By Ted Belman
From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.
Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.
Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.
The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.
Everyone will be happier.
dweller Said:
does this story exist in your NT or did you make it up yourself. Your enthusiasm for this scenario seems to be of very high interest to you,like its something important. You usually reserve your enthusiasm for self adulation, which is why I thought you were excited about making up this cosmic sting myth.
For me this obviously exciting adventure, for you, reminds of those stories that someone adds at the end when getting a disinterested response from the listener…”I guess you had to be there to get it”
Were you there?
dweller Said:
So, now the G-D of Israel who CREATED the universe has become in your bible the mere catalyst for a process of development in the womb. by a process of development in the womb I assume you mean conception and gestation. Interestingly you assert that the son of your god inherited no special godlike characters or “genes: from his father. Imagine being supermans son and getting no superpowers, what a disappointment for him. The Greek god’s sons got a better deal.
Actually I can, and have, catalyzed a process of development in a womb myself and surprisingly I was also able to produce a son with no superpowers. HMMMMMM? Such a big megillah for something humans do every day.
dweller Said:
Of course they must relate it directly, how else can they market their mythology to the unsuspecting gentiles? Because they began their mythology with a mythological “jewish” character they have had to spend 2000 years “relating” to the Hebrew bible, duh??? that s the hijacking (read the dictionary definition I posted for you)
dweller Said:
I keep telling you that there is no need to read “mein kampf” to know that hitler killed lots of Jews, their is no need to read the diary of a thief to see the stolen goods in his hand(do you deny that the christians include the hebrew bible with their own and use the hebrew bible as a means to authenticate their own bible. And yet the Jews have not in 2000 years bought into their narrative nor accepted their hijacking and grafting on their bible to ours and their attempts to replace the jews in the Jews own story.
but why haven’t the jews bought into this narrative as the christians and YOU have?
Why haven’t the Jews supported or attested to the facts prtrayed in your mythology?
Perhaps one of the reasons is this same thing that you beleive:
that the G_D of Israel had a son with a woman and that son was the Jewish messiah
dweller Said:
it is important to repeat to the forum here things you have stated to make sure that they really see you for what you are. You tell the jews here many things and one of them is this tired old line which I keep repeating:
Dweller believes that the G_D of Israel had a son with a woman and that son was the Jewish messiah
sometimes I repeat it like this:
Dweller believes that the G_D of Israel had a union with with a woman and the progeny was the Jewish messiah
and then there is your latest version which I am sure you will want to revise:
Dweller believes that the G_D of Israel catalyzed a development in the womb of a woman and she gave birth to His son who was the messiah of the Jewish bible.
and then there is my simple version of all these pigs wearing different shades of lipstick:
Dweller believes in a god that mated with a woman and pooped out a Jewish Messiah.
whichever version that readers here decide to accept as yours, without all your obfuscating embellishment, I believe that they cannot accept as factual your narrative regarding the G_D of Israel and would consider it like me both libelous and blasphemous. Certainly they would consider it untrue. Now logic demands that if they consider this repeatedly marketed swindle here of yours as a lie then it makes sense that if you lie about this then it is likely that you lie about everything else you alleged about yourself here. One must wonder why a person who believes that the G_D of Israel had a son with a woman who was the Jewish messiah would come to a website where many Jews would consider that blasphemous and insulting. This is certainly a belief that no jew here would consider Jewish and a belief that for 2000 years:
“There is no Jewish attestation or support of the NT narrative as factual.”.….
therefore, there is a reason why your swindle must be revisited and repeated, so that folks here can see your MO and the way in which you “market” your swindles.
@ mar55:
Any objective observer could say the same thing about the posts to which I was responding, and with FAR greater justification.
No. But I do often get bored.
What you MEAN is that it’s getting to be too much for YOU.
I wasn’t aware you spoke for the world. Were you elected or appointed?
It isn’t scrambled.
