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Menu There is no diplomatic solutionIsrael should declare three nos;
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
@Bear
That is a fair point. Obviously, I do not, which would put me back to my original suggestion, for what it’s worth.
The good bad news is that Biden is doing such a horrible job that a large majority of American Voters are unlikely to support him the future.
Biden has so many problems that the consulate he would like to restart for the Palestinians in Jerusalem is not a high priority item! So Israel by just staying firm on opposing the consulate and not aggressively being confrontational with Biden will possibly see the issue just fizzle away.
@Peloni, do you have inside knowledge of whom Bennett and Lapid meet?
@Bear
that is why you keep beating on this issue and trying to discredit Bennett and Lapid.
This is not fair.
I am not sure of why you are so intent upon belittling my concerns as political banter even if you disagree with them.
My opposition to this coalition has been well noted for fears of what it has brought since before it was formed. Take what value you find in my opposition as I do in your support of this govt, but I have a greater appreciation of your intelect to believe this has just come into view and it is also not responsive to my suggestion. It is your right not to specifically respond, but I would prefer you not paint me as a political hack in doing so.
Furthermore, there is no need for me to discredit Bennet and Lapid. The simple fact they have empowered the local chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood with $10billion in state financing while so closely allying themselves with the Radicals in Washington that they will not meet with any opponent to this ally in the US political structure seems discrediting enough without comment. They are are each alarming topics, historic firsts and have great potentials to harm the state.
The fact that Lapid/Bennett will not meet with any politician who is not allied to this ruling faction does play a rather serious part in this topic of tactics opposing the Radicals’ intent with their consulate. It means that Lapid/Bennett will likely also not reach out to their true ally in the US for support, ie the grass roots movement in the US public, on any topic for it would be too concerning to their ‘ally’ in Washington. This does concern me and I do not understand how it can not concern each of us. Does this not concern you? So Israel is not free to meet with members of the Right and Left on a non-partisan manner. I mentioned it before, but it seems quite relavent: Lapid has harped a false narrative to this effect against Bibi vis a vis Trump.
I think it is important for the govt to succeed in this fight on the consulate. I have now said it twice before and here again that I support them fully to succeed in this matter and it is very important that they do so. There strategy is flawed in my opinion, such as it is, and I have suggested a more aggressive move. Having reflected on the matter, though, I find that given Lapid/Bennett’s unwillingness to upset their US masters by even meeting with opposing polititicians belies the reality that they have no intent of working beyond the reach of their Radical allies, and that concerns me more than anything else. Again, it should concern us all. But feel free to change the subject and not directly respond to my comments, again.
@Peloni, I stand corrected you are opposed to the Israeli government coalition and that is why you keep beating on this issue and trying to discredit Bennett and Lapid.
I accept that as your approach and no further explanations are needed.
USA government may not have given up on the Consulate and the Israeli government needs to stand firm in its opposition to it! They are doing so until now and need to keep it up! That is my position as a person loyal to the state of Israel.
@Bear
I am not trying hard at anything but seem incapable of making my point clear. You have tangled my opposition for this govt as being the basis for my opposition to a strategy that I see as useless against an opponent that recognizes no standards or limits to their power. Your desire to support the actions of this govt may inform your support for their approach, but I see this as a separate issue, and it is not hard for me to recognize the folly in their approach at all, but then I recognize the true nature of the players behind the White House. If the approach Lapid/Bennett have chosen secures Jerusalem and eliminates the possibility of the consulate, that is a victory and I would happily celebrate such a victory as significant as you seem to have done. They have said no. They have noted it quite strongly, even publicly, now. This would mean further discussion on this topic is quite moot and the need to give such a strong declarative opposition at the press conference would have been quite unnecessary. I am not convinced of this at all, but see this press conference as a change in their strategy, which would never be pursued if all that was needed was for them to say no, which they have. Instead, they chose to use this press conference to publicly voice their opposition to the US consulate, more clearly and more definitively than they have to date. Hence, I find this not a point of finality capping a victory, but a change in strategy to further oppose the US, publicly. This was no subtle statement. Even Lapid’s comment was on target with no groveling tone or phrasing, which means it was likely pre-arraranged(a friend told me his part might have been pre-recorded, LOL).
If Bennett/Lapid felt the situation was settled with their statements to the US behind closed doors, they would have been less emphatic in their public statements, recall their policy of the quiet approach, these statements directly breach that policy. In any case, my views are unchanged, and I think this matter is not resolved on the use of the closed door discussion, and I hope they do not preclude themselves of further options, as I have discussed, to advantage their position. This is not a point of politics, even opponents can be seen as wrong without the need of twisting reality, whereas it is sometimes difficult to see the flaws in those we hold in greater standing.
As an aside, I find the report by Caroline that Bennett was forbidden to meet with the Reps during his US visit by demands with the Dems to be very disconcerting and may become very injurious to Israel. Furthermore, this is actually what partisan politics looks like, you know the recurring claim that Lapid never stops making about Bibi. Is a similar arrangement to this the reason that has kept Bennett from interviews with the US press, save the NYT which is an extension of of the White House? Make no mistake, this is a very dangerous concession to have been made to the Dems.
