A wedding like you have never seen before.

Fascinating

The bride with 25,000 guests: Holding a sash, newlywed, 19, waits for relative to perform a ‘Mitzvah dance’ as she marries into Ultra Orthodox Jewish family

Thousands attended the wedding of the grandson of the leader of the Hasidic dynasty Belz Rebbe yesterday

18-year-old Shalom Rokeach will be the future leader of the Jewish sect – one of the largest in the world

He married 19-year-old bride Hannah Batya Penet in the traditional ceremony which lasted several hours until dawn

Weddings are always a big occasion, but with a guest-list of more than 25,000, this traditional Jewish ceremony dwarfs even the most lavish of nuptials.

Jewish well-wishers from around the world attended the Ultra Orthodox Jewish wedding to witness the marriage of the grandson of the leader of the Hasidic dynasty Belz Rebbe yesterday.

Steeped in tradition, these amazing images show the ceremony of 18-year-old Shalom Rokeach and his 19-year-old bride Hannah Batya Penet in Jerusalem, Israel.

May 26, 2013 | 78 Comments »

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50 Comments / 78 Comments

  1. @ bernard ross:
    “A land which the L-rd thy G-d cares for; the eyes of the L-rd are upon it, from the beginning of the year unto the end of the year.”
    Dvarim (Deuteronomy) 11:12

    When 39 Scud missiles hit the country during the Gulf War,thousands of apartments and buildings were leveled to the ground. Only one Jew died – of a heart attack. It could easily have been hundreds or thousands. During the same time, only one Scud fell into Saudi Arabia and killed many American soldiers.

    “You shall dwell in safety in your land” In your own land, you may dwell in safety, outside your land, there is no safety for you.” The Yalkut on Leviticus 25:18.

  2. yamit82 Said:

    I am optimistic: The Jewish people have never been in a better position than we are today.

    Ihave been thiinking th same re Israel. although noise and threats have been raging, in the last couple of years we see almost every detractor against Israel to be suffering, encountering setbacks, strife, etc.: Egypt, Hamas, arabs, persians, muslims, europe, Obama, Hillary, Erdogan, Syria, Jordan, etc. It goes on and on. Its almost as if the extent of the detraction is reflected in the extent of their suffering: some suffer more and others less. Always there is fear for what may come but at this moment all the enemies are in the shit while Israel prospers and receives blessings in spite of their political leadership. Even though I am harsh in my view as to what Israel should do, perhaps the blessings are due to mitzvahs.

  3. yamit82 Said:

    I love Israel and most Jews, but my advice is to never idealize politicians

    Put not your faith in Princes.

    CB saw the photos of IDF Ladies in their underthings and guns,, he may be willing to trade!!!!!!!!!

  4. yamit82 Said:

    I am optimistic: The Jewish people have never been in a better position than we are today

    An hour before the tornado struck,,,the sun was shinning in OK City!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. honeybee Said:

    I’m at lose at what to think.

    I love Israel and most Jews, but my advice is to never idealize politicians, “any politicians”.

    The real miracle of Israel is that we have not only survived physically but thrived “despite” our stinking leaders. Reminds me of turning curses into blessings:

    King Balak’s offer to Billam the Prophet to curse the Jewish people and G-d’s refusal to allow him to accept. King Balak’s offer to Billam the Prophet to curse the Jewish people and G-d’s refusal to allow him to accept. Balak sent a second negotiating team and Billam was given permission to go. Along the way the incident with the talking donkey occurred. Billam failed his first two attempts at cursing the Bnai Yisrael and blessed them instead. Billam attempted his final curse but again blessed the Jews. As he left in disgrace, Billam told the assembled coalition of kings of their eventual destruction by the Jews. As a parting shot against the Jews, he advised Balak to seduce the Jewish men with Midianite women which would bring G-d’s wrath down upon the nation. Ended with Pinchas (Phineas) saving the Jews.

    If you think my criticisms are harsh read the Biblical Prophets. Listen to this:http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Player.aspx#0#1547 works best for me with Explorer Browser if you have any problems.

    I am optimistic: The Jewish people have never been in a better position than we are today.

  6. @ yamit82:

    I read all of your comments,especially the serious ones. I find this especially upsetting. I have always ,here to fore, regarded Bibi and Israel in such high regard and now I’m at lose at what to think.

  7. @ yamit82:
    That’s a very good summary of the Israeli situation.

    It seems that those who were opposed to a Jewish state and preferred to be a European cosmopolitan clone and protectorate of Great Britain were those who managed to gain or usurp power and have never given it up since. When you control the courts, media, press, financial institutions,the arts and academia; you control all of the fulcrums of power in our society. Even the IDF has long been politicized and only certain officers are promoted to the top decision making positions. They are mostly careerists who tow the party line or never get key promotions. The best, brightest and most qualified never get past middle level command ranks and positions. Same for the Mossad and the Shin Bet.

    The part that still needs to be discussed is how to wake up the population. It may take only a small number of activists to effect big changes in Israel. The problem until now may have been one of poor strategy and lack of unity.

    Anyway, the issue of waking up the population reminds me of the US in 2001. After the attack on the WTC the country was ready to believe anything the govt told them, to go and fight any war, and to make any sacrifice. ~~~ Much has changed since then. There is a much higher level of awareness and distrust. And it has only been 11 years since 9/11. Many are also disappointed with Obama, although they don’t dare to voice their thoughts.

