I support Bennett’s Plan instead of the TSS or the OSS a la Glick and Wise or Sherman’s Plan (compensated emigration). But Bennett should not be so quick to give citizenship to Arabs living in Area C. Instead he should adopt the policy of compensated emigration. We can always annex A and B in the decades following. Ted Belman
The recent failure of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians let us see first-hand how the various politicians react to this failure.
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni blamed the Right (and was then echoed by US Secretary of State John Kerry in this finger pointing, with the State Department even quoting her). Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu was cautious and conservative, keeping the door open to renewed negotiations. Israel’s far Right simply celebrated the failure.
However, Bennett’s reaction was the most fascinating: the leader of Bayit Yehudi saw this failure as a window of opportunity to push forward his alternative solution to the conflict. Instead of just commenting on what just happened, he decided to lead.
“There is no vacuum,” he said.
It is specifically when the two-state solution is stalled that the Right needs to push its agenda forward.
This reaction showed great initiative and leadership. It gave hope that the Right in Israel might have finally found someone who will actually lead in implementing its agenda.
The Right needs a leader
The Right has been in a real conundrum.
It keeps winning in elections, and keeps seeing leftist policies being applied by its own leaders. This means that while the population in Israel is right-wing, it keeps seeing left-wing policies in practice. This is a problem not just to right-wing people, but to everyone who believes in democracy.
First, then prime minister Menachem Begin, who was seen as a hawk, signed a peace treaty with Egypt and even became the first to recognize the right to autonomy of the Palestinians (while opposing the establishment of a Palestinian state).
Then, his successor, Yitzhak Shamir, who was seen as even more hawkish than Begin, went to the Madrid conference where the foundations of Oslo were established.
Then, Netanyahu was elected to a first term, as an alternative to the Oslo process led by then-prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and then-foreign minister Shimon Peres.
Instead of changing directions, he signed the Wye River Memorandum, furthering the implementation of Oslo.
In his race to become prime minister, Ariel Sharon ran on a clear platform opposing Labor leader Amram Mitzna’s idea of withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Yet, he did just that: he withdrew from the Gaza Strip, while kicking out almost 10,000 Jews from their homes in the process, and destroying the beautiful Gush Katif settlements.
Netanyahu was then reelected as prime minister, once again as an alternative to the left-wing policies favored by former Likud members such as Sharon, former prime minister Ehud Olmert, and Livni. However, one of his first actions was to embrace the two-state solution in his famous Bar-Ilan speech. He then moved on to freeze settlement building in Judea and Samaria and release terrorists from Israeli prisons.
Every time a leader is elected to represent the Right, he ends up implementing the Left’s agenda. He might move toward that path at a slower pace, stalling for time.
However, he moves down the same path.
The obvious question is why? What causes leaders who come from strong nationalistic and right-wing views to implement left-wing policies? While some people think that the problem is one of resolve, this argument is unconvincing.
How can one claim that Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun Zva’i Leumi, or Yitzhak Shamir, the leader of the Stern Group, have a problem of resolve? They risked their lives on numerous occasions for the State of Israel. Even Netanyahu does not have a problem of resolve.
His family’s tradition of ardent Zionism and his own personal history of military heroism make it hard to believe this is the source of the problem.
The problem is not a lack of resolve, but a lack of alternatives. As long as these leaders fail to promote any alternative, they will be forced to move down the path of the twostate solution. There is no such thing as freezing the status quo in international relations.
International relations are dynamic and they will always move in a certain direction. A leader cannot just ask to stop the movement. He has to define which direction he wants this movement to go in.
Bennett’s alternative plan
Before the previous elections, Bennett came up with a plan to manage the conflict with the Palestinians.
The plan is pretty straightforward: Annex Area C to Israel while giving autonomy to Palestinians in Areas A and B. Area C has a large majority of Jews with only 50,000 Arabs who can be offered Israeli citizenship while Areas A and B are solely Arab with no Jews living there.
This plan is far from perfect. Actually, Bennett is the first to agree that it is an imperfect plan. It is unlikely to bring to peace.
It might lead to international condemnation.
However, it also protects the security of Israelis living in the Jewish state and lets Israel keep control over its historical homeland in Judea and Samaria.
Whether one likes the plan or not, there is something incredibly refreshing with Bennett’s ability to innovate and to try to come up with an alternative solution. For years, anyone who brought up alternative solutions was seen as an extremist – either from the Right or from the Left. Bennett, a mainstream politician ruling a relatively large party, was not afraid to come out and propose something new. The innovation that led him to great success in hi-tech before entering politics is allowing him to think outside the box in international relations.
While previous leaders on the Right kept arguing why the Left’s plans were dangerous, Bennett argues why his plan is better.
Not perfect – but better. Therefore, while previous right-wing leaders were forced to apply left-wing policies when elected, Bennett will be able to apply his own policies, since he does have an alternative.
Bennett leads, Peace Now follows
The effects of Bennett’s great leadership can already be seen.
