim who were converted at about the very same age. Maybe something there about teen age rebellion??-(D’Israeli, but that was his father’s fault, spiteful, and daggers drawn with the directors of his Synagogue)
Many years ago, very interested in the story, and deeply touched by the devotion of his daughter, I recall that at an auction the strips were bought by an Englishman for 5 pounds. Many years later the buyer’s home was destroyed by fire, but many items were daved,. It is not known, but suspected that the scroll was amongst the goods littering the ground, and perhaps, amid the fuss and excitement that a fires always attracts, was, along with other items stolen. I was a member of a newsletter which had many excellent researchers wih detective instincts, who tracked it to about 1923.
They have never surfaced since. I don’t believe in such coincidences, that the scroll was found arou/nd Quamran, I believe that the scroll was genuine. And your comment on the decisions of modern scholars that they WERE genuine, are good to know. With what you wrote about the reasons for Shapira being deemed a faker, he actually sold, along with genuine items, many fake antiquities in his shop, and I seem to recall reading that he had a very good workman who manufacured them for him.
Concerning the 10 Commandments, there are two lists in the Torah, one in Deuteronomy and the other later, (can’t recall) the later one having a few substitute commandments or with words added to the originals. You knowl,there has been so much strife, war, invasions, subjugations, disruptions and (adopting Velikovsky’s term) utter chaos in the history of our country that it HAD to be patently impossible for proper record to have been kept.
For instance, there are 2-3 (perhaps more) supposedly “accurate” lists of the High Priests, right from Zadok down. they have many gaps, missing names, different names, mistaking a later with an earlier HP.and more..
My own pet puzzle (I’ve mentioned it here, but no one was brave enough to tackle it) is in the prayer which begins …”Bemay Matityahu ben Yochanan, Kohen Gadol, Hashmonai”…
Since I discovered that “Hashmonai” meant “Exalted Person”…(or “great man”)
I have wondered how to translate the passage…was Matityhu a High Priest, or Yochanan…and who was the “exalted person”…Either of them??? Was there ever a person actually named Hashmon….??? I believe that Hasmnon is a description, not a personal name, and was never able to find in Jewish history or lists, such a name.
Dayan Zalman Alony of Dublin, later of The Bet Din in London, a great scholar and author, agreed with me, discussing it at length..
There was very strong opposition to the Maccabeans, because they assumed both the Kingship (which was cemented in a descendant of David) and the High Priesthood (which belonged to a descendant of Zadok. So ………???
On another point we brought up, the confusion (my opinion) between Aluf and Elef. I since the purported Exodus time was, say, 5 centuries before the account was written down, how easy it would be for discrepancies to enter,, as almost surely, for a couple of centuries , the stories were passed around whilst sitting at the campfires.
There are several examples of over-exuberance and religiosity in extolling the Creator with “yes there were 4…and 4 times 4”. There are such examples in our prayers, and in handed down sayings. Even today, we find sacred scrolls with repeated lines, and repeated words, however carefully the scribes work. These are caused by the eye jumping, a kind of autonomic twitch….. I have read about such things. I’ve seen extra words and single letters in margins, errors, but since they are in the Torah, too holy to be omitted.
And..we must take into account that the early Hebrews were illiterate, extremely superstitious, and almost completely agrarian, ruled over by a Priesthood nearly as ignorant, but more cunning.-if more pious. . ..
This could go on for ever, so I’ll stop right here. I can certainly outdo you in the length of my meandering megillah …………
Somehow all this stuff regarding Shapira escaped my attention. This is the first I heard of him and his “scrolls”. So I am unable tto put in my 2 cents worth.
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Also the text of the 10 Commandments were different as they were written in the first person, but also had an added refrain, similar in nature to Christian prayers(I am very unfamiliar with this point on Christian prayers, but I am told it is common) at the end of each of the laws – something like ‘I am the G_d, your G_d’, or something close to this). Additionally, it could be seen that there appeared to be 11 commandments using the refrain.
The details on the styling is lost to me now, and, in truth, was probably never well understood even back when I read on it. The presumed forged leather scrolls appeared to be very short, and were conjectured to have been cut from the edges of other authentic leather scrolls that Shapira had previously collected and sold to the British Museum.
