Chit Chat

By Ted Belman

From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.

Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.

Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.

The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.

Everyone will be happier.

April 16, 2020 | 7,783 Comments »

Leave a Reply

50 Comments / 7783 Comments

  1. @ honeybee:

    I think we have been here before.
    You don’t know much about the American colonial rebellion, so you think it was about “getting rid of the British and Crown”, where as in fact combatants on both sides were British subjects.

    Washington did achieve a few minor victories, but mostly won because the British lost, thorugh increasingly failing logistics.

    The saying, “no guts, no glory” was the name of a fighter tactics manual called No Guts, No Glory (1955) by Major Gen. Frederick C. Blesse

    You may be thinking of the “No Pain, No Gain” by Franklin, but this was said in 1734

  2. @ honeybee:
    Did they complain that we should give in because it was ruining their lives? Doubt it. My uncle got a bullet in the brain. Kept going. We, the post Korea generations are so revoltingly self-pitying and selfish, albeit with pretensions of universal altruism, girl! And we withdrew right before winning in Vietnam. The fault was not the troops, despite the fracking (funny they use the same word) and disgusting groups like Kerry’s Vietnam Veterans Against The War. Our career military still has the right spirit. It’s the country that’s lost it. Maybe this election is a referendum on that too. In Israel, soldiers joined ‘Peace Now” and refused to serve in Lebanon because they were upset about being killed on patrol in a foreign country which ironically led to off duty reservists being killed inside Israel and missile barrages and air raid drills. They brought the war home. Bin Laden said he attacked America at home because he kept seeing us withdraw under fire abroad. And he said he would have kept attacking us if we hadn’t immediately brought the war to his doorstep. See Kahane and the parable of the stinking fish from exactly 40 years ago:

    https://jdlcanada.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/israel-us-and-the-stinking-fish-by-rabbi-meir-kahane-hyd/

  3. @ Sebastien Zorn:

    I had relative is WWII and who died in Auschwitz too, so what. Were you in VN fighting?
    VN was a failures of LBJ to support both the war effort and the soldiers. Don’t call the soldiers who fought in VN whinny to me, boy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My Uncle was Chief of Staff of the American Hospital in Paris. My Aunt developed the MASH units in the Pacific.

  4. @ honeybee:
    Same whiny selfish crap that led to withdraawing from S. Lebanon, Gaza and Oslo. The greatest generation didn’t think like that. Like my Uncle. Purple Heart. Volunteer. Proud. My mother, who was in college, pianist and opera singer, she won a Fulbright to Italy aftwr the war, did volunteer unpaid farming work for.the war.effort, My 2nd cousin, twicw.removed dropped out of Law school to join the Marines in WW I. and fought in WW2 Israel ’48 and Korea. Like my uncle dropped out of college day after pearl harbor. Now those were Men and Women. I was not only a leftist from a liberal family but Carter was President. My loss. My uncle was amphibious engineers. My cousin was a marine.

  5. @ honeybee:

    Remember the domino theory Remember the left-wing slogan, “One, two many vietnams.” We stoppped the spread of Communism by making it too costly, like Putin is doing.now with Islamism. Even if we failed to liberate Vietnam. Look at the Wikipedia article. They had a state 2700 years ago. Like we did with Fascism and Communism at home. Time for another witch hunt. Time to ressurect HUAC.

  6. When “Borat” by Sasha Baron Cohen (an observant, Orthodox Litvak, incidentally) came out, I observed that it was only funny because it’s not true of Kazakhstan. If he had said where he really filmed it — where it’s not much of an exaggeration — it would have just been sad and horrifying.

    “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Meets with Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev” “…signed agreements on research and development, aviation,
    civil service commissions and agricultural cooperation, as well as a
    declaration on establishing an agricultural consortium. It was also agreed
    that teams would be established to study high-tech and security development…”

    http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=71894

    http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/132692-161215-netanyahu-lauds-kazakhstan-as-model-of-coexistence-in-visit-to-local-synagogue

    Unscripted with real people but filmed in Romania

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat

    As far as I know, in fact, Kazakhstan and neighboring Azerbaijan in former Soviet Central Asia are the only two Muslim countries in the world without a lot of anti-semitism

    http://forward.com/opinion/323118/what-the-muslim-world-should-learn-from-azerbaijan/

  7. mrg3105 Said:

    not any of Washington’s efforts.