There isn’t room enough for both of us in there.
— Maybe YOU should flush it first.
Bernard Ross Said:
😛 😛
they have been reading his brilliant sayings just like you, praying to him, repeating his brilliant sayings for 2000 years and then they went out and, according to you, did the opposite of his “brilliant sayings” when they swindled, libeled, tortured and slaughters the Jews for 2000 years. Did your god who sent him on a special mission realize that billions would flock to his name and sayings for 2000 years and do the opposite of what he “advocated” according to you? Did your god plan that he would inspire people to the opposite of his teachings and persecute the jews?
I think that your god was having you on, giving you a “cosmic sting”.
The only mission that Jews can associate with your nitri name, and those who by the billions have purported to be his followers, is the horror story of their 2000 year persecution and still doing it today in his name. Therefore when you come here to tout your pagan mythological character to the Jews here you should remember that in the minds of Jews his name is connected with murder and persecution of the Jewish people….. now why would a G_D of Israel do that to His chosen people, what is He teaching his people? Do you think He wants the Jews to embrace the one who is associated for 2 millenia with the most horrible outcomes for the Jewish people? Why would the G_D of Israel surround your nitri with horror and evil, why would he indelibly imbue your nitri in the eyes of Jews with horror and evil? What do you think the G_D of Israel is saying to us with this? Do you beleive that he is telling us that we suffer because we did not embrace your nitri?
dweller Said:
dweller, life is unfair, and so am I
I’m not going to ‘feed’ you information which you will just misinterpret to your own ends. Not playing your ‘game’
Bernard and Yamit may have the time for this ‘chit chat’, but I don’t.
Just consider that the more Greeks try to prove how indispensable they are to Europe, the EU is about to ‘spit them out’ as a liability. At the same time no matter how the Islamic world seeks to destroy Israel, and Europe seeks to aid in this, more Muslims die than they ever hoped to kill Jews, and more wealth flows to Israel than EU sends to terrorists.
And, every year more people from European Xtian families either become Noakhide-observant, or convert to Torah observance. All without the ‘song and dance’ of the evangelicals or the increasingly ‘hail and brimstone’ messages from Vatican.
And, this is just the beginning 🙂
I wish you luck in patching up the dilapidated ‘house’ that is NT. Few find much comfort in it these days. Most people are just too educated now to be so easily led by faith alone. Belief, you see, is falsifiable, and Xtianity never had any evidence. When the time is right, Israel will testify. That too is in the Talmud 🙂
@ bernard ross:
Postulates.
There is no basis in Jewish scripture for any of the christian beliefs and that includes your flaky screed
Case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dweller Said:
LOL….. meanwhile over 2000 years we see that the Jews dont embrace, accept or follow the NT whereas the christians follow their NT and had to graft it on to the Hebrew bible by inventing your nitri myth. If the christians didnt hijack the hebrew bible then what are they doing with it now and over 2000 years? they hijacked it because they have no basis for their myths without the hebrew bible.
Dweller Said:
dweller Said:
so you are marketing the christian hijacking of the Hebrew bible AS the christian inheriting of the hebrew bible.
😛 😛 😛 😛
thats why you had to write that long obscure paragraph to obfuscate the truth as usual. Remember that the only authentication of your christ and his jewish disciples comes through the christians; therefore once you remove the fabricated mythology and obfuscation from your comment it is clear and simple:
…the christians hijacked(inherited) the Hebrew bible from the Jews.