    There is a tipping point beyond which governments can’t lie anymore (so they have to use force). I’m waiting for Israelis to reach their tipping point. Sadly, they still seem to believe that their govt will save them from the Iranian nukes, and will maintain peace through appeasement and surrender of Jewish land. How much longer will it be till they realize they’re being swindled?

  8. Yamit82, I am at a disadvantage. You are an Israeli. You can enumerate all the malfunctions of Israeli society. All I know is what I read and that from a distance.

    I will concede your point: “When you control the courts, media, press, financial institutions, the arts and academia; you control all of the fulcrums of power in our society.” I might observe that may be a truism applicable to any polity.

    However, if you seem so disgruntled with the ways of Israeli governance and many aspects of the social the order, tell me, why do you not become political and work to create a political party? Israel is a Jewish democratic state, notwithstanding the argument of some Israelis and its enemies.

    If I were an Israeli I feel I would be able to cope with its alleged defects whereas its survival would concern me most of all knowing all nations, in their terms, are as deficient in the same way you say exist in Israel.

    Consider: I have Mr. Obama to contend with!

  9. martin Said:

    I posted the item twice first on May 29th, which you received late because it was blocked by the spam filter. So anticipating that it would be either late or a no show, I just posted the link, which you originally replied to.

    It seems that those who were opposed to a Jewish state and preferred to be a European cosmopolitan clone and protectorate of Great Britain were those who managed to gain or usurp power and have never given it up since. When you control the courts, media, press, financial institutions,the arts and academia; you control all of the fulcrums of power in our society. Even the IDF has long been politicized and only certain officers are promoted to the top decision making positions. They are mostly careerists who tow the party line or never get key promotions. The best, brightest and most qualified never get past middle level command ranks and positions. Same for the Mossad and the Shin Bet.

    A French Philosopher once observed: that if the Jews ever regained their sovereign state, “They Would Sell It”

    Israel could be the poster child for the “Peter principle”.

    Lastly our leaders are corruptible and mostly corrupted as there are no real checks and balances. America has had a decisive corrupting influence on our politicians and IDF senior officer corp. Christian missionaries are bribing our politicians in order to gain stronger positions in Israel.

    Most of the Israelis I know don’t have a clue, they are no better than Sheeple, Useful idiots in some cases and Lumpen Proletariat. Most know something is wrong but few can really define what’s wrong at the core.

  10. I don’t wish to be accused of beating a dead horse. Let me try to resolve a communication that may be redundant because repetitious.

    I received today, June 2, a comment by Yamit82. It was the same comment he replied to me on May 29. To easily identify my reply to him I referenced a work titled “Sampson Blinded”

    Let me try one more time. I concede Yamit82 is more knowledgeable on the history of Israel than I. I first became interested in the Arab/Israeli conflict in 2002 and to more fully understand the issues I was a volunteer with the IDF for three weeks and on my week-ends free I spent time with knowledgeable persons to explore my concerns regarding Israel’s survival. Also in my defense I have accumulated an extensive 75 volume library — on both sides of the the Arab/Israeli conflict – since 2002. The latest is Michael Curtis’s “Should Israel Exist?” (Published 2012).

    That said, let me say my accusation of Israel’s stupidity is not to say they are intellectually wanting, I know better, but after all of 5 wars and other military actions, after permitting their enemies to become stronger, after all that has transpired since 1967 – you know the dismal history – you mean to tell me they have yet to find or to devise a feasible solution of their fundamental desire: The universal recognition of Israel as a nation state for Jews.

    Perhaps Yamit82 is correct: my impatience reflects my ignorance.

  11. I am grateful to Yamit82 for referencing a link to SAMSON BLINDED. It is many years since I fell under the spell of Obadiah Shoher, who penned a masterful book, titled ” Samson Blinded:
    A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict”. It does not do justice to offer a few quotes but one in particular relates to my 2nd and 4th blunder of which Shoher writes:

    “Israel should drive the Palestinians into Jordan and Lebanon and treat the other Arabs with kind indifference but react with cruelty to any violation of her interests. Negotiators know an opponent is much more likely to give way if pressured from the beginning and then offered a way out. Human nature often leads one to seek the friendship of a strong and haughty neighbor. In both personal and international relations, a strong, accommodating neighbor can provoke hatred. People find satisfaction in attacking a weak giant or at least showing him disregard. When the giant is likely to punish the attack, the best bet is to associate with him. As the saying goes, “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.” .

    “While few Arabs hated Jews a century ago, they despise them now, because the Israelis combine weakness with anti-Arab ambitions, the worst mix possible.”

    “Nations come and go or are dismantled. The balance of power is amoral, and power belongs to those who are willing to pursue their principles ruthlessly, especially when those principles involve no murder or looting but only a desire to reestablish the biblical entity. The Palestinians do not stand a chance. They have no distinctive culture, no attachment to the land, no national or religious identity. They are dispersed, disliked by Jews as sworn enemies and by other Arabs as rascals, brigands, and terrorists. Even if a Palestinian state is created, its Arab neighbors will swallow it up.”

    You can imagine if Shoher puts a “Machiavellian Perspective” on the Middle East Conflict his perscription for a resolution will be far from a pacifist’s opposition to violence as a means of settling disputes.

    Shoher’s book, all 291 pages, is freely available for downloading. I would be glad to eamil a free copy to anyone interested. If any intelligent Israeli fails to read this book and consider it’s message carefully he is doing himself and his nation a serious disservice.

  12. martin Said:

    Israeli’s are not known for being stupid, but they behave that way. After walking the razor’s edge for so long one would expect the Israelis would be more inclined to bring this fight to a close as they have far more to gain economically by peace than continue to suffer the present allocation of manpower and vital resources to the defense of life and land.