So, I believed these point taken together were convincing, and Tony was quite involved in the investigation – again, I had, and have, no expert opinion, but just a cursory interest in the topic, though I regret not following it closer now due to reasons you will shortly understand. Writing this, I find it the irony worth noting that in his age, Shapira was thought a fraud because he was a Jew and in the current era, he was thought to be a fraud because he was a Christian, just something to muse upon as I finish the extent of my understanding on this subject.
Earlier this year, shortly after Trump left the White House, I needed to find something to focus my mind on beyond politics and the vaccines to lower my blood pressure, and I found a shocking article on the Shapira Scrolls. An Israeli student took up the topic and concluded that the scrolls were likely not fake at all, but likely dated back to the Babylonian captivity, ~6-7th Century BCE, actually pre-dating the original writing of Deuteronomy and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Also an expert on Biblical Hebrew described the writings on the Shapira Scrolls as accurate Biblical Hebrew from the 7th-6th Century BCE which she had never seen in a forgery before.
He also found the odd sized scrolls were described back in the 1880’s as thicker than the parchment from which Shapira was suppose to have trimmed his leather strips for the presumed forged scrolls. Ultimately, it can not be known if his conclusions are true, as the original Shapira Scrolls are lost and this hypothesis is much discussed, but beyond any possibility of being tested as true or not. I believe it was mused at the end of the article that we will have to wait til they surface, or a well staged forgery is produced in its place 🙂 .
I don’t know what is true, but it does also occur to me that the Christianized forgery theory does not actually prove that Shapira was the forger, as he could have come by such forgeries without knowing their fraudulent nature. So, this is what I know of the Shapira Scrolls, the jury is still out it seems but a very interesting story, I thought.
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@Edgar
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Funny you should ask about the Shapira Scrolls, I am not familiar with Allegro’s writings on the matter, but I am somewhat familiar with this scroll and it’s complicated history. I will try to keep this story clear, but it is a bit jumbled in my own memory as I have formed an opinion twice on the topic and now am somewhat undecided on the matter, so forgive me if I misaligned a point somewhere unintended. My opinion is not usually so inconstant, but I am always open to alternate opinions when better facts might support them, and I was convinced on some logical reasonings that I was wrong in my original opinion, and only recently, I have developed a greater interest in the idea that my original opinion might have been more accurate, in spite of the fact it was initially formed around less evidence. I had believed in the validity of Shapira’s scrolls for the uncanny reasoning that you sited – too coincidental to ignore – though owning no further knowledge in my years in high school.
It was later, in my college career, that I happened to find someone with an excellent knowledge of the Shapira Affair, as he described it, who was an associate in the History Dept named Tony who was an Anglican(I think) from England. I contacted Tony on other matters and we spoke often on many topics, and he persuaded me quite definitively that the Shapira scrolls were in fact fraudulent beyond any doubt. To qualify this it should be noted that, though it was an interest of mine, it should be recalled that I never made a detail study of this subject, myself, unfortunately, but on his suggestion I did look into the topic, toes deep so to speak.
I was certain in my presumption on the unlikely possibility that the scrolls would be found so close to where later scrolls were found, but looking into the matter I confirmed the reasons he cited for his thoughts, but accept this loose opinion for what it is, as, again, I have a limited knowledge on this point. The irony is that there is definitely support that the rejection of the scroll at the time was largely due to the impossibility of an ancient text surviving to the modern age. That, and the fact that though Shapira was converted to be a Christian, he was originally a Jew – recall this was the early 1880’s, only ~10yrs prior to the Dreyfuss case.
Many would then expect the modern age, when we are aware of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient parchments surviving to today, it would call for a need to reconsider the topic of the Shapira scrolls. It is unfortunate that the scrolls were lost shortly after the controversy was settled, somewhat, with Shapira’s suicide.
The reasoning offered by Tony, claiming the scroll as fake, related to the content, the style of writing of the text, and the size/height of the leather scroll. The content was claimed to be “Christianized” with the traditional laws included in the traditional Deuteronomy text being devoid of any laws beyond the 10 Commandments – which are the only laws in Deuteronomy accepted by the converted Shapira. It was accepted that these laws would never be edited from the original Deuteronomy by any Jewish scholar, modern or ancient, as it would be viewed as an act of heresy.