    You say that because yawl Assies never attempted to free yourselves from the British and the Crown,

    ” No guts, no Glory” Old USA Revolutionary saying

  8. @ Sebastien Zorn:

    We should have allowed the Soviet and Chinese have Viet Nan. Let the them deal with the never ending civil wars and dynastic battles. Why take on the burden of the ever foolish French.

  9. Should we have allowed Nazi Germany to conquer the Soviet Union then? – the US role in defeating Nazi Germany was significantly exagerated in the USA. In fact D-DAY wouldn’t have been possible if not for the Soviet offensive that destroyed the Army Group Centre just before it. In December 1941 the USSR defeated the German offensive on Moscow without any Allied help.

    Should we have refused aid from Louis XVI of France In our War of Independence against England in 1776? – and aid from Spain also. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway. British logistics were unsustainable, and that is what caused them to lose the rebellion, not any of Washington’s efforts. If you look at British military history, you will see that the British had lost every war which lasted more than two years up to that time, and since. In fact this is recorded in the US Constitution.

    Should Israel refuse to ally herself with Iran’s Sunni enemies where possible? – most definitely yes. If for argument’s sake Sunnis defeat Shia, Israel will become their next target…perhaps after eliminating Kurds

    Should Israel cancel the free trade agreement and the military coordination hot line with Russia, the Red-Med link and all the joint research projects with China? – No, because neither Russia nor China are enemies, or even enemies of Israel’s enemies. Both countries have significant threat exposure to Islam, and therefore share in Israel’s insecurities. However, I would be cautious with the Chinese.
    From the US perspective which seeks both Russia and China as enemies, they become enemies of Israel’s friend, but I question if the USA is really a friend given the Obama years, or if there is just a business interest given Israel’s economic performance. China is a Communist nation, yet the US attitude towards it is very much different to the USSR, and this betrays the American greed as basis for foreign policy rather than moral principles. China is constructing a strategic military complex across the major maritime trade route, retains death penalty for political prisoners, is perhaps the most damaging economic force in the World owing to its domestic labour practices, employs unfair financial mechanisms that directly damage the US Economy never mind other countries, and yet the USA maintains normal diplomatic relationship with them. Some of these factors impact US national security and the very reason for the US independence from Britain, even if morality is ignored as a factor.

  10. @ honeybee:

    You mean in the lotus position? I seriously doubt it. My father mercilessly made fun of me when I showed the slightest interest in any kind of religion, Jewish, Eastern, anything. My father walked when I was 9. As a weekend dad, he lost his veto power. No wait. He did describe his dad as a typical 3 days a year Jew. He said that, apart from that, Judaism was as about as relevant to him as a Buddhist monk. Ha Ha. Though his mother was the observant daughter of an Orthodox rabbi. How’s that for melodrama, huh? Both died at Auschwitz for all the good their beliefs or the lack of them did them.

  11. @ honeybee:

    If that were true, they’d still be fighting like the Muslims. It was a chapter in the cold war just like Korea. And, we fumbled the ball. But Israel to the rescue as usual. Just googled: Israel Vietnam Israel21c

    http://www.israel21c.org/israeli-diplomats-and-doctors-join-hands-for-vietnam/

    http://www.israel21c.org/israels-agriculture-seeds-taking-root-in-vietnam/

    http://www.israel21c.org/milking-israels-dairy-expertise-in-vietnam/

    http://nocamels.com/2011/02/30000-israeli-cows-flown-to-vietnam-to-provide-milk/

    http://www.israel21c.org/turning-israels-desert-into-a-teaching-experience-2/

    http://www.israel-vietnam.com/

    http://www.israel21c.org/israels-embassy-embraces-cambodian-orphans/

    http://www.israel21c.org/young-israelis-to-volunteer-in-cambodia/

    http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/12/aquaponics-israel/

    Somebody should tell these “Jewish” organizations here. To hell with their “right” to be critical. The very least they can do is be proud. Ya think?