(NB you say potayto and I say potahto??????)
bernard ross Said:
you did indeed originally describe it as a “union” with a woman but it does not matter which way you present your ludicrous narrative NOR what brand of lipstick you put on your pig
dweller Said:
lets put a different shade of lipstick on your pig to see if it measures up to what you are trying to market here:
You believe that the G_D of Israel [catalyzed a development in the womb] of a woman and the progeny of that [process, union, mating (take your pick)] was his son Jesus who was the Messiah written of in the Hebrew bible
Please feel free to insert the synonyms of your choosing but frankly even after putting a different shade of lipstick on your pig it still looks to me like this:
you beleive that your pagan god mated with a woman who pooped out a jewish messiah
the only difference I see is your insistence that your god who did these weird things is the same G_D of Israel whom the Jews worship. This is the same libel of ascribing lewd and lascivious acts to our G_D that the christians do. I dont mind you ascribing those acts to your own pagan god but pullease stop libeling ours.
Bernard Ross Said:
It seems that I do speak for the jews because over this period of 2000 years since your mythological character allegedly arrived and departed the Jews have not embraced nor accepted your NT as being factual which is what I have been saying:
Bernard Ross Said:
dweller Said:
It was and he gave it.
Bernard Ross Said:
dweller Said:
You are a damn liar. you said the same thing asking me for my definition of Christian and I provided you 3 dictionary definitions of Christian and you then spent weeks denying the definitions. the phrase is simple, you could have looked up each word you do not understand in a dictionary. which words do you not understand in this simple phrase?
DUH???????
Now show us all the next tactic you will come up with to WEASEL out of that fact, I am without one shred of doubt that you will try to weasel yourself out.
@ dweller:
D W E L L E R
Comment after comment the same thing in several versions.
Don’t you ever get tired?
I think your scrambled acid brain is getting to be too much
for you.
Do the world a favor. If you cannot get your head unscrambled
you can always put it in the toilet and FLUSH IT.
@ mrg3105:
@ yamit82:
It was a fair question, Mr G.
It was entitled to a real answer.
yamit82 Said:
Opposite to Greek learning
@ yamit82:
Well, of coursethere are NT references to virgin birth/conception. When have I have EVER suggested there weren’t???
What’s ‘BS’ about it?
Still awaiting the ‘proof’ of that.
references to virgin birth in the NTdweller Said:
Here is the BS AH!!!!!
Luke 1:26-38King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
No AH, you got nothing except BS, Pagan Myths and Lies!!~ 😛
yamit82 Said:
The opposite of Greek learning 🙂
@ bernard ross:
What I remember is that there was not as yet a separate religion, so they didn’t call themselves by any special name.
Their sense of faith was developing within them, but Jewish disciples were still Jews; gentile disciples were adherents of what amounted to Jewish ethical principles w/o Jewish dinim u’minhagim. The elements of a separate & distinct religion would not begin to emerge till after the Bar Kokhba Revolt in the 1st half of the next century, nor crystallize till much later.
What I remember is that you STILL haven’t defined your term “Jewish attestation or support,” as you use it here — so it’s not at clear that your assertion is true.
I’m not a Christian. And I didn’t make up any story.
No, actually it’s become unmistakably clear that THAT story was made up by you.
No, that’s what YOU seem to have done.
@ bernard ross:
No. Actually the libel is that YOU project that deliberate & persistent misstatement of what I said onto ME.
There’s been no hijacking. NT was written by Jews who believed what they said & wrote, and related directly to Torah and Nevi’im.
If you have not read it, then you are the last of persons positioned to make such claims.
You apparently ran out of steam a while ago and are now merely recycling your old, tired lines.
@ yamit82:
So YOU don’t think that’s knowable?
Why?
I didn’t say that; you did.
Have not YET lied on this blogsite.
@ yamit82:
Show me where either of them speaks of a ‘union.’
Still trying to prove a bunch of negatives, are you?
Prove that negative too. . . . .
Good luck proving that. And even if you could, that wouldn’t be sufficient to invalidate them.
You don’t know that what I’ve said is ‘false.’ You don’t even know that it’s ‘created.’
Nor do you know this either.
You’ve got nothing, boychik.
And it serves you right.
@ bernard ross:
Have never ‘attributed’ it to you.
The reference atop a post is not for attribution but to address a comment to somebody.
