See also: Line between Jew and gentile no longer as clear
Israel’s Law of Return allows people with Jewish ancestry to receive Israeli citizenship, but strident religious rules exclude many from the faith itself – some nine million people.
[..] According to the study by Prof. Sergio DellaPergola from the Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University, as of the beginning of 2014, the number of Jews (people born to Jewish mothers) stands at 14,212,800 (a 0.66 percent increase in comparison to 2013). If you take into account those born to Jewish fathers, but non-Jewish mothers, the number rises to 17,236,850.
The number jumps to 22,921,500 when you take into account people who can trace Jewish ancestry three generations back – the maximum allowed by the Law of Return. The definition is similar to the one laid out by the Nazi’s Nuremberg Laws, and is thus understood to be Israel’s response to the threat posed to Jews by anti-Semitism based on racial – as opposed to religious – criteria.
The data will be presented in a conference in Jerusalem’s prestigious Van Leer Institute on Monday as part of an event called Converts, Returnees, and Adherents: New Ways of Joining the Jewish People.
Conversion bill
The government passed on Sunday a highly controversial bill overhauling the way conversions to Judaism are handled in Israel, despite objections from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
The legislation aims to expand Orthodox conversions in Israel, permitting municipal rabbis to oversee the process which until today was held by a few select facilities, causing massive red tape and what many describe as an exhausting process which prevented many from completing their conversion. The bill passed almost unanimously.
The bill’s sponsor, MK Elazar Stern, from the centrists Hatnua party and himself a religious Jew, made it his mission since entering the Knesset to lead a reform in conversions, and even vowed to quit the coalition should the bill fall. According to him, the current process alienates scores of Israelis from Judaism.
However, to secure the bill’s passage, compromises were made to its content: For example, in the bill passed Sunday, Israel’s Chief Rabbi is put in charge of finalizing all conversion certificates, while the initial bill failed to address the issue.
Regarding the issue of reform conversions, a contentious issue in Jewish politics, the initial law gave it some standing, along with conservative (or masorti) conversion, while the new version makes no mention of either. The new version also reintroduced religious oversight into the process, while the initial bill attempted to make it a purely administrative process undertaken in accordance with religious edicts.
@ yamit82:
Kindling a fire was not forbidden for its own sake. It was forbidden because at the time it took work to do it — a fact much overlooked today.
Try kindling a fire sometime: without the assistance of matches, batteries, or electrical outlets. . . .
Work is still forbidden on shabbat, but kindling a fire no longer constitutes ‘work’ when all it takes is the flipping of a switch.
As former slaves & the children of slaves — bound to backbreaking labor from dawn till dusk, and later — the people to whom the command prohibiting work on shabbat were well accustomed to work, and they KNEW what “work” consisted of.
The former slaves who stood at Sinai — and who’d heard the command and who had responded, “We will do all that the Lord has commanded” — would have read the above [blockquoted] words of what is considered by orthodox rabbis to be the same as kindling a fire” — and laughed in their face.
Scripture says not a word of that in this regard. That is merely an interpretation based strictly on an interpolation.
yamit82 Said:
Who wants a horse any body can ride. Computer acting up, I wish computers were as simple as men.>>>
@ honeybee:
I refreshed my memory and discovered
Yes a long time. Thanks for refreshing my fading memory.
honeybee Said:
Yes of course!! I did try your recipe and it was quite good. Different but good.
Disculpas mi amor Didn’t realize you have been here that long. How TIME fly’s!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙁
If I remember I was not in Israel then I was in Arizona doing what I most enjoy…fashioning swastikas out of refried beans.
It is the creative outlet that gives my life meaning.
honeybee Said:
Thanks I’ll do a search >>>>>>
Took me a long time to compose.
yamit82 Said:
Nope ! Laka recipe Nov/Dec 2012
keelie Said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR3nL-MGLS8
honeybee Said:
You gona be there?
yamit82 Said:
Quihi, Texas Gun and Saddle Club , every other Sat night.
Bear Klein Said:
” It ain’t personal, its business” ” The Godfather I”
@ honeybee:
Don’t know I need to see it and do it to find out any ideas?
@ <
@
yamit82 Said:
What about slow dancing or belly rubbin as it is called in Texas? That creates sparks too.