  12. @ honeybee:

    My grandfather was a tailor too like his father before him. He pulled my father out of high school and made him go to tailoring school for a year just in case, and it saved my father’s life. When he was put in the labor camp, they asked who was a tailor and my father raised his hand. He would sneak around and tear holes in the pockets of fascist uniforms so there would always be work for him to do sewing them back up. Later, it helped him when he escaped with fake uniform, papers and a gun – thanks to help from fellow prisoners and a friendly guard.

  13. @ honeybee:

    If that is true, then your professor was wrong for punishing you for your views but I disagree with your take on the war though before 9/11 I would have agreed with you. I also found David Horowitz’s writings very persuasive. Imagine if we had abandoned S. Korea the way we abandoned Vietnam. Way more people died as a result of our betrayal of the peoples of Indochina than as a result of the war itself but the media magnified each death on people’s screens out at home, way out of proportion to the reality. The media should never have been allowed in there except to do propaganda. Do you think we would have won either World War if the media had been allowed to trash the war effort? Or any of the wars we won. During the Civil War, Lincoln put pro-Copper-head areas like Indiana and Southern Ohio under martial law. Federal troops intervened in NY to put down the draft riots. In wartime, dissent is sedition, treason.
    Both you and the country would have been saved a lot of heart-ache if y’all had come to me for advice back in 1965/6. It was, however, typical of the backward, reactionary, oppressive, chauvinist, temporal-phobic, chronogically imperialist, crypto-fascist, and ageist short-sightedness of the time to completely ignore and ride rough-shod over the views of elementary school first graders on how society and the world should be organized, not to mention foreign and economic policy, the conduct of the war and, needless to say, how and when kids should be graded, most of all.

  14. @ honeybee:
    @ Sebastien Zorn:

    Glick was right on content but wrong on form in her dispute with Dershowitz where she defended and he decried booing as mere mindless disruption, harassment, kind of a soft terror, which it is. That’s why It’s a favorite left-wing tactic. It’s been pointed out that Fascism’s innovation was to marry right wing politics with left wing tactics. This friendly formal debate between Dershowitz and Kahane (who grew up together) is a model for the way ideas should clash. It’s really a delight to watch. You know, David Horowitz has written that he wishes that students today could have the kind of Professors he had in the 1950s who didn’t grade him as a Communist — which he was and they weren’t — but purely as a student on the merits of his arguments and presentations. Incidentally, I’ve never read anybody saying what I noticed which is that there is one volume of Lenin’s 50 I think? volume collected writings which is just his outlines, notes, and precis of everything he read for each project. Even a slim volume like “Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism” which, was actually his take on somebody else’s thesis, had massive, beautifully organized and succinct notes. They really could be a model for any student to emulate.

    Alan Dershowitz vs. Meir Kahane (1985 Debate)

    https://youtu.be/2ykrwmaKrLg

  15. @ mrg3105:

    You said: ““The Enemy of my enemy is my friend.” is actually a fallacy. The enemy of my enemy is just another aggressive actor, creating a more complex conflict.”

    Should we have allowed Nazi Germany to conquer the Soviet Union then? Should we have refused aid from Louis XVI of France In our War of Independence against England in 1776? Should Israel refuse to ally herself with Iran’s Sunni enemies where possible? Should Israel cancel the free trade agreement and the military coordination hot line with Russia, the Red-Med link and all the joint research projects with China?

  16. Sebastien Zorn Said:

    Serious? Your Dad met Buffalo Bill?

    Yup he sold the “The Denver Post” an BB was the distributor. He cheated the boys out of their money. They would lie in wait for him to return home from the bars and pelt him with rocks.

