Chit Chat

By Ted Belman

From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.

Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.

Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.

The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.

Everyone will be happier.

April 16, 2020 | 7,781 Comments »

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50 Comments / 7781 Comments

  1. @Felix In the ’30s, he realized that getting rid of capitalism wouldn’t solve the problem of antisemitism. So, that isn’t really relevant here, is it? And, anyway, Israel was pretty much a socialist country in the beginning, wasn’t it? It worked for a while until it didn’t work anymore and they changed it though they still have kibbutzes and the federations of unions still have a lot of power.

    I’m reminded of the famous quote by Jabotinsky who also died around the same time as Trotsky and never lived to see Israel independence, in a letter to Chaim Weizman, Israel’s first president, who was a socialist, and which perfectly expresses my point of view now, it’s my favorite quote:

    “I can vouch for there being a type of Zionist who doesn’t care what kind of society our “state” will have; I’m that person. If I were to know that the only way to a state was via socialism, or even that this would hasten it by a generation, I’d welcome it. More than that: give me a religiously Orthodox state in which I would be forced to eat gefilte fish all day long (but only if there were no other way) and I’ll take it.”

  2. @Felix

    I can vouch for there being a type of Zionist who doesn’t care what kind of society our “state” will have; I’m that person. If I were to know that the only way to a state was via socialism, or even that this would hasten it by a generation, I’d welcome it. More than that: give me a religiously Orthodox state in which I would be forced to eat gefilte fish all day long (but only if there were no other way) and I’ll take it.

    – Jabotinsky (and me)

  3. No I mean his whole life from an early age he sought the overthrew of the international capitalist order and his girlfriend convinced him. He never abandoned this outlook. Lenin at the end turned against Stalin in 1923. Trotsky carried that fight against stalinism, internationally especially China, Spain and against the Nazis which is where 1933 comes in. This is the critical moment. I read it long ago, sensed the rage and desperation of Trotsky as he still analysed in detail how Hitler was handed power of that powerful German state. That was the moment. And it all came down to leadership. You should respect this man. Millions of Jews seeking and helping us all create a new humanity are going to adopt Trotsky. Am very sure of that. They only need truth to understand .We are all in the Hurracane, the new time of the Liberty for all.

  4. @Felix

    his whole life

    NO, the end of his life when he was just starting to think about it and no longer had any clout, and by which time it was already too late.

  5. The lesson of the Holocaust of the Jews is that it was all decided in 1933 when state power was handed to the Nazis on a plate.

    Only one political leadership got it right in 1933. Leon Trotsky called for united struggle to stop the Nazis.

    The German workers followed

    1. The Stalinist party

    2. The Social Democratic party

    They failed to unite to stop Hitler becoming Chancellor

    At that point it became from then on impossible to resist and stop the Nazis because they had the STATE POWER in their hands

    Do your own research about this…all of Trotsky’s writings are online and mostly free to read

    Investigate the year 1933

    What more can I do?

  6. Sebastien

    The pleasure is all mine

    So where are we at? At present Israpundit is in denial of modern science on viruses and climate change.

    At same time questions are being raised which need answers

    You seem close to what Kathleen Hayes writes on key issues.

    But sadly Hayes shows no respect for Trotsky

    So I approached it differently

    Quote

    “Shows me that Zorn has not learned the simplest things about the history of the Holocaust.

    And if Jews in the present day do not understand THAT then there’s little or no hope in the present.”

    I could have been clearer. Excuse is writing on phone. So may appear disjointed.

    Let me explain.

    The essence of the leadership of Trotsky in his whole life is when it comes to talking about the Holocaust it is factual that. THE HOLOCAUST COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

    It really didn’t have to have happened.

    What I mean is that you have lots of knowledge about Jews, yes no doubt about that, but you haven’t grasped that fact I have just put in capitals.

    And to do that you have to respect that man and all Jews today need to also.

    Moreover a lot will.

  7. @Felix Always a pleasure to be insulted by more-Jewish-than-thou goyim. Unable to answer my arguments proving you are wrong about Trotsky, you resort to ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments as usual and now you are going to pretend you are a victim, of course, and whine copiously, just like a Muslim. Behavior beneath contempt. I really should just ignore you.