For decades, the way things worked in Israeli politics was quite straightforward: The Left would define the agenda and the Right would respond to it. Organizations such as Peace Now would decide what the agenda is and then right-wing organizations, such as the Council of Jewish Communities in Judea and Samaria, would respond.
The latest failure in the negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians led us to something completely different: Bennett was the one defining the agenda and Peace Now was the one responding.
On April 4, after the negotiations went “poof,” Bennett wrote a post on his Facebook page calling for his alternative plan to receive serious consideration. He then also wrote a letter to Netanyahu with the same message.
On April 10, Peace Now responded on its own Facebook page, sharing a video it prepared in response to Bennett’s plan.
Bennett was the one to set the agenda.
Peace Now was only left with the option to respond.
A democratic prerogative
The nationalist camp has the right to have leaders who will not only talk “rightwing” in election campaigns, but who will also apply right-wing policies after the elections are over. This is the prerogative of all citizens in democratic countries.
Bennett’s refreshing dose of innovation, initiative and fearless leadership make him the perfect candidate to be that leader. He has the personality and the ability to lead the way and to finally help Israel change direction from its numerous failed attempts at implementing the two-state solution.
Every failure of right-wing leaders to do so has cost Israelis in the blood of soldiers and of terrorist victims as these “peace plans” brought more war and terrorism than peace.
Naftali Bennett might just be the person we need to break this cycle.
The writer is an attorney who graduated from McGill University Law School and Hebrew University’s honors graduate program in public policy.
@ yamit82:
Hey Yamit,
thx for the thorough reply!!
I don’t know if he spends more time in Canada and the US than in Israel, but I highly doubt it. He has his annual dinner in NY, and this time he came to Toronto as well.
I’m coming to Israel next summer (2015) and if Feiglin is not a cabinet minister in a new Likud government, I’ll buy you dinner!!!!!! Restaurant of your choice!
And if he is a cabinet minister…….. I’ll also buy you dinner, restaurant of your choice !!! 🙂
As much as you think he’s a loser, I think he could be a winner!!! I’m hoping, and I’m expecting results.
Hope I’m not disappointed.
drjb Said:
I don’t support either. I consider Feiglin a loser and a waste of time. You didn’t respond to why he spends more time in Canada and the US than in Israel and even if I am exaggerating the question still begs a straight answer. You guys don’t vote.
Even if Feiglin was to succeed in his Fantasy of capturing the Likud from the inside he would have a Pyrrhic victory as most of the rank and file would desert the party and most supporters till now of Feiglin the man, hardly ever vote for Likud in general elections but for parties to the right of the Likud. This fact is known to every Likud loyalist and detracts from Feiglins influence. He pulled a trick on them and is gaming the system. Even the last elections where he managed to get a safe spot (just) was due to the deal he made with Yossi Katz where he pledged his supppport for Katz and Katz for him. Katz controls some 7000 votes from Israel Aircraft Corp. Without the deal doubtful Feiglin would have made a safe spot this time around as well.
Leadership is not just having ideas but the ability to draw many others to accept them as their own. In this Feiglin has failed big time. Feiglin has been in our public arena over 16-17 years. If he hasn’t impacted on our body politic in any real and tangible way to date then why do you and others expect a different result in the future?
Being a “nice guy” “Straight shooter”etc. does not qualify anyone for a high public position.
I disagree Bayit Yehudi has authored several landmark pieces of legislation. Are responsible for many more building approvals in Y&S. Blocked another major Building freeze BB would have preferred. Seemed wise enough to not shake up the coalition at the bequest of Feiglin supporters over the negotiations with the Palis, saying from the beginning that they were sure they would lead nowhere. Part of being in a political coalition is abiding by the will of the majority or quitting and in many cases they did not oppose due to agreements signed as a coalition stipulation..
Feiglin as a back bencher can oppose with his single vote not bearing on any decision or calculation by BB and the coalition… If he really wanted to make a personal statement he could have resigned his position as deputy speaker costing him the title and a few thousand extra shekels in salary. He didn’t do that!!! So he owes BB for the appointment and on several occasions has praised BB and denounced Bennett. I wonder if there is a connection??? 🙂
How much influence Bennett has on policy depends on whose narrative and spin you want to accept. Did Bennett’s threats to leave the coalition influence BB or not??? I don’t know, do you? Certainly Likud MK’s thought it did when reading their comments over Bennett’s threats.
I would not say they are useless and having at least Half of the Likud government and Knesset representatives openly oppose the leadership on policy is no little matter and BB is to a point shackled and is why he advocated a referendum to overcome their open opposition without a party split like what happened with Sharon. Danon is leading the movement to block BB’s power by returning political power to the Likud Central Committee and the party institutions that BB in previous terms had eviscerated.
Who gets more press? I admit I am not a big consumer of TV here but I can’t recall the last time I saw Feiglin on TV but have seen Danon both on Local and foreign news casts and if you want to compare; go to Arutz 7 and type in Feiglin and Dannon separately and see who is quoted more. Hint: it’s not Feiglin. I think you have bought into the Feiglin spin meisters who paint him with attributes and facts not in evidence if one checks them out specifically.
If Feiglin is alone he has only himself to blame
Individual responsibility is collective. Not enough to vote against government policy when he is a member of the majority party and coalition making those decisions. He could quit the Likud if the principle is more important than personal gain. Voting??? ( Who cares and who keeps score ) after the fact? He is still part and parcel of the political establishment making and instituting negative policies he opposes.
Re: The Temple Mt. Curious that he hasn’t advocated or influenced his many loyal supporters to follow his lead…. I have long advocated sending hundreds and thousand of loyal supporters up to the mount forcing the issue… Such an act would have doomed any negotiations brought down potentially the government and changed the current status quo where Jewish rights are returned to the Jewish people. So Feiglin goes up and comes down and gets arrested but since as a MK has immunity he risks nothing. Where is the Leadership?? Right Idea but hollow application. His positions are shared all or in part by many Israelis and are not original with Feiglin.
I agree with the concept of faith based Jewish Leadership but not with Feiglin as the leader. The whole idea breaks down when one accepts the idea and rejects Feiglin as the leader. Would manhigut still support the concept without Feiglin? Can the idea stand alone devoid of the cult of personality Feiglin has built around his own person? A true advocate of faith based leadership would put personal ambitions aside and seek anyone who could accomplish the mission successfully in our time and in this place.
I disagree that it’s not about Feiglin and ego, otherwise he would have changed and modified his course and actions to fit the desired end results.
@ yamit82:
Hi Yammit,
I don’t often disagree with you but I must say that I completely do in as much as Feiglin is concerned.
You admitted that you agree with Feiglin’s positions more than you do with Bennett’s. So do I.
While Bennett has accomplished much, AND I like him a lot, he hasn’t accomplished anything either. He has had zero influence on policy!! Livni and Lapid have had a lot more!!
Danon, Hotovely, Levin, etc have been useless within Likud. Feiglin is interviewed more than most MKs, his opinions and views are constantly sought after, he’s viewed by many as having the intellectual capacity, and the moral standing, to be a real threat to the leadership. He appeals to the Right and to the Left (on social issues). He doesn’t bend or compromises on anything. He doesn’t pander.
Temple Mount??? Feiglin’s there.
Jerusalem???? Feiglin’s there.
Judea/Samaria building??? Feiglin.
Against Oslo??? Feiglin.
AND he actually votes what he preaches as opposed to the other nationalists, all of them big talkers, but when it comes to putting their votes (and their asses) where their mouth is, they’re nowhere to be seen. And the cowards still have the chutzpah to not support him, when he’s fighting the battles all on his own. And to criticize him!!! chutzpah!!!
While I concur with you that he could have been more effective outside of the Likud, he is aiming for the leadership of a national party, not a sectarian party like Bayt Yehudi. The final word is yet to be written on this decision. If by next general election Feiglin is not at least a cabinet minister, I will agree with you that he has made a tactical error by joining Likud.
As far as ego goes, my sense talking to him is that his ego is not his driver. He comes across as being quite humble, a straight shooter.
My only concern about Feiglin is why hasn’t he been able to garner more support from the Right, from the Likud, Bayt, the national religious, the Caroline Glicks and Martin Shermans, when he represents most of the views that they espouse. I asked him, and he said that they’re slowly moving to his camp, case in point, Temple Mount, where he, and he alone, has made it a national issue, fighting Bibi and everyone else on it, and so far making inroads that may lead to dramatic changes.
I like Bennett, but I like Feiglin better. I pray they can work together in the future.
@ honeybee:
He’s a tough SOB!!! He would be great as a PM!!!
@ bernard ross:
The Arabs… based on their mentality always expected the Jews to behave towards them as they to the Jews. They wouldn’t ever love us but they would have accepted such behavior on our part as normative and accepted defeat. By showing them that we were not like them and after we allowed them to believe that they hadn’t really lost their wars against us. We convinced them that they could eventually defeat us in the future and they lost any fear and respect for us which keeps fueling their hopes of eventual victory over us…
To defeat the Arab we must be as brutal as they are as uncompromising as they are and convince them that they cannot ever defeat us… This is a prerequisite for any hope of a civil relationship between we and them….
When I was on the Kibbutz an Iraqi Jew told me the Arabs were like a donkey and would behave themselves only if you held a big stick over their heads and used it liberally when necessary.
Read this:
THE CHALLENGE OF JERUSALEM
bernard ross Said:
YES!! And those too!!!
Still like napalm and Merkava Tanks backed up by military D-9’s. Scorched earth policy.
We will be compassionate though, we will leave them a door to escape eastward over the border.
yamit82 Said:
the alternative is, the first time: kill the entire family, deport the entire clan, nationalize the clan holdings, destroy the entire village. Its called disproportionate, non restrained, collective punishment which is appropriate when a collective continues to support jew killing through voting, training, educating their children,libels, incitement, etc. I think once will be enough.
yamit82 Said:
the red herrings they throw at the Jews feet to cause us to stumble. they never throw these canards at the feet of the arabs. That is not a coincidence. the arabs would ignore them but the diaspora brainwashed Jews seek the approval of their torturers and swindlers as an ingrained habit. Jews must be shown who the eurochristians at the root and the leaf of this war are. the fact that they continue today as before is the evidence of their agenda and not the diplomatic political doublespeak they spout.
Once we see their current deeds and ignore their words everything becomes clear!yamit82 Said:
The JEW turned on his head!
It is only natural that the 2000 year abuse and torture of the Jews by the eurochristians, their secular successors, their biblical muslim offshoots have affected the Jews with a residual form of collective cultural Stockholm Syndrome which causes them to ape and adore their masters; a form of colllective PTSD which the despicable consensus cabal knowingly exploits as a master does his slave. The truth will set the Jews free.
yamit82 Said:
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Standing up to aggression having a backbone and the stones to do what is correct is the ” light” the “sine qua non” of being Jewish, Chico .
CuriousAmerican Said:
Sheman’s focus is on the false concundrum of Jewish and demoocratic whereas mine is fouced on Jewish existential interests, rights and the refusal to accept double standards as a priority. The interests and rights of the arabs are way down my list and would only be considered by me when their nations and institutions restore Justice first in THEIR injustices to the Jews.
First, the arab nations must accept the pals as emigrants as they expelled their Jews who were not even part of the conflict. Second, they must accept the costs and damages of their initiation and maintenance of the conflict; there is no equality of responsibility here and such assertions are unacceptable to me.
Third,as every square inch of the former mandate territory controlled by arabs today is JEW FREE, with no rights to Jews I see no reason to even think about the rights of arabs. It is irrelevant, a consideration that you deligitimizers throw at the feet of the Jews hoping they stumble over the canard that is never mnentioned to the arabs.
Fourth, It is adding insult to injury to ask Jews to give consideration to the rights and suffering of a a people that have NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, shown the same to Jews. Why do you and your ilk demand that the Jews show the arabs what they have never received. It is a matter of principle that those who have always been despicable must first change before reciving consideration.
Fifth, even in a democracy, there are jails for criminals and institutions for the mentally ill which restrain and supervise the rights of those who are a danger to the rest of society. FACTS DEMONSTRATE that as a collective culture the arabs are an existential danger to the Jews and must continue to be superviesed and restrained until THEY FIRST DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER A DANGER. the onus is upon them to demonstrate new facts and not on the Jews to release their supervision especially when their culture still embodies all the aspects to train their children to swindle, libel, torture and slaughter Jews.
Jews like sherman are distracted and confounded by the ranting din of the eurochristians and their proxies and thus they appear to always prioritize arab interests in lieu of jewish interests for the consumption and hopeful approval of the consensus cabal.
The best measurement of a good solution is that the arab interests are not considered or are a n afterthought, or a bonus for them. As a matter of principle arab interests should be ignored and only jewish interests and demands submitted in any negotiations. I have never heard of arabs considering jewish interests: they make their demands and the consensus cabal considers this sufficient and then turn to the fool Jews demanding concessions on the basis that the losers find the winners demands unacceptable.
A recalcitrant criminal and an unhealed mental patient are not let loose because their rights are limited and they are restrained. This is the proper analogy and any analogy to normal people is absurd when compared with their factual behavior.
Time to repudiate the BS of the “world”!
the phoenix Said:
I am from Israel screw you!!!!!!!!!!
drjb Said:
So he talks nicely and looks pretty. Does he have a backbone. I prefer rough, tough, inarticulate and determined.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yes I am! the priority is the destruction of the 2000 year eurochristian enemy agenda which currently employs BDS, conveniently legitimizes UN swindling and libleing of the Jews,and funds arab Jew killer orgs. the focus is Jewish interests and not eurorchristian “Talmudic” submissions devised to distract Jewish focus from their self interest.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Irrelevant and meant to confound.
It is not our claim, it is the declaration of Hashem and I assume he will unfold that according to His Will and not according to the will of the eurochristians. He accomplishes many seemingly impossible contradictions. Watch and see.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Policies are irrelevant in war and the Jews are at war with esau and Ismael. YOur nations ALWAYS subordinate these considerations in war. why do you think the Jews should be given circus hoops to jump through? apparently you seek to limit Jews options by limiting their thought.
CuriousAmerican Said:
You have never given any supporting evidence for this ludicrous and spurious claim other than the dubious echos of those who facilitate libels. The only thing obstructing its sustainability is the ongoing eurochristian campaigns against the Jews. The present scenario of semi autonomy in various forms is INDEED sustainable. Whether such a similar scenario exists now or does not exist is irrelevant. It is important for the Jews to identify and resolve their self interest and not be distracted by red herrings such as yours and the eurochristians.
CuriousAmerican Said:
another rubbish, irrelvant, desparate and even anti semitic red herring thrown to the Jews to make them stumble.
CuriousAmerican Said:
this is not evidence to support your conclusion of unsustainability. Evidence must be based on fact and not the tortured gymnastics of your mind and the minds of the eurochristian cabal consensus.
The world has had no problem explaining and accepting the absurd, libelous, corrupt, swindling UN and its cartoon orgs e.g. UNHRC. Oddly, the “consensus” of the “world” and especially the eurochristian world and its cultural succesors, always arrays itself against the interests and existence of the Jews.
Suggesting that the Jews should not ignore and should instead follow such evil, malicious, despicable swindlers renders everything you say absurd.
Would we ask the Fogel baby or Shelly Dadon, if they were still alive, to harken to the advice and admonition of their slaughters? Would we ask shoah victims to follow the advice, suggestions, commands, dictates and values of the n@zis? everything which tumbles from the mouths of the eurochristian institutions and politicians is tainted with continuing evil. If it was finished long ago that would be one thing but we see instead that they continue with their despicable habits with BDS, supporting the UN in its libels and swindles, fund the Jew killers.
When Putin b@tch slaps angela and shows the eurochristians the same they inflict on others, it is a time to give out sweets in the tradition of your pets.
Israel must devise solutions based on the interest of
Israel and the Jews and MUST ignore the despicable world whose “consensus” always swindles or slaughters Jews!!!!
@ bernard ross:
The quandary that this narcissist has pertaining to present day Jews is that we are ‘not the same’. Not the same as the Jews from the bible. So…..if we were to be able to return to be ‘the Jews of the Bible’ that would mean there would be NO Catholicism, NO Christianity and NO Islam. Nice thought! 🙂
Moving forward, the last 2000 years have occurred and must be factored into our Jewish soul otherwise we are in denial – so of course we are ‘not the same’ but have been put through the ‘fire of hell’ which has shaped us into the diverse People we are today!
Minister Calls for Death Penalty for Convicted Terrorists
Transportation Minister praises ‘life without parole’ bill as a strong moral principle, says terrorists should be condemned to death.
‘Do They Oppose Releasing Terrorists or Not?’
MK Shaked puzzles over opposition to terrorist release prevention bill by left-wing ministers who claimed to oppose such moves.
CuriousAmerican Said:
A typical eurochristian delegitimizer. after hijacking their bible and land you tell the Jews what their Torah really means and what they cannot claim. Your MO is to confound Jews with their own intellect. giving them irrelevant red herrings such as this in an effort to keep them entangled as if they were discussing Talmudic questions. It is not for you to interpret Jewish concepts and principles and instruct Jews as to what they can or cannot claim.
Here is how I see your MO:
ACHTUNG JEW! You will do what we will instruct you to do!
We will give you the 2 choices which you may choose from and any other choice is VERBOTEN!
You will interpret your Torah as we allow you to interpret it and as we revise it. If not we will continue to libel, swindle, torture and slaughter you as convenenient, directly or indirectly through BDS, subverting UN, funding arab jew killing orgs!
What we allow ourselves to do to you is not allowed for you to do to others! The Jew is restricted to specific behaviors according to our moral code for the Jews but not for us to do to the Jews. We may employ any means to ends but Jews are restricted to be restrained and proportionate or merely to remain as victims. Our morality allows this condition to continue and consider it SUSTAINABLE as it has been sustained and convenient for 2000 years.
Any Jewish solutions or non solutions are deemed unsustainable unless approved by us in consensus with the Jew killers!
ACHTUNG JEW!
HERE ARE YOUR CHOICES!
CuriousAmerican Said:
You may not come up with deviant solutions that we will deem UNSUSTAINABLE without any evidence. You will disregard any evidence to the contrary such as the existing scenario which remains sustainable except for our continued incitement of Ishmael.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Any solution whereby those who caused and maintained the problem pay the compensation is deemed impractical as those parties will simply refuse. However, it is deemed unacceptable for Jews to refuse to pay for resettlement of the arabs in spite of arab nations not paying for Jews.
In fact, the most important part of of who pays compensation is that THE JEWS MUST PAY!
There must be some punishment, even if symbolic , where the Jews pay for their murder of our god.
Punishment of their purse will sufficiently give satisfaction!
CuriousAmerican Said:
I love it when our enemies attempt to use our Jewish morality and ethics against us.
A world turned on it’s head.
PA Official: ‘How Will Israel Negotiate for Kidnapped Soldiers?’
PA official upset over ministers’ approval of bill to prevent the release of terrorist murderers, complains law ‘contradicts IDF values’.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Much cooler than being with the false hypocrisy of the eurochristians who continue their semi clandestine libeling, swindling, torture and slaughtering of the Jews through BDS and funding arab terror orgs, subverting UN institutions lke UNHRC etc.
Are you cool with that?
Do you think the Jews should continue to be persecuted under the guise of following accepted principles of consensus? In other words, if the world reaches a consensus on swindling and killing all the jews it should be accepted by the Jews?
The Jews, by their empathetic nature, are susceptible to these eurochristian machinations and get confused by eurochristian manipulation. China, Russia display the real world as the Jews experience it but are always prevented from enjoying.
Your statements are typical and meant to confound Jews.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Only one thing??? 🙂 You are wrong about everything so I win 1 to 0.
The “light to the nations” in your very christian way of thinking is when there are no Jews left there will be light.
Dead Jews do not shine any light in my opinion and before we can shine our light we must continue to exist thrive and build an exemplar JEWISH society that will be an example for you goyim. First things first.
Democracy for me and many others is an unJewish political system not geared to the Jewish mind or way of living.
We have our own that needs to be instituted and since it was that Jewish systems that served us well for almost 1500 years why should we accept a Greek pagan system over our own that served us no worse than a form of democracy we now endure under. Both were not perfect and full of injustices. The Jewish way for we Jews is better suited for us.
Democracy is not a religious creed and should never be elevated to such a standard. If something works better for most of the people it should at least be considered.
Democracy in America has brought us Obama, 2 Bushes and a Clinton in recent years. How’s that turned out? Other nominal democracies are fairing no better. What’s so freaken holy about democracy even your yeshu was autocratic and the church he spawned was dictatorial. Actually what you call democracy is actually republicanism. I think you are confusing liberty and human rights with democracy. Not the same thing
Voting for Arabs is not very important but economic well being is. There is no mass desire to be enfranchised in the Arab societies but economic well being and opportunity is. I think you are projecting your very narrow American arrogance onto the Palis to justify your animus and biases towards we Jews in Israel.
There is no reason why we should be the real christians in the world and be held to a standard you yourselves can’t attain.
If you want to understand the Jewish concept of freedom watch this! You goyim have nothing to teach the Jews about freedom and human rights!!!!!!
proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV83UaMajzk
bernard ross Said:
Apparently it’s not being prevented now and after annexation with such a border it will be impossible. Areas annexed by Israel would be flooded with Arabs moving into those annexed areas.
Apparently Bennett views the status of Arabs in Jerusalem as a model to be copied in Area C after annexation.
What Do the Arabs of East Jerusalem Really Want?
Using the above survey I rest my case.
All Arabs must be moved out of all territories annexed by Israel preferably before annexation and that includes all Arabs presently retaining Israeli citizenship. What we freely gave we can freely take back. The Arabs under Israeli sovereignty should not retain more rights than Jews do in Arab Lands especially in Saudi Arabia.
First Cleanse the Land then Annex.
Interesting finding in the above survey of Jerusalem Arab opinions:
If you are cool with being as a dictatorial as China, then no one can stop you; but then you cannot claim to be the “light unto the nations,” which is the sine qua non of your narrative.
One cannot simultaneously claim to be Jewish and democratic, while advocating the policies of dictators.
The present policy is NOT sustainable under those parameters – not unless you ditch the “democratic” from “Jewish and democratic.”
Now, certainly Yamit, who is a fan of Kahane, would have little problem with such philosophical transactions.
But you might object to it.
It denies your self-image that the Jewish people are a cut above us goyim. Maybe so! But, if you advocate the policies of dictators, then you are not a cut above us. To admit such a concession would annoy you.
Frankly, we goyim do not set a high standard; and to advocate our policies would be quite a humiliating concession.
Dr. Martin Sherman offers a way for Israel to remain both Jewish and democratic. His reasoning is sound. He has the data which shows that half of the young Arabs in Judea and Samaria would leave.
Why do you despise his advice?
Yes, Israel can sustain the present situation; but not while maintaining it is a democracy. The narrative cannot be maintained under such an arrangement.
Sherman alone addresses the problem.
TSS, OSS, a new leader, etc. = BS. I read most of the comments. Please take a minute and look over your shoulders to see, really see, what stealth jihad made of Europe and what it has in the bag for the US. Israel is the last man standing. There is no political solution that will force the ummah to give up its goal of bringing the whole world under its boot. Think of something else for for the time being islam is here to stay. The more we want to circumvent this fact the more aggressive the enemy is going to become. I know very well that is impossible to think of a global war against it right now. Not withstanding the fact that the west had given in to them and had given up even the war of words, we ought to future generations to at list think of doing something. Certainly not anymore pussyfooting, not any more appeasement, not any more the UN/OIC to tell the world how to live in dhimmitude. During the last thousand of years many people have been there, have done that. We should ask ourselves if that is what we really want for us and our descendants.
CuriousAmerican Said:
not proven, some form of the status quo practically, with semi autonomy in a and b is sustainable. If they do not like that they have a choice to leave.
CuriousAmerican Said:
does not necessary follow: there is no evidence that autonomy over specified functions is not allowable OR sustainable. It exists now and may continue with different names. A structure or solution should be devised that answers to Israel needs. Internationals should be completely ignored as they demonstrate their bias and propensity to criticize whatever Israel does. China asked no one regarding tibet; Russia asked no one regarding Crimea or Georgia; next will be east Ukraine.
Ted Belman Said:
what is his solution?
yamit82 Said:
How is this prevented now?
After reading these comments:
Ted says he favors Bennett’s Plan over Sherman’s compensation … then goes on to mention compensated emigration.
Heh?
Sounds confusing!
Sherman is right; and has shown that about half the youth would leave right now if they could.
———————-
Yamit is right about one thing.
Israel is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t.
——————
It boils down to this: If you want a more Jewish Jewish state, then you have to get the Arabs to leave.
The only thing to debate is method.
Compensated relocation has the best chance of succeeding with the least amount of complaint.
==========================
Right now, Israel has a two tier system.
Jews on both sides of the 1967 line can vote and are citizens.
Arab are only citizens on one side of the line.
They are subject to different rules with NO vote.
It might not be apartheid, but the world will see it as segregation of a sort.
A Two-tier system cannot be explained away so easily; even if understandable.
So the present system is not sustainable.
You then either
A) Enfranchise the Arabs
-or-
B) Get them to leave
If B, you have to decide on the method.
Compensation is the least problematic.
Sherman is right.
It has to be dealt with.
drjb Said:
Ever ask the question why he spends more time out of Israel trying to influence and convince Canadians and Americans than here in Israel? Wonder why appearing and speaking in Toronto is more important than speaking and building a constituency in Dimona? I can’t recall having seen him here in Dimona a Likud Town…..
Money Money Money makes the world go round!!!!
Fact is Bennett accomplished in Two years what Feiglin hasn’t in 15-16.
I happen to believe a guy who built a start-up from scratch and sold it for 400 Million USD after 5 years doesn’t have to go begging for peanuts and is personally free from having to beg and compromise even sell out for a few shekels.
Feiglin has begun advocating very libertarian positions which makes me even more negative on him than I was before.
Since entering the Knesset after some 14 years of failure he has accomplished Nada and influenced Nada. Suppose his ego won’t let him admit he was wrong and Bennett correct and what you hear from him and supporters sounds a lot like sour grapes.
That said I agree more with feiglin’s positions than I do with Bennett but Feiglin is a loser and it’s a waste of time giving him credit he does not deserve. He could have been where Bennett is today even with a stronger result but he is myopic and stiff necked egoist who keeps proving Einstein correct about doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
There is more opposition to BB and his policies and power coming from a moron like Danon than from Feiglin. BB has him where he can’t do any harm and cause waves…Which is exactly what Eldad said would happen when he refused to Join the religious right and went his own way. It’s Feiglin who is odd man out and even divisive… he could have added to the Bayit Yehudi’s power had he joined up and not fought them. Both lost because of Feiglin’s ego trip.
@ Bear Klein:
@ Ted Belman:
If your major consideration is what will the goyim say then do nothing, as whatever you choose to do will not produce ends served but quite the opposite.
Any plan that accommodates integration of Palis into sovereign Israel is not only myopic and ignorant of facts but will acerbate and bring to reality all of the fears of negative world reaction the compromises included in all plans propose.
For example:
A- allowing an enemy population to exist among your own citizens and within your national borders is stupid. Name any other country in modern History that has done so successfully?
B-Everyone of the Pals (50,000 or 100,000) have relatives outside of the annexed areas. They will demand free access to those relatives in both directions. Young men and women marry and raise families and there will be a rush of Arabs outside of our annexed borders into them from outside. They will probably be supported by all Arab and Muslim factions to do so as well.
C- Israel can’t stop some 5,000-10,000 illegal Arabs from infiltrating into Israel every month Fence or no fence. They blend in with our Israeli Arabs in their towns and villages marry and settle down and have more Arab kids. How do any of our “Brilliant” annexation advocates, plan to stop massive Arab infiltration from areas outside the proposed borders after annexation????
Israel pays a child allowance stipend for every child Jewish or Arab so we Zionists wind up paying Arabs to have more kids and then complain about demographics. 🙁 (Chelm!!!!)
D- Once they are in, they have free access to all of Israel and theoretically can live where they wish and with Saudi Backing are buying up in Israeli towns and villages property and apts driving Jews out, who don’t want to live next to our friendly Arab cousins…Besides they destroy neighborhood property values by the very nature of their being there. The Haredim use the same tactics to grab over time whole neighborhoods in every town and city in Israel driving prices down in those areas while increasing them in areas most Israelis wish to live free of Haredim and Arabs. In the beginning some pay way above market values then as Jews seek to get out the prices drop.
E- Besides the always present terrorist threat (real and imagined) they present, they will cause a lot of negative social conflicts where today none exist:… Higher crime rates, including rapes and intermarriage (usually very young naive Jewish girl and Arab men). Most will wind up on our welfare and entitlement rolls and add many billions to our governments fiscal obligations; a significant additional burden on the backs of an already burdened Israeli taxpayer.
F- Wherever you have a few hundred Arabs, Mosques follow and besides the Jewish resentment it will be a cause of additional animus between the two communities. A mosque in every community in Israel blaring over loudspeakers a call to prayer 5 times a day from 5am, in Ramat Aviv and Afeka will go over big. 🙂 More Arabs in our universities (More radicalization), more jobs taken by Arabs willing to work for less pay will drive already low wages in some sectors even lower.
You cannot have even in a more ideal situation a large minority even ones that are peaceful as they will in time destroy what little Jewish fabric exists in Israel and our still developing Jewish Israeli culture, and the courts will defend their rights to do so. Such a minority will at best make us like Belgium an artificial country with with an artificial nationality made up of two groups who not only hate each other but don’t even speak each others language and they have more in common with one another than do we Jews and palis.
G- Assuming a certain % of the Arabs included in proposed annexations will involve themselves in active terror, the cost in lives and financial treasure to the people of Israel will increase exponentially, a cost to we Israelis over time will consider the costs greater than what most Israelis will be willing to bear and there will arise an internal movement to divest of annexed territories by all but the most hard line right in Israel. Gaza is a case in point.
MOST ARABS WILL NEVER BE LOYAL CITIZENS AND OR RESIDENTS IN A JEWISH STATE. NEVER!!!!!!!
I see such a proposition along the lines of those who pushed Oslo on us and brought an Arafat and his 40,000 thieves and murderers here from Tunis that radicalized all those Palis who weren’t before that criminal and stupid folly. These annexation plans will accomplish much the same effect without having to bring them from a long distance away.
I will repeat what I have said many times. Any plan that allows any number of Arabs to stay put and be incorporated into the sovereign borders of Israel will fail and cause more problems than they purport to solve.
@ XLucid:
I agree with your comment s lucid.
When Sadat came to ‘negotiate’ he would not give up a square inch of Egyptian territory…
Is there really NO ONE that could hold a substantial following to allow him to explain ‘the world’. That from now on, this country is under new administration???
What was…was.
Madrid, Oslo, bar ilan…. Are nul and void!
@ Ted Belman:
“Internationalcondemnation” will occur REGARDLESS of which plan.
To quote hitlery …. “What difference does it make”???
The way I see it, the greatest part of the problem, is that THIS kind of thinking even exists…
WE DO NOT OWE SHIT TO NO ONE!
au contraire.
Practically the ENTIRE WORLD owes US.
IN SPADES!!!!
@ Ted Belman:
I agree with “Feiglin supporter” as well. I just had the opportunity to listen and chat with Feiglin here in Toronto.
He has a 5 point plan for Israel moving forward. He’s smart, well spoken, an intellectual, and well dressed and polished.
He’s more coherent than Bennett and has more depth.
I still like and respect Bennett, but I think there should be more cooperation between his camp and Feiglin’s!!
Sherman’s plan is the wishful thinking of some in the right. It is pie in the sky. Elements of it could be tried such as in Area C if annexed. As much as we might like Israel is not going to have a significant amount of the Arabs leave. Some sure, but not 1.5 or 2 million. Complaints would come from the outside on both plans but that is not a basis of furthering either plan.
Sherman plan does not have a chance with Israelis which is the most significant audience. If you can not convince Israelis how are you going to convince our friends in the west to forget the TSS.
I wrote to Martin Sherman and he came back with a number of complaints. I’d like to hear your reply to just one of them, namely would Sherman’s Plan or Bennett’s Plan attract the most international condemnation? On what basis?
This plan is flexible enough to make improvements if needed. It is based on reality not the wishful thinking of left nor right. Certainly if it gets to the bill writing stage modifications will be made by coalition partners. It is a very good blue print to start from.
“In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is the king.”
How can an authentic rightist leader think that giving autonomy to Arabs of areas A and B, or giving citizenship to Arabs of area C will bring peace and security to Israel?
How can an authentic rightist leader think that that a betterment of their economy will render Arabs peaceful, that they will no longer be involved in violence towards Israel?
It will never happen: the wolf will never dwell with the lamb.
He who is not aware that the conflict with Arabs has nothing to do with poverty or boundaries of the land.
He who is not conscious that the danger of the presence of Arabs living in the midst of Jews – within Israel including the territories – is not the leader desperately needed by Israel.
Bennett is exactly what Netanyahu was at the time the latter was in the opposition party. And the comment made by the “Feiglin supporter” is absolutely true, actual and accurate.
It is high time for the good faith dreamers to wake up!
I don’t mind giving qualified Arabs in the land annexed citizenship because they would only represent about a 5% increase in Israel’s Arab population. But my concern is the establishment of a precedent that would apply to Arabs in B or A should we decide to annex those land also.
@ Bear Klein: Thanks for the link. I read it carefully.
Martin Sherman complains that the new border would be impossible assuming it went along the contours of C. He is wrong. As I see it Bennet wants to keep the security fence in place and simply change to law in Area C. Everything else remains as it was. He proposes to let all Palestinians travel any where in Area C with out roadblocks or checkpoints. Of course a census would have to be taken immediately to identify what Palestinians live there. Thus there will be no chance of Arabs from A and B infiltrating C to get citizenship. I think that is doable but would still not be quick to give Area C Arabs a citizenship track nor would I be quick to improve their lot until I had tried the compensated emigration policy.
@ Ted Belman: Bennett’s plan here is the link.
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I replied
A Feiglin supporter wrote to me:
I hope others will also endorse Bennett and his plan. His idea is the best and most realistic plan going.
Bennett knows that he and other religious Jews are the future, due to demographics, and it scares the s**t out of the Israeli media/left complex. Israel’s change toward being an Orthodox nation was slowed by the great Soviet immigration, but that has been over for 20 years, and the remnants of European Jewry can do nothing to stop it now even when (not if) they immigrate.
What scares the left even more is that they know Bennett is smarter than any of them, although they will never admit it.