  17. @ honeybee:

    Serious? Your Dad met Buffalo Bill? And did he also tell him never to take any wooden nickels? Small world, incidentally. You know Geronimo? His father? and My father? Were fathers!

  18. @ honeybee:

    Honeybee said: “hahahahahahahahahahaha”

    Now that’s what we wanna hear. Man, how you guys make me work for it! Do I need to get up on my hind legs and beg?

    Remember. All that is gelded is not gelt. Except for geltfilte fish. Especially with horse radish. That makes it Western. Yummy.

  19. Well, I thought I meant Santayana but then I got the idea to google Shakespeare and yoga and quite a few things came up to my great surprise. For example:

    The Yoga of Shakespeare
    Heidi E. Spear Presenter
    https://kripalu.org/resources/yoga-shakespeare

    Shakespeare’s Yoga: How the Bard Can Deepen Your Practice–On and Off the Mat
    Book by Claire Szabo-Cassella
    Shakespeare’s Yoga applies some of the Bard’s most famous quotes and passages to yoga practice–on and off the mat. … Google Books
    Originally published: May 5, 2016
    Author: Claire Szabo-Cassella

    Shakespeare and yoga | Yoga – Against All Odds
    https://kaleneelizabethyoga.com/category/shakespeare-and-yoga/
    Posts about Shakespeare and yoga written by Kalene.

    By the way, I did earlier find but didn’t include somebody’s recollection of Santayana as a Professor at Harvard. He died in ’52. He wore a military cape! How’ that for relevance.

    And of course: Satyana Yoga Homepage
    http://www.satyanayoga.com/
    Satyana yoga studio offers hatha yoga classes in a variety of styles and experience levels. We are located in downtown Watertown, NY in the historic Paddock …
    ?Pricing · ?Teachers · ?Schedule · ?Old website

    124 Yoga Retreats and Holidays in Mexico with Reviews
    https://www.bookyogaretreats.com/all/d/the-americas-and-caribbean/mexico
    Experience paradise on earth on a yoga retreat in Mexico. At BookYogaRetreats.com, it is now so easy to compare and book yoga courses, ashrams, and …

    And finishing as we started in classical sonata form ABA:

    From One of My favorite movies:

    “What kind of God do you have?” – The Frisco Kid

    https://youtu.be/mpGrcK62ObQ

    (By the way, Harrison Ford is of Litvak descent on his father’s side.)

  20. Sebastien Zorn Said:

    I believe Santayana was French

    You Generalissimo De Santayana,El President de Mexico of The Alamo fame? He was gauchupines. A Mexican of Spanish descent with no Indian blood.

  21. @ mrg3105:

    All Greek to me. The Santayana piece was a joke. From the initial title, (especially ’cause the author’s name brings to mind Jane’s…) you think you are going to get serious military analysis but it’s just a bunch of names, including one General in charge of Maintenance — which is also a common euphemism for janitor — named Santayana — One of the articles — that was wrong about everything — used the world, “division” three times together with the famous quote, and the others were obvious nonsense involving military figures named Santayana.

    Thank you for the information about the nuances of lesbianism versus sacrificing pigs in time of war in the Torah. I’m always interested in knowedge about our history, and I’m sure it will come in handy one day when I am in battle, and I have to choose whether I want to become a woman so I can make love to another woman, sacrifice a pig, or do the right thing. I didn’t know that. Though, it hadn’t really occurred to me to focus on the lesbianism especially — though I’m always looking for good ideas on how to have fun with confusing thespian and lesbian. I have noticed, at the 92nd St. Y, for instance, the sanitized kid’s version of Chanukah that is the liberal norm. Same thing with Purim. Nobody dies. There are no conflicts. It’s just about Chanukah gelt. Like that annoying, border-line offensive but popular Adam Sandler song. In this case, it was pro- or con- Trump and all that implies for Israel. Maybe that’s me being myopic. The satire, “Our Man in Havana” which I referred to in another post — I googled it, it came out in December 1959, Castro came to power of February that year so it’s a direct comment — I’m sure that movie didn’t take years to make and release — was written by Graham Greene. I remember reading that Graham Greene, who was a Catholic — famous spy fiction writer, you may recall — once wrote that he supported religion, could see all the positive attributes of being religious, but wasn’t himself, and you can’t will yourself to believe just because you can see that has positive effects. De Tocqueville wrote the same sentiment.

