Peloni: There is no basis in reason or rationale which would support the application of antisemitic laws in the Jewish State, and make no mistake, all that Ben Gvir is advocating is that this antisemitic prohibition specifically for Jews be finally and completely rescinded. The status quo is and has been a policy which demeaned Jews in their own homeland, in their ancient capital, and by their own govt. Such villainy is unseemly as it remains unjust and unjustifiable. End the Status Quo, and allow the Jews to go where they like and pray as they like, and let the Americans pound sand.
by Ronn Torossian | August 14, 2024
Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir visits Al-Aqsa compound also known to Jews as the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City May 21, 2023. Minhelet Har-Habait, Temple Mount Administration/Handout via REUTERS.
Jews can pray where they choose in London, New York, Buenos Aires, or Sydney — but not in Jerusalem. The world is in an uproar after Israel’s National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir visited the Temple Mount to mark the solemn Jewish fast day of Tisha B’Av. Critics say that Ben Gvir disrupted the carefully-crafted status quo in Jerusalem — and even broke with the policy of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Ben Gvir says that he has the authority to assert his own guidelines.
The Temple Mount, which was the site of the first and second temples, should be a place where every Jew is permitted to visit without controversy. It seems that the only reason Jews are not allowed to pray there is the threat of a violent reaction from non-Jews, but how can this be allowed in a Jewish state? Surely some accommodation can be reached if both sides would be open to it. But sadly that’s not the case.
How can we have a Jewish state where Jews cannot visit one of the holiest places in their history because of threats of violence from others? If the answer is that this situation is just temporary, we need to seriously look at if that’s true — and ask how there can be a credible partner for peace when Jews are not allowed to visit this site due to threats of violence.
Jews can pray at Jewish holy sites anywhere in the world — just not in Jerusalem.
Critics took issue with Ben Gvir because they believe his move will disrupt ceasefire negotiations with Hamas.
US State Department Deputy spokesperson Vedant Patel said, “we certainly are paying close attention to actions and activities that we find to be a detraction from Israel’s security, a contributor to greater insecurity and instability in the region, and that would certainly be the actions that we saw today that Mr. Ben-Gvir participated in. Even the prime minister’s office itself made clear that the events of this morning are a deviation from what is Israeli policy and a deviation from the status quo.”
He went on: “any unilateral action like this that jeopardizes such status quo is unacceptable. And not only is it unacceptable, it detracts from what we think is a vital time as we are working to get this ceasefire deal across the finish line. It detracts from what our stated goal is for the region, which is a two-state solution, a Palestinian state and an Israeli state that’s side-by-side, living in — with dignity and harmony.”
If this two-state solution that will see people live “with dignity and harmony” is shaken up by a few Jews praying, then what is the plan for changing that in the future? The reality today is that Jews are only allowed to ascend the Temple Mount during very limited hours, and it is closed to Jews on Shabbat. Yet Arabs can mostly pray freely.
One also wonders why international critics bother so often and so much with the tiny Jewish State, instead of paying attention to crises close to their own homes, such as violent and deadly protests — or actual human rights violations occurring throughout the globe.
In the long term, if Jews wanting to pray peacefully causes an uproar, then we don’t have a true partner for peace. Ben Gvir’s actions may have inflamed the situation — but the larger issue is one that needs to be addressed.
Ronn Torossian is an entrepreneur and philanthropist.
@Bear
Well stated
Jews should be allowed to pray on the Temple Mount if they so desire. Jews must be free to practice their own religion wherever in the Land of Israel they so desire!!
Mikkele-
Electric lights. I should remind you that I led the Vancouver Island Table Tennis Team to the Winter Games for several years around my middle 60s being the Island champ for those years.
I quit when i broke my shoulder.
The Tunnel is about 6-7 ft high so no need to be”spry” I spray you not.
And there was NO Group. I went on Aliya for 14 years and during that time I explored those biblical structures several times.
Also as I’ve recently and repeatedly said, I was right through all the Moslem structures on the Mount and nobody said yea or Nay to me. Everything was quiet and peaceful then. Isreal was IN CHARGE and thr terrorists had not yet been invited to bring their bomb and explosives to Israel by Rabin , Peres and Beilin.
