Chit Chat

By Ted Belman

From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.

Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.

Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.

The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.

Everyone will be happier.

April 16, 2020 | 8,437 Comments »

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50 Comments / 8437 Comments

  1. Hi, Sebastien. You said,

    @Michael Are you fluent in Hebrew?

    I’ve studied Vietnamese, German, Hebrew, Latin, Spanish, French and Russian, and was once fluent in Vietnamese and conversant in German. All this was years ago; but of course, I’ve forgotten much of my vocabulary. I also picked up a little Dutch, in studying genealogy.

    In the shorter version, I’m only technically “fluent” in English, which I struggle to keep abreast of. I’m surrounded by peolple who are fluent to varying degrees in Mandarin, Cantonese, Teochew and Japanese, which I can’t understand at all; and I require an interpreter to understand Scottish, Strine, Black and Indian English, and most people under 30.

    I once had a rabbi, who said his children could recite the daily parashot from memory, but had no idea what they were saying.

    Are we engaging in some sort of contest here? I’m not really interested in these games.

  3. @Reader Thank you. In going back to your original comment to copy allthis to my notepad, I see you included that information, as well,but I didn’t take it in, or connect it, somehow.

  5. @Michael Thank you though, while I did have to google, “Osint meaning ,” after reading Peloni’s comment, I don’t recall asking on Israpundit. As it happens, I used to follow Bongino’s podcasts and was bombarded with daily emails with links to his show. I liked him, but after a certain point, I didn’t find it that informative.

  6. @Reader Thank you. I ordered the book for $2.50, $6.98 after tax and delivery charge. Do you think the $75 audio cassette is necessary?

  7. @Reader If you google: yohay sponder instagram self-awareness, it’s the first one that comes up. I just assumed it was also on Youtube. For me, it popped up on Facebook as an instagram clip. It didn’t prompt me to create or sign into an account.
    The default is silent. You have to touch the little bell on the bottom right to get sound. Has Duolingo joke at the end. though it’s mainly about the wars. Very short. Has big close-captioning but his delivery in English is a big part of the humor..

    Yohay Sponder “Self-Awareness”

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGc0bVyI6DR/

  8. @Michael S. @Edgar G.

    In Judaism you are not supposed to read the original (Hebrew) text and make any kinds of conclusions off the top of your head.

    There are 13 rules of interpretation:

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=13+rules+of+torah+interpretation

    If some people choose to interpret what is written in their own way, it is their choice but it has nothing to do with the Orthodox decision making, interpretation, or stuff like that.

    This doesn’t mean that there are no debates, discussions, etc. on different issues in the Talmud.

    @Edgar – I am not implying that you are not familiar with it, on the contrary, I suspect that you may know way more about it than I do.

  9. Edgar, your statement

    It also in MY opinion solves the unsolvable issue of a critical part of the Exodus which no rational person could swallow.

    reveals your typical arrogance which, as a pardon to you, is shared by intellectual snobs worldwide.

    There is nothing in the text of Torah (onor objective reality), which would require not believing that 600,000 men, plus women and children, were miraculously provided for in the wilderness. Your continually resorting to esoteric interpretations (to which you and you alone have been initiated) for the simple text of the most widely read book of civilization, is your great downfall. How can anyone assign any weight to what you say?

  12. SEB-

    Here is an example of READER”s 3 letter root and etc.

    It also in MY opinion solves the unsolvable issue of a critical part of the Exodus which no rational person could swallow.

    “ALUF (alef ,lamed pe) means an army general, but also
    “Head of a family”…….ELEF means ….”thousand”..

    I think a misreading solves the impossible fact of 600,000 men, PLUS women, children etc prowling around Sinai for 40 years. Dying out gradually, and I’d think, by natural means multiplying perhaps by another 20%.

    Also the report of Joshua’s spies that the Canaanites were very strong and too numerous to be conquered.

    Also the Torah text that “I chose you being the smallest people”…

    So most likely the text could read “600 heads of families” or about 4-6,000 people in all.

    Recall that many Israelites stayed in Egypt, and those who left could have been a minority.

    Jist a reasoned opinion.

  14. @Sebastien Zorn

    Hebrew written without vowels is NOT the same as (for example) English written without vowels.

    Hebrew is based on roots and patterns where a (usually) 3-consonant root can form different but always related words depending on the pattern the vowel pattern (and some suffixes or prefixes) consonants happen to be in at the time.

    This is why the vowels were (and still are in many cases) ignored but eventually they had to be added.

    Also, every Diaspora Jewish language (like Yiddish, for example, and there were many of them) was written in Hebrew alphabet but in those cases vowels had to be added because other types of languages would be undecipherable without vowels.

    Hebrew letters used to be pictures (some of the Egyptian hieroglyphs were used), then the Hebrew letters changed their shapes significantly.