You may find value in using it for attribution, but I don’t.
In a post of mine, usually the bottommost of a series of blockquoted comments is the one to which I am directly responding — a fact of which you are by now well aware.
Not at all ridiculous but quite logical. In any case, it doesn’t matter what interests you. The statement was an integral part of the arc leading to the remark I was replying to. As long as it remains impossible to reference to a post from an earlier page, maintaining continuity is essential.
My reply was to the point. Moreover, my reply was all that your comment inspired. If you find the reply ‘feeble,’ look to yourself.
‘Billions’ did not hear what he said; neither heard it from him, nor heard it from anybody ELSE. Covered this subject a few times already. Have you been neglecting to take your your Aricept?
dweller Said:
Luke and Matthew say he did!!!! Are they like you liars????
Funny only Luke and Matthew knew about your god screwing a Jewish woman and they couldn’t agree on the details (the important details).
There was never any Jesus, Never a Matthew or Luke, never a Messiah birthed by a union of a god and a Jewish woman. The term nitzri is your own invention and can be found nowhere except in your own sick warped mind.
You have in fact created and supported false narratives as a foundation for a whole theology. Since the basic foundation of your beliefs are based on lies and myths, the rest by definition are also lies and myths. Your concept of god and messiah saviors exist nowhere in Jewish scriptures. They are 100% pagan concepts. That makes you a Pagan as well doesn’t it?
dweller Said:
How do you know that?
Prove it!!!
You can’t?
Then you are one sicko lying SOB.
@ bernard ross:
You’re begging the question again. I never said or suggested anything of the sort. Christ never inspired anybody to persecute Jews. You cannot lay that on him.
You’re just trying to put words in my mouth, and it won’t work. I repeat what I said above:
“Starting a new religion (or renewing an old one) was not part of his mission.”
All self-styled Christians believe that CHRIST himself fulfilled Judaism.
Only SOME self-styled Christians, however, believe that they have ‘replaced’ the Jews. LOTS of Christians reject that proposition out of hand, and their numbers are growing.
Flat-out wrong. Persecution of the Jews was not the result of his mission.
Of course God foresaw that. I already said so, earlier.
Nonsense. Your deliberate & persistent misstatement of my remarks by which you create a strawman to knock down (since you can’t deal w/ what I said on its own terms) — THAT is by far more ludicrous than any actual narrative. It’s also dishonest.
What I said was NEITHER ridiculous, NOR pagan NOR a fairy tale. And the fact that you had to deliberately restate it as if it were only shows that you can’t handle it as STATED.
Unlike yourself I’ve never libeled anybody. Nor is what I said ‘perverted.’ Must be the man in the mirror shooting daggers at you.
It is you who bear false witness against Him, not I; you who insult Him, not I.
They are insulting to nobody — it’s obviously you who are doing the insulting w/ your deliberate twisting of my words.
NOR DO YOU SPEAK FOR THE JEWS.
Nor is there a syllable of ‘blasphemy’ in my remarks
— and this is one yiddle who doesn’t give a flying fart WHAT a slime-bucket like yourself thinks.
God doesn’t have ‘unions’ with anybody. But imbecilic perverts who don’t know any better like to say so.
The God of Israel is PLEASED with my remarks. If you don’t like them, I suggest you take up your complaint with Him.
@ bernard ross:
This is just more of your transparent evasiveness. I don’t need a dictionary. I need your definition of the language you use as you use it.
But it’s obvious from what I told you that the pagan myths are NOT AT ALL like what I said. Yet you keep trying to fit what I said to that entirely contrary mold. If pagan myths make more “sense” to you than what I said, I can see why you’re too scared to read the gospels for yourself. That tells us plenty about you.
Why indeed. . . . You’ve said it all, right there.
It is nothing of the kind.
You’re fullovit. My antecedents were all Jews.