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@ Peloni, @ Ted…
Have you ever considered an opinion on Moses Shapira and his Scroll. Denounced as a fake, the fact tnat Shapira said it had been discovered exactly where over 60 years later the Quamran Scrolls were found, leaves very interesting conjectures to be mulled over..
I was reminded of this because in our discussion the other day, I had forgotten that Allegro wrote on it, and I’d read it many times . He had a wonderful daughter, so all in all, must have been a good man.
I am just reading a novel in which cyphers are a part of the story. So….was reminded of Churchil’sl comment when he went to visit Bletchley Park during WW2. Walking around with the director he was seeing all sorts of very odd looking and behaving characters…
SO…Churchill being Churchill, ..he said..”I know I told you to leave no stone unturned, …but I didn’t mean you to take me quite so lterally”… Hilarious.
I very dimly recall (since it was likely decades ago) that there was a huge demonstration by the Hareidim against an attempt/plan by the government to form a Constitution.
I have no time to research it to find out when it was.
But it is not just the Hareidi parties.
If there is serious talk about a constitution again, there will be a huge backlash with 100,000 Hareidim in the streets (at least).
@Peloni what originally kept a constitution from being formed is the Haredi politicians. They do not want a constitution. Only a government that does not include them is likely to form a constitution.
@Bear
Exactly!! It is long overdue. I understand the ease of ignoring it with the fragility of coalitions, as is an accepted basis of every coalition, to a certain degree, but it is very important. Only, for my own desires and the security of the state, I would rather this task be handled by some coalition not including Abbas or Meretz, just a personal bias that I think I will never outgrow.
@Peloni petitions were brought before the court. The court ruled they do not have the power to rule on them. Sounds fairly good to me. 10 to 1 vote. I read what Shaked said also and I do not agree with the court many times.
Israel needs a constitution to define the separation of powers clearly. This would stop judicial over reach.
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It is good that they did not leverage this opportunity to gain a dominance over The Basic Laws, but it was beyond the duties of their high office to even consider their authority on this topic of validating the Basic Laws(that was better). But they ruled they rule, right? So why the fuss? Bear with me and let’s look at it sideways:
They voted. This means they gave an opinion. This means that they had the authority to decide what this opinion should be. This means they had the power/authority to decide what they just decided they didn’t have the power to consider in the first place.
It may seem to be a point of nuance, but this nuance, left uncorrected or unrestricted, grants the court the power that they granted themselves in considering this case to redress or reassess the issue, as it is only under their opinion that it was not pursued. It was a bold move by these Jurists, and one, perhaps, they reflected was a step too far and, thus, denied themselves the opportunity(for this or some other reason). But it was they who decided, voted and judged their limits of review over the Basic Laws as being within or beyond their authority.
To support my opinion on this topic, I will quote from my favorite Israeli Jurist, Ayelet Shaked, who is not a Judge at all and lifts her all the higher in my opinion. She “said she was disturbed that the court even discussed the possibility of overturning the Basic Law”- and yes her critique was perfect.
It was a point of Judicial overreach, which still stands assumed, by this bastion of defense for the Leftists and their un-Zionist aims upon the nation. Hopefully, something will change such that the Right can display enough good sense to appropriately demarcate limits upon these Rogues in Black who currently display an unopposed talent for choosing their own limits, not a healthy lifestyle for anyone, much less so for Tyrrants.
This perfectly demonstrates the degree to which this power thirsting group of despots feels they are unlimited in their reviews by all measures, save their own opinions. Indeed, too much authority and its resulting consequence has been borne of this presumed Juristocracy(i.e. Tyrrany of Jurists) established by themselves and has been left unopposed over these past many years. Still good news that they chose not to harm the state further than displaying a lack of limit upon their jurisdiction, which is, in itself, harm enough, I would say.
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@Bear
Thank you for sharing this, Bear, as I had not noticed it. This is very good news that the vote was so accommodatingly supportive of reality. I am likely all the commenters or, perhaps, only one of them, that you referenced in your comment that I quoted here, but I think you missed the proper context of my deep concerns that I voiced when they considered the case.