    If the English alphabet originated from pictures, we might be drawing an apple for letter A, a bee for B, a cat for C, a door for D, etc.

    Here is the book you may find helpful because it is bilingual and it shows pronunciation – it has Hebrew sentences in Hebrew letters on the right side of the page, the same sentences written in Hebrew with English letters on the left side, and an English translation of each word or sentence:

    Mastering Hebrew: Hear It, Speak It, Read It, Write It Paperback – January 1, 1988 by Joseph A. Reif (Author) ON AMAZON

    This is the same thing ONLINE to download for FREE plus it has all the audio on the page (website from which you will download the text):

    https://www.livelingua.com/course/fsi/Hebrew_-_Basic_Course

    Yes, many people find it boring but one can’t have everything especially FREE OF CHARGE.

  15. @Edgar, Reader Israeli standup comic has a minute and a half bit called, self-awareness, which popped up, if you google it, which has Duolingo joke.

  16. SEB-

    Sorry no intention of denigrating your intelligence. I felt you knew but i noted it to complete the topic.

    I have no problem reading unspaced English. The words leap out at you

    Came across astonishing info recently. There are over 45.000 different Christian sects around the globe………… The pope must be sitting on a hot griddle all the time.

  18. @Edgar I got that. You don’t have to tell me that. It just adds a layer of difficulty comparable to having to read sentences in English without spaces.

  19. SEB-

    Although you feel that way, the letters are still grouped into words.
    They were most often strung together in ancient inscriptions where space was lacking like The Moabite Stone .

  20. SEB-

    Although you feel that way, the letters are still grouped into words.
    They were most often strung together in ancient inscriptions where space was lacking like The Moabite Stone

  21. @Edgar

    Are the words strung together deliberately for emphasis….?

    Yes. That’s what omitting vowels feels like.

  22. SEB-

    Have you misspoken?? Are the words strung together deliberately for emphasis….? Repeating LETTERS without vowels is just repeating letters, recognising which letters they are. Like at the beginning.

    Is this supposed to mean something to me that I was not aware of??

  25. @dreuveni
    If you would like, you can repost your comment under the correct article and I will delete it from the comments under Block’s and my essay on Israeli administrative detention.

  26. President Donald J. Trump has announced his nomination of Dan Bongino, former special agent for the U.S. Secret Service and conservative political commentator, as Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

    OSINTdefender

  27. @Edgar Let me rephrase:

    @EdgarYesDuolingohasbeguntestingmetoreadletterswithoutvowelsoccasionally.

    “Look Ma, no hands!” or in this case, no vowels (or in this case, no gears or brakes while riding a bicycle) 😀

  28. Anyone who was not a liberal at 20 years of age had no heart, while anyone who was still a liberal at 40 had no head.”

    Winston S. Churchill

    Actually, I was 40, myself.

    (Actually, it was originally John Adams but he didn’t use 40

    “A Boy of Fifteen Who Is Not a Democrat is Good for Nothing, and He Is No Better Who Is a Democrat at Twenty”)

  30. SEB-

    Well all I can say ,is that you’ve wrung out and hung up to dry all kinds of 40’s that exist. As for the Matthew mention of Jesus and the desert, AND Satan with his demons etc…not to forget his temptation to jump from the highest Temple point……..WELL………..??????

    All religion beginnings have a time of pretend trial…….Isaac and the providential ram… Buddha and his trials……Sikhism and Nanek asking 3 men to lay down their lives to prove their Sikh solidity, and saved because Nanek was only testing their Faith. And many more.
    .

    Re; your learning the Alphabet. (literally Alef Bet=Hebrew) you may be interested to know that Hebrew originally was written without vowels, and in fact even today, Israeli newspapers and writings have NONE.
    On Arut 7 some news items are also offered in small print at bottom L in Hebrew.

    Torah Scrolls are written without vowels or signs called Nikkudim (Nikud)”The came in to existence sometime in the early Middle ages I think, what the Scholars decided to regularize grammar, and system. etc.
    They help those like you who are learning, and most prayer books which have English on the opposite page have these vowels.

    But I have seen chumashim with NO vowels or signs, in fact I have a complete Torah somewhere which is only script.

    Strangely it was given to me by our mext door neighbour Rev Johnson, a Christian Minister and rector of the nearby Church. He used it in his studies.

  32. One more:

    The Temptations of The Buddha and Jesus of Nazareth as Metaphor
    On the night he was enlightened, the Buddha sat under a Bodhi tree and sat in meditation, vowing to stay seated until he reached some understanding about the nature of reality. While he sat in deep meditation entering the four jhana states, he was visited by Mara, a demon celestial king who came to tempt him. Mara brought his three daughters, Greed, Hatred, and Delusion, and dazzled the Buddha with temptations of beauty and pleasure if he would only just give in and take it. I’ve heard it say in some places, The Buddha stated, “I see you, Mara!” And with that Mara retreated. The Buddha had overcome this demon. He was now the enlightened one.