  8. Sebastien

    I repeat review of Resistance

    I want people to listen to this again.

    Esp the part where woman emphasises how dangerous is this ideology of Antisemitism

    Quote

    Resistance They fought back

    There are some short reviews. I liked this one

    https://youtu.be/ss2sNx0H1j8?si=N-wO2GqxwJNw70gW

    1. Stalin created that vacuum by removing Trotsky in August 1940

    2. Into that vacuum stepped all since…Leon, on to present in Malmö aimed at Pogrom against Jewish singer

    My Viewpoint

    Every bad thing follows from this vacuum of leadership in human society

    If you reject my interpretation come up with an alternative.

  9. Ted thanks for digging out posts

    Sebastien

    I seek to show she blurs the issue

    Leon…forget Zionism, stay there, keep assimilating

    Trotsky…by no means. Jews must asap get out of hell Europe and get to Palestine . Live.

    A very important position.

    Doesn’t Hayes play down Trotsky?

  10. The past week, Russia has undergone MASSIVE power shifts.

    https://youtu.be/FOZOAxHcV20

    A year ago, the most important movers were Putin, Prigozhin, Shoigu, Surovikin, Kadyrov and Gerasymov, and Nikolai Patrushev headed the National Security Council.

    Now Prigozhin and all his close associates “fell from the sky” in full view of waiting cameras, Kadyrov has taken ill, Surovikin, who has been credited with building the strong defensive network that stopped the Ukrainian offensive, has been put out of action, Shoigu’s #2 has been deposed and carted off to a gulag, and now Shoigu himself has been put out of power in a “lateral promotion” in which he is replacing Patrushev.

    Only Gerasymov remains intact… and of course, Putin.

  11. @Felix He changed his position in the ’30s and she quotes from this article to which she embedded a link..

    “‘During my youth,’ he wrote in 1937, ‘I rather leaned toward the prognosis that the Jews of different countries would be assimilated and that the Jewish question would thus disappear, as it were, automatically. The historical development of the last quarter of a century has not confirmed this view’.[21] ”

    “[21] Trotsky, ‘Interview with Jewish Correspondents in Mexico’, 1937.”

    Leon Trotsky’s Long War Against Antisemitism
    by Alan Johnson

    https://fathomjournal.org/the-fathom-long-read-leon-trotskys-long-war-against-antisemitism/

  12. To editors…to replace previous attempts which did not go through

    The Peculiar Afterlife of Abram Leon by Kathleen Hayes (Sept. 2023)

    I wouldn’t say the debate is raging over Abram Leon, that’s the problem – there is no debate

    And sadly his in a certain sense Antisemitism has been imbibed by the modern “left”

    Also as well as the fact of Leon the writing of Kathleen Hayes is adding to the problem

    I repeat this involves all recent street Antisemitism even those Pogrom actions by Antisemites around Eurovision in Malmö

    The experience of Malmö Eurovision was really the experience of a Jew in a Pogrom

    The young Jewish singer was taken to the venue in a police armoured convoy and if the attackers had succeeded they would have torn her limb from limb

    All effected, even determined, by unresolved questions concerning the problem ideas of Leon.

    I will now briefly place as quotation a paragraph from Kathleen Hayes. This has been referred to on Israpundit by Sebastien Zorn. She followed this paragraph up with an attack on Marx which I will cover separately.

    Quote

    “But we do have the advantage of hindsight, and according to the standards of our terrible knowledge, Leon’s beliefs and actions deserve harsh criticism. He didn’t only sacrifice his own life, after all: he advocated that European Jewry follow his lead. He urged his fellow Jews to reject the Zionists and the promise of Palestine, and stay in Europe to fight for socialist revolution. History delivered instead Auschwitz. This fact calls into question: everything.”

    But Kathleen Hayes that was the position of the tragic Abram Leon.