@Peloni this was a broad press conference which was also in Hebrew. It was a summary of where is going, the problems and the objectives for the government. It is hard to get a real appreciation of what goes on in Israel by just depending on English media. Also harder to get a real feel for the leaders of the country by only listening them in English.
A little part written in English about the press confernce but it also a video including the full speeches in Hebrew!https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/1636264695-bennett-with-passage-of-budget-time-to-get-to-work
@Peloni, the Press Conference was a general press conference. Liberman was also there and was open to both Israeli and foreign media.
I sense you are trying hard to discredit the Bennett – Lapid approach. That is your right. They are doing a good job on this in my view. A mass blowup with the USA because of hard nose and digging negative comments directed at Biden or Blinken would not serve Israel.
@Bear
You mistake my meaning when I referenced his indirect approach. Of course, we all know that Bennett has stated his opposition to the consulate to the Americans directly, likely several times. If, as you suppose and the Americans agree and international law requires, it is dependent upon Israel’s consent, the consulate would not be an issue and the repeated concerns of it would be so much wasted breath that it would hardly require a press conference, especially one in English. The problem with what I will state next is the reality that these Radicals in Washington are actually radical, ie it is not a political abuse aimed at them but an accurate description of them as they have no notion that they are actually limited by laws and routine legal norms, nationally or internationally.
Whereas you have no appreciation for the level of skullduggery that they have conducted to have overthrown the Trump presidency and taken hold of the White House thru fraud as you defer to Barr’s statement, I fully am convinced of their use of the use of multiple layers of fraud, resulting in hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes to ignore legal norms. Not meaning to readdress this topic here, but if you and Barr were correct and the evidence we see everywhere were not well based, one might be likely to agree with your view here, and the need for the press conference would not have been needed and there would be no current threat to the accepted sovereignty of the Israeli Capital. I, however, recognize that this is not the true reality and Malley and his crew have no intent of bending their designs to Israel’s consent. It is likely why Bennet held the presser and in English and even Lapid, the American lackey spoke in tone not previously employed in his diminutively weak and patently pathetic comments I referenced from two months ago. These words were not to address their ally, the US govt, but their ally, the US public, as their words were already directly addressed to the US govt, directly as you noted. As I said this was not sufficient enough and was likely a shot across the bow to their American counterparts that they would take it public and hopefully more directly to the US press, as needed to blunt the refusal of the US to drop their demands, otherwise the groveling tone employed by Lapid would not have been so changed, at a minimum. But if the requirement of Israel’s intent were to be the limiting requirement, success would already be in hand and they would likely have been less direct in their response. I hope I am wrong and this is true. But as in all things, we will see how things mature.
@Peloni, you factually err when you say, that Bennett’s approach on the subject has been indirect. He was relating in the Press conference while answering a question what he has already personally and directly told the American Administration that there is NOT room for a Consulate for Palestinians in Jerusalem. He is not being subtle but direct and polite. Being a bull elephant in a china shop on this could potentially have an adverse outcome.
@ Peloni or whomever else. Israel NEEDS to approve the consulate and it has said NO. The USA acknowledges Israel needs to approve the Consulate in Jerusalem.
Kloom is phonetic Hebrew meaning emptiness or nothing.
The objective is to make it clear to the American Regime that Israel is against the consulate and hopefully the subject will fizzle away without a crisis.
Ask yourselves why Israel’s best friend has been trying so hard to push Israel into the sea.
@Ted
@Bear
Whatever tactics might bring this matter to a successful close will be good enough, but therein lies the problem. The use of subtle diplomacy is not the problem, only that it has never had any chance of success with the Radicals in power in Washington.
Also, it has never been my suggestion to be brutish or obnoxious in opposing matters that are important to Israel, such moves would be foolishly motivated and counterproductive to the desired goal.
Yet, there is a way to say no to these Radicals without being rude. The manner in which Bibi literally slobbered over Obama during his campaign to oppose the JPOA would be difficult to be out done, and yet his message was clear and called upon the US public to support his position. So, there is a way to appeal to the American people for their support that does not require casting more shade upon the administration than is needed to achieve the goal of opposing the consulate. Though, I have little hope for this current technique of a press conference, even one in English, to achieve this goal. Perhaps, I am overreaching in my criticism of this current govt, and perhaps this is but the first brush of a future public discussion on this topic to more firmly connect to the American public. I am, however, concerned that this govt’s reluctance to directly engage with the American public, their true ally as I noted, is a serious blunder, and one that they hopefully soon reverse.
I will note that this current statement is a great deal more clearly stated than Lapid’s comments on September 1,
but we are a long way past September 1 and now that the obstacle of the budget is behind us, I suspect things will likely mature more quickly on this topic. If this press conference format is successful to achieve their goals, I will be delighted, whatever brings the matter to a successful close. I just don’t believe it is sufficient to the task.