    Similarly 500 years later or so, Jesus of Nazareth spent 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean desert after his baptism and was visited by Satan. Like Mara before the Buddha, Satan attempted to tempt Jesus with three requests, including tempting to make bread out of stones to satisfy his hunger, to jump off a cliff to be caught by the angels, and bow before Satan to have all the kingdoms of the world, which are similar to the Buddha’s temptation by Mara. But Jesus resisted as well and left the desert to begin his ministry.

    The similarities between the two stories are undeniable. Two of the greatest religious figures of our time are visited by demons or devils and are tempted…

    https://buddhistttherapist.medium.com/the-temptations-of-the-buddha-and-jesus-of-nazareth-as-metaphor-4f30f0b78f19

    ·

  33. @Edgar, Tanna

    n many religions, the number 40 is often associated with a period of testing, trial, purification, or transformation, most notably represented in the Bible by the 40 days Jesus spent fasting in the desert, signifying a time of preparation before his ministry; this is also reflected in the Christian practice of Lent, which lasts 40 days.
    Key points about the significance of 40:
    Testing and Preparation: Across different faiths, 40 often represents a significant period of hardship or spiritual development before a new phase begins.
    Judaism: In the Hebrew Bible, the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years.
    Christianity: Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights before starting his public ministry.
    Islam: The Prophet Muhammad is said to have fasted for 40 days before receiving the Quranic revelation.
    Hinduism: Some Hindu practices involve 40-day fasting periods or rituals, like the “Chaturmas” festival.

    Overview
    Learn more
    According to Chabad, the number 40 in Judaism signifies a period of significant transformation, testing, or preparation, often representing a transition from one spiritual state to another, as seen in stories like Moses spending 40 days on Mount Sinai receiving the Torah, or the 40 days of rain during Noah’s flood, symbolizing a renewal or new beginning; essentially, “40” represents a critical juncture in a person’s spiritual journey where a major change occurs.
    Key points about the number 40 in Chabad teachings:
    Transformation and renewal:
    The most prominent theme associated with 40 is the idea of significant change or spiritual renewal, like how the Israelites spent 40 years wandering in the desert before entering the Promised Land.
    Testing and trial:
    The number 40 can also represent a period of testing or trial, as seen in the 40 days of rain during the flood.
    Kabbalistic interpretation:
    In Kabbalah, 40 is sometimes linked to the four directions of the world, with each direction containing the ten Sefirot (divine emanations).
    Significance in life events:
    Many pivotal moments in Jewish history and individuals’ lives are associated with the number 40, highlighting its importance in the spiritual journey.

    rview
    Learn more
    In Buddhism, the number 40 is associated with the Buddha’s 40-day fast in the desert before becoming an apostle.
    Explanation
    The Buddha spent 40 days fasting in the desert before becoming an apostle.
    The number 40 is associated with transformation and new creation.
    In some traditions, a religious ceremony is held 40 days after death to help the deceased’s consciousness leave the physical world.
    Other number symbolism in Buddhism
    The number 108 is considered sacred in Buddhism.
    Other numbers that are considered auspicious in Buddhism include:
    8 (infinity)
    9 (completion)
    3 (harmony)
    7 (spiritual growth)
    1 (new beginnings)
    Number symbolism in other traditions
    In Judaism, the number 40 is associated with transformation and new creation.
    In the Bible, the number 40 is associated with transition, change, and renewal.
    Number 40 Symbolism, 40 Meaning and Numerology
    Dec 19, 1998 — Number of years that no man and no beast would have crossed Egypt, according to an old prophecy. According to the book…

    RidingTheBeast.com
    Forty Something « Ask The Rabbi « – Ohr Somayach
    The Torah prescribes 40 lashes for some serious crimes. In addition, our Sages teach that a fetus takes 40 days from conception to…
    Ohr Somayach
    The significance of the number 40 Judaism – Emuna Builders
    Jun 13, 2021 — The Number 40 in Gematria The number 40, in particular has a truly special meaning and has been extensively used when …

    Emuna Builders
    Show all
    Generative AI is experimental.

    erview
    Learn more
    In “The 40 Days of Mossadegh,” the number 40 signifies the duration of a crucial period in Iranian politics, representing the approximate number of days during which Mohammad Mossadegh, the Iranian Prime Minister at the time, actively resisted a coup d’état attempt against his government, ultimately leading to his overthrow.
    Key points about the “40 days”:
    Symbolic meaning:
    The number 40 often carries symbolic weight in various cultures, sometimes representing a period of trial, transformation, or significant events, potentially drawing a parallel to the intense political struggle Mossadegh faced during this time.
    Historical context:
    The “40 days” refers to the time between the initial coup attempt on August 19, 1953, and Mossadegh’s eventual removal from power on August 19, 1953, although the exact timeline can vary depending on interpretations.