It is good that the Justices, Rogues in Black I often call them, came to a just ruling, as it was long past due for a fair ruling on an important topic by them. It would be good if they could do this again shortly, but such miracles are likely too scarce to expect too often, lest the mere children citizenry become drunk upon the notion that it is to be a Zionist state, after all.
But my contention was greater than any expectation of their ruling’s content, though you are correct that I had prejudged their presumed authority to make a judgement was evidence that they would make a judgement and in this, as you noted, I had misjudged them. So what was my objection then? Well, to answer this, we should ask what were they considering and exactly what did they rule.
The court ruled that they did not have the authority to rule upon the Law that they were considering ruling on. As complicated a statement as this is, it sums up the absurdity that they illegitimately took the authority upon themselves to comment on this law rather than simply state that their judgement should be limited to only interpreting it’s meaning. Let me put that in a better parlance – They assumed the temerity and authority to vote on their authority to judge the Basic Law(This really is hard to write).
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Nation State Basic Law is upheld by Israeli Supreme Court.
Some regular commenters on this site were dead wrong when they prejudged what the court would do and said they would nullify it. The vote was 10 to 1. Israel Nation State Law is the Law of the Land.
The rule change at that the NSCC has put in place today is well explained in the following article:
https://tokenist.com/new-nscc-rule-change-poised-to-end-the-short-squeeze-saga/
A major change in the stock market dynamics that has historically supported major players on Wall Street has just been adopted and takes effect tomorrow. This rule change would require a short-seller to cover their bets by the next day and thus eliminates their ability to make multiple bids simultaneously that they can not cover. This is a very significant reform that has been advocated by Byrne and others for many years – didn’t expect to see this in my lifetime.
From Patrick Byrne’s Locals.com acct.
DAMN provocateurs:
[2,000 police had to be employed to protect these idiots!]
I can’t remember the last time I laughed this hard.
@Edgar
Yes, Edgar, it seems you have placed it into a much shorter summary with great effect without the loss of understanding the basics – I really am unskilled at short writings. But in reading your response, I do recollect another complicating consequence to the need for an early administration of heparin. I will try to keep it brief and if I am unclear tell me and I can more fully explain.
The body has a natural process by which the lungs fill with air and the blood flows in the vessels. But when the machines are the only stimulus for the breathing and circulation in the body, it does so thru unnatural means. This unnatural process has consequences. Let me put it a different way, these two processes use alternate means to generate circulation and respiration.
These alternate means can lead to unnatural blood flows that make some vessels tighter than to which the body is accustomed. So, in addition to the temperature we spoke of earlier, these altered blood flows will also lead to an elevation in blood clot formation which would call for an urgent use of a blood thinner. I could explain it better, and I would be happy to do so, but I think the real explanation is more info than you are desiring. If I am wrong, let me know.
The thing about people living without oxygen for prolong periods is fascinating. I actually have a close friend who nearly died after being knocked unconscious in a pool for 25 min. while emergency crews dragged him out of a swimming pool. I have always wondered, but could never bring myself to ask, why the family members who called for an ambulance left him in there for so long without dragging him out, but that is just a thought I have never shared with him.
He had always had one of the quickest minds and most sarcastic natures I have ever known. And he still does today, years after the pool situation, only he now he is terrified of the water, understandably. A rational explanation for such things is unknown. Excessive adrenaline in the blood due to stress or excitement can answer to some degree, reduced metabolism due to colder body temperatures(just slightly not like in cryonics), or of being unconscious could answers part of it.
But that is all much use of an imaginative story telling to explain something for which we just don’t have an explanation. Much of what happens in medicine falls back to the 85-10-5 rule, some know it as the 80-10-10 rule, but I think 85-10-5 is closer to the truth. In 85% of the cases, no matter what you do, things will resolve for better or worse regardless of your efforts or input. Then there is the 10% of the cases, where what you do will make things worse, though unintentionally, and hopefully you will catch it before things get too out of hand.
And then there is the 5% of the cases where what you do saves lives and really makes a difference and I should note that driving this 5% higher is what makes many clinicians obsessive in their studies and their instructors relentless in the education process. But as to the situation in the person unconscious for a lengthy time, they are part of the 85%. G_d smiled on them and leaves less humble men to take the credit or give clever explanations when the truth is well above their knowledge or ability.