As I noted
I think this is fairly stated. Hopefully, Bennett, rather than his less useful partner, will quickly move this discussion towards employing the American public, and soon. He needs not be rude, boorish or abusive. He does, however, need help because these radicals, unlike past American administrations and British politicians, have an agenda that is not likely to be swayed by anything the Israeli govt has to say on this matter, IMHO, of course.
PS Bear, you have taught me a new word and I would love to know the meaning of Kloom.
Also, my critique here is not a political reproach of Bennett or even the tool standing next to him. I know you hold him in high standing, whereas I am quite disillusioned with his empowering of anti-Zionists and Brotherhood members in his govt. My words here, however, are quite irrelevant to either of our opinions on that topic, though. This matter needs a solution, and I hope Bennett is up to the task as you are quite certain. If he is to fail to stop this, it will be a devastating blow. I do not doubt his inteligence, but his indirect approach is not enough to advantage his goal, but let’s hope I am wrong, or that he soon changes tactics. Success by any means is success enough, so long as it is successful.
I encourage people to sign the stop the Jerusalem Consulate Petition: Click on the link below to sign it please!
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-jerusalem-consulate?recruiter=1208767242&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&fbclid=IwAR0uQtpugA1kmBqzME6SxtafEm6w6g3zY1zvF1VkgI71oO4Ia-xG0mkFmV4
Israel buys weapons from the USA and gets diplomatic support. Israel and the USA also trade intelligence information. Yes, the USA has its own agenda. Yes all in the USA are not Israel’s friends. Some radicals are even Israel’s enemies.
Being polite is smart! Being insulting gets one NOTHING, NADA, KLOOM!!!
Those who do not know Bennett simply have no clue about him, his beliefs, his capabilities and intelligence. Do under estimate him! Bibi already did this!!
Bennett understands what is important!!
Even before the radicals ascension, and even before Obama, America had its own agenda and constantly pressured Israel.
I see nothing wrong in trying to acheive one’s goals quietly so long as one goes public when necessaary.
When Weizmann engaged the British cabinet on disputes, he too preferred quiet diplomacy whereas Jabotinsky, like Netanyahu after him, favoured public diplomacy.
The alliance between Israel and America has always been at the level of the public. American politicians have always attempted to display a supportive mood, even while they were only vaguely attempting to mask their desire and intent to manipulate Israel for their own agenda.
Bibi saw thru this ruse, as he has always recognized the true reality that the alliance between these two states, these two democracies, lay at the level of the public not the politicians. His ability to so masterfully engage the true allies of the Jewish State resulted in great gains, despite the enormous obstacles of his tenure, not the least of which included the presidency of Obama. Bibi was not afraid or timid about engaging his allies in the US, openly, in the full light of day where realities of the political demands of the US leadership could be exposed to the American public and thereby rendering upon these politicians the thing they dread most – a political cost. His actions in doing so were not partisan, in regards to American partisanship, as he would accept friendship and support from a bipartisan sourcing, but it needed to be an alliance and not overlordship, quite a distinction to the Lapid/Bennett govt having bent the knee in acquiescence to the America-first policy of quiet negotiations with these Radicals.
The US has their own agenda, and these current Radicals in power hold a great debt to crowdsourced-photoshopping and the unwavering support of the ghost voters, and even the dead seem to rise to the occasion to have voted for their un-American agenda. These realities are still with us, unfortunately. Yet, it is also true that these Radicals still have a need of manipulating optics.
So, it was not a small move for Lapid/Bennett to finally break with these standards of silent rebukes of American demands and to formally, cordially and with carefully couched political phrasing expose their disagreement in public. Having done so only at this late hour, they have lost a great opportunity to call on the true source of the US-Israeli alliance. Doing so now, is, of course, encouraging, even as they pursue a timid approach, because it demonstrates that they at least recognize the true reality of the alliance is not with the Radical politicos. It does, however, expose the failure of their policy of quiet negotiations, even as they still seem addicted to limiting their opposition to these Radicals as Jerusalem is currently the focus of this slowly emerging public debate.
The Radicals with which they are so careful are the same villains who have stolen elections, abandoned their own citizens and allies to terrorists while plying these same terrorists with ready cash and elite secret weaponry. They have wrecked the economy, abandoned, supply lines and seized upon public liberties never infringed upon in US history. They have an agenda. They seek nobody’s support and they recognize nobody’s rules of fair play – not within the US borders and certainly not outside of it. So, these silly attempts to not poke the bear belies the reality that the bear is quite untamed by these meek half-measured approaches. Bennett has the skills to have made the case before the American people, even if Lapid only has tactful embraces for like-minded Leftists. This current subtle diplomacy will not gain the embrace of the US grassroots to oppose the moves with this consulate. There are many in the US congress who might be moved to break with these Radicals on the issue of Jerusalem in this election-year atmosphere, but not if these Chamberlain-esce tactics are to be the power-moves of the Lapid-Bennet govt.
Bennett, Lapid in united front: ‘No place for US consulate in Jerusalem’
Lapid says Israel would not oppose a Consulate for the PA in Ramallah.
They make it crystal clear in English.