    The Forty Days of Musa Dagh (German: Die vierzig Tage des Musa Dagh) is a 1933 novel by Austrian-Bohemian writer Franz Werfel based on events that took place in 1915, during the second year of World War I and at the beginning of the Armenian genocide.

    The novel focuses on the self-defense by a small community of Armenians living near Musa Dagh, a mountain in Vilayet of Aleppo in the Ottoman Empire—now in Hatay Province, part of southern Turkey, on the Mediterranean coast—as well the events in Constantinople (Istanbul) and provincial capitals, where the Young Turk government orchestrated the deportations, concentration camps and massacres of the empire’s Armenian citizens. This policy, as well as who bore responsibility for it, has been controversial and contested since 1915. Because of this or perhaps in spite of it, the facts and scope of the Armenian Genocide were little known until Werfel’s novel, which entailed voluminous research and is generally accepted as based on historical events.[1]

    The novel was originally published in German in November 1933. I

    Wikipedia

    My comment: Werfel used the number 40 metaphorially, as well. It was actually a different number of days, close but not 40, I am having trouble finding it.

  34. @Reader, Edgar, I just realized that Hangul, the modern Korean alphabet, which I was focusing on learning for a couple of years before this on Duolingo, has something very similar to Hebrew, namely that vowels are never written by themselves but together with a silent placeholder, which in the case of Hebrew is Aleph.

    If the syllable begins with a vowel sound, the consonant O (ng) acts as a silent placeholder. However, when O starts a sentence or is placed after a long pause, it marks a glottal stop.”

    Hangul – Wikipedia

    My comment: Also when written alone as in a vocabulary quiz.

  35. Very interesting. According to Kedar at 58 minutes in, Russia gave Iran S400 anti-aircraft batteries operated by Russians but when the IDF took out Iranian air defences, they didn’t do anything because Russia and Israel have all sorts of agreements behind the scenes not to attack each other, which is also what happened in Syria.

    https://youtu.be/hXhpWTh77xI?feature=shared

  36. @Edgar G. @Tanna

    I apologize for interfering in your discussion but I would like to recommend a book I’ve just read:

    Anthony Gifford The Unspoken Cause of Auschwitz 2023.

    I bumped into it on Amazon and bought it because of the title and because it was recent.

    When it showed up, I thought I’d wasted my money because it is such a tiny paperback but I was pleasantly surprised.

    The author also has a website which might be especially interesting to Tanna:

    https://anthonygifford.ca/the-unspoken-cause-of-auschwitz/

  37. TANNA-

    I’m glad that you’ve had the time to respond, although your post is so long I may necessarily omit or misplace my answers.

    It seems that it is YOUR interpretations as distinct from standard Christian ones.
    The John quote was CERTAINLY meant to be taken literally ,Jesus lauding his pre-eminence, although no proof that anything he actually said exists…except through the imaginations of the anonymous writers.

    The Chabad Messianic group is NOT large and some believe the Rebbe was the Moshiach SPIRITUALLY, others, literally, and still alive. It’s an easy diagnosis that they are mentally deranged.

    All this “hovering over the waters” is far far straying afield. How could it be anything but nonsense…

    By the way, Jews NEVER call Jesus “Yeshua” only Christians do.

    On the contrary it DOES make a HUGE difference whether Jesus was 40, 50 or 150. The Christian liturgical history make him a young man of about 29-33 and innocent but even Gospels show him as a ealot, and violent.

    You slide away dexterously from identifying the Messiah NOW, but before, for you it was Jesus, I mean Yeshua….

    Both Josephus and Christian belief are positive that Jesus was originally a follower of John being much younger and baptized by him and his pet dove. Later when a prisoner in Machaerus in 37CE Joh had no idea who Jesus was, which indicates tat then Jesus was very “small beer”..

    There is nothing to show that they were cousins other than a late, twisted impossible Christian writing. The :kicking in the womb seems to have done all the talking….Hmm…!!

    The number “40” is believed by some modern Historians To have a symbolic meaning as it comes up several times eg. sojourn in Sinai, lengths of rule of some kings, The Flood etc. as just meaning “a long time” and has NOTHING to do with our discussion, I don’t know why you dragged this red herring in.

    ‘The voice crying” It DID mention “Rachel’s Children, but really meant Children of Israel. As for them Not returning, you are wrong.

    Under Era and Nehemiah at least 2 separate groups returned, in sufficient numbers to re-establish and reinforce, (because they arrived years apart) a State, and build the Second Temple.

    All this talk about Amalek is pure sophistry mixed with nonsense, and symbols.

    So WE have to give G-D time, and not rush the poor Deity… Oy Veh??? How far you wander in a void…..

    There were NO Yeshivas then. In Yavne there were the very distant roots.

