This statement comes to me from an Indian correspondent of mine who warns against a Palestinian state
There is a parallel here with the PAKISTAN RESOLUTON of 23 March, 1940, passed at LAHORE (then in India, now in Pakistan).
The Muslim delegates declared themselves as the SECOND NATION within India that rejected Secularism and rejected the idea of living in a State with Hindu majority. The “bas*ards” have never any objection, though, in forcing the NON MUSLIMS to live in a Muslim majority State!
Hindu leaders did not KILL the “enemies” then and there. The result?
That Resolution lay unchallenged and its poisonous tree only grew and grew till in the end the MUSLIMS had their way when Britain agreed to PARTITION spineless secular India and give the Muslims their ISLAMIC Pakistan.
Then what happened in Pakistan?
Despite the promises of TOLERANCE towards the Non Muslims, immediately the MASSACRES started across Pakistan and the Non Muslims fled in all directions to save their lives. About TWO MILLION were KILLED and over 15 million were forced out of their homes. Thousands of girls and women were raped. It was truly the ISLAMIC practise of breaking their solemn pledges. Only a fool will trust even one word spoken by the followers of MOHAMMED of MECCA.
Israel must not sleep but immediately and categorically WARN the UNO that if they agree to a separate Palestinian State then Israel will invade that POISONOUS state and put an end to it, i.e., NIP THE ISLAMIC EVIL IN THE BUD. Please quote the example of “birth of Islamic Pakistan” that EXTERMINATED the non Muslims within weeks.
The Hindus in Pakistan have yet to see the UNO to ensure their safety in that ISLAMIC republic.
The new Palestinian State will mean the beginning of the end of ISRAEL.
Yes: the moment the formal request is made — and before the actual vote is taken.
Thanks, 82, for the history lesson.
It’s true that during the Exodus, Moses took the Children of Israel by a route that avoided the “way of the Philistines.” But this was because the people were a weak, slave people, accustomed to having things done for them, with no sense of national unity and no military experience. Clearly, at this point they would have HARDLY been a match for the iron-age, Philistine pentapolis.
But that doesn’t mean Gaza was not part of Israel’s patrimony. You need to augment your research, Catarin.
“Sad”?
What do you find ‘sad’ about such a prospect, Abie?
@ Catarin:
Gaza’s Rich Jewish History
By Victor Sharpe
The four thousand year old association of Jewish life in Gaza is little remembered in today’s world. Of course people know of the biblical story of Samson being blinded by the now extinct Philistines and how he brought down the temple to their gods in Gaza. But very few have any idea of the rich Jewish history in the following millennia.
In the Second millennium BC, Gaza served as an administrative city and residence of the Egyptian governor of Canaan. The bible tells us that the Jewish patriarch, Isaac, dug wells in Gerar, an ancient site between Beer Sheba and Gaza, and in the 13th century BC the Philistines or Caphorites (Cretans) annihilated the Avite inhabitants of Gaza and made the city the largest of their five centers. After the Israelite Exodus from Egypt and entry into the Promised Land, the tribe of Judah was given Gaza as a possession but did not include it fully in their territory. The bible reports in Joshua 15.47 and Judges 1:18 how the city of Gaza, and those of Ekron, Ashkelon, Ashdod and Gat became a possession of Israel but how some of them were among those places ‘lying in the remaining country,’ i.e., not fully possessed by the Israelites.
Down the centuries, Gaza was captured by Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, followed by Persians and later still by Alexander the Great who incorporated it into his growing empire in the 5th century BC. The strategic territory, lying as it does at the crossroads of two continents, Africa and Asia, has repeatedly fallen since earliest times to invading armies.
In 167 BC, Judah Maccabee led his Jewish fighters to victory over the Syrian-Greek pagan king, Antiochus Epiphanies. Jerusalem was liberated and the defiled Temple cleansed. The miracle of this event is now celebrated by Jews during the festival of Hanukah. But it was the Hasmonean king, Yochanan, who liberated Gaza in 145 BC. He was the brother of Judah the Maccabee and it was their other brother, Simon, who sent Jews to repopulate Gaza and its environs.
In the Book of Maccabees: 1:15, it says:
“Not a strange land have we conquered, and not over the possessions of strangers have we ruled, but of the inheritance of our Fathers that was in the hands of the enemy and conquered by them unlawfully. And as for us, when we had the chance, we returned to ourselves the inheritance of our Fathers.”
The Roman general, Pompey, conquered Judea in the First century BC and made Gaza a free “polis” but in 61 AD the Roman Governor, Gavinius, evicted the Jews. In the subsequent war against Roman occupation of Judea, between 67 and 70 AD, Jewish forces again liberated the town and its environs before suffering defeat at the hands of Rome’s legions.