@Edgar
Thank you for reminding us your adventure into the Pool of Siloam. I recall you having shared this a few years previously. Quite a fascinating achievement!
Hi, Edgar
I’m glad you got to crawl through Hezekiah’s tunnel. You must have been quite spry in those days!
Was the tunnel wired for electric lighting then? Or did your group use flashlights?
THE POOL OF SILOAM-
In the mid 1970s I walked right through the whole Tunnel of (I think CHezikiyau) and up the steps …I’ll give you ONE guess.as to where the steps emerged…….!! About 150+ FEET FROM THE ACTUAL Temple itself, and not in the Aksa direction. I also saw the water tanks of the Kings. I leaned over a bit too much and my dear late Uncles present to me of sunglasses must still be there.
It’s described in the Torah, the ancient engineers were miracle men digging from BOTH sides, they met almost exactly; the difference being less than a foot, like an ordinary stair step. There was an inscription on the arch there describing what it was.
Of course as an archeological friend told me , it had been altered and rebuilt a few times since CHekiyahu’s day
There was still water running through it, about a foot deep I’d say.
Mikkele-
I didn’t realise that you were such a wit-whether 1/2 or 1/4 wit I didn’t know until your posts about the location of the Temple under the Aksa.
They show REAL “intelligence one wouldn’t expect from such as you’ve almost daily shown to be, for the past many years.
However, I can afford to be magnanimous. I have a very authoritative book by 3 well known archaeologists whose names I can’t recall from over 50 years ago. They showed scale drawings of all the present Temple Platform
(the same one that’s there today) of the mikvahs, steps to underground areas, underground roads leading right into the Mount under the platform, And many other Temple areas which have been mentioned both in Torah and by Josephus.
Of course you know that the walled old city is not original but from the 15th Cent(I think 15th) although the gates are where they always were.
Even the place where the walls were torn down to permit the German(Prussian??) Emperor to enter whilst riding his horse, is still identifiable.
But that’s neither here nor there.
We can agree to differ, can’t we??? You may have heard of this expression in your vast thesaurus of terms???? Hmm…?.
Edgar, I supplied a very accurate, up-to-date map for you. You continuing to insist that South = East, is, at, least, difficult to fathom.
https://templemountlocation.com/herodsTemple_theTrumpetingStone.html
Perhaps Ted can help you, in identifying the pertinent landmarks. The “Western Wall”, for instance, is on the Western side.
Michael-
The Temple had extensive underground roads, many of which have been revealed in recent years. The Golden Gates were made unuseable by the Arabs building a cemetery right up against them.
The Aksa is POSITIVELY on the easter edge of the platform and definitely NOT the site of the TEMPLES. It was formerly a byzantine Church converted to a mosque.
Your Archaeological info is WRONG. The Temple Sies are below the DOME. Abd El Malik deliberately built his structure on the Holy site for a good reason, as I’ve explained earlier. Excavations there have disclosed Cedars of Lebanon of the age of the First Temple and a lot more.
In an earthquake zone (Aksa has been destroyed and rebuilt several times because of earthquakes) NO HOLY Temple would be built where it could be toppled over the platform edge.
Besides the City of David, )below the top of the Mount) and the Temples areas have been identified.
You may have overlooked that all descriptions of people going from the City to Te Temple say “aliyah” ascending……….. THIS especially gave the seekers their hint as to where to dig.
And the 1st and 2nd Temple artifacts discovered in the rubble made by illegal Arab under-platform digging have come from around under the Dome. not from under Aksa.
So stop with your unlinked/unverified nonsense. You forgot to mention that Warren’s digging were in the 1860s when Archaeology was extremely crude and ignorant compared to more recent discoveries. He noted the “obvious” and mistook much of the less obvious.
Jose[hus described the fortifications built for defense, which were during the WAR, and not during the Herod construction phase.70 years before.
Because of the wartime construction altering the area, the various “Trumpeting” places and lookouts were temporary, for convenience as one of your highlighted historical descriptions , shows where the archaeologists have made a guess as to where it was because the stated point lacks credibility. and, if the War had been won, would have reverted to the original Temple sites. No doubt about it.