PELONI_Thank you very much. You NEVER need to make any apology to me, no matter what.
Althugh you “simplified” your very detailed (to me) layout., I think I have the bare bones as follows.The fact of almost immediate onset of the tissue deterioration, limits and interferes with blood flow from a CPR machine, which mechanical operation makes the flow erratic to some degree. The need for rapid cooling would naturally clot the blood faster, and in a way this works against the thinning effects of the Heparin. . (There is much more of course, but I really have to think it through)
Another point, that, say in swimming pool or underwater accidents there have been well publicised cases, where, people have been without life for an hour or more, clinically dead. Yet, with dedicated CPR they have been revived reportedly undamaged, and apparently fully compos mentis. This should not happen because of the deterioration which sets in after heart and brain functions cease.That is hows I have always understood it.
As you say, a very complicated process, of checks and balances, which proceed on death, resulting in a degrading process, changing and altering as the process continues. I think I understand the “whirlpool effect”, that you mention.
If I am misunderstanding, please forgive me, I am responding right after reading your posts, and may likely not have difested what I think I have.
I’ve also read somewhere, that if Heparin is not inserted in the time allotted., it does not invalidate the cryonics preservation procedure. I suppose they are expecting that future science will handle it as part of the whole revival process.
And thank you indeed one again.
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So the protective aspect to the brain and the anticoagulation activity in the blood could each support the answer to the use of heparin. The timing, likely can not be extended due to the temperature effect of the clotting cascade. As I said earlier, the body must be cooled to offset the deleterious effects of the tissues following death. But the cooling increases clot formation.
The shot would need to be administered as early as possible. Clots form in the body and resolve continuously. There exists an equilibrium based on the beautiful mechanism that I alluded to earlier. If you have more interest, I can expand on this mechanism as it is quite an elaborate thing with checks and balances at every level. So the equilibrium will be pushed towards the increase in clotting formation due to the presence of cooler temperatures and slower bloodflows.
Now the bloodflows can be elevated as the mechanical devices are pre-set, but there are eddies that can form from eradic blood flows due to the temperatures. These eddies are like small whirlpools that are created when passing thru a valve(in the veins) or when turning sharp corners. The eddies will change with the dropping temperature and I believe the lower temperature will create increased number of eddies.
The eddies cause the blood to stop moving forward and rather, just spins in place. The delicate granules on the platelets can de-granulate due to stasis – lack of forward flow – or erratic flows – such as when they are caught in an eddy. For all things related to the body and medicine in general, I find it is important to recognize that at every level, most things exist in a state of homeostasis – a natural balance, as do blood clots with their formation being constantly formed and dissolved throughout the body.
It is an equilibrium that can be pushed one way or the other with the use of drugs, like heparin, to achieve a desired benefit. Should the body be left in what is called a pro-coagulative state, where clots form more readily than the natural balance, the clots can have a cascading effect – think of many socks being placed on the drain of a sink, the sink will soon fill and overflow from such a reduced drain. Now consider if this occurred in the brain which is the only organ cryogenics will not be able to replace in the future with artificial muscles or the like.
You can appreciate the reasons for the 20-30 min. max and I would say 20-30 is a quite long period to trust you can reverse any resulting imbalance in the natural balance I reference here. So, this is probably more than you were looking for in your question.
The detailed explanation required to answer your question leaves me not surprised at all that the Cryonics group didn’t explain the why of their stated answer ‘no’, as most doctors/clinicians would prefer to not explain the mechanisms required by such an explanation. I am, however, surprised they answered you at all. Let me know if something I wrote is not clear. It is all quite technical, and I try to keep it in general terms, but I do slip-up on such things often.
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Edgar, I did see your request for a physician or member of the medical community, but as I had left the field many years ago I was expecting some other member of our group here to answer your request. I had intended to respond myself should no one do so in the day following your request, but the deep concerns surrounding the election has been much on my mind of late, as well as the audits in the US. So it was not my intention to ignore you, and I do apologize for not responding sooner.