I thought I answered your question quite adequately (post #10, above). But since you’re slow on the uptake, I’ll give it to you more explicitly:
No, they did NOT ‘invent’ or ‘author’ “their Bible which they call ‘OT’.” Quite the contrary, the 3rd & 4th century gentile Christians inherited the Tanach — actually Torah & Nevi’im only, as Ktuvim (except for Megillat Rut & maybe T’hillim) were not yet compiled — from the Christ’s original Jewish disciples & the 1st cpl ensuing generations, NONE of whom were ‘Christians,’ as he’d never called anybody by that name.
Yes. It’s called the gospel. You know, that book you’re terrified of examining? It’s time you read the memo, and stopped making an ass of yourself.
Now, that’s rich. You refuse to read the book — and then you accuse ME of putting words in the Author’s mouth. What boundless chutzpa.
@ mrg3105:
psssst… it looks like they are getting you hooked on chit chat…..lol
@ mrg3105:
What way is that?
Like most, Asher Meza doesn’t understand Torah learning the ‘Jewish’ way
@ bernard ross:
Bernie you are on a roll. I’m thoroughly enjoying your dissecting the (nitzri?) and his most ardent myth pusher.
Interesting Take on the whole Messiah ‘SCHTICK’:
Moshiach Later (maybe)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mxUtkY-fSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mxUtkY-fSw
dweller Said:
that is true, especially since there is no evidence for his existence and the narrative has no Jewish attestation or support.
However, that does not prevent christians and catholics from beliving that he was divine from the beginning
Bernard ross Said:
perhaps you have reading difficulties, it meant that my understanding of christian and catholic beliefs, you of course, took it out of context.
dweller Said:
my understanding of christian and catholic beliefs was correct and my understanding of the Jesus narrative is that it is a fairy tale about mythological jews that has not jewish attestation or support.
dweller Said:
ridiculous and libelous, as pagan a myth as those that went before with some lipstick on the pig to obscure the obvious absurdity of gods mating with women. the libel is that you project your pagan myth on the G_D pf Israel.
dweller Said:
Were you and your friends around when the NT was written or when the first churches pretended that their pagan myth was a continuation of the Hebrew bible. Unless you are special like your nitri you and your friends were unlikely to have committed the original hijacking but you and your “friends” aid and abet the hijacking today by spreading the lie that they did not hijack it, revise it and then substitute themselves for the jews in the jewish story.
Yamit Said:
dont you remember “they were called christians in acts? did you add a couple of centuries?
remember that there is no Jewish attestation or support for your nitri and Nt as factual,
you christians made that story up along with your pagan myth of gods into women pooping out jewish messiahs.
dweller Said:
you keep attributing that statement to me but I never wrote it, that killing, sacrifice,hasoton story is ridiculous and of no interest to me
Bernard Ross Said:
Billions of people over a 2000 year period called themselves christians and followers of Jesus and were, according to them, repeatedly and consistently inspired by his teachings to persecute the jews for 2000 years……… and all you’ve got is that feeble reply? We shouldn’t be surprised because all of your support for your nitri myths has been feeble.
Either yout nitri was really your soton or your god was a comedian for sending him on a special mission whereby billions of people would hear his “brilliant” sayings and then proceed consistently to do the opposite for 2000 years. sounds like a “cosmic sting” 😛
dweller Said:
get a dictionary, none of the words in the sentence are difficult to fathom. Which words do you not understand?
Bernard Ross Said:
you may have told but you make no sense…. all the other pagan myths like yours have gods mating women and popping out half gods. Your story makes no sense and you appear to have got it from the followers of your mythological character. Your character had less special characteristics than most of the other pagan myths before him. I see you ranting and raving about the intracies of your weird story but its all a fairy tale, why bother with the story. However you tell the story it is still ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than your god begetting a son is that he begot a jewish messiah and yet there is no Jewish attestation to this so called “fact”. Its a hijacking, you hijack the Hebrew bible and graft on your mythological pagan tale, later on your antecedents decided that they were also the replacement of the Jewish people.
dweller Said:
you keep avoiding my question: did the christians, invent or author their bible which they call the old testament?. they hijacked the hebrew bible and grafted their pagan mythology onto it.
