By Ted Belman
From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.
Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.
Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.
The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.
Everyone will be happier.
@FelixQuigley
I guess so.
When someone accuses people of ad hominem attacks in a post which is almost 100% ad hominem attacks at the accused, there is really no other choice especially if the higher authority here allows it.
@Honeybee Not beating a dead horse. Top story in today’s Jewish Press.
@Honeybee &Co. Got that?
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/jewish-news/antisemitism-news/armenian-terrorists-set-synagogue-on-fire-in-yerevan/2023/11/16/
“The group Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) has claimed responsibility for an attack on a Jewish community center in the capital Yerevan, AzerNews reported on Thursday.
The Mordechai Navi Synagogue at 23 Nar-Dos Street in Yerevan is the only Jewish place of worship in Armenia, headed by the Chief Rabbi of Armenia Gershon Burstein. It was established in June 2011, with financial assistance from Armenian businessman and renowned photographer David Galstyan.
‘It is estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Jews live in Armenia today, all of them in Yerevan. Most Armenian Jews today are Ashkenazi, with some from around the Caucasian mountains.
In its statement following the attack, ASALA claimed that its “youth wing” had set the synagogue on fire, adding that they are not going to stop and that the next attack on the Jewish community would be carried out outside Armenia.
The nearest country to Armenia with a thriving Jewish community is Azerbaijan, which shares a border and a long history of violence and war with Armenia.
The ASALA was active in the 1970s through the 1990s, and its stated goal was “to compel the Turkish Government to acknowledge publicly its responsibility for the Armenian genocide in 1915, pay reparations, and cede territory for an Armenian homeland.” It was allied for a while with the PLO. At some point, its leaders were taken out by what appeared to be Turkish government secret agents. ASALA’s founder Hagop Hagopian was assassinated on a sidewalk in an affluent neighborhood in Athens, Greece on April 28, 1988. Assassinations of former members of ASALA continued into the late 1990s.
The Bulgarian newspaper Sofia Globe reported that a Molotov cocktail was thrown On October 3 at the Mordechai Navi Synagogue and that the ASALA-Youth group was responsible. The group declared that the attack was meant to “take revenge on Israel and world Jewry for supporting Azerbaijan.”
The group promised to take revenge on Jews, including in European countries: “If Jewish rabbis in the USA and Europe continue to support the Aliyev regime, we will continue to burn their synagogues in other countries. Every rabbi will be under our guns… We will start a war against Israeli Jews in Europe, America, Canada, and Georgia.”
And that was the week before October 7, 2023.” embedded video.
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/jewish-news/antisemitism-news/armenian-terrorists-set-synagogue-on-fire-in-yerevan/2023/11/16/
@Sebastien
I think that the idea of the UN allowing Israel on the UNSC is an impossible one. The UN was founded by the victors of WWII to hold their dominance over the world in perpetuity. Adding Israel to their number would be both counter to this influence of the Big five as well as unpopular with the adamently antisemitic nature of the UNGA.
Beyond the opposition to the interests of both the Big five and the UNGA of having Israel placed on the UNSC, we have to look at the guiding principles upon which the UN was founded. It was an institution born from the lie that nationalism was the source of WWII. Consequently, its preferred antidote to this ‘problem’ is to break down nationalities and thereby increase the power and influence of the UN in place of the relative nationals sovereignties of the member states. This International Liberal Order directly contrasts with the strong national identity of a state which prides itself as being THE Jewish state. Despite the best efforts of the UN to the contrary over the years, the Israeli people have come to be more, not less, adamant with regards to their national identity.
Hence the strong national identity of Israel in combination with national interests of both the Big Five and the UNGA members would preclude any attempt of pushing forward any affirmative action which would name Israel to the UNSC, even if the UNSC had any interest in supporting the interests of minority states, which it does not. It would be far more likely that the Arabs would gain such a position than Israel. Just my own opinion of course.