The science of cryonics is a specialized area of medicine that i hold no specific knowledge. That being said, i am aware that the process includes freezing the body as fast as possible to very, very low temperatures to halt the death process. It was my understanding, again I am no expert on this topic, but I thought the use of nitrogen was preferred to accomplish the quick cooling.
When a person dies, the body goes thru 5 separate stages of death. For cryonics to be successful, it is imperative that the body be frozen as quickly as possible to halt these stages from proceeding. The quick freezing process can be helpful to prevent a number of situations including the degradation of tissues from the lack of oxygen supply associated with a halt in the body’s circulation.
Also, the body needs less oxygen when cooled due to reduced metabolism, and so the lack of oxygen is likely to be less damaging with lower temperatures. But also the body has many bacteria throughout the skin’s surface and gastrointestinal tract, i.e. the gut. These bugs provide a significant defensive support(sort of) during life by keeping more malicious bacteria from accessing the body due to the presence of the normal bacteria being present.
But upon death, well think of the marauding barbarians sensing the decay in Rome. So all of these thing would need the cooling to be accomplished very quickly to prevent serious damage over just a few minutes time.
Heparin is a blood thinner. It is used in the collection of blood for certain tests and can be used pharmaceutically for certain disease states. I suspect that the purpose in cryonics is to keep the blood from entering into a coagulated state, i.e forming blood clots. The blood has small fragmentary structures that float in the blood called platelets.
The platelets are very important in the formation of blood clots as they carry granules containing chemicals that will, when stimulated, support the formation of clots. As with all the body’s many systems, the clotting cascade has a series of mechanisms to maintain a limited amount of blood clots being formed, while still being able to respond to tissue or vessel injuries within an appropriate degree.
Among the things that stimulates the formation of clots is the slowing of blood, exposure to tissues below the blood vessels, lower temperatures among other factors. Heparin helps keep the clotting process from occurring. But heparin is also very useful in the early, the sooner the better, treatment of stroke victims, with its benefits dependent upon the type of stroke and the timing of the treatment.
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PELONI- Last week I posted a query askng if any members were physicians, and got no response. But a day or so ago you mentioned that you were/had been a physician. Or so I understood.
I have come across a point, in an article on Cryonics, in
which subject, I am interested, which seemed to need expansion.
AS I understood it, their procedure, after death, is to use a CPR Machine-or maybe just manual compression- to keep the lungs processing oxygen, and circulating the oxtgen laden blood cells around the body, particularly the brain. Then inject a drug called Heparin, which is supposed to thin the blood, and MUST be done within 20-30 mins. of death, or it is no use.
It occured to me that since the purpose of the lungs action and blood circulation could be continued indefinitely by a CPR machine, that the 20-30 min, time limit could be expanded somewhat without any problem, especially if the really important part of their procedure, the rapid head/brain cooling, was done concurrently by their method which is just “ice blocks and cold water. “.
I actually emailed a Cryonics Co. and asked. They just said NO, but would not explain why not.
So I ask your opinion.
China has PPI reporting at 9%! This is the highest level since 2008 just before Lehman Bros. went broke.
Ted, just posted something and did not take. I had made an edit and it did not show up. Something in your software changes is NOT working.
New season of “The Amazing Mrs. Maisel” being filmed, according to this article which mentions that filming was disrupted by violence in Washington Square Park this past April.”
https://nypost.com/2021/05/29/washington-square-park-drug-den-horrifies-greenwich-village/
@ Reader:
I don’t believe that the Arabs want a “Palestinian State”. They could have had one long ago, and several times over. I believe-and I’ve posted it here more than once- that if they were given a state G-D Forbid, they would have to run it as a State. Their anti-Israel activities would have to be stopped, or they would face War. Their world wide “perks” would stop, and far more oversight would be exerted by the givers to see actually where the money ended up.
They would be completely responsible for their own actions. It would crumble into a dozen different warring factions within a year or less.
Israel would still be in control of their ingress and exits, except through unstable Jordan, another sham entity…………!!!
Skimming 20-40% would have to cease.. etc.
FINALLY!!! Someone noticed the selectiveness of the JAFI.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israels-white-paper-us-jews-find-locked-doors/#comments-919523
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Imagine how the US police would respond if “heisjustachild” threw a rock in a policeman’s face.
