The talk of legalizing the buildings and communities comes after the NGO Regavim presented MKs with aerial maps showing 2,026 homes in Judea and Samaria that are in danger of demolition due to anticipated petitions by radical leftist groups.
While Jewish Home’s coalition deal with Likud included establishing the team to legalize homes, it appears to have made no mention of the Jewish construction freeze, in an apparent abandonment of an earlier demand to lift the freeze.
The covert freeze on building has reportedly been in place since late 2013, and has continued since then in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem, aside from a handful of building announcements in the capital, even as Jewish Home was in the last coalition government and Ariel served as housing minister.
The future has been foretold we no longer need to follow the news.
@ Bear Klein:
That is interesting information which you cited from the Jerusalem Post. I would not at all be surprised to see the new coalition implement that agreed-upon plan. Among other considerations, settling and keeping at least Area C is obviously vital for the future defense of Israel, along with the opportunity the move would provide to cancel out Fatah’s would-be Palestinian state and its replacement with about eight autonomous but separated Arab cities under control of their local and traditional hamulas which have run their local governments for many centuries. Obviously it is easier to control and keep peace with eight autonomous cities than it is with a terrorist gang in control of all Shomron and Yehuda.
By the way: It is not necessary to argue with your detractors point by point, or, for that matter to argue with them at all. Just gather what you consider to be solid evidence, state you case and move on to another topic, or some different facet of the same topic.
Over whatever period of time it takes, the 2-state solution will die of a half-million or more pin-pricks.
Then, it shall be time to move in on who gets access to the Temple Mount, and usage of the buildings now located on the Mount, and so on. I think the day will come when the wakf will be given a polite but firm choice: Allow the Jewish nation that controls the Jewish state to pray inside the gold-dome building, or the Jewish will carefully dismantle it, box it up, and deliver it all to a site of choice of the wakf, but somewhere in Trans-Jordan, while the Meshiach Committee designs and builds the third temple of the Jewish nation, right on top Mount Moriah, Avraham Aveinu’s hilltop. Just keep up endless and steady pressure, and Jerusalem will in fact as well as theory be Jewish.
About that committee. I always have thought that the “meshiach” will be an activist committee, including a team of city planners, engineers, architects, elected public officials, army officers, and a few blackhats whose rules might allow them to cooperate. And when and as that happens, who will be able to argue that it was not in fact the will of HaShem guiding them all? And who would be interested in even listening to any argument against it? Because it would be like listening to a lecture by any one of a number of contending flat-earth societies.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Bear Klein Said:
how about this, involving $$$$ (money is often a good indicator of fact 😛 )
the good, the bad and the ugly 🙂
ArnoldHarris Said:
I am unable to glean to what I should not “worry” about. I did not express worry but rather a prognosis which is not congruent with my desires.
ArnoldHarris Said:
I am familiar with these concepts having some planning background myself. I can see how such “sprawl” might not “take long to fill the space of area C…. in concept. However, in actuality and fact I see a different pattern having emerged in the past and see absolutely no evidence that the emerged pattern will change in the future with the advent of the same Likud gov in a 3rd term. why do I say this? There have been decades since the advent of the desire to settle YS and although it should not take long to fill the space, we have been witness to the fact that what might naturally happen has been effectively obstructed, as a matter of fact.
The space to be filled quick has not been filled. The question is will that natural sprawl be suddenly allowed to run free unbridled as you would hope or are we likely to see a continuation of the same policies of the past and especially the past 2 terms. I see nothing new which indicates that the policies of the current gov with regards to development OUTSIDE the major blocks will take place according to your hopes and dreams…and mine.
This is a problem I see on Israpundit and with your post: you allow your hopes and dreams to cloud your assessment of current and past reality and facts and rely on the same “futures” and “words” to arrive at a likely outcome. It matters not what sprawl could accomplish, and i myself have suggested a Homestead act like the US with a massive and speedy settlement based on giving land grants to diaspora Jews in YS. Both of our dreams are limited by reality.