    It was most definitely not the position of the great socialist leader Leon Trotsky

    Let’s put it this way

    1. Trotsky urged Jews at all costs to get out of Europe

    2. He urged Jews to create their separate homeland in Palestine

    3. He urged Jews to get to safety there in their own independent land

    (In other words Jews could only be safe with the protection of their own state)

    That latter statement is “the” Trotskyist position in history.

    He stated his position. He did not ever change his mind.

    In creating a Trotskyist Party that’s the position we go back to…to the position of Leon Trotsky

    (I can’t help but notice that this lady Kathleen Hayes does create confusion on this point)

    Trotsky was assassinated in August 1940

    And the building of a Trotskyist Party, proving now as we speak so critical for masses of people, must go back precisely to there.

  13. The Peculiar Afterlife of Abram Leon by Kathleen Hayes (Sept. 2023)

    I submitted a piece to this. Not exhaustive but I made a couple of points. Not appeared.

    I wouldn’t say the debate is raging over Abram Leon, that’s the problem – there is no debate

    And sadly his Antisemitism has been imbibed by the modern “left”

    Also as well as the fact of Leon the writing of Kathleen Hayes is adding to the problem

    Ted need not bother re my lost post. I will rewrite and add to it.

    I repeat this involves all recent street Antisemitism even those Pogrom actions by Antisemites around Eurovision in Malmö

    All effected, even determined, by unresolved questions concerning the problem ideas of Leon.

    I will now briefly place as quotation a paragraph from Kathleen Hayes. She followed up with an attack on Marx which I will cover separately.

    Quote

    “But we do have the advantage of hindsight, and according to the standards of our terrible knowledge, Leon’s beliefs and actions deserve harsh criticism. He didn’t only sacrifice his own life, after all: he advocated that European Jewry follow his lead. He urged his fellow Jews to reject the Zionists and the promise of Palestine, and stay in Europe to fight for socialist revolution. History delivered instead Auschwitz. This fact calls into question: everything.”

    I will later deal with some very strange things about what is contained above.

    It concerns dates and obvious previous separation of Leon from Leon Trotsky.

    This fact doesn’t surprise me at all.

    …Leon Trotsky was saying very different. Hayes should know this but doesn’t really make the key connection.

    To continue…

  14. Trotsky was all about *human initiative*
    Hayes is opposed to the socialist revolution, lies and slanders against the 1917 workers and peasants revolution. That’s why Sebastien Zorn latches on to her essay.

    Hayes refers to a “desultory response to antisemitic roiling such as the Dreyfus affair; a dogmatic insistence on universalism and denial of Jewish particularism”.

    Precisely the opposite of Trotsky

    Then the biggest and stupidest lie of all comes here

    “The smoke of the gas chambers has still not dispersed; in fact, society’s vision is cloudier than ever. Deutscher, Trotsky and Leon believed that freedom for the Jews would come with the inexorable march of progress, only to see the Jews suffer unimaginable horrors as barbarism triumphed instead. ”

    From the time of Karl Marx the idea of “automatic progress” is denied
    That’s why Marx fought to build a leadership party

    Lenin and Trotsky built on exactly that concept of LEADERSHIP PARTY. Precisely because AUTOMATIC PROGRESS is a no no for this outlook.

    The whole of Trotsky is based on that. He proved this (the essence of leadership) in fighting the role played by Stalin. 1918 to 1940. Proving there is only one everlasting principle which is the absolute fundamental role of leadership – implying that nothing is automatic. And Hayes seems to disagree.

    So Trotsky cannot be implicated as Hayes does in such a false concept.

  15. The Peculiar Afterlife of Abram Leon by Kathleen Hayes (Sept. 2023)

    https://fathomjournal.org/the-peculiar-afterlife-of-abram-leon/

    This book by a Jewish Trotskyist who was murdered in Auschwitz had an enormous influence on me and others in my misguided youth. This was the main book that turned me into an anti-Zionist Jew in 1978 or 9 – I was already an Anarchist slowly morphing into a Marxist or about to. Terrific essay. I just stumbled upon it.

  16. The Glass House (Hungarian: Üvegház) was a building used by the Swiss diplomat Carl Lutz to help Jews in Budapest during the Holocaust.