    I couldn’t resist. I thought the flip remark, in any context, in response to Georges Santayana’s famous, and timeless line — without which “Never Again,” among other things would be impossible — “Those who forget history are destined to repeat it — how many divisions did Santayana command was so ridiculous, I just couldn’t resist. However, I found the conversation on both sides had degenerated into such vituperative silliness as I have seen some others engage in as well here recently, I am only here recently, myself, that I felt that the conservative magazine article inanely comparing the election with slavery, the Whigs and the election of 1852, and predicting a new party emerging from the split in the Republican party from back in July was just priceless. See, I got the idea to google: Santayana military divisions. I just loved the sea ditty about the Mexican Revolution, didn’t you? Especially since I believe Santayana was French. Too lazy to look it up right now. But his first name was Georges. That quote being repeated over and over is one of my earliest memories, even though I never really bothered to look him up. Sounds, Spanish I guess. I would have originally thought Indian. Like Rama And Satanama. But, then that’s my Jubu upbringing, I guess. Best.
    All the best. Happy Chanukah. And to everybody here.

  22. @ Sebastien Zorn:

    Torah culture will be the only ‘religion’ that survives, because it is the only one with a real God.

    It is a common misconception that lesbians came from Greece (Lesbos), but in fact original lesbians were from Egypt.

    The willingness to eat pork does not make one an apostate in time of war, the bringing of a pig as a korban (sacrifice) is. A woman that is a lesbian is therefore not equated to somone who wants to bring a sacrifice which is unacceptable.

    “The Enemy of my enemy is my friend.” is actually a fallacy. The enemy of my enemy is just another aggressive actor, creating a more complex conflict.

    ““Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
    With all due respect to Emerson Pythagoras was not misunderstood, Socrates was misunderstood only because he was silly about some things attributed to him, Jesus had to be misunderstood because his followers only spoke Greek, Luther was unfortunatelly understood only too well, Copernicus and Galileo hshould have considered the audience more carefully before expressing themselves, and Newton hid a sizeable part of his writings, which in retrospective makes understanding him much harder for those that thought they understood him based on only part of the evidence.

    But, to be great is to be misunderstood because great minds deal with great problems which require great, and often complex and inconceivable for the rest solutions. This is because most people either live in a comfort zone or prefer mandacity because it requires no risk taking, for an acceptable reward. Mostly though they are not desperate enough to seek a great success like the greats.

    On military logistics,
    The US DoD doesn’t understand military logistics, and so has no strategy to speak of. It is then a most unprofessional military organisation, and will continue to lose conflicts at great cost. People who fail to learn from the past, will repeat mistakes and die.

  23. Challenges of Military Logistics in a World of Uncertain Requirements
    Jane Cook

    Major General Ramon Pardo de Santayana Y Gomez-Olea, Director of Maintenance – ESP Logistic Command

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/challenges-military-logistics-world-uncertain-jane-cook

    https://books.google.com/books?id=FdcCAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA25&lpg=RA1-PA25&dq=santayana+division+military&source=bl&ots=qQoYETooh3&sig=QB5b8TOkxMyi9cU9PJ1TMBsIKd0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbi8GovPjQAhWFKCYKHYZIAfYQ6AEISDAI#v=onepage&q=santayana%20division%20military&f=false
    Somebody asked how many divisions Santayana had?