Bernard Ross Said:
How do you know, did your god tell you, did he send you a memo? I think you are putting words in his mouth. it is interesting that you see the result of your nitri inspiring billions topersecute Jews as being a renewal of an old religion, just like the christians believe they fulfilled judaism and replaced the jews.
dweller Said:
dweller Said:
the only result of his mission experienced by the Jewish people is the 2000 year serial and chronic persecution of the Jews. If his father was a god and omniscient and sent him on a mission he must have foresaw this result: that those who purported to follow you nitris teachings, according to you, did the opposite of those teachings consistently for 2000 years.
dweller Said:
LOL, nothing could be more ludicrous than your narrative of a god in a union with a woman and their progeny was the Jewish messiah of the Hebrew bible. that ridiculous pagan fairy tale is enough to know of a narrative which is purporting to be factual AND about the jews.
Its time you put your nonsense to rest and stop coming here with your perverted libeling stories about the G_D of Israel having a union with a woman and begetting the jewish messiah. You should save these insulting lies, where you bear false witness on the Hebrew G_D, for you sunday school or catechism class. You come here touting your christian bible with insulting narratives to the Jews here and believe that because you say you are a Jew you may speak any blasphemy here. Perhaps your god had a union with a woman and begot a messiah but please dont involve the G_D of Israel in your pagan narratives.
Bernard ross Said:
meaning instead of being sent on a special mission against your hasoton perhaps your god stung you and instead sent…….. 😛
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Qfbrc1jdo
@ bernard ross:
But then, your ‘understanding’ is grounded in fantasy.
Jesus was NO ‘deity’ from the beginning.
He said, “Of myself I can do nothing. . . . the Father who dwelleth within me, HE doeth the works.”
This is somebody who thinks he’s ‘God’???
If he were God, there’s damned-near nothing that of himself he could NOT do.
When asked the time of his return, he answers that nobody but the Father knows. “Of that day and hour, no one knoweth, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father.” Mk 13:32
If he were God, he would be all-knowing, as is the Father; yet he freely & unambiguously disclaims any such knowledge.
It is clear — from the beginning
— that he is not omnipotent, and not omniscient — not a deity of any sort or measure.
@ mrg3105:
The only thing that has happened AGAIN here is that as soon as I followed up on your musings, you have run off on yet another irrelevant tangent (several of them actually), as you did last time, and the time before, and the time before that, and the time. . . . .
The bottom line, notwithstanding all your meanderings, is that a book used for by an individual for study — irrespective of its contents — is going to look worn after a certain period of time. A scroll, OTOH, owned by a community (irrespective of its provenance) and used solely for ritual & ceremony, is unlikely to be allowed to acquire the same appearance of wear.
No such ‘proof.’ When the gospels were written, there was no ‘Xty’ — only a sect of Judaism, which used the same Torah & Neviim as the rest of the community.
Take it up w/ Ptolemy Philadelphus.
When was the last time a Xtian family spent $60K on a family ‘Holy Bible’, and then gave it away to their church?
Xtianity was lying about the Torah even in the 4th century CE while they were still purportedly observing Shabbat on Saturn-day 🙂
Liar Liar, toga on fire 🙂
dweller Said:
See, you stepped in it again dweller 🙂
The ‘congregational’ scroll is usually donated by a family THESE DAYS by a family which pays for a professional scribe to write it. They OWN it until the ownership is transferred to the congregation treasurer.
Of course in the days of early xtianity, and even through middle ages, all Jewish families wrote their own scroll. There were no Humashim. Some Sephardim emigrated to modern Israel bringing with them scrolls of the entire Tanakh written by members of their families going back 5-6 generations.