    During the Holocaust
    At one time, about 3,000 Jews found refuge at the Glass House and in a neighboring building from large numbers of Hungarian fascist, antisemitic murderers and the German Nazis.[1] The Glass House also had a broader impact because it was used as a headquarters by the Jewish youth underground* which saved many lives.

    *which included my father who escaped from a Jewish forced labor camp and infiltrated the Arrow Cross, saving many Jewish families, before he was caught and escaped again – after being tortured without breaking – and his first cousin-in-law who worked for Wallenberg out of the Swedish embassy also rescuing Jews and fellow resistance members.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_House_(Budapest)

  17. “Resistance: They Fought Back” (2024) tells the largely unknown and incredibly courageous story of Jewish resistance during the Holocaust.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18239234/

    “Defiance” is a 2008 American war film directed by Edward Zwick, and starring Daniel Craig as Tuvia Bielski, Liev Schreiber as Zus Bielski, Jamie Bell as Asael Bielski, and George MacKay as Aron Bielski. Set during the occupation of Belarus by Nazi Germany, the film’s screenplay by Clayton Frohman and Zwick was based on Nechama Tec’s 1993 book Defiance: The Bielski Partisans, an account of the eponymous group led by Polish [Actually Lithuanian] Jewish brothers who saved and recruited Jews in Belarus [which had been part of Lithuainia a few year before ] during World War II.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(2008_film)

    Kushner’s grandmother was a Bielsky Brigade partisan. They rescued more Jews than Schindler and formed a Jewish army in the forest.

  18. The Forty Days of Musa Dagh is a 1933 novel by the Austrian-Jewish author Franz Werfel. Based on the events at Musa Dagh in 1915 during the Armenian genocide in the Ottoman Empire, the book played a role in organizing the Jewish resistance under Nazi rule. It was passed from hand to hand in Jewish ghettos in Nazi-occupied Europe, and it became an example and a symbol for the Jewish underground throughout Europe.[1] The Holocaust scholars Samuel Totten, Paul Bartrop and Steven L. Jacobs underline the importance of the book for many of the ghettos’ Jews: “The book was read by many Jews during World War II and was viewed as an allegory of their own situation in the Nazi-established ghettos, and what they might do about it.”[2]

    The book was also read by many young Jews in Eretz Yisrael, and they discussed it while preparing to defend Haifa against a possible Nazi invasion. Prof. Peter Medding of Hebrew University of Jerusalem writes: “Between the wars, Franz Werfel’s popular novel, The Forty Days of Musa Dagh, had a profound effect on young Jews in Palestine and in the European ghettos”[3] Yair Auron, an Israeli historian, says that “Werfel’s book shocked millions throughout the world and influenced many young people who grew up in Eretz Yisrael in the 1930s. For many Jewish youth in Europe, “Musa Dagh” became a symbol, a model, and an example, especially during the dark days of the Second World War.”[1] Jews who read the book believed that the novel, though speaking about the Armenians, contained many allusions to Judaism and Israel in relation to Werfel’s own beliefs, and it had a profound impact upon many of them.

    “Jewish response to The Forty Days of Musa Dagh” – Wikipedia

    It was the most popular book in the Warsaw Ghetto prior to the uprising.

    – “From Musa Dagh to Masada
    How Franz Werfel’s novel about the Armenian Genocide inspired the Warsaw Ghetto fighters and the Zionist resistance
    BY
    STEFAN IHRIG
    APRIL 18, 2016”
    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/from-musa-dagh-to-masada

  19. Comment by Sebastien Zorn a little ago

    …It was one year after the 1935 Nuremberg racial laws were enacted in Germany that Szyk, in ?ód?, Poland, painted Trumpeldor’s Defense of Tel Hai. This illumination encouraged Jews in 1936 Palestine to defend themselves against Arab marauders in the same spirit and with the same courage and heroism as did the Jews of the Galilean Tel Hai settlement in 1920, led by the legendary Captain Joseph Trumpeldor. The timing of this painting was simultaneously directed toward the Jews of Germany and Poland, calling upon them to respond heroically toward the antisemitic mobs and chants in their respective countries. The artwork was to be renamed The Modern Maccabees a few years later…

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/12/arthur-szyk-and-the-modern-maccabees/

    Shows me that Zorn has not learned the simplest things about the history of the Holocaust.