ArnoldHarris Said:
Here is the error of your thought: we all want our side to win but wanting is not enough and wanting should not cloud our judgement as to the likelihood of winning. In a war one strives for factual information and a realistic assessment of ones strengths and weaknesses. If wanting to win were enough we need only put our head in the sand and wait for the victory.
ArnoldHarris Said:
I agree it could be accomplished, but what is the likelihood of it being allowed and implemented? I tend to agree that settling Jews is more important than annexation because it will force annexation, but the problem is how to get the gov to allow Jews to settle in YS and not how massive settlement, by sprawl or any other means, would do the trick.
ArnoldHarris Said:
Of course you are right but it is irrelevant because the last right wing gov of 2 terms and continuing did not allow that massive growth to occur, it carefully limited that growth to specific areas.
There is difference between assessing what is possible with assessing what is likely based on facts.
yamit82 Said:
From what I can see he will not need to bypass his cabinet as they will likely agree with him. Kulanu is more left and will agree with leftist positions on YS as long as he gets what he came for, the religious sector seem only interested in their perks and avoiding the draft so if BB give them some of that they will give him some of what he wants; Bennett has probably already agreed that some building in Jerusalem, the major existing blocks to be kept, plus a little token PR on a couple of settlement outposts will be enough and better than nothing. the appearance of disagreeing in public will likely be followed by a rubber stamp of BB agenda. it looks to me that BB has figured out coalition politics whereby you give each one a little of what they want in return for what you want. what he wants is to maintain the status quo with small steps on YS, keep the appearance of a conflict with Abbas going as the rhetoric keeps both in while little changes other than that they strengthen each other,….. I think BB will focus on expanding trade, maintaining equilibrium, building the military, growing the incubator……. and mainly Iran and the GCC.
@ bernard ross:
BR, don’t worry so much over such stuff as you have cited here. I think in the long run they will prove to be nothing more significant than the nikudot supplied for readers of Ivrit kallah.
What I am counting on are the dynamics of urban sprawl, a phenomenon which planners here in the West all decry, but which in the end defeats their best laid plans. The amount of land in the whole of Yesha amounts only to about 2500 square miles, of which Area C is about 1500 square miles. In other words, about 30 x 50 miles. Which makes it the size of an average size county in Wisconsin USA. It doesn’t take long to fill such a space with one or two medium size cities, a few hundred villages, agricultural latifundia, shopping malls, industrial parks, nature preserves, and whatever is needed for military and police bases.
As the Jewish population increases, so too will their political power in Jerusalem. And in places where democracy is taken seriously — and especially populations comprising vociferous, wrangling, spiteful, power-hungry Jews whose cultures stem from a couple of thousand years of existence amid scores of alien cultures, everybody finds ways and means of making demands, and getting some of what they want from a central government which can only cool them down by acceding to at least some of them at a time.
I am not trying to sound sarcastic here. I think all of us know by now how power is developed and exercised in Israel, and I want the forces and processes that I favor to win out. And I think that can be accomplished over time by the tendencies of urban sprawl and conurbation that I studied in Israel and that I have seen in action all across the USA.
And as the Jewish population grows and encroaches around Area C and the annexed parts of Jerusalem, it makes any settlement with Fatah impossible, and also sets in stage Israel’s capability of cutting them off at the knees and replacing them with separate local autonomy agreements with the leading hamulas of the Arab-populated cities, and Israel taking over Area B as well and filling that relatively small segment with the same kinds of Jewish settlements.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Bear Klein Said:
wonderful, I am all ears, lets look at these FACTS which you find to be a positive development:
Bear Klein Said:
HMMMM? expected to formulate…. a plan. this sounds familiar:
So, this same policy already existed since 2011… and whats the result since 2011: nine expansions of existing settlements and four new settlements????? Aside from the incredibly low number I have not even delved into the population of the 4 new settlements, their location to determine if they are really far into YS, etc.
but what did he not do which would actually have been meaningful since 2011 for settlement in YS and for linking YS to Israel???
He neither implemented Levy nor did he build in E1….. but he did make announcements and declarations implying both of these in order to win elections. What is the difference in those issues between the left and BB? the left would not make the announcements to give the impression that they were for the right of Jewish settlement in YS.