Continuing Roman excesses against the Jews led to the Second Jewish Revolt under the command of the charismatic Bar Kochba, known in Aramaic as Son of a Star. The Emperor Hadrian’s legions destroyed the Jewish state in 135 AD, decimating the Jewish population in an enormous slaughter, and sending thousands into slavery and exile from the Roman slave markets of Gaza.
Under the subsequent harsh Byzantine rule, Gaza’s restored Jewish community nevertheless managed to flourish and during the 4th century Gaza served as the primary port of commerce for the Jews of the Holy Land.
It is interesting to note that in 1967, archaeologists discovered the beautiful mosaic floor of a 6th century synagogue situated on the Gaza seashore, attesting to the size and prominence of the Jewish community of the time.
The great medieval kabbalist Rabbi Avraham Azoulai lived in Gaza where he authored his famed work, Hesed L’Avraham, along with a commentary on the Torah (the first five books of the bible). The Jewish inhabitants made Gaza a great center of study and towns and villages from Rafah to Yavne sprung up as centers of Talmudic learning.
Many Jews fled to Gaza at the end of the 15th century where they joined the Jewish community by working in various trades after escaping from the ravages of the Catholic Inquisition.
During the 17th century, Gaza was again home to a thriving Jewish community, which boasted its share of prominent rabbis, including Rabbi Israel Najara, author of Kah Ribbon Olam, the popular hymn sung in Jewish homes around the world every Sabbath. He served as Gaza’s Chief Rabbi until his death in 1625. This century also saw the rise in Gaza of Shabbetai Zvi’s pseudo messianic movement.
The great scholar, Rabbi Yaakov Emden, ruled centuries ago that Gaza is an intrinsic part of the Jewish people’s national heritage. “Gaza and its environs are absolutely considered part of the Land of Israel,” he wrote in his work, Mor U’ketziyah, adding, “there is no doubt that it is a mitzvah (commandment and blessing) to live there, as in any other part of the Land of Israel.”
Over the millennia Jews have been expelled from Gaza by many different conquerors but have always managed to return. The Crusaders killed many Gazan Jews, leaving few survivors. Ottoman Turks ruled a vast empire from 1517 to 1917, including the geographical backwater known as Palestine. They also frequently expelled the Jewish residents but then allowed them to return. This pattern has continued for centuries.
Napoleon, marching through Gaza from Egypt in 1799 failed to restrain many of his French soldiers who were joined by local Arabs in abusing the Jewish residents. As a result of Arab persecution, the ancient Jewish presence in Gaza and the near by villages died out in the first years of the 19th century only to return yet again in the 1870s.
In August 1929, when Arab rioters threatened to slaughter Gaza’s Jews — as they had in Hebron — the British army under the Palestine Mandate forced the community to evacuate their homes. In October 1946, on the night following Yom Kippur, the Gaza Jewish community of Kfar Darom was established on land corresponding to the biblical Jewish village of Darom. It lasted just a year and a half until the outbreak of Israel’s War of Independence in 1948, when Egypt overran the Gaza Strip and occupied it.
In June 1967, in a war of self-defense, Israel liberated Gaza from Egyptian occupation, making it possible once again for Jews to reside there.
Hi 82. Gaza has never been a part of Israel. During Judaisms early days it was the home of the Philistines.
@ abie:
abie Said:
Have you ever been to Gaza? Not large but beautiful beaches Med breezes, Quaint fishing villages, date palm groves all along the coast. and they have natural gas fields we found and stupidly gave it to Arafat (PM Barak). Arafat sold the license for exploration and marketing to British Gas for 50 million dollars. There is probably commercial oil as well and Gaza is also part of the Biblical promised land. 80 % of the population are refugees and their offspring. Get rid of the Arabs and Gaza becomes prime real estate.
@ Shy Guy:
No argument there, unfortunately the scum have managed to maintain their international cause celebre status regardless of what provocation they manage to use to incite a response, simply due to their being “occupied” by Israel. Thus Israel has had its hands tied in responding, as these are, in the eyes of the world, downtrodden second-class citizens of Israel.
Let them have their independence, let them demonstrate to the world that they are incapable of living responsibly and peacefully with their neighbours. Yes, it will be painful, but more people have died over the past 20 years than would have died if Gaza had been reduced to rubble at the outset. Gaza is too much trouble to maintain as a separate entity, allow them to set up a State – when it attacks Israel (none of this unaligned non-State party shit) move in and destroy Gaza.
As part of the ceasefire negotiations move to remove Gaza as an enclave, it is not viable let everyone move to the West Bank. That gets rid of Gaza and makes them pay dearly for their arrogance and utter stupidity. Let Hamas and the PA play together in the one enclave and see which is more equal.
For patriotic Hindus, the giving up of a huge chunk of India to Islam-the new country became Pakistan, is a constant source of pain. Surrendering land to Islam results in tremendous suffering, horrific atrocities and barbaric genocide of hated non-Muslims. Jihad is daily. The whole world should be informed of the results of India’s surrender to Islam. It is a WARNING. NEVER surrender land to Muslims.