The several roads, some major leading to the Temple from below have been positively identified about 20 years ago. and they lead to the Dome area not Aksa.
Otherwise you are a great Archaeologist………Hmm.
Ted,
Recent archaeology suggests that the area beneath Al Aksa Mosque and the area immediately south of it (including the Hulda Gates and the Ancient Steps) was the site of both Solomon’s and Herod’s temples (see maps on link)
https://templemountlocation.com/herodsTemple_theTrumpetingStone.html
You are, no doubt, familiar with all these places. The TrumpetingStone, found in the rubble immediately below the SW corner of the Al Aqsa plaza, is identified by the Hebrew inscription on it. The trumpeting place
Edgar, You said,
Correction: Al Aksa Mosque is on the southern edge of the Temple Mount.
https://www.generationword.com/images/israel_pictures/Jerusalem/temple_mount/temple_mound_diagram.jpg
TED-
I hope that the “certain amount of LAND” around the Al Aksa “land: implies quite a chunk. I certainly hope it was not more than 8-10 feet wide; enough for a repair access road, or pathway for the curious sightseer..
In earlier days any nation occupying the Mount would have destroyed both Dome and Aksa.
When The Arabs go to pray on the Mount, they go to the al Aksa which is on the eastern edge of the platform. The whole flagstone area in front of the Dome is open and the young Arabs play soccer football on it.
This has been well documented and photographed.
Their “piety” begins and ends at the Aksa entrance.
Mudar as President of Jordan is going to remove Jordan from any role on the TM. He wants Israel to pick their own Wakf. I also raised the possiiliy in the 2017 conference in Jerusalem, of dividing the TM. The Arabs care about the Al Aksa Mosque. That shouldn’t give them jurisdiction over the whole TM. So I suggested that the Al Aksa Mosque should accorded a certain amount of land around it and that the rest of the TM should be an exlusive Jewish holy site.
So if Ben-Gvir is in charge of the police and he makes the decision to allow prayer on the temple mount, we are facing a new round of treason like with the judicial reform if the police refuse to obey their instructions. This sounds as if it were planned a while ago, even before the judicial reform and the 7th of October.
Praise for Itamar Ben-Gvir.
But how will building the third temple affect the other structures on the Mount?
It wasn’t just Dayan’s utter stupidity in removing the flag; his HUGE disastrous error was in handing back the KEYS to that old whiskered gent with the baggy pants. I have a picture of it somewhere. 3 old guys with large moustaches and those funny centuries old fashioned pants, one with palm outstretched to receive the keys.
Disaster in spades.
Moshe Dayan’s removal of the Israeli flag from the Temple Mount in 1967 did more than just cede sovereignty to the Waqf. It signalled to our enemies, who very well to whom the Temple Mount belongs, that we are not serious in our claim to this land so it’s a huge incentive for the Arabs to keep eating away at our existence. We have voluntarily, thanks to the ever perfidious left, assumed the dhimmi position. That position is always reinforced by the the ever present Arab threat of violence and our appeal to “quiet” as in we don’t want to “stir things up”. This is a no win position. Worse. It will get more of us murdered and we will lose more land. The only solution is to vigorously and even agressively assert our well founded rights and let the chips fall where they may. I believe that the Arabs would, after their usual hysterical reaction, calm down and accept reality. Until, of course, they can change it again. So Ben Gvir is the catalyst for that assertion of rights. I wish him hatzlacha!
If memory serves, The Court held that Jews could pray there but left it up to the police to decide whether to permit it. The police decided to not allow Jews to pray.
Then there’s the question of the Mosque…
Jews should pray everywhere – even in Jerusalem. What would break the agreements were if no-one else were allowed to pray there, which is the only reasonable conclusion if we believe the Rabbis. At the end of the day, it is either holy ground, not to be gleefully desecrated by anyone, or not.
I for one hope Moshe Dayan is spinning for eternity in his grave for unilaterally deciding on his own to cede sovereignty over our holiest site. How our world would look differently…..