What you see with optimism I recognize as a new round of the same old MO of giving words, expectations, plans, plans to formulate policies, policies declared and never implemented, etc etc etc more blah blah blah from those whose life is spent figuring out how to create impressions and promises never to be fulfilled.
furthermore, even if a few settlements outside the major blocks were begun it is a moot point because the mooted deal of the last few years is that BB promised that he would not uproot the Jews from YS as was done by sharon in Gaza and in Yamit. He can keep his promise and give away the land of the outposts with the proposed deal to allow the IDF in the Jordan valley for 5-10 years during which time the out-posters can decide to move back behind the green line or live under Pal sovereignty. See how easy it is to give false impressions and technically say you told the truth???? (note: if he were to follow this plan I would expect that they would give large monetary settlements to the out-posters to move in the first few years which would be another good reason for them to keep the outposts low in number and population.)
The reason he will not build in E1 and intentionally turns a blind eye to euro/pal building in E1 is that he intends to give the pals E1 and only a road will connect to MA. Its all about keeping the settlements at expansion level, keeping any new outposts small in number and population, until such time that the pal and Israeli population both move their acceptance levels leftwards to accommodate a deal envisioned now that cant fly now. Note that the settlement issue has moved to only defending jerusalem, swapping Israeli land for major blocks, outposts undiscussed but kept low and small, etc. There is no longer any meaningful consideration of jews settling YS. It is moving to the percpetion arena of being fringe and extremist. Both sides will be moved to the center within the 5 to 10 year period with the major movement being in the minds of men.
Sorry, I do not agree, but this is what the facts point me toward over The last few years of observing the facts, not the words. It appears to me that few in Israel beleive in the right of Jews to settle in all YS; that they did not vote for settlement when voting BB but they voted for security.
Bear Klein Said:
My understanding is that the Oslo accords do not prevent Jewish settlement in YS. Is Mickey saying that the reason that his party and government have not declared Jewish settlement in YS legal and/or legitimate, have not created any new settlements outside major settlement blocks to be kept, have not implemented Levy,,,,,, is all because of and due to Oslo? Haven’t we heard such talk before Likuds last 2 terms and intermittently from some apparently rogue lkudniks? Politicians like to talk and the product they sell most is talk, declarations, announcements, plans, hopes, expectations………..
I tend to agree with this other likudnik (from the same article)
but wait a minute….. am I to be already disappointed in the details of his very next sentence?
Note carefully how politricks really works: You are given the impression that you have a champion of Jewish rights who wishes to settle YS for Jews on the basis of those rights. But, when we look further we see that he has put an odd limitation on those rights that contradicts the basis of the rights of jewish settlement and instead advances the notion that the settlement is justified instead by that well worn phrase: “natural expansion” of existent populations. This is a term used by revisionists who actually do not at all beleive in the moral, historic and legal rights of Jews to settle ALL of YS. It is a phrase similar the the excuses BB uses when justifying jewish settlements in Jerusalem and in major blocks. Have you ever heard BB say that Jews have a right to settle in ALL of YS????? No, he only says that about jerusalem.
This approach is what keeps the principle of the right of Jewish settlement in the public eye as a fringe extremist idea rather than the actual fact. by not implementing Levy and declaring th eright of Jewish settlement in all YS as a government policy the lies and libels of the delegitimizers of Jewish rights flies like an Eagle while the Jewish rights sink like a stone.
the only real zionist is he who declares that YS belongs to the Jews, even if he decides to give some away for peace. this is also why swaps are illegitimate: if you swap vacant land for the settled blocks you are acknowledging that the Jews stole the land that really belongs to the pals. This is a despicable lie and libel befitting only of the euro, BDS church, and honor killer clique.
therefore, I ask Mickey why does he remain in a party with a leader who depreciates Jewish rights to YS, never even mentions them while at the same time gives the appearance that he is for those rights. shouldn’t Mickey move to BY? surely Likud will continue its policy of pretend for the next term as it did in the previous two.