Indeed, all Jewish males are obligated to write their own Torah, and these skills in the European Jewish diaspora were only lost due to frequent and traumatic experiences with the xtian ‘relationship management’
So, Xtians have an ‘oldest printed Bible’, but the Jews have no ‘oldest Humash’, but there is an 800 year old Torah scroll.
They weren’t my friends, and they wouldn’t know how to write the Xtian Bible in Greek 🙂 Do you?
Its funny how Xtians keep calling themselves an Abrahamite ‘religion’, but they have no traditions from Abraham to back up this claim. The ink used for writing the Torah today was first formulated by Avraham. Your ‘Holy Bible’ is printed in Shanghai? 🙂
And the proof that Xtianity hijacked the Torah is available online 🙂 The 4th century Codex Sinaiticus manuscript (“the Sinai Book”) pages show not just the written text — an English translation accompanies the original Greek. So where is it derived from that Moses received the Torah in Greek?! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Greek, even Koine Greek, dates to fragmentary Greek inscriptions date from 770–750 BCE
Given the dating I have the theory that Greeks got the alphabet from Chabbad House in Athens 🙂
@ mrg3105:
Silly comparison.
You compare a book that is owned & worked over by INDIVIDUALS
— with a scroll owned by the CONGREGATION, and whose use is explicitly ceremonial.
To make a suitable comparison, you should’ve compared your friends’ NT with a chumash that was used for personal study.
@ bernard ross:
You make it sound like my friends did the ‘hijacking.’
Plain & simple-minded droppings from the east end of a west-bound horse.
“They” were Jews who BELIEVED what they said & wrote. ‘Hijacked’ nothing.
Yeah, right.
Just like it was “pathetic to try & obfuscate” what was ALSO once “well-known” about ‘greedy, grasping, predatory JEWS ‘. . . .
It’s YOU who are truly pathetic.
@ yamit82:
Who cares?
Irrelevant & off-point.
You had made an issue over whether Tanach used the term, “THE Messiah.” I made clear it was stupid, petty & irrelevant; then gave a post-Biblical example to show that your point
— was pointless.
No but you seem to.
YOU are the peddler here, Huffypuffy.
You’re more in the dark about me today than you were on the day I showed up here eight years ago.
Never had any use for a closet. Must be yourself you mean.
@ yamit82:
That’s right; He’s not a biological entity. He’s not corporeal or physical.
But the Virgin Birth/Conception was NOT about Elohim ‘reproducing Himself’ (nor does He need to reproduce Himself, as He is self-existent & immortal) — it was about a direct creation — just as Adam had been, and as the angels had been. But this time it had to be thru the existing, fallen, human family: because He does not forsake His creation.
This was not about Adonoi ‘breeding’ Himself to a woman; probably something more on the order of catalyzing a process of development in the womb.
I might add that by discarding the Talmud xtians have no idea HOW Moshiakh is to conduct the redemption 🙂
Redemption is after all a type of transaction which is why many yeshivot start boys on the third chapter of Bava Batra 😉
@ yamit82:
Except that those who attributed that name to Jeshua were themselves JEWS, and that was a couple of centuries BEFORE there were such things (in Judea or anywhere else) as “Christians.”
I surely know fewer xtians than anyone here.
Yet I was once invited to an xtian family, and they showed me their family Bible, which of course included Tanakh with the gospels.
What amazed me is that their NT was well-used, dog-eared, with notes pencilled in, looking decidedly old.
If ONE LETTER in the Torah becomes defective, the entire congregation brings in a sofer to fix it so it looks NEW!
And this sort of brought home an irony to me.
The Torah always looks new, until it is retired through use over sometimes 2-300 years. The NT rarely lasts from one generation to the next!
@ bernard ross:
The rule never fails: Always leave it to a goy, OR a Jew-wannabe who secretly thinks he’s a goy, to play the numbers game.