I believe these riots are a provocation for the establishment (God forbid) of a “Palestinian” state in Judea and Samaria this year (with “the Arab-Israeli citizens”, i.e., the 5th column, of course remaining within Israel, as is their right ’cause they are “indigenous”).
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/305862
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/539824
@ Sebastien Zorn:
That “example” is priceless…But more seriousy, the actual quote was in my opinion merey a metaphoroc example by the prophet to depict a Period of Peace, which Israel had never really experienced, and which he knew, beciae of the surrounding nations and previous history, would be an impossibility. Similarly with the swords and ploughdharss…the swords were needed always as much, and even more than that ploughshares.
Just imagine, in these short few words I may have really got to the TRUE meaning of the Moshiach stuff….like walking along the beach and stubbing your toe on a 4000 year old shard telling all about Abraham’s trip to Canaan……well not quite, but BIG..
Therefore his “prophesy” was a “tongue-in-cheek” throw away. The more I ponder on it (maybe 10-15 secs) the more I believe it to be true, But because over time, the pressures got worse and the REAL intention and meaning of the Prophet was lost-as so many obscure torah comments have been, that it became, an article of faith so to speak.
Especially when the Chashmonaim emerged from nowhere, and claimed both the Kingship and High Priesthood in the same family, which was totally going against accepted Torah and little better than blasphemy.
Israel, although there was a kind of, sort of, period of lesser outside pressures, but more interior pressures (from the Pharisees and Zadokites), Never again had the opportunity to become that oasis of Peace. In less than 100 years, mostly of lesser wars, the Romans were invited in and that was , the Bar Yonim proliferated, and that was THAT….!!
@Edgar G: This comment from the thread of “The HIstorical Jesus” article got stuck in moderation so I am reposting it here.
Edgar G. Said:
“…why lions were not lying down with lambs…”
Edgar, you reminded me of this recent hilarious example of life imitating art, albeit coincidentally, in this case – most people think it’s always the other way around. First, there’s the classic joke:
The Lion and the Lamb
A group of interfaith religious leaders were getting a tour around the Jerusalem Zoo by its administrator, Shmuel Shapira. Shmuel showed them one cage where a lion was lying together with a young lamb.
The head of the delegation was amazed. “For 2000 years, we’ve prayed for signs of the messianic era and the prophesy that the lion will lie down next to the lamb. How did you do it?”
“It was quite easy,” Shmuel replied, “All it needs is a new lamb a day!”
https://www.aish.com/j/j/360708231.html
and then there’s life – from this year!
Jerusalem zoo tries damage control after kids see lion eat bunny
Wildlife park explains big cats are usually fed dead animals behind closed doors but in this case, the lion dragged its food out into public view in front of visiting families
By BEN SALES
22 March 2021, 2:48 pm 2
https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-zoo-tries-damage-control-after-lion-seen-eating-bunny/
I wonder if anybody has ever thought to use as proof of the existence of the deity, the sheer abundance of coincidental humor in the frequent, apparently random juxtaposition of phenomena. Unless Google has gotten more sophisticated than i thought.
“Netanyahu-Ben Gvir Deal: Evacuate Sheikh Jarrah in Return for Massive Police Presence”
“”Ben Gvir described to the Prime Minister’s representatives the situation in the neighborhood, the attacks by Arab rioters on women and children throughout the past week, and the helplessness of the police.”
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/jewish-news/netanyahu-ben-gvir-deal-evacuate-sheikh-jarrah-in-return-for-massive-police-presence/2021/05/07/?fbclid=IwAR1tbUl-pkwCO9l8jNrKuYX9t9hWgv-P6amgqwWcIiqLtZY-sy9Bgjv5UJI
Damn, they should just shoot all the Arab rioters, no mess no fuss. So frustrating.
@ Reader:
I think the hospitals are paid money for COVID deaths,not the doctors. It’s the same thing, just a technical correction.
@ Michael S:
I am starting to think that the humankind is stuck in a time loop.