@ bernard ross: I found the following information to be a positive developement:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s new government is expected to formulate within the next three months a plan to legalize unauthorized West Bank settler construction.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Netanyahus-new-government-to-tackle-authorizing-illegal-settler-construction-402590
@ ArnoldHarris:This MK agrees with you Arnold.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195204#.VU62-PlViko
BB will now rule by edict and stealth bypassing his cabinet on almost any items that could generate opposition. he has always done that but now he will almost exclusivly….
Bibi ‘Won’t Take Liberman Back Even If He Asks’
Liberman’s surprise decision to bolt the coalition is connected to Israel Hayom saga, says analyst.
Former FM reportedly offered Ya’alon’s post to lure Yisrael Beytenu back into government; Liberman apparently turned the role down.
Yeah Sure!!!! 😛
Report: Liberman Offered Defense Ministry
Huh???????? 🙂
Bear Klein Said:
we shall know by what they accomplish, we thought the same before with BB too
Bear Klein Said:
my beleifs are irrelevant to forming a sensible prognosis. You ignored the questions of WHERE in YS and my statements as to where I think it will be in YS and Jerusalem. If I am right as to where, there will be no change from the last 2 terms.
Furthermore, will Benett and BB stop the euros from illegally building pal homes in YS?
@ yamit82:
Your comments frequently are personally abrasive. Nonetheless, and despite that I have disagreements with you over various issues of policy, your comments never fail to provide me facets of consideration that probably would not have occurred to me had you not written about them.
Also, your experiences gained from so many years of residency in and service to the State of Israel, has enabled you to factually discuss Israel’s sometimes painful and abject, but sometimes strongly positive realities. My 18 months studying in Israel was only slight in comparison to your many decades of service.
Therefore, and for whatever it is worth, I strongly defend the presence of your comments about various Israpundit postings. I sincerely hope we both live long enough to see some culmination of the redemption by the Jewish nation of at least the bulk of the territory of Shomron and Yehuda; and further, the redemption by the Jewish nation of full access to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, for purposes not only of appropriate prayer, but also as the greatest of all expressions of Jewish nationalism. Nobody redeems their national rights except by bold force, and that precisely what I want.
Buy yourself a chaitsi falafel with charif, if you like that stuff spicy, on some Saturday night in downtown Jerusalem after the stars come out. And think of me.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ bernard ross: Day one or two of the new government (actually not yet sworn in) the Bayit Yehudi is placed in the correct jobs to make a positive impact.
If your want to believe nothing good can happen, such as Jewish building in Y&S that is your choice. If you want to believe it is not positive or meaningful that Bayit Yehudi is now in ministries that allow for constructive change, your are certainly entitled to your viewpoint.
I hope you are wrong but let us see what happens!
@ Bear Klein:
in addition to last comment:
We may find that BB convinces his coalition leader that his “holding pattern” is the most important in order to build Israels military, security and strategic interests at this pivotal time. He might sell the need to build up weaponry,training, energy, further local diplomatic alliances which are weakening Israel foes, generally maintain the status quo for security reasons. Perhaps the status quo is what is maintaining certain understandings which are at this moment efficacious. If the partners buy the security imperative then each may comprommise more. I expect this to be BB approach.
Bear Klein Said:
I see no moving forward, only talking forward, something pols like to do.
why do I say this?
Bear Klein Said:
his action consists of words which….
Bear Klein Said:
….describe more words which are alleged will be uttered at some future date (words which were not uttered in the past)…..
Bear Klein Said:
…these alleged future demands in words, which may or may not be approved by the coalition, do not mention those certain areas in YS which apparently must remain uncertain in this political present.
are those areas within settlement blocks known to be kept?
are they on the edge of blocks known to be kept?
will any of these demands call for new land to be dedicated to new Jewish settlements in accordance with the principle that Jewish settlement in YS is neither illegal nor illegitimate as western liars allege?
Will new settlements approved by GOI be declared in the Jordan Valley?
will the GOI on announcing future building hid behind declaring that they are within blocks which will be kept, accomodate natural expansion in order to mitigate the image they create of a Jew who is stealing the land of others?