Nu, what would you expect them to say?
Right, a Jew says those self-professed ‘Christians’ were not in fact followers of another Jew. What’s more, that other Jew unambiguously agrees with me — not with them. Yup, that’s about the size of it.
@ bernard ross:
Told you: his mission was not that of generating a large following. That was strictly incidental to it.
Coming back to you perhaps; not to me. I clearly told you, Jesus is/was not ‘God’ in any way, shape or manner. The only God is the Almighty who conceived haNitzri for His purposes and gave him a special mission from the moment he was conceived.
At this point, YOU don’t even know what ‘right’ consists of.
@ bernard ross:
Yes, billions. Starting a new religion (or renewing an old one) was not part of his mission.
That figures.
You’d see for yourself just HOW ludicrous these speculations of yours are if you read what he said.
Did not say the mission ‘resulted’ in the persecution.
Intended? — of course not. God is not only omnipotent, but also omnibenevolent.
Foresaw? — of course. God is not only omnipotent & omnibenevolent, but also omniscient.
I haven’t got him wrong.
Only a Jew could get him RIGHT.
I got him right.
I’ve no idea what you just said here. (I wonder if you do either.) But I will repeat this much:
— Your speculations are ludicrous, and only make you look all-the-sillier, because you won’t read what he actually said, and put all that nonsense to rest.
@ bernard ross:
Replacement Theology is a hijacking job.
The Xtn Bible is not.
You confuse the two, because you’ve never read the Bible — OT or NT.
@ bernard ross:
It was no trick. You assume that because you think everybody’s like YOU — and slime is all you know. You used the expression “Jewish sources” many, many times, and never defined it despite my frequently asking you to do so.
Instead of defining it, you changed the expression to “Jewish attestation & support.” You still haven’t defined that either, slimebag.
I’m still awaiting a definition.
The pretending is strictly yours. The language is equivalent — six of one, half-dozen of the other — and you still haven’t define it, despite my continued request. I want your definition as you use it.
Maybe this “blame-the-mark” shit worked for you in business but I’m not impressed, you deceitful slimebag. Define your term “Jewish attestation & support.”
Not a logical inference after I explicitly denied the characterization. From THAT point forward, it was a deliberate, contemptuous misrepresentation.
BULLSHIT. I told you plenty about what the ‘process’ was NOT:
Unlike ruach elohim, a pagan ‘god’ was NOT spirit, but physical & corporeal — so the ‘process’ of Christ’s conception very obviously was not sexual.
The Greek gods were classics of the genre. They were very obviously created in the image of Man, not vice versa; that’s why nobody took them any more seriously than contemporary adults take Santa Claus seriously.
They had human frailties, writ large — they were subject to jealousy, spite, hatred, pettiness, envy, greed, vanity, the whole nine yards. They were constantly having affairs with each other & w/ each others’ spouses (of both genders). They thought nothing of cheating, and did not feel bound to keep their word.
The notion that they would ‘mate’ with humans (as well as, animals) was standard for them, though clearly absurd, since immortality made offspring unnecessary for them, and the physical pleasure attendant to sexual congress, utterly superfluous, as nature’s gifts are never gratuitous. The Greek gods were very obviously not real.
No way a man conceived by the Holy Spirit could be a ‘god.’ DIVINITY IS SELF-EXISTENT. A ‘god’ always was, always will be. If a ‘god’ can be created or destroyed, then what was created or destroyed was not self-existent, and thus is NOT divine in any way, shape or manner.
If you believe such a thing is possible, you’re clueless.
If you find the pagan myths more ‘logical’ than what I’ve said about them, THAT SAYS IT ALL where you’re concerned.
AS USUAL YOU SPEAK ONLY OF YOURSELF, SLIMEBAG.
@ dweller:
http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/index.php/judaism-articles/2011/07/the-christianity-cult-and-its-deceptions/