    To understand Israel you need to first understand historical context, here is part of the answer:

  13. martin Said:

    Israeli’s are not known for being stupid, but they behave that way. After walking the razor’s edge for so long one would expect the Israelis would be more inclined to bring this fight to a close as they have far more to gain economically by peace than continue to suffer the present allocation of manpower and vital resources to the defense of life and land.

    To understand Israel you need to first understand historical context, here is part of the answer:

    Zionists were originally a pretty tough folk, not incomparable to South African Boers. Economically leftist, they were ultra-right in political matters. Kibbutzniks had common property, and the Histadrut code of ethics prohibited such “excesses” as owning paintings, but Jewish workers and peasants knew that they had to conquer the country and take it from the Arabs, and they had few qualms about retaliating against the Arabs. Before the 1930s, Jews knew their enemies clearly, and their enemies were Arabs.

    The situation started to change with the Nazis’ rise to power. Arguably, it might have changed anyway, as the Jews matured and became moderate. Be that as it may, in real history the change began with the Nazis.

    Supreme Court of Israel originated with Nazis

    In repressions against Jews in Germany, Zionists saw a great opportunity to further their emigration to Palestine. Importantly for the fledgling Jewish Agency, the new immigrants were generally affluent, which also sat well with the British occupiers. German Jews were normally able to amass the minimal amount required to qualify them for “capitalist” visas. Assimilationist Jews who wished to stay in the Diaspora screamed treason. Rabbi Stephen Wise tried to organize a worldwide boycott of Nazi Germany, but the Zionists frustrated his plans: they felt they had to use the opportunity to bring many more Jews to the Land of Israel, rather than protect them in the Exile. The argument was cynical but true. Zionists also pointed out that Wise’s boycott would greatly endanger German Jews, as indeed happened. For Wise, too, the boycott was largely a political thing. Later events showed how little that American rabbinical leader cared about Jews; he lashed out against Hillel Kook and refused to put any pressure on the US Administration to bomb the death camps. In all probability, Wise’s boycott attempt was one of Roosevelt’s ploys against Germany.

    Jabotinsky’s Revisionist Movement was torn between the desire to increase the flow of Jews to Palestine and the traditional right-wing goal of protecting them in the Exile. Jabotinsky, a witness to Ukrainian and Byelorussian pogroms at the turn of the twentieth century, could not abandon the German Jews. The Nazis tolerated Betar training camps because their ultimate goal was ridding Germany of Jews. In the end, Jabotinsky nominally divested from German Betar to avoid endangering it in his own boycott activities.

    For mainstream Zionists, the year 1933 started a windfall of haavara, an exchange in which Germany allowed its Jews to leave for Palestine with large amounts of money and possessions. Short of foreign exchange, the Germans devised a solution acceptable to the Zionists: the departing German Jews would pay for local goods with deutschmarks; the goods would be then exported to Palestine, where Zionist enterprises would sell them and pay the arriving immigrants. The solution was a win-win one: Germany rid itself of some Jews, and the Jewish Agency received about a 35 percent profit on the transactions. Unbeknownst to German Jews at that time, they also profited handsomely—by having their lives saved. Still, only about a tenth of German Jews moved to Palestine.

    They were unlike those who had come before. The religious Jewish immigrants were not hugely productive but highly charged ideologically. Zionist immigrants were not religious but hugely productive. German Jews (yekkes) were neither. Like most of the 1990s Russian aliyah, the yekkes were fleeing domestic troubles rather than ascending to the Land of Israel. The assimilated mob hardly even associated itself with Jews, and not at all with Zionists. Many expected to return to Germany after the Nazis’ rule was over. In the haavara scheme, Zionists played with the devil and lost: German Jewish immigrants amalgamated into a powerful anti-Zionist force. They spoke German, scorned the redneck Palestinian Jewish culture, ignored religion, and snobbishly viewed themselves as Europeans in an Asiatic land. Common Jews answered them in kind, and the alienation grew. Detested and scornful, German Jews were the Peace Now of that time.

    Lacking Zionist ideals, the cosmopolitan yekkes became the major voice behind the idea of a binational state, or even Jewish autonomy under British rule. They advocated peaceful solutions and accommodation of Arabs. The German Jews were remarkably pacifist as a matter of law-obedience. They had an aversion to mob violence, and they suffered from guilt. They lived under the tremendous guilt of “the drowned and the saved.” They could not forget that the immigration certificates handed to them were refused to others, who subsequently perished. By helping the Arabs, they mitigated their failure to help European Jews

    The British occupiers turned the Jewish Agency (Sohnut) into a Judenrat. The British issued to the Sohnut a limited number of immigration permits, which it distributed at its own discretion. In effect, the British made Jews to perform selektzia, choosing between life and death for their compatriots. The Sohnut acted sometimes cynically, other times sensibly or desperately. It distributed visas to Palestine among its socialist supporters and to young people with agricultural training. But before Germany occupied Poland in 1939, Sohnut passed half its visas to German Jews who, at 500,000, were just 17 percent of the total number of Jews in Poland. Naturally, the Jewish Agency thought the German Jews were in more immediate danger than the Polish ones. The yekkes, accordingly, lived with the knowledge that they had received their visas as a matter of Sohnut’s misjudgment, even though they weren’t qualified by age and profession.

    Many German Jews who came to Palestine did not have a trade or means to secure productive employment. Nor did they want one, as they viewed redneck Jews with disdain. Later, the Israeli “cultural elite” became infected with this attitude.