Bear Klein Said:
the story of the half full cup is meant to focus the pessimist on actual facts not on future worries. Often in life folks talk about their future worries and do not enumerate the CURRENT GOOD FACTS. You appear to wish to compare optimism with pessimism as if they exist without a past and a present. Other than words I would like you to state the FACTS which show you a half full cup which resulted from the past 2 terms of BY wrt Jewish settlement?
At my age a discussion of assurances,declarations and promises from politicians is meaningless. words about the future from those who want us to buy dysfunctional present is irrelevant. Deeds not words.
Ask your ben dahan to sign those promises so you can make me eat crow when you are proven in the future to be correct.
rather than empty promises, it is more likely that a coalition of special interests by their nature must compromise and agree to support those bills of the other members which do not directly harm their own interests or they get little support for their own. Therefore I expect Bennett to be watered down and settle for units in Jerusalem and the major blocks to be kept. when you cant get all you want sometimes you settle for getting a small part.
I am surprised that BB was not able to satisfy to cross demands of Liberman and the religious sectors. coalition politics is a horse traders fair and a good negotiator can move things forward, but very slowly.
Ben-Dahan said that “Jewish Home would demand construction not only in Jerusalem, but in certain regions in Samaria and Judea, as well. The party is also committed to strengthening Jewish identity through the educational system”
dove Said:
OK you are out and not included…. Happy? 😛
Bear Klein Said:
If Ben-Dahan really said such an inane statement he is a idiot. There are only two ways the government can be expanded and that is for Labor in total or for individual MK from other parties to bolt their current parties and join the Likud faction….Half of Labor is against and the other won’t bolt/ Herzok will have to wait a year before new party elections are held to get a mandate to join the coalition… a lot can happen in a yuear. So BB is targeting the remains of Liebermans party and Lapids. He might in time steal 4-6 from those parties but will have to payu them dearly to do so…. I don’t see coalition partnmers giving up any of their gains to help him out so the Likud might have to pay the price in full…. If they believe the current government will fall in a year to year and half why join the coalition now. Wait for new elections and get control that way..? Crap shoot for sure but that’s the only way government can be expanded. Obama might put pressure on Labor to join then it becomes potentially a strong possibility…
He BB wants bennett out he can fire all the ministers and replace them, or he can force them to leave the government by a number of actions. That’s why the statement by Ben-Dahan is stupid. They all serve at the pleasure of BB.
@ mar55:
Don’t include me in the we please!
@ yamit82:
With this kind of government, which more resembles an old-fashioned Barnum & Bailey three-ring circus than the parliament of a great and ancient nation, it will be miraculous if the State of Israel survives another decade. Next time I bark about democracy in general and Jewish democracy in particular, don’t join in with commenters who sneer at me as if I were an unrepentant fascist. Maybe I am just that. But even so, I am in fact a member of the Jewish nation, and I care about what happens to our nation.
Bu the raw truth is that, other than rebuilding and keeping Jewish control over Shomron and Yehuda, I have little immediate interest in anything that happens in Israel. Because I seriously think that, without Jewish control over everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River — and even that as a last-ditch temporary boundary until a more powerful Israel can start taking lands east of the river, southwest through most of the Sinai peninsula, and north at least to the river gorge that separates southern Lebanon from the rest of that country, that Israel has no serious likelihood of long-term permanency.
This probably sounds ugly as hell to you. But I have learned over 81 years never to fool myself regarding anything that may prove inescapable.
So that’s the way I think it is. Either take, fill with Jews, and hold a much bigger country, or you always will be the target for a stronger and better organized enemy nation to conquer. I think too, that is exactly why and how ancient Israel was repeatedly overrun and destroyed.
Yes, I know the students of Tanakh and Talmud have religious explanations regarding all the ugliness that happened to our people. But no blackhat I know of ever got around to explaining why and how the Nazis were able to exterminate more than 1/3 of the Jewish nation that they were able to catch and hold in conquered Europe, before their foolish war with Stalin’s Russia crushed the life out of them in 1941-1945. So my answer to all that is to build and expand Jewish power.