    “If we look back at the election of 1852, we see many of the same divisions except within a different political party…But, I would encourage them to take George Santayana’s words into consideration because history has proven the results may not be as fruitful as they are hoping.” [Using control F for find, I counted three divisions in this informative article from a Conservative magazine in July predicting the Republican party would split and Trump would lose.]

    http://thenewamericana.com/2016/07/28/remembering-santayana-repeating-1852-election/

    “Santayana – as sung by Michael Pratt, at the VFSS Shanty Workshop Nov 30 1988
    Santayana fought for Spain
    Heave away Santayana
    He fought for Spain and he gained his name
    All on the plains of Mexico
    And it’s heave her up and away we’ll go
    Heave away Santayana
    Heave her up and away we’ll go
    All on the plains of Mexico
    Oh Santayana gained the day
    And General Taylor he ran away
    Oh General Taylor ran away
    At Molly del Rey he gained his fame
    When I was a young man in my prime
    I’d kiss them pretty girls two at a time
    But now I’m old and going grey
    Oh rum’s my sweetheart every day”

    http://shanty.rendance.org/lyrics/showlyric.php/santayana

  24. I have said before that the only religions (including secular or political philosophies and ideologies) that survive are the ones that have enough internal contradiction to enable wiggle room for people to feel traditional while doing their own thing.

    “pro-Trump protester David Goldberg yelled at Sharon Kleinbaum, the clergywoman of New York City’s LGBT Congregation Beit Simchat Torah, “What is it that you think we celebrate on the festival of Hanukkah?” adding, “You would have been on the side of Antiochus rather than Judah the Maccabee.”

    It’s true. They would have been. Ha Ha.

    http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/jews-rally-counter-rally-outside-hoenleins-groups-hanukkah-party-at-trumps-dc-hotel-video/2016/12/15/

    “But there is a Hellenized Jew in the town who is willing to do what is unspeakable in Jewish eyes. As he’s about to sacrifice the pig, Mattathias stabs him, also killing the Greek official present. He then turns to the crowd and announces: “Follow me, all of you who are for God’s law and stand by the covenant.” (1-Maccabees 2:27)”

    http://www.aish.com/h/c/t/h/48942121.html

    Not to sound like a Karaite or anything. I don’t really care. I will support the issues of anybody who wants to annex and settle the land and remove the enemies of the Jewish people. The Enemy of my enemy is my friend. My politics can be summed up in two little words: “NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Addendum:

    Except for Mayor: I’ll vote for anybody who keeps my rent from going up so long as we don’t have another Crown Heights Pogrom in the meantime. So sue me.

    From one of my favorite essays. Ahh, to be an American. Glorious thing:

    “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — ‘Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.’ — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

    from “On Self-Reliance” by Ralph Waldo Emerson

    http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm

  25. Brilliant satire on what passes for “intelligence” and geo-political vacuums. Never more timely. Since we withdrew our forces, we are relying on dubious third parties for information, and forget the CIA.

    “Our Man in Havana” (1959)

    “Plot
    In pre-revolutionary Cuba, James Wormold (Alec Guinness), a vacuum cleaner salesman, is recruited by Hawthorne (Noël Coward) of the British Secret Intelligence Service to be their Havana operative. Instead of recruiting his own agents, Wormold invents agents from men he knows only by sight and sketches “plans” for a rocket-launching pad based on vacuum parts to increase his value to the service and to procure more money for himself and his expensive daughter Milly (Jo Morrow).

    Because his importance grows, he is sent a secretary, Beatrice (Maureen O’Hara), and a radioman from London to be under his command. With their arrival, it becomes much harder for Wormold to maintain his facade. However, all of his invented information begins to come true: his cables home are intercepted and believed to be true by enemy agents who then act against his “cell”. One of his “agents” is killed, and he is targeted for assassination. He admits what he has done to his secretary, and he is recalled to London. At the film’s conclusion, rather than telling the truth to the prime minister and other military intelligence services, Wormold’s commanders (led by Ralph Richardson) agree to fabricate a story claiming his imagined machines had been dismantled. They bestow honors on Wormold and offer him a position teaching espionage classes in London.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Man_in_Havana_(film)

    Our Man in Havana trailer

    https://youtu.be/NOcRnbGhQqc