    When the Jewish state had been formed, the yekkes were the only educated class. Automatically, they became academics, media professionals, and judges. They imprinted German values on their students. Those were the extremely nihilist values of the most assimilated Jewish community of the time. If God had a purpose in the Holocaust, it could only have been stopping the assimilation, preventing that plague from coming to the Land of Israel, just as a generation of the Exile had to die in the desert. That purpose had failed, as yekkes exerted disproportionate, overwhelming influence over the Israeli educated class.

    Politically, the Germanized court system received a major boost when Herut-Likud first came to power thirty years ago. Socialists recognized that the changing Israeli demographics would spell an end to their dominance: Sephardic Jews had bitter personal experience with Arabs and would vote for right-wing parties. Here came the Supreme Court option: if the court elects its own members, it becomes completely insulated from the changes in public opinion—and incidentally, from Zionism too. Common Israelis may vote for whomever they like, but in the end the Supreme Court would control legislation—striking down some laws, ammending others still in the Knesset by informing MKs of the court’s opinion—and dictate new laws in the court’s decisions. The Supreme Court has even assumed executive power by ruling on the army’s actions, the route of the separation barrier, and myriad other issues, which amounted to its managing the country.

  14. Yamit82 asked:What are the first three blunders of Israel?

    I’m sorry if they all did not appear. I don’t think I was edited. Let me amend and try again and this time highlight the blunders –I will insert numbers:(1),(2),(3),(4), first appearing in the 11th paragraph:

    Israeli’s are not known for being stupid, but they behave that way. After walking the razor’s edge for so long one would expect the Israelis would be more inclined to bring this fight to a close as they have far more to gain economically by peace than continue to suffer the present allocation of manpower and vital resources to the defense of life and land.

    What would the Palestinians gain? Not much, as far as I can understand the Palestinian economic and social status. They constantly claim they are suffering, constrained, and harassed and solicit compassion and support from all quarters as a hapless victim of the Israeli occupation. There may be many ordinary Palestinians who would welcome peace as it could give them an opportunity to obtain a nice job in Israel is hardly ever mentioned. Permit me to suggest an explanation why the conflict persists.

    First, that the Arabs do not appear to be as eager as are the Israelis to bring the conflict to a close. One may logically infer this as a valid and reasonable conclusion by their continual unilateral acts of physical conflict. Killing Jews is not a sign of peaceful intent. We note here rockets are not being fired from Israeli soil.

    Second, the dominate leadership of the Palestinians are apparently quite content to keep pressing their political interests in physical combat terms, as the cost of conflict in terms of money and resources seem to be inexhaustible, whatever the source. Why concede?

    Third, what then can also be logically inferred by their acts of violence is they simply couldn’t care less if the conflict would come to an end, or the rockets would stop.
    Social psychologists have developed a well known rule of understanding personal relationships. The rule says: The party who cares the least controls the relationship.

    That makes sense, when you come to think about it.

    It is then fair to say that the Palestinians are the controlling party? This way of assessing the conflict is hardly ever mentioned, as I can recall. But, on the principle of Occam’s Razor, it does offer a plausible explanation without complex analytics why the conflict has persisted and will continue unabated until Israel come to its senses and resolve to end it, one way or another, because the Palestinians couldn’t care less.

    That makes sense, does it not?

    The timid may argue peace, in anything approaching a final agreement, appears to be unattainable. It’s not a disciplined state we are dealing with, but a diverse and mutually antagonistic collection of religiously inspired gangs. So how can Israel bring it to an end as she will not slaughter or expel them all, or even a large number.

    The policy to be adopted is obvious; so obvious, perhaps, it escaped the Israelis. One should simply ignore the Arabs gangs — they are due no recognition, no conversation, and no contact from a nation state. The Palestinians gangs were not a state in the conflict between states. In time they will no longer be in control. I says this because the answer to the question “What do the Israelis owe the Arabs for the privilege of defeating them in war?” The answer is “nothing”.

    If any negotiation was necessary it could have been with Egypt and Jordan in 1948. But failure to annex in 1967 was the (1) first blunder. The fact the Arabs announces the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinians is none of Israel’s business so why give recognition which confers standing. This was the (2)second blunder. As there is no state with which to negotiate, why agree to negotiate? Oslo is the (3)third blunder. A weaker party to a conflict will always agree to negotiate.

    Keeping the Palestinians at bay is not a wise coping policy. The reason is clear–it is not a resolution, it is nothing but continual bleeding, a policy for the timid. Israel does not have enough Jewish blood to bleed forever. And most important, it is embarrassing if not cruel to inflict on your young adults the burden to bleed.

    Israel will not have the guts to expel them all, or even a large number but a transfer to Gaza can be accomplished. As Ben Shapiro says, “Transfer is not a dirty word”. Failure to transfer is the (4)fourth blunder. I have not called Gaza a blunder. Blunders can be corrected. But conceding land is on the order of self-mutilation of a mad man amputating his legs. Nothing remains but profound regrets.

    What will it take for Israel to decide at long last to control rather than be controlled, to be the organ grinder, not the monkey?

    You tell me.

    Martin

    PS Highlighting does not appear when pasting the word document. But the numbers are there.

  15. @ bernard ross:
    Bernard it means your ALWAYS being modified!!!!!!!! “Got your A– in a crack” is a Barry Goldwater saying, for geting yourself in trouble.