    Your wriggling about Isaiah is pathetic to laughable. In thoays with no modern scholarship one might attach 2nd and 3rd Isaiahs to the original scroll as they became known, because they “seemed” in the same vein….although even a cursory exam by a layman can see the divisions and that they are on different paths.

    How could you have a 6th cent writer who could imitate a third cent, writer. Pure Tanna-nonsense.

    Anyway you provide SOME humour in twisting, let us say turning my attitude to you around and call ME ‘naive” and lacking “common sense”
    I though you could do better.’

    My whole being is based on common sense and logic, amply proven time after time. As for Ehrman, if you are repelled by him , feel he’s a charlatan and “twisted” why have so many books of his.. You mentioned 5 I think….

    Your very feeble “attack” of the Torah mistakes mean nothing to me. There are errors of prophesy, scribal errors, and the errors of ignorant beliefs. Maybe others. But I am not promoting Torah versus New Testament as you are Doing.

    You are really a New Testament “Yeshua” guy, Strong Christian leanings, which every utterance from you confirms,
    I don’t care, and no need for you to try to hide it. You can’t.

    I hope this is not too long to be posted. Yours seems to be yet it’s here.

  38. Edgar, I’m glad to hear from you even if your post is so convoluted and contradictory that I’m even more puzzled.

    Edgar. John 8: 57 passage. You should not read it so literally. Their whole discussion was that Yeshua was claiming to be older than Abraham. And they said you are not yet 50 years old. And have you seen Abraham? This is evidently Yeshua associating himself with, The spirit of Messiah. That hovered over the waters in Genesis 1:1. That’s who I am. Your Rabbis even teach this. The problem is – does Yeshua’s discussion pertain to himself or the Messiah. Yeshua thought himself. Most other people did not. Even today a large group think the Rebbe who died in the 90’s is messiah and his going to come back. So it really doesn’t matter whether Yeshua died at 33 or 43 or even 53. Numbers are not to be taken in a literal matter of fact way in the bible. And as to who the real Messiah is, I’ll tell you… he will be who he will be! Jews will be happy and so will Christians.

    As far as? John the baptizer and his relationship with Yeshua. I’m personally not 100% on whether Yeshua was the follower of John or John was the follower of Yeshua? Meaning teacher, pupil. Or whether they were just both students of another teacher. And friends and cousins. I would think they were probably yeshiva boys and Yeshua thought a lot of John and his learning and calling. See, I believe the whole premise of your question is wrong.

    In your mind and arguments, It has to be taken literally that Yeshua was crucified around 30 – 33 years old. Otherwise, the whole story falls apart. That’s not true, and you know it’s not true if you look at numbers in the bible. In the Hebrew Bible, 40 doesn’t mean 40 all the time in a literal exact way.

    As far as the text of “a voice crying in the wilderness”, I agree with you. It doesn’t necessarily refer to Yeshua, But to the return of Rachel’s children from Babylon. So. Tell me, why has Rachel’s children not come back from Babylon? Maybe, one could claim that through the work of Yeshua and the N.T. Rachels children have come out of Babylon to some degree. But no, they are not home yet. Just like the JEWS are not home yet. Yea they live in Jerusalem, but they don’t control their land. It’s all a process. Amalek still pulls the strings on the Jews.. YHVH, been trying to get the Jews from Egypt to Jerusalem for over 3000 years. MY God, Edgar give him a chance , he’s working on it. You know how hardheaded and stiff neck you people are.

    If you read the bible on a straight literal level, one has to come to the conclusion everything written in the Bible is a bunch of lies and myths. Because it ain’t happening. God ain’t fulfilled all of his word. The bible been lying to you Jews for thousands of years. It’s all going to come back to Israel. Everything’s going to be peace and hunky Dory. But that’s where you and Erdman don’t understand what you’re reading. You have got to read it on many different levels all at the same time. God is doing what he’s doing regardless if you and Erhmen believe it or not.

    I do not believe every word Literally. I understand there’s allegories, Poetry, hidden meanings. Words that are written one way and said another way, gematria and on and on. Rabbi’s Teach 4 levels of interpretation or understanding . And the way you get to Sod level is through Peshat. See, this is why you need a good Rabbi to teach you.

    You mentioned there were three Isaiahs separated by hundreds of years. Yeah, I know some scholars think this. But it could also be. Isaiah, writing and speaking and then one of his students took over for him writing cause his hand got tired and then later another student did the writing because the second writers hand got tired and so as Isaiah was speaking and these guys are transcribing his words as he spoke and then thousands of years later some scholar comes along and tries to one up his professor and comes up with this theory that the reason the language is a little different in different parts of the book is cause there are 3 Isaiahs and not just one so… therefore it’s all a lie It looks like you have three different Isaiahs doing the writings. And just as if you were to sit and dictate something to me and I was to actually physically write it down. Linguistic scholars would look at the writings thousands of years later and say ohh, there’s two Edgar’s here. But in reality, it would be Edgars words and thoughts. Don’t be so dam naïve Edgar, my goodness man – used your common sense. Yes, I also knew that Erdman used to be evangelical preacher. That don’t mean nothing!!!! Christians would tell you that Erdman backslid, Lost his faith, Fell from God. I don’t care, it don’t matter to me. .

