T. Belman. I totally agree with getting rid of the PA and looking to Jordan for the solution. But I don’t think the King would go along. Plus he is one of Israel’s enemies. I far prefer to remove the King from power and make Mudar Zahran the President. Mudar will agree to the Jordan River being the border and will not be a thorn in our side as the King currently is.
Jordan should replace the intransigent PLO as Israel’s negotiating partner and end the conflict.
The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) threat to refuse to negotiate with Israel unless President Trump withdraws his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel could see Jordan replacing the PLO as Israel’s negotiating partner to end the 100 years-old Arab-Jewish conflict.
This threat – unless unconditionally revoked – would give Trump the opportunity to consign the PLO to the political wilderness by inviting Jordan to step in and negotiate with Israel over Trump’s eagerly-anticipated “ultimate deal”.
Jordan-Israel negotiations might offer Jordan the opportunity to recover part of Judea and Samaria (“West Bank”) annexed by Jordan in 1950 – albeit illegally – but subsequently lost to Israel in the 1967 Six Day War (legally termed “disputed territory”).
Should Jordan buck at entering into such negotiations – some 60% of the disputed territory – under Israel’s full administrative and security control since the 1995 Oslo Accords and containing just 5% of the West Bank’s entire Arab population (“Area C”) – could be annexed by Israel.
PLO-Israel negotiations over the last twenty-five years – with United Nations, UNESCO and European Union backing – aimed at creating a 22nd Arab state in the disputed territory for the first time ever in recorded history – have failed abysmally.
Such a State was an artificially-contrived creation that could never be justified on historic, geographic or demographic grounds. It had actually been rejected by successive Arab leaderships on many occasions since first being proposed by the 1937 Peel Commission.
Joint 1994 Nobel Peace Prize winners – Israeli leaders Shimon Peres and Yitzchak Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat – all understood Jordan’s pivotal role in ending the Jewish-Arab conflict:
1.Jordan is the major part (78%) of the Palestinian Arabs’ homeland according to article 2 of the PLO Charter.
Farouk Kadoumi – Head of the Political Department of the PLO – reinforced this reality – telling Newsweek on 14 March 1977:
“Jordanians and Palestinians are considered by the PLO as one people.”
2.Peres declared on 31 August 1978:
“Jordan is also Palestine… I’m against two Arab countries and against another Palestinian country, against an Arafat state. Today 50 percent of the inhabitants of Jordan are Palestinians and that is the Palestinian state…
Peres backed this up – telling the Jewish Telegraph on April 19, 1991:
“It is not obstinacy to regard the populations of Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza as having greater similarities than differences. The Jordan River is not deep enough to turn into a knife blade serving to cut one piece of territory into three slices. Most of Jordan’s population are Palestinians: the residents of the West Bank are Jordanian citizens and Jordan has distributed tens of thousands of passports to residents in the Gaza Strip. Jordan is therefore an existing State. It has an army. There is therefore no need to set up another State, another army.
3.Yitzchak Rabin told The Australian newspaper on May 27, 1985:
“One tiny State between Israel and Jordan will solve nothing. It will be a time bomb.”
Rabin’s solution to end the conflict:
“… the Palestinians should have a sovereign State which includes most of the Palestinians. It should be Jordan with a considerable part of the West Bank and Gaza. East of the Jordan River there is enough room to settle the Palestinian refugees.”
Jordan-Israel negotiations on the political future of the disputed territory open up options to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict never before considered.
If Trump’s Jerusalem Declaration helps bring such negotiations about – then President Trump could well succeed where all other American Presidents before him have failed.
Taking on US President Trump could herald the PLO’s political demise after 54 years of failed leadership.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
As they say..(your hint) They’ll keep “struggling”, no mention of retreating to Tunisia to re-group and try again.
In fact that “hind” is purely unneccessary, and bears no connection with our point under discussion….that I can see, except a maybe barely convoluted sort of connection with starting point, which already is 25 years behind them.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
They’ve had that choice all the time from the day they arrived in Israel and decided against Peace. But so far there hasn’t been even a vague scent in the air of such disaster being chosen. They are here on the ground….repeat. on the ground, already a huge success over being isolated in Tunisia.
Assuming that “I” were to be in their shoes and had to make that choice, Tunisia would be the very last thing I would consider, even if every visible available option had been closed. I would be right where I had striven to be , back in Israel, and if things are going against me…all I have to do is wait, this is not an overnight job, it’s a generational one, already pushing to it’s 2nd century, and there re millions of the already well prepared younger generation coming on the scene in waves, even from the early age of 13-14 to begin their lives of Jihad, and slaughter. .
You are not often wrong, and I generally support your position, which I’ve noticed, has slowly been leaning towards nationalist Jewish interests from a more centre-of-the-road attitude, I saw when I began to read you first. My opinion, but you ARE coming out very strong against ANY Arabs being in Israel lately. Exactly my permanent opinion too.
This time with the Tunisia thing, you are wrong. Again in my opinion, but I think it would be the opinion of the large majority, who’d thought about it before answering,.
@ Edgar G.:
Query: Given the choice of going back to Tunisia and starting all over the way the PLO did after the defeat of their mini-state in Lebanon, or recognizing Israel, which do you think Abbas would pick?
Hint:
“3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.”
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ten-point-plan-of-the-plo-june-1974
@ Bear Klein:
I agree 100% all they way down the line. Every words you post is absolute truth. But…
we have some “beauties” in government in Israel and some will undoubtedly want to accept the scenario, which will be just an extra tzorus for us.. There are so many things which arise in squabbling Israel that would never even be noticed in a normal country that I often…indeed ALWAYS wonder where do we get all the right people to sit on the interminable committees and the manifold duties others are appointed to. I t seems to me that nearly every able-bodied (and minded\) citizen has some sort of important appointment and maybe several. Otherwise we need a doubling of the population to get everything time in correct time and sequence. No wonder there are so very many “bottlenecks.