  16. honeybee Said:

    What are the first three blunders?

    martin Said:

    Honeybee asked a fair question. Permit me to reply:

    First, the Arab elites do not appear to be as eager as are the Israelis to bring the conflict to a close. One may logically infer this as a valid and reasonable conclusion by their continual unilateral acts of physical conflict. Killing Jews is not a sign of peaceful intent. Note that no rockets are being fired from Israeli soil.

    Second, the dominate leadership of the Palestinians are apparently quite content to keep pressing their political interests in physical combat terms, as the cost of conflict in terms of money and resources seem to be inexhaustible, whatever the source. Why concede?

    Third, what then can also be logically inferred by their acts of violence is they simply couldn’t care less if the conflict would come to an end, or the rockets would stop.

    What are the first three blunders of Israel?

    You have not listed any specific to Israel.

    just list them in any order you choose.

    Like: 1,2,3.

  17. honeybee Said:

    Mr Shane you always got your” A– in a Crack.”

    what do you mean?
    (i dont remember the shane story and isn’t every A cracked?)

  18. martin Said:

    to be the organ grinder, not the monkey?

    martin Said:

    “Transfer is not a dirty word”

    martin Said:

    Keeping the Palestinians at bay is not a wise coping policy.

    martin Said:

    The party who cares the least controls the relationship.

    martin Said:

    the Palestinians are apparently quite content……as the cost of conflict in terms of money and resources seem to be inexhaustible,…….. Why concede?

    martin Said:

    the Arab elites do not appear to be as eager as are the Israelis to bring the conflict to a close.

    well said

  19. Honeybee asked a fair question. Permit me to reply:

    Israeli’s are not known for being stupid, but they behave that way. After walking the razor’s edge for so long one would expect the Israelis would be more inclined to bring this fight to a close as they have far more to gain socially, politically and economically by peace than continue to suffer the present allocation of manpower and vital resources to the defense of life and land.

    What would the Palestinians gain? Not much, as far as I can understand the Palestinian’s economic and social condition. They constantly claim they are suffering, constrained, and harassed and solicit compassion and support from all quarters as a hapless victim of the Israeli occupation. There may be many ordinary Palestinians who would welcome peace as it could give them an opportunity to obtain a nice job in Israel is hardly ever mentioned. Permit me to suggest an explanation why the conflict persists and the blunders Israel committed.

    First, the Arab elites do not appear to be as eager as are the Israelis to bring the conflict to a close. One may logically infer this as a valid and reasonable conclusion by their continual unilateral acts of physical conflict. Killing Jews is not a sign of peaceful intent. Note that no rockets are being fired from Israeli soil.

    Second, the dominate leadership of the Palestinians are apparently quite content to keep pressing their political interests in physical combat terms, as the cost of conflict in terms of money and resources seem to be inexhaustible, whatever the source. Why concede?

    Third, what then can also be logically inferred by their acts of violence is they simply couldn’t care less if the conflict would come to an end, or the rockets would stop.
    Social psychologists have developed a well known rule of understanding the dynamics of a multi-party relationships. Briefly, the rule says: The party who cares the least controls the relationship.

    That makes sense, when you come to think about it.

    It is then fair to say that the Palestinians are the controlling party? This way of assessing the conflict is hardly ever mentioned, as I can recall. But, on the principle of Occam’s Razor, it does offer a plausible explanation without complex analytics why the conflict has persisted and will continue unabated until Israel come to its senses and resolve to end it, one way or another, because the Palestinians couldn’t care less.

    That too makes sense, does it not?

    The timid may argue peace, in anything approaching a final agreement, appears to be unattainable. It’s not a disciplined state Israel is dealing with, but a diverse and mutually antagonistic collection of religiously inspired gangs. So how can Israel bring it to an end as she will not expel them all, or even a large number.

    The policy to be adopted is obvious; so obvious, perhaps, it escaped the Israelis. One should simply ignore the Arabs gangs — they are due no recognition, no conversation, and no contact from a nation state. The Palestinians gangs are not a state in the conflict between states. In time they will no longer be in control. I says this because the answer to the question “What do the Israelis owe the Arabs for the privilege of defeating them in war?” The answer is “nothing”.

    If any negotiation was necessary it could have been with Egypt and Jordan in 1948. But failure to annex in 1967 was the first blunder. The fact the Arabs announced the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinians is none of Israel’s business. Why give recognition which confers standing. This was the second blunder. As there is no state with which to negotiate, why agree to negotiate? Oslo is the third blunder. A weaker party to a conflict will always agree to negotiate. What we witnessed is a nation with a might military component stoops but does not conquer.

    Keeping the Palestinians at bay is not a wise coping policy. The reason is clear–it is not a resolution, it is nothing but continual bleeding, a policy for the timid. Israel does not have enough Jewish blood to bleed forever. And most important, it is embarrassing if not cruel to inflict on Israel’s young adults the burden to bleed.

    Perhaps Israel will not have the guts to expel them all, or even a large number but a transfer of Arabs to a contiguous Arab state called Gaza can be accomplished. As Ben Shapiro says, “Transfer is not a dirty word”. I have not called Gaza a blunder. Blunders can be corrected. But conceding land is on the order of self-mutilation as a mad man amputating a leg. Nothing remains but profound regrets forever.

    What will it take for Israel to decide at long last to control rather than be controlled, to be the organ grinder, not the monkey?

    You tell me.

    Martin
    mdk4130@aol.com

  20. martin Said:

    Not doing something like this was the fourth stupid blunder Israeli committed in its short history.

    What are the first three blunders?