@Felix and Reader You are rude and confused. We will leave it at that. You and Honeybee deserved the tongue lashing you got. Edgar got a shot in, as well, though I didn’t bother to reply. Your constant ad hominem attacks disqualify you from any consideration, whatsoever. You all deserve to have your feelings hurt so stop your incessant whining and take your medicine like men instead of mimophants. 😀
An article on jihadwatch supporting other rubbish politics by Elder of Zion website is absolutely disastrous for Israel and places Jews in NEW danger. I put to Spencer this comment
“A really bad idea in every single respect. Israel has to arrange for all Arabs to leave and frankly they have to make their own way out. This area is part of Israel and only Jews can live there otherwise they cannot be safe FROM THE SCOURGE of Antisemitism. Does Spencer stand over this abomination of an article?”
Reader I suppose we have to put up with this character who a few days ago was attacking us even poor honeybee as being disloyal.
He is crazily mixed up by his time in Stalinism with some Buddhism along the way
You actually have understood his weakness perfectly
@Sebastien Zorn
I don’t understand what you are talking about and what all of this has to do with Trotsky.
His ideas about transitional demands were directed precisely at wresting power from the capitalists and giving to workers, however, these ideas were not the kind of idiotic tricks that Cloward and Piven came up with to make the life of the poor better.
Just because you call something a transitional demand doesn’t mean that it gives that something some kind of a magic power, or that your idea of a transitional demand is the same as everybody else’s.
Trotsky explained that his transitional demands are a bridge between the minimal demands of the Social Democrats that were too weak and their maximal demands that they placed too far into the unknown future.
They were actual steps, not some magic tricks designed to fool and overwhelm some government.
However, he vastly overestimated the abilities and the intelligence of the workers and their leadership to implement these steps, and the history already moved forward and the time wasn’t right for his ideas, plus he lost most if not all of his followers.
Just to say the key issue of state power. Ask what did the leadership of this theory carry out. They did seize by armed force the old state power away from Kerensky. How… understand this…there was a deep revolution in place. The workers had taken to the streets in a general strike spontaneously. That happened also in Dublin in the Dockers Strike of 1912 under Connolly and Jim Larkin. But in Dublin no revolutionary party existed. This WAS the key ingredient. And that WAS the enormous development that the Russian folk had made. They had achieved the “brain” of the Revolution, that which shook the world capitalist system to its very foundations. And that “brain” was also the physical party.
You have got to the very kernel can I say, that which Allende could not, to give just one example of innumerable in history.
Eretz Nehederet satire of BBC interview with Yahya Sinwar
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-773279
@Peloni What do you think?
@Reader You are missing the point, entirely. Forget the particular issues. As Alinsky put it, “the issue isn’t the issue, power is the issue.”
What they advocate is transitional demands as opposed to minimal or maximal. They are demands that sound reformist but that can’t actually be achieved without overhauling the system and which arouse fighting consciousness in the masses.
In the same spirit, we should, not the state of Israel, but supporters around the world, be demanding that Israel be a permanent member of the security council.
All of these human rights laws that were ostensibly put in place so that what the Nazis did to the Jews would never be done again are being disregarded or distorted to persecute the Jewish state and the Jewish people.
Israel needs to be free of the sword of Damocles continually held over her held of sanctions as Russia, China, Europe and the U.S. always are. And Israel needs to be free of having to kowtow to the U.S., the EU, the UN or anybody else.
It’s a transitional demand. And we should demand it!
@Sebastien Zorn
This is the way YOU interpret the text.
Whatever he proposes has nothing to do with Cloward-Piven strategy, he wasn’t an idiot who wanted to rig the current system by playing some tricks with it in order to give the poor a guaranteed income.
He wanted to replace the system with a fairer one (he stated that the free market had disappeared and was replaced by monopolistic capitalism) run by the working people and he suggested the measures that he thought would revive the working class and its leadership and make them work toward that goal.
He refused to admit or to believe that the battle he and the Old Guard fought was lost and he overestimated the abilities and the intelligence of the masses.