@ Bear Klein:
Tolerance in Judaism?? Judaism is a most intolerant religion. Take the Holiday of Chanukah: What happened in that era more than 2000 years ago? What led a handful of Jews to rise up in violence against the enemy? And precisely who was the enemy? What were they fighting for and who were they fighting against? For years the people of Judea had been the vassals of Greece. True independence as a state had been unknown for all those decades and, yet the Jews did not rise in revolt. It was only when the Greek policy shifted from mere political control to one that attempted to suppress the Jewish religion that the revolt erupted in all its bloodiness. It was not mere liberty that led to the Maccabean uprising that we so passionately applaud. What we are really cheering is a brave group of Jews who fought and plunged Judea into a bloodbath for the right to observe the Sabbath, to follow the laws of kashrut, to obey the laws of the Torah. In a word everything about Chanukah that we commemorate and teach our children to commemorate are things we consider to be outmoded, medieval, and childish
The first act of rebellion, the first enemy who fell at the hands of the brave Jewish heroes whom our delightful children portray so cleverly in their Sunday and religious school pageants, was not a Greek. He was a Jew. When the enemy sent his troops into Modin to set up an idol and demand its worship, it was a Jew who decided to exercise his freedom of pagan worship and who approached the altar to worship Zeus (after all, what business was it of anyone what this fellow worshiped?) And it was this Jew, this apostate, this religious traitor who was struck down by the brave, glorious, courageous, (are these not the words all our Sunday schools use to describe him?) Mattathias, as he shouted: “Whoever is for G-d, follow me!” what kind of Jews were these who reacted to oppression with force?
Moses set the standard when he killed an Egyptian merely for beating a Jew. The Hebrews in the Sinai fought with almost every nation they encountered. A specific commandment requires Jews to exterminate the Canaanites rather than establish peace with them. Jews happily celebrate Purim, the remembrance of wholesale murder and looting of their enemies. Jews as happily celebrate Hanukkah, a victory of Jewish fundamentalists over the reform secular Jews of their day in a bloody civil war lasting some 22 years and because they beat the Jews like you Judaism and Jews exist today.
Judaism extends tolerance only to neighbors, members of the community who share the same basic values. There is no tolerance of enemies; killing enemies is specifically excepted from the prohibition.
Believe what you will but I say you are mistaken.
dweller Said:
Just what I thought ,convert to what.
@ yamit82: Tolerance to allow people to observe as they believe and are comfortable is definitely a wise formula for peaceful and healthy coexistence.
keelie Said:
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD; whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death.
Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.’
And Moses spoke unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying: ‘This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying:
The overwhelming majority of Orthodox halakhic authorities maintain that turning on an incandescent light on Shabbat violates a Biblical prohibition. An incandescent light bulb generates light by causing electrical current to flow through a metal filament. The resistance to current flow generates light and heat.
Light switches tend to give off a small spark as do many electrical appliances and that is considered by orthodox rabbis to be the same as kindling a fire….man is not to enter into any thing the creates something else in the natural realm in deference to G-d’s creation.
Now I know you disagre with Jewish traditions and don’t observe many if any but I do resent your mocking out of ignorance those who do observe and do so in many cases at extreme personal deprivation.
If you don’t agree don’t follow and do; don’t mock either. There are many things to mock I’m sure in your life style as well….
Intentionally creating sparks is prohibited as igniting a fire. Turning on some electrical appliances may generate sparks, the same as kindling fire prohibition.
@ yamit82:
“I really love “lakes” got any good recipes????”
LOL!!! How about Jewish jokes?
@ honeybee:
Such as flipping a light-switch on Shabbat?
@ honeybee:
Why be Jewish?
I was thinking mostly of numbers, but now you come to mention it…
@ honeybee:
Sadist!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Enjoy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Was I sober at the time?????
Did you post under different screen name?
Are you going to make me search and torture me????? 🙂
yamit82 Said:
Oh, I see, to long for you to remember a woman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Darlin
@ honeybee:
yamit82 Said:
It’s a fridge !!!!!!!!!!! Not world peace !!!!!!!!!!! Men !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Who’s Johnny? I meant the beginning of the Universe, and G-D created the Universe out of chaos. We go back to the “Big Bang”.
Limbaugh has spelled it out: “The greater the crisis, the more liberals like it. They can’t implement their unpopular agenda unless there exists chaos.”
Self-interest dictates that the Left embrace villainy.
Expecting liberals to oppose evil is like expecting pimps to oppose prostitution.
honeybee Said:
honeybee Said:
Hmmm it ain’t about poor Johnny is it???
yamit82 Said:
Chaos !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sugar
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Thank you SHmuel, I say if it can’t be said in a paragraph , it shouldn’t be said. My Father had three examples of concise writing The first Chapter of Genesis King James version, The First Chapter of Matthew King James version, and Thucydides.
honeybee Said:
How far back do we go???
yamit82 Said:
I gave it to you two years ago, I should think it was a memory you would never forget.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
My theory of re-conversion through gastromity.
honeybee Said:
. For you are a holy people to the Lord, your God: the Lord your God has chosen you to be His treasured people, out of all the peoples upon the face of the earth.