World leaders, presidents, politicians and media who seek a Muslim terror state implant in tiny, vulnerable Israel are seeking a Second Holocaust of Jews. G-D will judge them very harshly.
Would like to add further that the moment the PA makes a formal approach to the UNGA to recognize them as a country, that is the time the Oslo Accords violations would be the final straw and THAT is the time for the IDF to go IMMEDIATELY into all the PA territory or surround it and sit there. The PA will have made the Oslo Accords null and void and the Norwegians, the Swedes and the Danes could go fly a kite.
Abie wrote
Abie, would you prefer Tzipi Livni or Ehud Barak? Or is it Amoz Oz and David Grossman put together that you accept. Please put-on your thinking cap.
Bibi will retaliate against Hamas but he has to also ensure that the Egyptians will be made aware of any consequences if Egypt starts to get trigger happy. Almost the whole world knows that the Muslim world is waiting for any excuse to attack Israel and the Jewish people. THAT is part of their mental illness. It is written in the Koran. The story about India is no different. At that time it was Gandhi who stupidly claamed that ‘Moslems are my brothers’. The Hindu people, till today, are still shocked by that statement.
If there were a natural disaster, I think it would be up to the Jews to take care of the Arab Palestinians. I don’t think they have a desalinization plant. Why not? Without one Israel will be overrun with Muslims dependent on all its resources. Maybe some of this water could be pumped into the Dead Sea.
This would also be jobs for Muslims and maybe a source of pride they would take pains to protect.
@ rongrand:
We don’t want Gaza. Keeping Gaza is not worth another IDF life. Gaza is not worth another Shekel.
If bibi is retained as the leader of Israel, the Pals are assured of a state. That is the very sad fact of mid east life.
yamit82 says:
August 21, 2011 at 9:42 am
Yamit, good point.
The reason there won’t be a Palestinian state. As a state any attack against Israel would be very foolish and Israel would have every right to clean house, including reclaiming Gaza.
aaron1975 Said:
The logic here is entirely wrong. We should treat them here and now (and years ago) as much worse than sovereign states would be treated. The Palis should have lost their oxygen rights decades ago.
Let them declare a State, then treat the State the same way Israel would treat Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt if rockets are fired from their territory. Let them play with the big boys, let them learn that warfare is NOT what they have been involved in to date (they have been in an insurgency – not war). They look like they’ll seriously deplete their store of Grads right at the moment (prior to declaring Statehood) and that is about all the offensive weaponry they have access to. Declare war on them immediately after they declare Statehood on the basis of the ongoing conflict (don’t allow them to simply state that they’ve had enough and would like to stop now). Maintain the blockade on the Ports, but when in a war shipping bound for an opponents ports is fair game.
Shell the area between Khan Yunis and Rafah and occupy it, isolating Rafah. Give the UN control of a part of the open farmland (after it has been cleared) and advise them that Rafah is going to be shelled into oblivion in x days. Let them ‘resettle’ the newly displaced, check each person leaving the City for gunpowder/explosive residue (and gun oil). Detain all males >16 regardless, then once all “non-combatants” have had the opportunity to leave, make like the second Battle of Falujah (more feints to draw the fighters out prior to the assault and casualties amongst the attacking force will be lower). Repeat with Khan Yunis, Gaza, etc. Let them have a taste of the consequences of waging war incessantly and see if the voters are willing to risk it repeatedly (those who want to fight will surely start to run out sooner or later).
@ rongrand:
rongrand Said:
Why would they have to work towards peace? They would not be the bon ton celebs of supporters of the downtrodden, they would lose most of the donor money now given and if Israel withdraws her aid to them they would disintegrate in short order. As a recognized state every attack against Israel would be the aggression of a state and Israel could hardly be condemned if we defended ourselves from an aggressive militant recognized nation. We would in any case be condemned but our position would be on firmer ground than fighting terrorists that the world considers today freedom fighters.
@ BlandOatmeal:
very well put, babe,
Israel needs to continue to expand every way possible and not be influenced other governments.
Having said that, I am not sure the Arab terrorist world wants a Palestinian state. It would not serve their purpose.
A Palestinian state would have to work towards peace, not exactly what the Arab world wants.
Past time for playing politics. Right or wrong, Israel gets the blame for everything, so let’s do the crime anyway. Blast these bastards back to the past.
Sometimes it’s nice to hear it from somebody else.
We need an Indian to tell us what we already know?
@ BlandOatmeal:
BlandOatmeal Said:
That leaves Israel out of your Reconquista 🙂 But go ahead we’ll watch. That’s by the way the exact scenario for Gog u Magog
It’s time for the Moslem occupying powers to return the Middle East lands to the Christians — along with Serbian Kossovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina. The infidels entities must be evicted from the World of Christ.