There is no evolution (except for the technological), it’s just that the dummies in power in their unending attempts at “controlling the mob” finally destroy life on earth, and whoever is left goes back to the caves and comes up with various myths about how everything started or got ruined or whatever, and the cycle starts all over again.
Then some a$$holes get into power and start wars, conflicts, etc. because they want more and more of everything, and finally – guess what?
They press the wrong button, and everything goes to hell.
You know that idea that the world is run by evil geniuses?
Well, whoever they are, they are TRUE IMBECILS!
“You cannot go to the grocery store and by groceries if you are not vaccinated”.
Let me put it another way:
“[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Vaccination today, vaccine passport tomorrow…”
I think it’s pretty clear, what the “mark of the beast” is.
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! PLEASE WATCH (it is in English):
https://www.bitchute.com/video/i1hjhJQhGZlK/
She claims that:
1) Israel finalized the deal with Pfizer 2 years ago.
2) The info on the vaccinations must remain secret for 30 years.
3) Israeli doctors are paid 20,000 shekels for each COVID diagnosis (similar to the US)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-biggest-yet-israel-uae-deal-delek-to-sell-stake-in-tamar-gas-field-for-1-1b/
ARE THEY INSANE?!?!
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/israel-restricts-gaza-fishing-zone-in-response-to-palestinian-rockets-666334
I’m sure Hamas is shaking in their boots. Ganz is Defence Minister, at the moment, right? One scary dude. Now, if I were a terrorist leader, and I had to go without Tilapia on Tuesdays, I’d think twice about continuing my terror war, wouldn’t you? Especially, with elections coming up and all. Tactical genius is what it is.
Somebody named, “BanzaiIII” just responded to my Jerusalem Post comment, on yesterday’s article about the Armenian genocide, in which I mentioned that Trump had defeated ISIS, “Trump said Obama and Hillary founded ISIS. Trump 2024.” Mr. BanzaiIII had the sun from the Japanese flag next to his name. So, I humorously responded, “Banzai!!! (LOL)” {which means, laugh out loud. the current way of saying, ha ha ha or in Facebook, a laughing icon. Banzai, I don’t have to explain to this crowd (lol).} [which reminds me of what I thought was wrong with Bill Murray’s remake of “The Razor’s Edge” based on Somerset Maugham’s novel. The original from the 30s, only had to explain Indian mysticism to the audience but the remake had to explain WWI!
I didn’t know this and it’s the best answer to American Jews who say defending Israel is not high on their list of priorities. “Israel’s Penal Law of 1977 contains a provision to extend Israeli criminal justice, under certain circumstances, to offenses committed abroad. This includes antisemitic attacks against “the life, body, health, freedom or property of a Jew, as a Jew, or the property of a Jewish institution, because it is such.”’
https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/04/23/halimi-family-lawyers-announce-bid-to-extradite-antisemitic-killer-of-french-jewish-woman-for-trial-in-israel/?fbclid=IwAR39uC4R3Iuxr1RP4jkiX_bUINlPQ2hChZwBcWmVWQr0pz6z14yasSM8468
The four things I like least about videos and podcasts is that it is hard to check anything they say, as there are no corroborating citations, they often cite anonymous sources, and I read faster than that so I get impatient for them to get through it even when they don’t ramble, which they usually do.
Ted, I just posted two items under Caroline Glick’s article. They must be in some sort of Purgatory. Meanwhile, Three Cheers for the Aussies!
“China warned Thursday “serious consequences” await Australia after it tore up a Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) agreement between the two countries, cautioning “serious harm” to relations remain possible along with unspecified economic coercion against a country that refuses to be bullied.
“Canberra pulled the deal late Wednesday, as Breitbart News reported, in a move destined to provoke Beijing but justified by the conservative coalition government as necessary to prevent Australia hosting a giant infrastructure scheme “used for propaganda.”
“China is Australia’s biggest trading partner, but Australian leaders have previously shown no hesitation in standing up to Chinese political and economic influence, evidenced by Australia’s decision to ban Huawei from any participation in a national 5G network.
“Prime Minister Scott Morrison also led the global call 12 months ago for an independent international inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, an action which was condemned by the Chinese Communist Party…”
— https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2021/04/22/serious-harm-china-warns-australia-of-consequences-after-belt-and-road-deal-scrapped/