And that can only be achieved by a permanently defensible country for all or most of the Jews to live in. And that can only be achieved by conquest and disregard of all the international niceties that rich countries such as the USA invent for everybody else, irrespective of the fact that this same USA stole all its lands from the American Indians.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ yamit82:
Now I feel good Yamit took another swipe at me. Puts me in a very extensive long list of good company (Ben Gurion, Begin, Geller, Ayalon, all Israeli politicians right and left, virtually all the people that have posted on Israpundit).
@ yamit82:
Welcome after your absence. We miss your insightful opinions on Israeli politics.
bernard ross Said:
‘Egypt is Preparing for War with Israel’
Noha Hashad, pro-Israeli nuclear scientist who escaped Egypt after years of torture, says what’s happening in Sinai isn’t what we think.
@ ArnoldHarris:
If this government as consitituted lasts mor than a year it will be miraculous. I thinks serious cracks or worse will be seen within 6 mos.
@ Bear Klein:
The ever optimistic BK, Always confuses piss for rain… 🙂
It takes 3-5 years to put up a house in Y&S and 5 min to destroy it or less. Politically pushing for a few more homes as a tactic is stupid, playing into the hands of the establishment (right or left) (little real differences between them) and efforts and resources that are better put to use, where there will be an immediate visible impact.
I think Bernard Ross’s take on Jewish development in Yesha and annexed Jerusalem is more correct than that of the perpetual negativists, not a few of whom sound like right-wing equivalents of that spiteful woman of Meretz in the Knesset known lately for her on-again/off-again resignations.
A key feature of the present coalition is that any of the coalesced parties can veto any of the administrative actions of any other party. Sort of like the veto powers of the old-time ruling body of Poland that was a prime cause of the 18th century patitions that wiped out Poland in about 30 years.
But back to the present. If Kachlon or the various lords of the Knesset blackhats veto Bennett’s administrative powers in Yesha, then Bennett can retaliate against them dxactly the same way. With its barebones 61-seat majority, this will in fact be a government that walks on eggshells, starting at the apex with Binyamin Netanyahu. He, above all, has the most to lose if this government falls on its collectve ass and new elections are called. And I am sure he knows it. An I am equally sure Kachlon and the blackhats know it. But most important is that Bennett knows it.
So we will see who stops whom from doing what.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ bernard ross:
In this case yes because the Biden, Hillary and the White House all made a huge deal about this building. Otherwise I would agree with you. The US and EU are objecting to any Israeli building past the green line. So actually it is significant. Even though I wished it was not!
Bear Klein Said:
lets see where actual building occurs: I see NO new land areas in C for Jews. Remember, the major achievement that was announced still remains dead: E1. credit was taken, election won, the suckers forget.
Bear Klein Said:
near, not in the arab neighborhood. Now it is a big megillah when Jews build in a Jewish neighborhood. that is how the narrative was moved left… the points of discussion have been moved left by the gov in power the last 2 terms.
@ Bear Klein:
I think building in jerusalem and the major blocks is all you will get, no new land settlements in C outside of that, only for expansion right next to blocks at the most… anything that implies taking more of c for jews will be taboo. I think it has already been agreed.
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/israel-disappoints-us-with-900-new-homes-for-jews/2015/05/08/
We will see if there is more building. I predict that there will be. Big announcements may not take the day. The article Ted, posted made an assumptive deduction but did not present any facts accept that Bennett has secured a mechanism to legalize places in Y/S that were in danger of destruction unless legalized.
Bayit Yehudi now has a lot of power in building in Y/S. In spite of barking dogs who yap at everything and anyone I am optimistic that things will progress in building in Jerusalem and Y/S. Ramat Shlomo yesterday finalized to build 900 more units.
I never trusted these phony right wingers any more than the left! Fact: the left has been more supportive in actual building and populating the territories than the phony pseudo right in Israel…Of course BB is the worst of the worst either from the so called left or right.. Now Bennett’s true colors will be bared and shown publicly for all to see. There will be more of the same and the naive right will have been taken to the cleaners once again 🙁 🙁