And with our Supreme Court, who needs enemies..
@ Sebastien Zorn:
If you have any certain information that the Terrorists would prefer to go bck to Tunisia unless……I would be very glad to read it. Please post a link if you have one, There is also the point that the Tunisians would be crazy to allow them back into the country. I can believe with certainty that they all breathed a sigh pf relief when the boat sailed…
MRG3105…-Zahran is not such a fool. He would make sure that he would have succession already in place, if something un toward happened to him. He has been on the run for so long that backup would be a natural item to have in place..expecting assassination
@ mrg3105:
But, unlike Abbas, he makes no claim on Israel. And, where is your evidence that he is a “life-long Jew hater.” Furthermore, you are assuming that the Jordanian Opposition Coalition is just him. We have seen the evidence that is not the case — I presume you listened/heard to the conference. So, in the unfortunate event that he is assassinated, there will be like-minded others to pick up the torch. worst-case scenario, some anti-semitic regime comes in, how is that worse than what’s there now? This regime is hostile and unstable. The absence of war is not due to the treaty. There have been more incidents since the treaty. The absence of war is from fear of Israel’s strength.
“Not only Hamas, but even Islamic Jihad is currently deterred from fighting with the Israeli military, former defense minister Moshe Ya’alon told an audience at The Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) at IDC Herzliya.conference Monday night.
Ya’alon said that the beating which the IDF gave Gaza in the 2014 Operation Protective Edge had successfully brought “complete quiet” to the Palestinian enclave, despite small groups of Salafists and ISIS wannabees that occasionally fired rockets into open fields to show their frustration with Hamas.”
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-Islamic-Jihad-currently-deterred-from-fighting-Israel-477427
Jan. 4, 2017
How stupid does one have to be to walk through a ‘door’ opened by a life long Jew hater? Mudar Zahran is an Arab with as much claim on Israel as Abbas. In which figment of imagination does *anyone* imagine a democratic Jordan amidst every type of autocracy that prevails in the Islamic world? What happens if he is killed off by some radical Bedouin with the claim that ‘Jordan’ should not be goverened by foreigners like Zahran who’s parents are from Jerusalem area? Anyone who gets a prize from the UN for any part in the war against Israel is either an enemy of Israel, or a fool, so stop citing this falacious argument from authority. Hitrel too was on the cover of Time four times before the 1945 edition crossed him off.
@ Bear Klein:
And it’s just as important that the Supreme Court be reined in permanently so that it only clarifies the lawn specific situations and doesn’t make laws. In Texas they say, “Remember the Alamo.” In Israel, they should say, “Remember, Gush Katif!”
God assigned to Israel the current state, including Golan Yesh and Gaza, plus Lebanon and southern Syria. An exception was also granted east of the Jordan River, for the tribes of REuben, Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh. Ezekiel did not include Transjordan in his vision of the future state,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel_48
Ezekiel proposed dealing with the Arabs as follows:
Ezekiel 47:
[22] And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
That’s the ancient “road map”. The way I read it, the non-Jewish Israelis will be compelled to convert to Judaism — or, presumably, leave.
The plan involves setting aside land for “The Prince”, which I assume means the Messiah. It’s therefore for a future time. One thing is certain, though: no “two state solution” is involved.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Israel needs to squash of the likelihood of the Pals waiting out the term of Trump and getting a POTUS who would be more favorable to the Pals.
That is why building, building, building is very important in Judea/Samaria. I also believe applying Israeli Civil Law to Jewish Towns in Area C would be very helpful. Legalizing all the outposts would also be very helpful.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
I think Abbas uses this one state solution to scare Israelis into making concessions. Clearly the vast majority of Israelis do not want large numbers of additional Arabs as part of the country. There are some other Arab (Pals) who might be serious about this though. A Bi-National Country with large numbers of hostile Arabs is a disaster.
Abbas has been pushing a return to the one state solution since September:
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ru/contents/articles/originals/2017/10/mahmoud-abbas-opens-up-debate-on-one-state-solution.html
So, he wants the international community to somehow force Israel to accept millions of Muslim Arab migrants and then surrender the country to them.
He also may have had an eye on the stupid political correctness of the Israeli Supreme Court which has been putting obstacles in the way of deporting illegal African migrants in line with the no-borders globalism of the Progressive movement, internationally.
There’s really not much else he can do since they are such fanatics that they would rather go back to Tunisia and start all over then actually give up the only goal they’ve ever had, which is to drive the Jews into the sea.
Again with the copycat tactics. He plans to wait out Trump the way Netanyahu waited out Obama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJtLGJKnvrQ
Not going to happen.
Israel is not giving Jordan any sovereignty west of the Jordan River. The peace treaty reads the border is on the Jordan River. Yes Israel has a problem with too many hostile Arabs in Judea/Samaria but this is not the solution. Maybe it looks that way in Australia (Mr. Singer’s home) but not in the Jordan Valley.
scary ISRAEL has no capable negotiators. proof of the pud is both the ejipt and HASHimit agreements. in both of these the tail out waged the head. ejipt said they would walk if gaza was stuck on them, HASHimites got big control of JERUSALEM. never known a country give away so much for so little.
drive along the Derekh Gandi There are three border crossings between Jordan and Israel.
King Hussein Bridge – Sheikh Hussein – Wadi Araba, not to much to brag about.
Arafat and Obama also won the Nobel Peace Prize. Can anyone else think of any more such winners? (although, this group is plenty.) Maybe possession of a Nobel Peace Prize should be an automatic disqualifier.