At that time everyone gave up on the revolution except for him, the people who pretended to be on his side told him things he wanted to hear but they were in reality planning his demise.
@ Reader It does but my response was instantly deleted twice.
@Reader Yes it the Fourth International advances a system of transitional demands, the essence of which is contained in the fact that ever more openly and decisively they will be directed against the very bases of the bourgeois regime. ”
And earlier:
“Classical Social Democracy, functioning in an epoch of progressive capitalism, divided its program into two parts independent of each other: the minimum program which limited itself to reforms within the framework of bourgeois society, and the maximum program which promised substitution of socialism for capitalism in the indefinite future. Between the minimum and the maximum program no bridge existed. And indeed Social Democracy has no need of such a bridge, since the word socialism is used only for holiday speechifying. The Comintern has set out to follow the path of Social Democracy in an epoch of decaying capitalism: when, in general, there can be no discussion of systematic social reforms and the raising of he masses’ living standards; when every serious demand of the proletariat and even every serious demand of the petty bourgeoisie inevitably reaches beyond the limits of capitalist property relations and of the bourgeois state.”
@Reader Yes it does.
and earlier: “Classical Social Democracy, functioning in an epoch of progressive capitalism, divided its program into two parts independent of each other: the minimum program which limited itself to reforms within the framework of bourgeois society, and the maximum program which promised substitution of socialism for capitalism in the indefinite future. Between the minimum and the maximum program no bridge existed. And indeed Social Democracy has no need of such a bridge, since the word socialism is used only for holiday speechifying. The Comintern has set out to follow the path of Social Democracy in an epoch of decaying capitalism: when, in general, there can be no discussion of systematic social reforms and the raising of he masses’ living standards; when every serious demand of the proletariat and even every serious demand of the petty bourgeoisie inevitably reaches beyond the limits of capitalist property relations and of the bourgeois state.”
ibid
@Sebastien Zorn
It is not Felix, it is I
It doesn’t say anywhere in the article that these demands are unrealizable, it is your own addition, to make the passage fit your thesis.
Trotsky’s program had nothing to do with overwhelming the government bureaucracy or the welfare system, or the guaranteed annual income.
Francis Fox Piven
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individuals/frances-fox-piven/
@Felix “Michael Reisch and Janice Andrews wrote that Cloward and Piven “proposed to create a crisis in the current welfare system – by exploiting the gap between welfare law and practice – that would ultimately bring about its collapse and replace it with a system of guaranteed annual income. They hoped to accomplish this end by informing the poor of their rights to welfare assistance, encouraging them to apply for benefits and, in effect, overloading an already overburdened bureaucracy.”[3]”
“Cloward-Piven Strategy” – Wikipedia
@Felix Good. You found it. Here the relevant passage which advocates making unrealizable demands under the present system to undermine the present system and awaken consciousness rather than allow minimal concessions to keep the masses asleep. Up to now, defenders of Israel have been on the defensive. This is only thing in this piece that is substantively different from the things Lenin and Stalin among otgee Marxist
theorists advocated, and even Marx, himself.
“The Fourth International does not discard the program of the old “minimal” demands to the degree to which these have preserved at least part of their vital forcefulness. Indefatigably, it defends the democratic rights and social conquests of the workers. But it carries on this day-to-day work within the framework of the correct actual, that is, revolutionary perspective. Insofar as the old, partial, “minimal” demands of the masses clash with the destructive and degrading tendencies of decadent capitalism – and this occurs at each step – the Fourth International advances a system of transitional demands, the essence of which is contained in the fact that ever more openly and decisively they will be directed against the very bases of the bourgeois regime. The old “minimal program” is superseded by the transitional program, the task of which lies in systematic mobilization of the masses for the proletarian revolution”
ibid
https://youtu.be/rDYFroPMEqg?si=lQBFn4ZIkgEifZc8
@Sebastien Zorn
Here is Trotsky’s Transitional Program, I doubt that you’ve ever seen it, much less read it (it had nothing to do with overloading the welfare system or establishing a guaranteed annual income):
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/tp-text.htm#iw
The man was an idealistic revolutionary, the last one of the Old Guard to be killed by Stalin.