  21. Now let’s all just cool down. In time the apparent problems with the Hasidim will be solved. You cannot simply provide the level of service the state offers and the special treatment accorded to them for whatever reason offered by the founders of the State and then expect it to cease over night. Think clearly.

    If you are so interested in Israel and you wish make an argument for improving the state of Israel just eliminate the Israeli Arabs who contribute less than the Hasidim; actually they are a negative factor and the sooner Israel is free of them the better. That ought to be your focus, not Jews.

    How is it possible to eliminate in the course of time the Arabs in a democratic society? Every society has the power to define who is to be considered a citizen. If Israel is supposed to be a state for the Jews then make it a state for the Jews. The State will simply confer citizenship on all persons born of a Jewish mother AND Father. There is no logical reason to prevent Israeli Jews performing politically as a democratic state. Jews will vote. As the present Arab Israeli citizens advance in age their political status will soon bye and bye be a thing of the past.

    Not doing something like this was the fourth stupid blunder Israeli committed in its short history.

  22. Shy Guy Said:

    I want to know: Did David Hamelech have 25,000 people at his weddings?

    dunno? Which of his weddings? How many did he have? How many did attend each wedding? Poor Michal.. 🙁

    The immodest opulence is disgraceful.

    Seems that with so many impoverished Hasidim, that not only this wedding displayed disgusting and immoral opulence the, the waste in their lavish institutional buildings and projects is counter to Torah injunctions.

    I really HATE the wide use of the shtreimel (Yiddish): for a fur hat worn by many married haredi Jewish men. The shtreimel is typically custom-made for the intended wearer, of genuine fur, from the tips of the tails typically of Canadian or Russian sable, stone marten, baum marten (Pine Marten), or American gray fox. The shtreimel is the most costly article of Hasidic clothing, ranging in price from US$1,000 to US$5,400. Even synthetic ones can exceed $1000. Not only do such head gear have no connection to Judaism it is an expense born by mostly poor and impoverished Jews. The real ones made from many murdered animals for that unholy purpose is an abomination that is in direct opposition with The laws regarding treatment of animals are referred to as Tzar Baalei Chayim, prevention of cruelty to animals. Blessed be The Shtreimel Makers

    The days of these rebbe handmedown dynasties should have been over already. “I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas Galitzia any more.”

    “Better a poor and wise child than an old and foolish king, who no longer knows to receive admonition.” Kohelet 3:13

  23. yamit82 Said:

    You have said you are a Veteran,to you and all others who served,thank you.
    You’re welcome.

    Welcome back from Viet Nam xxxxxxxxxxxoooooooooooooooo

  24. I took time this afternoon to research Netzach Yehuda, which has grown into a full-size battalion (about 1000 soldiers) of Zahal. Netzach Yehuda, which I had never heard of before today, comprises recruit age trainees and soldiers from the Haredi (“straight-line observant”) Jewish background. The unit apparently dates a number of years and has steadily grown in popularity and usefulness in defense of the State of Israel.

    I discovered all this in the process of random searches on Google. Apparently, a new group of Haredi Jewish troopers being inducted into Zahal service, like any other group of young Israelis fulfilling their military service duties. On further reading, it turns out members of the Netzach Yehuda battalion has been in combat against Arab terrorists. The incident I read about cost one of them his life, while one of his unit buddies killed the terrorist.

    On deeper reflection, I think units of strictly religious young Jewish men are a model of the army that Israel will be deploying in greater numbers in coming years. There is no fundamental split between the Jewish nation as a whole and observant Judaism as a living part of our nation. Almost certainly,it was because of their steadfastness over the past two millenia that the Jewish nation survived to fight for and return in great numbers of Eretz-Yisrael.

    So I retract some of what I said about the religious Jews in my first comment on this thread. Because I think I know more now about this topic than I did this morning. Not all the minds of the Haredim will change immediately or even in the near future. But more and more of these fine young Jewish scholars will serve as fine young soldiers in the army of the Jewish nation.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  25. @ ArnoldHarris:
    I didn’t say you had to join the Israeli Army. There are other ways to be on the front lines FOR OUR HOMELAND!! I have actually served on many fronts. My successes are well documented and will be public some day. Now is not the time. I continue to be on the frontline which I realize is my lifelong calling.

  26. @ dove:
    I’m a 79 year old who will be 80 early next April. What kind of army would want to accept my services?

    As a matter of record, I served in the United States Army immediately after a finished high school in 1952, and served one year on reserve duty and two years active duty. The Korean War ended shortly after I was assigned to an active duty unit, and I spent the rest of my US Army service at two large training camps in the USA. All this was about 60 years ago, when most people reading these comments probably had not yet been born.

    Who or what did you ever serve?

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  27. Samuel Fistel Said:

    Since the Torah-true Kharedim automatically opposed any idea proposed by the atheists, they dug in their heels, and proclaimed (on shaky and controversial) Talmudic grounds, that it was absolutely forbidden for Jews to emigrate to Israel until they were all miraculously led there by G-d, no matter how long that might take. (The christians call this view pre-millenialism; i.e., that the messiah will not come until the suffering on earth becomes unbearable).

    “And they scorned the desirable land.” (Psalms 106)

    “And so they invent all kinds of rationales, all cloaked in a tallit that is all blue. “Israel is also Exile…” “This is not the beginning of the redemption, merely the footsteps of the Messiah…”

    Do they understand what they speak? Can one look at a state that rises miraculously after two millennia and watch an ingathering of exiles from a hundred lands and not see in this the beginning of the great vision and redemption? Regardless of the sins and abominations in the land?