Not because you are more numerous than any people did the Lord delight in you and choose you, for you are the least of all the peoples.
But because of the Lord’s love for you, and because He keeps the oath He swore to your forefathers, the Lord took you out with a strong hand and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt.
Know, therefore, that the Lord, your God He is God, the faithful God, Who keeps the covenant and loving kindness with those who love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations.
@ honeybee:
HB. Well said. Concise and clear.
And about Jewish foods… good line also. 🙂
@ honeybee:
Good points!!!!
Culinary Judaism works for me. I really love “lakes” got any good recipes????
keelie Said:
I understand Judaism to be a dedication to the ” Almighty” by living ones life in accordance to HIS ordinances.
yamit82 Said:
Bagels & Lox, white fish, Honey cake, falafels, Knishes, Pletzels, Challah, pickled herring, Lakes ?????
@ keelie:
If being a Jew is reduced only to ethics and all or many peoples have exemplary ethics and morals then why be Jewish?
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Our Midian brothers
Proselyte is not much of a Jew
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Both of your answers (I include the one to “Dweller”) are interesting and to the point.
Modern technology has allowed us to peer into the genetic makeup of humans, and from what I have read, there are more than a few Jewish genes running around on earth at this point in time. Perhaps something that could be considered.
My own standpoint – at least to some extent – is that Judaism is a “way of thinking,” one which tends to be focussed on the correct way to live one’s life from a moral standpoint. Flipping a lightswitch on Shabbat is not an immoral act, but beating one’s wife is. There are many people in this world who have the same moral outlook as the Jews, and it’s perhaps worth considering that they are worthy of adoption Judaism from this standpoint, whether this adoption is formal or not.
Of course those who like to be in control of the situation, so to speak, would have no way of measuring just how “Jewish” these self-adopted folks actually are, a fact which would cause them a great deal of consternation. But perhaps – quietly – the offer should be made to such people… I don’t quite know how this would be done.
This would be a start to making Judaism more “inclusive” than “exclusive”. More “universal” perhaps.
This “universal” attitude is prevalent in Hinduism (which for those who burn when they hear this name, is the most intensely monotheistic religion on earth).
“Islam defines the male as the one that irrevocably transfers the religion to sons and daughters.”
Who gives a shit what Islam defines? Islam also defines Judaism and Jews as obsolete. Why even make mention of this malefic and essentially anti-Jewish religion in a discussion about what constitutes the Jewish identity? Sometimes I just don’t get it.
@ dweller:
The Egyptians seem to have had perfect records as to who was a Jew way, way before Sinai. And Tzipora while she performed to the requirements regarding their firstborn, a task usually performed by males on males, was a daughter of another people’s priest.
“If she” was at Sinai’s Matan Torah… The “if” is quite prominent.
I do believe she was a principal lady in our history but the religious angles are over my head.
@ keelie:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
“Convert” to WHAT?
— You could as well ask if anybody of that Sinai generation ‘converted.’
She [Tziporah] had been with Moses since BEFORE Sinai.
It was, in fact, Tziporah specifically who circumcized their first-born, Gershom — and that BEFORE Sinai.
If she was still in the camp when the multitude stood at the foot of the mountain and said, “We will do all that the Lord has commanded,” then she was as much of a ‘convert’ as any of them. . . .
@ keelie:
There are contradictory views on Moses wife’s conversion or not. Since both his sons received tribal denominations it is accepted that they were Jewish. At that time conversion was a personal decision not graded by anyone except the convert him or herself. Of course circumcisions for males was a must.
The Judaic faith bestows on the women the sole right of being the Jew that conveys Jewishness to sons and daughters. That I know of, I do not recall that having been edited ever.
Islam defines the male as the one that irrevocably transfers the religion to sons and daughters.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
I guess it depends on how far back the word “ancestral” applies…
I need an answer. Did Moses’ wife “convert”?
I personally think the law as written and amended is wise. This way Jews and their relatives can live in the Jewish country. Friendly conversion procedures will encourage those who live among the Jews and just like them to convert.
The Law of Return
The Bible clearly determines who is a Jew. Hitler’s by laws do not. People born outside the faith is welcome to convert according to Jewish Law. My best sister in law converted. Determining who is qualified to perform that conversion may or may not be changed, but the structure must be upheld.
It is abominable to change our ancestral standards to fit Hitler’s.