In Trotsky’s day, the workers still had some leverage because they were the main participants in the economy, now they don’t have this leverage because of the automation and robotization and the freedom that the large corporations enjoy of moving their businesses and factories around the globe in search of the cheapest labor and the largest profits.
Cloward and Piven strategy (to overwhelm the welfare system):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy
If you find anything in Trotsky’s Transitional Program about guaranteed annual income or about overwhelming the welfare system, please, quote the relevant passage(s).
Ted
This is the Antisemitism of the march exposed by Piers as never before
Publish it and let Jews understand your enemy
https://youtu.be/5EKGI-XW5hs?si=Qoc6c49TXNrLIYaF
Terrific interview with Colonel Kemp
https://youtu.be/Gp6B9a2m8zE?si=J3NEPJD9ZXc7cJcl
I see this name pop up, now and then:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/11/14/lloudoun-county-voters-fire-soros-prosecutor-buta-biberaj-elect-republican-bob-anderson/
This is a very positive turn of events.
@Reader What is Trotsky’s Transitional Program? You accused me of being uninformed about Trotsky and his writings. What is Trotsky’s Transitional Program in a nutshell? How is it Transitional? Felix couldn’t answer. Can you, Professor?
Ketzel2
But since we are creatures possessing large brains we have interests in our past and also spirit of survival which can be subdued but not easily eliminated. The history of Trotsky is also how he fought Stalin and Hitler. For example the name Sylvia Ageloff a Jewish New York family heavily implicated in Trotsky’s murder in Mexico 1940, because Stalinism is an ideology and some Jews became die hard Stalinists. As evidence has emerged it looks as Sylvia as GPU agent was the key figure controlling Ramon Mercader, rather than the love torn victim of the assassin.
But of course Jews today fight for survival once again. It may SEEM separate from them. But on the other hand Jews ARE fighting fascist forces again. Again seems a dominant theme in our time. How can we end this horror machine and try for a new future.
@Sebastien Zorn
Are you trying to say that these people wanted the American proletariat to make a revolution in the US with the “expropriation of the expropriators” and Bill Clinton valued them so much that he invited them to his inauguration, and it is because of these two “we are on the edge if the cliff”?
I am speechless.
https://www.jns.org/at-290000-strong-march-for-israel-in-dc-is-largest-pro-israel-gathering-in-history/
@Felix Focus, please. What is Trotsky’s transitional program?
@Felix, Jews have no memory of Trotsky unless they’re old commies. I’m sure he was a great guy, but for most living people, there is no pro or anti Trotsky, it’s like arguing about whether to use the harpsichord or piano in 18th century opera, i.e. a niche interest of great importance to very few people.
Sebastien
I want nothing to do with Clinton and his cruel wife (we came, we saw, he died) or any people they associated with.
I made a very simple point…the murder of Trotsky August 20 1940 and widespread murders of innumerable cadres wiped out the real left. Not just that physical thing theory also. Also Jews I feel maintenance of a subconscious feeling for Trotsky. Just that no more. Just a feeling I have because I think Jews are a great people.
I feel you are setting a trap. This is a Jewish site. Many are not ready for this so I touch on it lightly. People.can take it further if they FEEL it themselves.
Many things are a question of feeling.
@Reader
I made reference to Trotsky’s transitional program in a constructive, practical
sense – something Felix never does – and Felix failed to answer. Does he know what it was? Do you? What is it? What did I mean? (Hint: Cloward and Piven, whom Bill Clinton invited to his Presidential inauguration, advocated a variation of it, in its original destructive form, which the left adopted and which is a big part of how we got where we are on the edge if the cliff.)
The Transitional Program is Trotsky’s main theoretical contribution to Marxist theory.
@Michael We knew that. You’re beating a dead horse, Michael. Why do you hate Russia so much? I told you not to go there and you as much as called me a wuss.