    And if Jews in the present day do not understand THAT then there’s little or no hope in the present.

  20. @Ted: Thanks for the info. I’m glad you survived these attacks and that you’re back online. Please, keep up the good work.

  21. Many thanks to all of you for your messages of sympathy and support for my struggle to survive my various illnesses. God bless you all. My deepest sympathy for my fellow sufferer Sebastien, and my prayers and hopes for your revoery from all of your illnesses. God bless you.

  22. Tanna, I’ve thoroughly searched my ancestry: ALL of my ancestors have died! I think it’s in my DNA. The odds are stacked against me, nearly 100%, no matter what I eat! This is distressing. I need a snack…

  23. Our server shut us down because we were under attack. It was niot a random attack but specifically attacked us.

    The problem has now been solved and hopefully will not return.

  24. For now, I’m still in good health. I’m going to remember, you guys’ n my prayers call your names before our father. We all know how one day we can seem fine, and the next day be flat on our backs. A family member is dealing with this now and waiting for pathology reports to come back, praying for the best.

    During our time at the height of covid in one of the large University research hospitals in the US, our son’s blood sugar was over 450 and his diet was controlled by the Dr’s and he was given all the things(foods) that drive blood sugar up. When his mother pointed it out, The hospital and Dr’s response was, that’s why we give him the shots daily to bring it down. Even after a conversation with hospital dietician, she admitted we were correct, but the administration set policy and there was nothing she could do, The Dr’s placed him on the diabetic diet. However, if we ordered each of his meals ahead of time,(daily x 3) we could order what we wanted. Otherwise, the hospital recommended diet was our choice and it worked to drive his numbers up.
    So, my advice, cut out ALL sugars and as many carbs as possibles. Any, we’ll pray!

  25. SEBASTIEN_

    All levity aside, this is a serious matter. You are far too young to have such brutal ailments and I am truly sorry. Yet you have a good genetic background from your late mother.

    And much if not all can be controlled with meds, diet and careful exercise. I myself do a few minutes daily on a treadmill, ////even at my age. I should do much more but don’t due to laziness.

    I hope that you are as assiduous in seeking and getting proper Medical help as you are in finding Israel oriented links.

    From now on sniping at one another is OUT, at least on my part.

  26. …It was one year after the 1935 Nuremberg racial laws were enacted in Germany that Szyk, in ?ód?, Poland, painted Trumpeldor’s Defense of Tel Hai. This illumination encouraged Jews in 1936 Palestine to defend themselves against Arab marauders in the same spirit and with the same courage and heroism as did the Jews of the Galilean Tel Hai settlement in 1920, led by the legendary Captain Joseph Trumpeldor. The timing of this painting was simultaneously directed toward the Jews of Germany and Poland, calling upon them to respond heroically toward the antisemitic mobs and chants in their respective countries. The artwork was to be renamed The Modern Maccabees a few years later…

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/12/arthur-szyk-and-the-modern-maccabees/

  27. Sebastien,

    I think I just come here, because you folks make me feel so young 🙂

    Wife and I managed to get to the coast last weekend — whales, eagles, pelicans, a stellars sea lion, gorgeous Oregon weather (aka rain), and some seafood I won’t mention here because it’s not kosher. I was hobbly and wobbly, but I did it! Praise God!

    I want to get some strength back, so I can help out a blind friend, and another one confined to a rest home — and of course, help out Mrs. S. Life is good. The lady was bringing things in from the car, and three deer approached her and watched her. We’re entertainment for them. I also hear birds chirping all the time; but I think most of it is just tinnitis.

    We didn’t regret missing the news at all, while we were gone. There’s plenty to pray for: family, friends (near and far), neighbors, our country and leaders, and Israel — especially the Bibas family.