    You hear stories all the time about Christian preachers. Fooling around with the piano players. And you hear stories all the time of rabbis who fooled around with women in their congregations. That’s just the way of the world. But God said don’t do it. See Edgar, you and Erhmen are like the people who look at a Preacher or Rabbi that makes mistakes and then draw the conclusion that see—- religion is a bunch of lies. Wrong conclusion. Edgar! Remember the story about King David, and that Bathsheba women. Well, if God choose David and David did what he did, then that means its all a lie because if God can’t pick any better man than that it must mean there is no God who knows everything. See the faulting reasoning you and Mr. B have fallen into. You take a little bit of truth and a lot of none facts and throw in a little bit of historical tid bits and when your done, you have lead silly women away into captivity.

    Since you want to talk about contradictions in the New Testament. Maybe you want to talk about all the conditions in your Hebrew bible? There are so many books that’s been written that talk about all the contradictions in the Old Testament. These have been written by scholars, therefore they must be true.

  39. Edgar, I’m glad to hear from you even if your post is so convoluted and contradictory that I’m even more puzzled.

    Edgar. John 8: 57 passage. You should not read it so literally. Their whole discussion was that Yeshua was claiming to be older than Abraham. And they said you are not yet 50 years old. And have you seen Abraham? This is evidently Yeshua associating himself with, The spirit of Messiah. That hovered over the waters in Genesis 1:1. That’s who I am. Your Rabbis even teach this. The problem is – does Yeshua’s discussion pertain to himself or the Messiah. Yeshua thought himself. Most other people did not. Even today a large group of Jews think the Rebbe who died in the 90’s is messiah and his going to come back. So it really doesn’t matter whether Yeshua died at 33 or 43 or even 53. Numbers are not to be taken in a literal matter of fact way in the bible. And as to how the real Messiah is, I tell you… he will be who he will be! Jews will be happy and so will Christians.

    As far as? John the baptizer and his relationship with Yeshua. I’m personally not 100% on whether Yeshua was the follower of John or John was the follower of Yeshua? Meaning teacher, pupil. Or whether they were just both students of another teacher. And friends and cousins. I would think they were probably yeshiva boys and Yeshua thought a lot of John and his learning and calling. See, I believe the whole premise of your question is wrong.

    In your mind and arguments, It has to be taken literally that Yeshua was crucified around 30 – 33 years old. Otherwise, the whole story falls apart. That’s not true, and you know it’s not true if you look at numbers in the bible. In the Hebrew Bible, 40 doesn’t mean 40 all the time in a literal exact way. As far as the text of “a voice crying in the wilderness”, I agree with you. It doesn’t necessarily refer to Yeshua, But to the return of Rachel’s children from Babylon. So. Tell me, why has Rachel’s children not come back from Babylon? Maybe, one could claim that through the work of Yeshua and the N.T. Rachels children have come out of Babylon to some degree. But no, they are not home yet. Just like the JEWS are not home yet. Yea they live in Jerusalem, but they don’t control their land. It’s all a process. Amalek still pulls the strings on the Jews.. YHVH, been trying to get the Jews from Egypt to Jerusalem for over 3000 years. MY God, Edgar give him a chance , he’s working on it. You know how hardheaded and stiff neck you people are.

    If you read the bible on a straight literal level, one has to come to the conclusion everything written in the Bible is a bunch of lies and myths. Because it ain’t happening. God ain’t fulfilled all of his word. The bible been lying to you Jews for thousands of years. It’s all going to come back to Israel. Everything’s going to be peace and hunky Dory. But that’s where you and Erdman don’t understand what you’re reading. You have got to read it on many different levels all at the same time. God is doing what he’s doing regardless, if you and Erhmen believe it or not.

    I do not believe every word Literally. I understand there’s allegories, Poetry, hidden meanings. Words that are written one way and said another way, gematria and on and on. Rabbi’s Teach 4 levels of interpretation or understanding . And the way you get to Sod level is through Peshat. See, this is why you need a good Rabbi to teach you.