Like a little kid’s mishap with a stove extrapolated onto other things.
Michael, Russia, China. Hot. Hot. 😀
@Sebastien Zorn
This is simply not true, and please, try to restrain your emotions.
@Michael S.
This is what the Microsoft chief said:
@Felix Now, that’s what I call Magical nonsense. 😀
@Reader You and Felix need to stop insulting everyone else first, you idiot.
@Sebastien Zorn
Quit insulting Felix, especially considering that you are completely ignorant of who Trotsky was or of his writings.
Microsoft chief says Russia is spreading Middle East disinformation
Paris (AFP) – Russia has been spreading “disinformation” about the situation in the Middle East, the president of Microsoft said Saturday, as tensions soar in the region due to the Israel-Hamas war.
Issued on: 11/11/2023 – 10:23Modified: 11/11/2023 – 10:21
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231111-microsoft-chief-says-russia-is-spreading-middle-east-disinformation
Russia against Israel??? How can this be!! 😮
Sebastien
I try to draw out the extreme crisis if I can use the term, Zionism, is in but indeed all of human society.
We saw in these marches what is vaguely called the left.and also bourgeois leadership in Europe, Australia and America who have enabled entry to Islamic thugs on a large scale.
But the alliance of the left with Muslims on the marches is not predicated on Leon Trotsky but on the murder of Trotsky by Stalin.
And so we proceed but every event has an effect and every effect has repercussions in this law governed universe.
We do not proceed blindly but by means of science.
In this matrix of innumerable events preceding us I have little doubt that the murder of Trotsky by Stalin had the most serious effects of all.
I do notice that Jews do not ever dismiss Trotsky while they fear and detest Stalin even though these ideas are not sharply defined.
As we move along much will be clearer
@Felix Good answer to Ritter except for the usual boilerplate “Go Team Trotsky” nonsense at the end.
@Felix 😀 You are the very last person who should be be lecturing anyone on “magical nonsense” you loon.
We should make the demand, in any case. Surely you of all people should understand “transitional” demands you uninformed Trot groupie.
In any case, who knows. According to Loft, Ben Gurion got the majority of nations in the U.N., including the Soviet Union and the Latin Ametican countries to suddenly do an about face and back partition, and got arms from Czechoslavakia by revealing or threatening to reveal damning information.
Maybe some kind of intellligence blackmail could work again?
Part answer to Scott Ritter who continually attacks Israel on his Twitter
Ritter
“Every Brooklyn-born advocate of Eretz Israel who participated in the robbery, brutalization, and murder of Palestinians while stealing their homes and lands should have their American passports revoked and have warrants issued for their arrest under American jurisdiction. Otherwise, the rule of law is meaningless.”
I answered Ritter on his twitter the following
“On the march in London a young Jewish woman took such cursing verbal abuse that she broke down crying
The Muslim mob without pause struck up the chant CRY BITCH CRY
Nice people these”
I further say that the present attacks on Israel by Antisemites is a continuation right back through the Holocaust to the Pogromists of earlier decades, even centuries, many of which happened in Ukraine.
There is a direct link between Stepan Bandera and Zelensky because Zelensky even though he is nominally Jewish leads the Bandera forces of today.
Ritter and indeed Russia does not recognise this point I make
So many Jews are confused by this but they do not approach it with the insight of Trotskyism
In the Gorbachev era Trotsky remained a hated figure by all branches of Stalinism.
But Trotsky in the 1930s demanded and asserted Jews had to have a national home in Israel to be.
In essence this all means there is a major crisis today in Israeli leadership. The old forms of leadership are proving inadequate
Sebastien please stop living in the land of nonsense
“Israel should be a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. That would be genuine Affirmative Action against the legacy of antisemitism.”
That is a perfect example of what I call “magical thinking ”
The League of Nations was a trap for Jews and the United Nations even more so.
Libs of TicToc
Israel should be a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. That would be genuine Affirmative Action against the legacy of antisemitism.
Thank you, Ted. The post (a response to Tanna) has come up.