  28. @Edgar I do have a lot of illnesses including diabetes, hypertension, obesity, coronary artery disease, trachial stenosis, arthritis, osteopenia, sleep apnea, atrial fabrillation, gastro-intestinal reflux disease, ulcers of the duodenum and esophagus, mixed lipodemia/cholesterolemia, psoriasis, and among others and more popping up all the time, not that it’s any of your business, but I don’t burden others with my problems, and I can’t help it if I have a lot to say. It’s annoying that you and others aren’t more prolific, frankly.

  29. Of 50 posts below, 29 are from Sebastien Zorn, including 18 in succession

    This poster is extraordinarily prolific…………….

    Perhaps he has time to spare due to another rotator cuff injury.
    If so, I wish him a speedy recovery.
    If not then he’s just another “eager beaver” looking for plaudits……Sad.

    2
    1
  30. @Adam

    I am really sorry to hear that you are ill and I wish you a full and speedy recovery.

    I apologize for probably unwanted advice but my approach to problems is to find a book on whatever problem I need to take care of.

    Several years ago I found a great book on how to control blood sugar with diet (I don’t have diabetes, I hope (yet, but anything can happen with age)) – high blood sugar is the major/main? cause of diabetes complications (the idea that one can eat anything as long as s/he takes medication is incorrect, (however, it doesn’t mean that just because you now eat properly you can stop taking insulin, for example, or stop carrying something sweet with you in case your blood sugar dips too low), the diet helps the blood sugar level stay more or less even – in the proper interval).

    The author is 89 years old and he has had type 1 diabetes since the age of 12 (way before they had blood glucose monitors), he became a doctor at about 50, and his story is amazing (the books are listed there):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein

    Here is his website:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuJ11OJynsvHMsN48LG18Ag

    Also, these days checking your blood sugar is, apparently, much easier with a continuous glucose monitor (I have never seen one, just read about them), so you don’t have to keep poking your fingers with a needle.

  31. TED_

    I’ve just written another post to ADAM which has not been printed,,.I bet this one will be. I KNEW it.

    WHAT’S GOING ON…..????

    O.K. ADAM and TED I just found it, it is at the end of the previous 50 posts
    Mystery solved.

    Add;.. And I just found the first missing one in the previous 50.
    I don’t know how I manage this. Perhaps I should buy a Lottery Ticket……???

  32. Adam-

    Obviously TED hasn’t found my post so I’ll try again. It won’t be the same but similar.

    We have Nurse Practitioners here too but with the cursed Socialised medicine here it could take months to get an appt and maybe a year for specialist. It’s a shambles.

    I’m seriously glad that you got a second opinion and now you’re getting the treatment that you need. Thank G-D .

    I’ve looked it up on several sites and I find the GLUMETZA is regarded as a very efficient Med with few if any side effects. It aids diabetes and cirrhosis.

    Also several antibiotic meds are helpful

    I truly feel deeply about your situation and that you are alone with your thoughts. But you are very brave and pragmatic which is all to the good.

    May you survive and improve, and know many more years of active life and Israpundit postings.

    All our members are surely with you in your fight as I certainly am……!!!

  33. @Adam
    Thank you for including us in your confidence. Speaking for myself, I wanted to thank you for the update on your health and to wish you a full and speedy recovery. The Gram positive infections, such as Strep, are difficult to detect, so it is good that they caught it. The blood sugar is all that the bacteria consume, which is why it plays havoc in destabilizing the diabetes. There are also many other consequences of such infections, so I am glad that you sought out the specialist you chose. I have noted many times that medicine is so much more of an art than a science, even as it is an art based in part on scientific evidence. In any event, it is good to hear of such important findings, and I look forward to hearing of you report your marked improvement over time. Be well my friend.

  34. HI, Adam

    It’s good to hear your update. Life is wonderful — much better than the alternative.

  35. TED
    My response to Adam has vanished, I’m sure you’ll come across it and post it. I mention it because it may be an internal flaw which you can get fixed.

    I find it odd that posts to members can vanish yet a post addressed to you , always finds you. You have a pet computerised system that loves you alone, and only tolerates us, I think.