    No, that which we do not wish to do, we do not. But first, we must stamp the swine with the halachic label of kosher…” The Religious Jew(Kahane HY”D) http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/a-fearless-leader-six-years-since-the-murder-rabbi-kahane-hyd/

  28. Samuel Fistel Said:

    it was absolutely forbidden for Jews to emigrate to Israel until they were all miraculously led there by G-d, no matter how long that might take.

    Thanks for your observations. I wonder why some of them are in Israel, were they “miraculously led there”? It seems to me that there is a sort of vanity in deciding how HaShem will take them there, perhaps He has his own method and does not feel obligated to get their approval. It reminds me of a joke from Yamits oft posted site of “Old Jews telling Jokes” where a rabbi was warned by many repeatedly to leave his house due to flooding. His reply was that G_D will take care of him. After he drowned he asked G_D why he didn’t save him and G_D replied that he had repeatedly sent people to save him but he refused to leave. It seems to me that Israel is an obvious miracle which should satisfy those seeking miracles but they wish to evaluate whether the miracle is good enough for them. for me they actually have little faith in G_D and a lot of faith in themselves.
    Samuel Fistel Said:

    by their interceding with G-d to protect the atheists and the atheistic military, and not to punish them for their atheism

    They have appointed themselves to high positions of importance. Hopefully, G_D agrees with their self important views of themselves. It is interesting that they accept the exile as G_D’s will but not the ingathering of jews to Israel. Perhaps G_D should resubmit His creation to them for their approval, and acceptance, when He has perfected it to their satisfaction.

  29. yamit82 Said:

    they join with all the others in the ecumenical worship of the Golden Calf of our times: The Golden Exile of thought,deed and place.

    Very well put. I have often felt guilty for a gut feeling of repulsion related to these people that I could not explain to myself. They never felt Jewish to me, they felt yiddish. They appear to me to embrace everything that repulses me about europe. Is as if their loyalty is to poland and europe and have no love for Israel. Its an insult that they are even in Israel and have any in influence on Jews. Everything about the exile turns me off. I prefer the Jew of Israel before the exile and the culture of those times. It is cartoonish that they dress like robot clones in polish fashions of 200 years ago,mimicking their polish masters; what the hell is that to do with Judaism? It is like a black man dressing up in a confederate uniform singing dixie in whiteface: it repulses me deeply. Why would I take Torah from someone like that? For me they lack credibility for interpreting Torah. Their choices appear prima facie wrong. Their involvement with this wedding is like the worship of the Golden Calf, an exercise in vanity and gluttony. My family is from Poland and Germany and unlike them I have no attractions for, or wish to be reminded of those places.

  30. yamit82 Said:

    our hard work and sacrifices when things get tough for them in other countries.

    yamit82 Said:

    ificing so others can take advantage of our hard work and sacrifices when things get tough for them in other countries.

    You have a valid arguement

  31. Laura Said:

    Why do Jews feel the need to explain and take a defensive posture regarding their people and then proceed to distance themselves from Haredim? We should stop caring about what others think of us.

    We can criticize Hasidics amongst ourselves, but not to others.

    I agree!!!!!!!!!!

    Most Jews especially the nonobservant are ashamed and embarrassed of them. From a certain Jewish POV they are correct. If the IDF is to be able to incorporate ultra religious Jews they have to be sensitive and accommodating to their religious peculiarities like Glatt kosher, strict non violation of Shabbat, time for Torah study and prayer and the complete separation of men and women. Till now the IDF has only made some halfhearted adjustments for them.

    The Irony is that those anti religious Jews who want to break the ultra-religious by forcing the draft on them will have helped create the exact thing they are against MAKING THE IDF A TRULY JEWISH ARMY, that will spin off into civilian life and help to make all of Israeli society more religiously observant.

    Keeping some perspective; there are more non religious draft evaders mostly from the materially well off and ideological left in Israel than there are Haredi draft evaders but for those there is silence even social acceptance of them.

    Then nobody is really pushing for equality of service by imposing the draft on our Arab citizens….Are they? Is this some form of antisemitism in reverse?

    My personal view is (stated in my comment #3) is that every Jew, Israeli or not, should be subject to the obligation to fight and defend the Jewish homeland, regardless of nationality or the political persuasion of the individual Jew. That in my view should be the real membership card of the Jewish people. I don’t think it fair or moral that we do the heavy lifting and make the ultimate sacrificing so others can take advantage of our hard work and sacrifices when things get tough for them in other countries.

  32. @ Laura:
    Well said Laura. What if you or I had been born into one of these families? It could be us. One of my nieces has a brother in law living in Israel who is Ultra Orthodox. We just have to deal it. Pitting Jew against Jew is not the answer.

  33. The Haredi Rationale:

    The term Kharedim (ultra-orthodox Jews) arose in the 1700s, corresponding to the “Age of Enlightenment” among the european christians. Many european Jews gave up the belief and practice of Judaism at that time, hoping the christians would finally allow them to assimilate without actually converting to christianity.

    The Kharedim consisted of two main groups. The Mitnagdim were centered in Lithuania. They considered life to be gloomy, and that we Jews were suffering eternal punishment here on earth until the messiah came. In contrast, the Khassidim thought you should make the best of a miserable situation, and be as happy as possible under the circumstances.

    Meanwhile, some of the atheistic, “enlightened Jews” became impatient with their slow acceptance by the Jew-hating european christians, and decided to move to Israel to escape the christians and live in their own independent state.

