By Ted Belman
From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.
Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.
Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.
The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.
Everyone will be happier.
dove Said:
doesn’t sound to me that they didn’t follow Jesus if they considered him a god.
@ bernard ross:
Yes! That is exactly what I am saying. Up until the 1800`s catholics were not allowed to read the bible. They were not allowed to make their own decisions. All their directive comes from the Vatican.
They were more followers of Mary than Jesus. Jesus was hardly mentioned. In a manger at xmas – on a cross at easter. In between it was all about Mary, Paul the Pope the Vatican.
dove Said:
are you saying that the catholics were not followers of Jesus?
yamit82 Said:
Dweller told us that his god was yeshu’s father and I dont beleive that his god was a descendant of men like David?
gosh, it looks like a conundrum seeking a solution from dweller.
Perhaps the nuns taught him this riddle’s solution in catechism class?
@ bernard ross:
It is two different religions. It has only been in recent years that some catholics call themselves christians. theological differences. The catholics are more from Paul – abstinence, Mary, lots of statues.
Christianity claims they are followers of Jesus. The die hard evangelicals say that alcohol is a sin, dancing etc. Marriage is ok.
The catholic church is trying to malign with the christians to make it one religion under the Vatican. Christians won`t go for that. It would have to be by force…..a taste of their own medicine.
yamit82 Said:
lucky for him he can claim not to be able to play all the video refutation you posted in a continuous waterfall of rebuke. Notice he never tries to refute the arguments in the videos.
dove Said:
I thought they were also christians and followers of Jesus
dove Said:
you tell me 🙂
@ dweller:
More proof for his Unique geeezuz Myth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdpRwkl-mdw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdpRwkl-mdw
@ bernard ross:
That is only half the problem – the other half are the catholics who are followers of the pope.
I personally am not a follower type – never have been….I am a leader. 🙂
I am just studying Hebrew – thought I would take a peek and see how you were doing with the mouse…lol
dweller Said:
LOL, you were the one saying that instead of using the 3 dictianary definition for a christian which states “a follower of Jesus” we should use what they call themselves and how they define themselves. We know that these billions of people, over 2000 years, called themselves christians and followers of Jesus much more than we know anything about the Gospels.
In fact, we also know that everything we know contained in your gospel and NT has come through THEIR hands, the hands of the ones who call themselves christians: their popes, their churches, their parsons, their priests , their printing presses, their distributions networks. The NT you keep citing comes through the hands of those very same self professed christians and followers of Jesus who libeled, swindled, tortured and slaughtered Jews for 2000 years.
Those whom you rely on for the support for your gospel “facts” carried on a 2000 year pogrom against the jews. In opposition to those “facts”, are those who did not accept those narratives: the 2000 year victims of their persecution. There is no Jewish attestation or support of the NT narrative as factual. Yet you choose to rely on the serial genocidal nutters fairy tale.
Perhaps you are the one who should be called “spaghetti and meatballs” as you appear to be the only confused person out of the billions.
bernard ross Said:
dweller Said:
MY bad, you said G_D had a union with a woman and the progeny was your yeshu who was the messiah written of in the Hebrew bible. same rubbish with diferent synonyms, same fairy tales, same fiction, same disinterest in reading it. You love to find details to twist into ludicrous red herrings and avoid the main issue…. what a chef!!!!!
dweller Said:
I already told you:
bernard ross Said:
I also told you this:
bernard ross Said:
It is not the fairy tale which I am afraid of, it is the serial chronic behavior of those who call themselves christians, who purport to follow Jesus and have been inspired by his “brilliant sayings” to libel, swindle, torture and slaughter Jews for 2000 years. There is only one thing that they all have in common and that is that they are followers of Jesus. All those different nations and races have received their inspiration to slaughter and libel Jews from this ONE single person; the one common bond uniting them ALL.
dweller Said:
It matters not what you care when discussing facts. Billions of people over a 2000 year period, who self identified themselves as christians and followers of Jesus, disagree with you. these include christian popes, bishops, priests,parsons, orgs, etc .
On the other hand we have you who says they were not christians nor followers of Jesus and yet you tout yourself as a Jew and NOT a christian. It appears that the self professed Jew Dweller has decided that billions of self professed christians over 2000 years are wrong and he is right.
😛 😛 😛 😛
and what is the support that this “self professed Jew” cites for his unsupported statement:
dweller Said:
The “self professed Jew” cites the christians bible to conclude that billions of christians, who call themselves christians and followers of Jesus, are wrong.
And who does he quote?
He quotes a mythological character whose only support comes from the christians and their bible.
Is he taking coals to Newcastle perhaps?
Is he bringing them the latest “good news”?
😛 😛 😛 😛
@ dweller:
Yup Case Closed!!! 🙂
Why Jesus is not the Messiah 1 – Luke’s Genealogy of Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEylGfHtHvw
@ dweller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyHCxl-5a0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RjJXduuNlg
dweller Said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5EKaY1B8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0pgcHkrP0
@ dove:
Not even slightly.
And how would you know when you’d encountered a sane, rational person?
You don’t speak for the Jewish People. You speak for yourself (and not very honestly at that).
Yes; by all means, do that.
@ bernard ross:
No lie of any sort (nor have I yet lied on this site). I think I should know what I was writing about, and I was writing about you.
Yep, they are my words, you bet — my words about PresentCompany.
My words, absolutely. But there’s no lie IN those words.
No; my words ABOUT you were unmistakably inspired BY you.
@ bernard ross:
Only in your fondest fantasies.
In the real world, however, it’s ENTIRELY deniable, very easily deniable, and not at all a ‘fact.’ They were not followers of Jesus
— as he himself makes undeniably clear.
And as for being ‘just like’ me? — No. I’ve never been a persecutor of ANYBODY. You can take that story and shove it up your keister.
In fact:
Take all the bark off their tree
and take the bark off yours
— and you& they could be kissing cousins.
They can call themselves “Spaghetti & Meatballs,” for all I care; that doesn’t mean they follow Jesus. HE says they DON’T. [Mt 7:21-23]. Case closed.
@ bernard ross:
This time you are not merely begging the question again.
This time you are also LYING outright.
I did NOT “tell you” anything of the sort about “gods entering into women” in re the nativity narrative.
This is your repeated interpolation — despite your having been corrected multiple times already — and has nothing to do with anything I (or anybody else) said.
‘Cannot’ read?
Do not ‘want’ to read?
This is ONE ‘fairy tale’ you haven’t got the balls to read.
You’re flat-out scared to read it.
dweller Said:
I also am disinterested in reading “mein Kampf” but I am still able to discern that Hitler inspired the slaughter of millions of jews. Perhaps some of those nazis were not real nazis, perhaps they did not subscribe to all the nazi dogma. It is irrelevant to me because those who called themselves nazis killed the Jews and when those calling themselves christians and followers of Jesus kill jews for 2000 years I am suspicious of anything or anyone connected with that ideology. The very last thing I would do is accept their testimony as witnesses regarding any Jewish issue. Continuing to belong to an org associated with so much murder is in itself morally questionable. Apparently there are nazi orgs and KKK trying to reinvent themselves and pretend they do not follow the habits of their past, but I wonder then why belong to that same org?
dweller Said:
as soon as you told me about gods entering into women and popping out jewish messiahs I knew it was fiction, a novel, fairy tale, etc. I am only interested in “christianity” for its dastardly effects on jews and not in the mythology it propounds. I cannot read, nor do I want to read every fairy tale published. In a discussion with you the mythology is irrelevant because you relgiously beleive that the mythology and characters are real with no evidence or support except through christian sources which I consider tainted and biased because they swindled, libeled,torured and slaughtered jews for 2000 years. It is also irrelevant becuase you deny that those who did the dastardly acts were christians even though they are the billions calling themselves christians for 2000 years. Even today the followers of Jesus in their BDS churches libel Israel and the Jews and fund and give moral support to NGO’s affiliated with jew killing orgs. Although there is no jewish attestation to the factual existence and mythology of your nitzri you have chosen to believe the jew libelers of 2000 years.
bernard ross Said:
dweller Said:
actually, a liar again, it was YOU who made these “brilliant sayings:
dweller Said:
your words liar, the words inspired by your “brilliant sayer”
Bernard ross Said:
why its Dweller of course 🙂
dweller Said:
but I was referring to the billions of christians who libeled, swindled, tortured and slaughtered the Jews for almost 2000 years. apparently those billions, their churches, leaders, orgs etc. have a different interpretation of your nitzri sayings and have that different interpretation repeatedly over 2000 years. they call themselves christians and follow Jesus. You must be wrong as its your “perspective” that they are not christian but you deny that you are christian so it makes sense that they know their christian dogma and heroes better than you.
dweller Said:
an undeniable fact!
dweller Said:
Maybe you are right I will sleep and awake to be my old astute and prescient self.
You on the other hand will remain as always yourself; displaying a Pathetic blind brain dead AH with unwavering hubris.
@ yamit82:
Yet you can believe that a straightforward reply is only that.
It’s now 7 am your time, and the sawdust that does your thinking for you is beginning to congeal; you really should sleep. You’re taking everything (esp about yourself) WAY too seriously.
dweller Said:
I can’t believe you are so dumb and obtuse as to actually supply what for you is a rational straight faced answer to BR use of sarcastic mockery. Unbelievable and also Pathetic display of blind, unwavering hubris. You are such a brain dead uniliteralist.
@ bernard ross:
You have more in common not only with the “professors” you cite than w/ any Xtns of my acquaintance, but you also have more in common w/ the BDS crowd than does anybody else to allude to.
Like those who obligatorily belonged to the medieval church without affiliating out of personal conviction, you blindly follow a bigoted, horribly prejudicial path. The only difference between you and the them is a matter of scale. The motivation is identical.
The trivialization is your doing, not mine. You try to equate those who are Xtn out of conviction (sometimes at great expense & danger to themselves) w/ those who merely followed a mindless herd, often driven by kings & priests. Such groups have NOTHING in common w/ each other. To suggest that they are equivalent is patently dishonest.
@ bernard ross:
LMSS. The expression, “all in a day’s work,” doesn’t mean it took all day. It means it was simple & routine, like any other ordinary task in the course of the day. (For somebody who virtually sleeps with a dictionary, you don’t seem to know your way around it very well.)
Asked & answered:
“YOU would, apparently — as it is, far-and-away, the supersessionist types who go to the greatest lengths (greater than Jews) to deny or ignore Jesus’ Jewish background & essence. In fact, you should perhaps get together with these folks to compare notes.”
It’s impossible to believe that. If you were truly interested in making such distinctions, you wouldn’t shy away from reading NT. No serious researcher neglects to read the basic sources for the very matters he presumes to discuss. Your remarks are strictly disingenuous.
@ bernard ross:
It’s YOUR deviant perversions were talking about here; nobody else’s. But I’ve disposed of this bullshit already. You can keep repeating it as much as you like, but no readers except your one or two partner cranks even bothers to read your slop on this page any more. You’re a one-trick pony, and they know what to expect.
No follower of Jesus ever did those things. He made crystal clear that no such person was any follower of his. “Begone, depart from me” he said, “I never knew you.” Mt 7:21-23.
And now YOU are not merely close to violating the Ninth Commandment, but indeed have DONE so.
Look it up for yourself, moron.
“and yet the christians have mixed paganism into their narrative , e.g. 25th december, Oestre… etc”…”
Absolutely not. I’m referring, rather, to the morals expounded in the Gospel.
For somebody who has never cracked the basic book on the subject, you sound as if you thought you knew something.
But you’re such a lying bozo.
dweller Said:
it took you a whole day to come up with that? 😛
Bernard Ross Said:
the right, and short, answer is Dweller 😛
dweller Said:
my interest is not taking fairy tales as fact, both your nitzri and the NT have no more factual basis than the chronicles of Narnia or goldilocks and her 3 chatty bears.
dweller Said:
LOL, it never happened 😛 😛 😛
the rest is your usual repetitive blah blah blahBernard ross Said:
I recognize that Pauline marketing technique, the BDS use it all the time…..”the jews are the new nazis”. Like your friend CA you equate my pointing out the despicable serial behavior of christians persecuting Jews for 2000 years with their actual despicable behavior.
you merely trivialize and minimize the fact that they and you had one thing in common: followers of Jesus.
@ bernard ross:
As long as there are direct references made to it.
It doesn’t attempt to do that. God did that long ago.
What it DOES do is show that you don’t know which end is up in that dept.
Not especially. All in a day’s work, actually.
No but it IS fun listening to you gnash your teeth over it.
@ bernard ross:
YOU would, apparently — as it is, far-and-away, the supersessionist types who go to the greatest lengths (greater than Jews) to deny or ignore Jesus’ Jewish background & essence. In fact, you should perhaps get together with these folks to compare notes. You both evince an unmistakable interest in writing haNitzri out of Jewish existence altogether, albeit for different reasons; strange bedfellows you are indeed.
@ bernard ross:
You bet I did.
But God said it before I did.
He says He is no respecter of persons.
“there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of bribes’…” 2 Chr 19:7
@ dweller:
How many times are you going to post that long list of “references” attempting to prove you are a Jew? Do you love looking at what you post over and over again, do you swoon each time you look at it? I think you believe you are creating works of art like Michelangelo. 🙂
bernard ross Said:
you never explained why you introduced your deviant perversions into the conversation thread. Apparently this deviance is related to those “brilliant” sayings of your nitzri which you try to emulate.
dweller Said:
like the NT and your god in women narratives?
dweller Said:
those who called themselves christians, who identify and followed jesus did those things. I posted 3 dictionary definitions stating a christian is one who follows Jesus…. therefore you are a christian, you are like them and the one thing in common that those jew killers and libelers had was that they were followers of Jesus which you also have in common with them. A commonality which obtained for almost 2000 years across many races, nations and ethnicity who persecuted the Jews: they were followers of Jesus. What was the “brilliant saying” which inspired those billions of christians to repeatedly slaughter the Jews? could it be Jesus?
dweller Said:
bernard Ross Said:
dweller Said:
LOL, are you referring to the morals which inspired the christians to serially libel, swindle, torture and slaughter Jews for 2000 years? In that case I prefer their superficial pagan fabrications to their, and your, morality.
bernard ross Said:
the narrative originated with the pagans before christianity. They also, along with you, regard themselves as moral; but they persecuted Jews for 2000 years and you psychobabble, lie, market, deceive and promote your deviant perversions here, which you must have learned from those “brilliant sayings”, like these
dweller Said:
2000 years of persecution and those billions had one thing in common: they were followers of Jesus just like you 😛
@ bernard ross:
LSHMSFOAIDMT. What has been proven here — and indeed many times — is that you wouldn’t recognize an honest man if he were near enough to spit in your eye. I think your much vaunted experiences in the world of business & finance have left you so crippled that the very concept of genuine honesty is too alien to you to permit you to recognize the real article when it does appear.
I am quite honest, that’s not the problem. The problem is your inveterate MALICIOUSNESS masquerading as regard for Jews & Judaism. (In fact, if I were dishonest, you & I would be perfectly compatible.)
Yet even if I were dishonest, I could still never get my head far enough up my keister to see the world thru your eyes, because even a dishonest person needn’t necessarily be malicious — as you most surely are. Simple dishonesty has only marginal bearing on a man’s perception of the world — but maliciousness is a whole different order & magnitude of pathology, and it DOES skew ones’ view of reality
None of the Xtns in my acquaintance display questionable behavior of any sort — and even if they did, it wouldn’t keep me from examining the gospel on its own terms, nor impel me to judge the meaning or significance of its teaching based on their failings & shortcomings.
Am still awaiting your definition of “Jewish sources.” You use the expression routinely, and I have directly asked you a dozen times or more for your definition of the term as you use it. You conspicuously ignore the request, while continuing to use the term.
I don’t know any collectives, and I don’t deal with any collectives. I deal with individual persons, and nobody I ever dealt with ever libeled, swindled, tortured, or slaughtered, or hijacked ANYBODY or any thing, or ever made common cause with anybody who did. All they ever did was try, earnestly & steadfastly, to live by the teachings of their Master as they were given to understand those teachings.
The ‘professors’ YOU’ve described bear an extraordinarily striking resemblance to those grotesquely fearful, fanciful images of foul & filthy, greedy & grasping, predatory & pussified, blood-sucking, hooked-nosed ‘Jews’ — which images were used to ‘justify’ making life miserable for my Jewish forbears.
— And it occurs to me that BOTH sets of images had ultimately the same place of origin. . . .
@ bernard ross:
You really don’t get it, do you?
It doesn’t MATTER one way or another what YOU believe. I don’t comment to persuade.
If you accept my remarks, fine.
If you reject them, fine.
If you can’t make up your mind about them, fine.
If you don’t read them, fine.
Neither my world nor anybody else’s revolves about what you do or don’t believe about me or about anything else.
@ bernard ross:
Superficial, cultural tchatchkes. The morals are not pagan. They are as upright a group of people as one could ever hope to meet.
Not that one. YOU obviously could’t get that one right, but they do. Self-professed Xtns do NOT regard the nativity narrative as entailing an eternal, corporeal, PHYSICAL ‘god’ (already a conceptual oxymoron, right off the shelf) cavorting sexually w/ a woman.
@ bernard ross:
You don’t ‘wonder’ anything of the sort; you know quite well I’m talking about YOURS, you lying sack of slime.
No, I’m unable to control your proclivity for indulging smear tactics. However, I have, as a matter of necessity, become rather accomplished at identifying them and calling you out on it.
That is evidently one matter to which you will not have your answer till you’ve actually READ those sayings.
@ mrg3105:
The Jewish educators who taught me would appear to take the contrary view; so if it’s important to you, I suggest you take it up with THEM, not me. For myself, the matter is strictly (to coin a phrase) academic.
Mr G, as I thought, you are consistently thick-&-heavy on conclusions and pronouncements
— while consistently thin-&-light on evidence and reasoning.
I thank you for your considered opinion. If ever I decide to pursue Talmud, I shall be sure to leave you off my short list of teachers to choose from for guidance & instruction.
I don’t ‘need’ to understand anything that is not, in fact, true.
Torah is Torah. Talmud is Talmud. And opinion is opinion.
Begging the question again, I see.
Nobody like myself EVER burned any Talmud OR any Torah — in Europe or anywhere else — regardless of WHAT name they were called by
— and you are perilously close, Sir, to violating the Ninth Commandment.
And why would you hope that?
Is this latter not what you’ve been trying to do all this time?
mrg3105 Said:
You bet I do !!! I am American by birth and Texan by the Grace of G-D !!!!!! I stand the equal to any Man or insect.
dweller Said:
I wonder why you keep introducing your deviant perversions, proclivities and preferences into the thread?
Dweller Said:
Bernard Ross Said:
apparently you are unable to control your perverted obssessions. Did you acquire this trait from following “brilliant sayings” of your nitzri?
dweller Said:
ca plus change…. so many pages but the same basic points still remain; in spite of all the red herrings, tangents and distractions posted as obfuscation of the simple issues:
bernard ross Said:
dweller Said:
and yet the christians have mixed paganism into their narrative , e.g. 25th december, Oestre, gods mating women, etc etc etc
dweller, as I thought you did not receive a Jewish education. Each and every statement you make, or seek to answer a question, offers more and more proof to this fact.
The problem is, Talmud is not for you.
But you need to understand that Talmud is Torah, and when Xtians like yourself were burning it all over Europe, they were burning their own future.
I hope you brought a box of matches.
The last one to leave this ‘chat’, please turn out the light.
🙂
@ yamit82:
Obviously YOU can’t tell the difference.
I know plenty of pagans.
I know plenty of Christians.
The difference is clear, substantive, consistent, and meaningful.
And you took that to be literal, eh, you who like to insist that the Eden narrative is strictly symbolic? ROFLMAO.
Not a lie. Some would be translated. You’ve already noticed that Matthew tells of many souls that were returned to their bodies after his return from Sheol. Given that event, the proposition that some would still be around at the time of his return seems a lot less far-fetched.
Unlike yourself, I ‘worship’ NO putz, living or dead.
@ mrg3105:
MANY questions have passed between us over the past few days, more of mine remain unanswered than yours.
1. You have yet to identify which of your questions you allude to, and I honestly don’t know which it is. (Do you not have blockquoting capability? — or not know how to do it? It’s easily explained if you’d care for an assist, and it will greatly help you make precise reference to specific remarks.)
2. There can be several possible reasons — above & beyond the respondent’s not knowing the ‘prescribed’ answer (irrelevance, for one) — for leaving a question un-answered.
More importantly, though:
If you want my cooperation in the continued pursuit of this exchange, you’re going to have to back off this ‘how-much-do-YOU-know’ game. It may sit well with kids, but big boys grow weary of it very quickly. As a courtesy, I indulged it a couple of times — most recently, your question of what I understand prophecy to consist of — but don’t expect me to just let you do this w/ me to steer the conversation that way. If that is your expectation, you will be disappointed. Just alerting you up-front.
@ honeybee, are you comparing yourself to Moshe Rabbeinu?!
Its true though, women do not stand equal with men…but on the women’s gallery 🙂
@ dweller, I asked the question and you are not going to get an answer from me first. 🙂
Clearly you don’t know the Jewish answer, so we’ll just derive your Jewishness from that 🙂
There is no better testimony than one delivered from your own mouth 🙂
@ mrg3105:
It preceded Xty, and nobody’s ‘immune’ to it, even self-styled “Torah Jews.”
Lots of people like to think they do. But when they tell you, it becomes promptly clear that they are merely revealing to you the structure of their own ego; not something reflecting a truly qualitative difference between themselves & the animals.
You think you know what a child knows?
Most adults don’t; they’ve forgotten what a child knows, usually by the age of 20, so anxious are they to remove themselves from the anguish of childhood.
The truth is that we are never NOT naked before him at any moment in time, or after time.
Not only is every act on display for Him, but also every motive — and admixture of motives — for each act.
When Natan came to visit him, and ended his remarks with the words, “YOU are the man,” David was naked as a jaybird.
The proof of this is that he instantly tore his tunic; he didn’t hem & haw, and gradually come ’round, etc. He was cut to the quick, and made no attempt at gathering defenses; he knew he was out of line — way out of line; thoroughly out-of-line, and that there could be no excuse of any kind, EVER, for what he had done. His soul was bare; naked.
Had he not been willing to be naked in that moment, to see himself as God saw him, then he would not have been the man earlier characterized by Shmuel as “a man after God’s own heart.”
@ bernard ross:
That was no whine — just a sober observation; you do pay your debts. No hanky needed.
And just as well — since any hanky coming from you is likely to be already soaked in your own. . . . sticky bodily fluids. (Know what I mean?)
@ yamit82:
Your desperation — in re me — is downright palpable.
I don’t lie to my family or my friends.
There are no secrets between them & me.
We all share ideas with each other.
They are occasionally perplexed — but never upset — by what I say or write.
They are not kept in the dark about me and always look forward to hearing what I have to say.
It’s a long family & community tradition.
But then, then I was raised by, and among, real Jews
— not a gaggle of emotionally crippled, sicko, wannabe yids.
dweller Said:
Would you like a hanky to wipe your whiny tears away? 😛 😛 😛
@ dove:
Actually neither remark is even remotely true, and you know it.
But now you’ve paid your dues, and he owes you.
And, oh, I see that I spoke too soon. Sure enough, he paid you back right away.
BS for BS.
@ bernard ross:
“Many” posters? — so, math wasn’t your strong subject? (Were there any strong subjects for you?) The only posters who have accused me of ‘twisting & distorting’ anything were those who — like yourself — are THEMSELVES accustomed to doing masterworks of twisting & distorting (especially lifting little snippets of my remarks out of context, in order to pull off a smear job)
— but who’re then upset when caught in the act, especially when the context is restored and they wind up looking like shit warmed over.
Fortunately, though, there AREN’T ‘many’ of those. Your saying so is just your wishful thinking that it were so.
I have no secrets. And those who know me know that for a fact.
I’ve never lied about you:
— you’re a slime-bucket.
and this from the one who never lies
he had omitted to tell them what he had disclosed to us about what what he believes and to whom he believes in. Omission of such details would be in effect a lie!!!!! Making him out to be a Liar!!!! And their opinions a gross misrepresentation based on his lies!!!!!
and this from the one who never lies