    You mentioned there were three Isaiahs separated by hundreds of years. Yeah, I know some scholars think this. But it could also be. Isaiah, writing and speaking and then one of his students took over for him writing cause his hand got tired and then later another student did the writing because the second writers hand got tired and so as Isaiah was speaking and these guys are transcribing his words as he spoke and then thousands of years later some scholar comes along and tries to one up his professor and comes up with this theory that the reason the language is a little different in different parts of the book is cause there are 3 Isaiahs and not just one so… therefore it’s all a lie. It looks like you have three different Isaiahs doing the writing. And just as if you were to sit and dictate something to me and I was to actually physically write it down. Linguistic scholars would look at the writings thousands of years later and say ohh, there’s two Edgar’s here. Don’t be so dam naïve Edgar, my goodness man – used your common sense.

    Yes, I also knew that Erdman used to be evangelical preacher. That don’t mean nothing!!!! Christians would tell you that Erdman backslid, Lost his faith, Fell from God. I don’t care, it don’t matter to me. .
    You hear stories all the time about Christian preachers. Fooling around with the piano players. And you hear stories all the time of rabbis who fooled around with women in their congregations. That’s just the way of the world. But God said don’t do it. See Edgar, you and Erhmen are like the people who look at a Preacher or Rabbi that makes mistakes and then draw the conclusion that see—- religion is a bunch of lies. Wrong conclusion. Edgar! Remember the story about King David, and that Bathsheba women. Well, if God choose David and David did what he did, then that means its all a lie because if God can’t pick any better than that it must mean there is no God who knows everything. See the faulting reasoning you and Mr. B have fallen into. You take a little bit of truth and a lot of none facts and throw in a little bit of historical tid bits and when your done, you have lead silly women away into captivity. Since you want to talk about contradictions in the New Testament. Maybe you want to talk about all the conditions in your Hebrew bible? There’s so many books that’s been written that talk about all the contradictions in the Old Testament. These have been written by scholars, therefore it must be true.

  42. READER-

    She cut cardboard pieces each about 4 inches square, and wrote the alphabet letter on each one with a thick black marker pen.

    She lined them up about 5 at a time on a low ledge, then pronounced each letter until the child could repeat it properly. To them it was a game. She kept adding several letters as the children progressed, It never took more than, sometimes 2-3 days but often even overnight for each added group.
    Each child would repeat all the displayed letters from the first to the last as they progressed.

    Then their memories were tested by removing all the letters and propping up random mixed groups. I was delighted. I think the letters are still around somewhere.

    It took about weeks before they were putting together 2-3 letter words and at 2 years were reading and understanding books with 2-3-4 letter words w/ illustrations.

    I myself was already reading newspaper headlines slowly by 2 1/2 years, according to my beloved 9 years older sister.. We never found out how I did it, A mystery.

    So maybe my kids inherited a sort of “reading” gene??

    ******I used to talk to each baby in the womb. They obviously heard as they rrsponded by kicking.*******

  43. SEB-

    I’ve no idea who gave the thumb down, but to counter I gave a well deserved thumbs up. I’d have given 2 but it wouldn’t take.

    Likely some one emerged from the crypt………. and went back again.

    You have gone into the issue deeply .

    Your large highlight below supports my contention that the Mashiach (as a conquering leader) concept was very late in our history, and long after the last king.

    I did not read anything about it, just my own strong feelings, which I’ve expressed on this site many times.

    but it’s gratifying to be supported by “brainiacs”……..

    As it goes now, i don’t see any refutation by our professional Christians,

    No reams of dry bones and apocalyptic nonsense, and haven’t for a long time. The bones must long ages ago have been ground up for fertiliser.

    They must be back on their meds.

    1

  44. Beyond Borders’: The story of a fighting Jew – interview
    By RANA SALMAN, ESZTER KORANYI FEBRUARY 17, 2025 02:12

    Rudi Haymann’s book Beyond Borders takes readers through his escape from Nazi Germany to when he learns to be a kibbutz pioneer in Palestine, then his missions as a soldier in the Jewish Brigade of the British Army, and finally as he navigates life after World War II.
    “I wrote this book not appealing to a public – I wrote this book for my grandchildren,” Haymann said. “I wanted them to know what sort of grandfather they had – his historical background, his psychological or human background, and the challenges he had to face, and give them an idea that I hope that they never will have to face as many challenges as I did.”

    Available for free as ebook in Kindle Unlimited as well as ebook purchase soft and hard cover from Amazon and various other sellers

    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-841804

  45. Edgar What do you think? I see someone gave that a thumbs down without explanation. Was that you? I still have only read bits and pieces of the Tanakh along with the 5 books in their entirety so I would still have to google many questions.

  46. @Edgar I don’t know but when I googled: When did the Messiach concept first appear in Judaism, I got this and the summaries from various Jewish websites that popped up all said the same thing:

    AI Overview

    According to most scholars, the concept of “Moshiach” (Messiah) in Judaism first emerged during the prophetic period, with interpretations of certain passages in the Hebrew Bible, particularly from the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, being seen as hinting at a future messianic figure; however, the idea is not explicitly stated in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible) and the concept likely developed further during the time of the Second Temple period, particularly following the harsh rule of the Seleucid Empire under Antiochus IV Epiphanes which led to increased messianic expectations as seen in the Book of Daniel.
    Key points to remember:
    No explicit mention in Torah:
    While the word “mashiach” (anointed one) appears in the Torah, it refers to priests and not a messianic figure in the way later understood.
    Prophetic interpretations:
    Later Jewish interpretations of prophetic texts are considered to be the foundation of the messianic concept.
    Historical context:
    The period of the Second Temple, especially the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucids, is often seen as a key time for the development of messianic expectations.

    But I see Isaiah 6 begins: “In the year that King Uzziah died, I beheld my lord seated on a high and lofty throne…”

    So if it begins at the time of Isaiah, I googled: Were there kings after King Uzziah and got:

    “AI Overview

    Yes, after King Uzziah, his son Jotham became king in Judah according to the Bible, specifically in 2 Chronicles 26:21 where it states that “Uzziah rested with his fathers, and Jotham his son became king in his place.”.
    Key points about the succession:
    Next in line: Jotham was Uzziah’s son and therefore the rightful heir to the throne.
    Biblical reference: This information can be found in the Book of 2 Chronicles, chapter 26. “

    2
    1

  47. @Edgar G.

    My wife, a kindergarten teacher devised this method to teach our 4 children to read.

    Could you explain what that system was?

  48. @Sebastien Zorn

    But to write letters, wouldn’t I need to know them first?

    Of course.

    This is why when (possibly) doing what I suggest, you keep by your side a printed page with the Hebrew alphabet with its corresponding sounds written in Latin alphabet.

    This page you keep consulting while doing your “writing English words backwards (right to left) using Hebrew letters” exercise.

    Once you write a word this way, you can write the appropriate sound underneath each Hebrew letter to help you memorize it.

    Anyway, everyone has unique ways of learning languages.

    It was easier for me to learn to read and write Hebrew by reading and writing a non-Hebrew language with Hebrew letters first.

    I also like listening to a text being spoken and reading the printed version of the text at the same time as an exercise a few times in a row.

    I knew someone who was convinced (based on experience) that the best way to learn a language was to memorize and playact dialogs (from a textbook such as FSI).

    To each his own!

  49. SEB-

    You seem very taken with this subject, for which I’m glad, as it’s extraordinarily interesting even fascinating. A kind of detective investigation, with positive results….

    Just one thing. I don’t think the Balaam bit can be on par with the rest as he was long before the kings. And many kings or High Priests could have been assumed to be the Moshiach, all having been oil anointed, and some who were great.

    Which leads me to believe that the Moshiach concept was NOT been part of Jewish Biblical History until long after the last king had gone.

    I’ve said as much for many years. It’s just common sense plus logic.

    How is your opinion on the above??

    You may have noticed that the devoted Christian members are totally silent in the face of my challenge…

    Perhaps on their knees in a crypt of their favourite Church….

    I’m not at all surprised.

  50. @ Edgar Serendipitously, still reading Zeitlin, “The rise and fall of the Judean State, volume 3” I just came to this passage on p. 199 in the chapter entitled, “Jabneh, the spiritual aftermath, subheading: The Sages and the Bible, Problems caused by the Septuagint

    “The original Hebrew text of Jacob’s blessing to Judah, translated literally, reads: “the scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to Shiloh, and unto him shall the people gather.” This passage was given various interpretations by the rabbis. The rendering of the Septuagint version, translated literally, is: A rule shall not fail from Judah, nor a leader from his thighs, until there comes the things stored up for him, and he is the expectation of the nations.” [55] Basing themselves on this version, the early Christians interpreted this Biblical passage as referring to Jesus. The original Hebrew text in the oracle of Balaam, translated literally, reads: “There shall step forth a star out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel; and shall smite through the corners [of the head] of Moab and break down all the sons of Seth.” The word “man” does not occur anywhere in the original Hebrew text.

    These, as well as other passages in the Septuagint, which appeared to them to have Messianic implications, were used by the Judaeo-Christians to demonstrate that Moses and the other prophets had foretold the coming of Jesus as the Messiah and that therefore their new faith was the one true religion.

    [55] Genesis 49:10. Interestingly enough, I googled Genesis 49.10 and the New International Version (NIV) version that came up was:

    The scepter will not depart from Judah,
    nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,[a]
    until he to whom it belongs[b] shall come
    and the obedience of the nations shall be his.
    Read full chapter
    Footnotes
    Genesis 49:10 Or from his descendants
    Genesis 49:10 Or to whom tribute belongs; the meaning of the Hebrew for this phrase is uncertain.
    Genesis 49:10 in all English translations”

    So, I guess that one was corrected somewhere along the way.

    Oh, just that one and some others. Not all were corrected.

    https://biblehub.com/genesis/49-10.htm