    Since the Torah-true Kharedim automatically opposed any idea proposed by the atheists, they dug in their heels, and proclaimed (on shaky and controversial) Talmudic grounds, that it was absolutely forbidden for Jews to emigrate to Israel until they were all miraculously led there by G-d, no matter how long that might take. (The christians call this view pre-millenialism; i.e., that the messiah will not come until the suffering on earth becomes unbearable).

    So as far as the Kharedim living in Israel are concerned, they are not Jews living in a free and independent Jewish State. Rather, they are living in “internal exile” within Israel, while their brethren in America and europe are living in “external exile”. Accordingly, they do not recognize the government of Israel as entirely legitimate, and are ambivalent to negative about serving in the Israeli military. Rather, they feel it is their role to study Torah and pray as much as possible, in order to hasten the arrival of the messiah, while having as many children as possible, working as little as possible, and receiving as much welfare as possible. They consider the welfare payments to be their “salary”, which they earned by bringing more Jewish souls into the world, and by their interceding with G-d to protect the atheists and the atheistic military, and not to punish them for their atheism.

  34. This commenter annoyed me:

    I see here lots of comments about weird culture and stuff..so i’ll give some important demografic information about the population in Israel, the part in our population who dressed like the people in the article **is 8% of the population, and the extremly religious part [that you see in the article] is only 1-2% of the population**… so dont judge all of the Jewish people and the Israeli people like those guys. [and by the way..those guys also not bad or something..their culture only looks much more visually different (= ]
    cebook

    Why do Jews feel the need to explain and take a defensive posture regarding their people and then proceed to distance themselves from Haredim? We should stop caring about what others think of us.

    We can criticize Hasidics amongst ourselves, but not to others.

  35. I was 39 years of age shortly after my wife and I sailed into Haifa harbor in early 1973 (from an Italian passenger+auto ferry). When the shooting started again on 6 Oct 1973 the authorities let us volunteer to deliver telegrams around Jerusalem, driving our own Volkswagen with headlights painted over like all the other vehicles. Otherwise, I would have been content to serve. I suppose my experiences in a heavy artillery unit in the US Army during 1952-1956 (155mm guns) might have been useful for Zahal. An Israeli friend of ours who lived in Jerusalem served as an officer in a Zahal artillery unit that worked over the Syrian Army on the Golan Heights. By the way, that was said to have been one of the biggest tank battles ever fought in the Middle East, although probably smaller in scope than all the titanic-size tank battles between the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in the Great Patriotic War. (The Russian Jews we met at the Hebrew University called it that, rather than “World War II”).

    Yamit, I suppose you are right. Nothing wrong with simultaneously studying Tora and being instantly ready to bump off your share of enemy Arabs. Problem is, a lot of these black-hats don’t have any sense of proportion, and seem to have gotten the false idea that armed defense of the Jewish state is some sort of secularist violation of the religious codes under which they have been raised, generation after generation, since the 17th century in Galitzia or some other place in the Jewish Pale of Settlement. The time for those folks to adapt is long overdue, lest the rest of the Jewish nation loses patience with them.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  36. ArnoldHarris Said:

    There is a time to pray and a time to put away the Tora scrolls and pick up a gun.

    They are not mutually exclusive. Jews are supposed to be able to multitask.


    “Oh L-rd, what shall I say, after Israel hath turned their backs before their enemies… and what wilt Thou do for Thy great Name?” (Joshua 7)

    These “religious” Jews, rather the Orthodox practitioners of Jewish ritual whose sojourn in an Exile two millennia old has corrupted and perverted the most basic of real Jewish values. Bearded and piously payotic; or cleanshaven and woolly skullcapped, they join with all the others in the ecumenical worship of the Golden Calf of our times: The Golden Exile of thought,deed and place.

    Shall your brothers go to war while you stay here?

    The Torah makes clear that serving to protect and defend the people of Israel is equated with loyalty to G-d. For example, when the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half the tribe of Menashe wanted to settle east of the Jordan River, Moses rebukes them because he thinks they are trying to avoid military service: “Moses answered the descendants of Gad and Reuven saying: shall your brothers go to war while you remain here?” (Numbers 32:6)

    He goes on to equate the possible avoidance of military service with turning against G-d. He accuses them of being no better than the spies who forced the people to wander for 40 years in the desert:

    “Now behold you have risen up in the place of your fathers, a brood of transgressors, to bring even more of God’s wrath upon Israel. If you turn away from Him, He will leave us in the wilderness and you will have destroyed this whole people.” (Numbers 32: 15)

    Moses is not satisfied until he extracts a promise from the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half of Menashe that they will serve in war against Israel’s enemies.

    Unfortunately, these “Jews” (spit) have forgotten the lesson that failing to defend our nation is equal to the sin of the spies.

  37. I want to know: Did David Hamelech have 25,000 people at his weddings?

    The immodest opulence is disgraceful.

    The days of these rebbe handmedown dynasties should have been over already. “I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas Galitzia any more.”

  38. I will have significantly more interest in looking at pictures of their holy weddings when all 25,000 of them show up wearing Zahal uniform colors, carrying weapons, and learning how to shoot and kill in defense of the Jewish nation that haShem created, and the Jewish state that their Polish-Jewish forefathers supposedly were dreaming would come back into existence — which alone could remove them from the ghettos of Europe, Asia and Africa and restore their national existence and their national pride and dignity.

    Unless and until that happens, I will consider them nothing but a pack of useless and helpless dead-weights who are worthy of no Jewish state whatsoever. There is a time to pray and a time to put away the Tora scrolls and pick up a gun.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI