Min. Michael Malkieli speaks about Draft Law, says no intention to push for blanket exemption for haredi community.
Israel National News 5.9.23
Religious Affairs Minister Michael Malkieli (Shas) spoke on Tuesday about the Draft Law, saying that the coalition is not intending to advance a blanket exemption for the haredi population.
In an interview with Behadrey Haredim, Malkieli said, “We are partners in the coalition, and we have needs. The Likud signed agreements with us, and they know exactly what is important to each party. The issue of the Draft Law is something which is dear to the hearts of haredi Jewry. We have made a commitment to the Torah learners and we intend to fulfill our obligation.”
“This law is very complex. It is a law which first of all requires that the Torah sages approve it, that we know that the Defense Ministry will also support us, and obviously we need to know how to pass it in the court.”
Regarding a potential timetable, Malkieli said, “It’s obvious that in the next session we will find the wording to pass the law. There is no law to exempt haredim from enlisting, only to exempt the Torah learners; within that framework there is no more or less.”
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When asked whether the haredim support the judicial reform, he said, “We supported Justice Minister Yariv Levin’s processes, and we trust him. What the order of arrival at the Knesset is, and what the doses are – that is why we have coalition leaders.”
“I have not heard about a representative of the haredi community, from Shas, coming and speaking out against Minister Yariv Levin. We trust him, we appreciate him, and we think he is doing what he believes, and therefore he receives backing from the coalition.”
He added, “There are things that the judiciary needs to fix. It’s not just a haredi demand, but a demand by quite a lot of sectors. The haredi public, throughout the years, has been hurt by the judiciary. The system does not read us properly.
@Ted Belman
Torah requires military service to defend Israel.
I think they don’t want to serve because to them Israel is not a Jewish state (some of their groups decided to enter politics solely to support their communities).
I saw a photo once of a Hareidi demonstration against the draft and the children were holding signs saying something like “We are not kantonisten!” (see Jewish history in the times of Nicholas I in the tsarist Russia).
@Linda. I wish I knew, I have been posting articles of late informing us all.. I think they want to avoid the draft and post secondary education is to avoid being influenced by secular society…They fear losing some of their kids to it.
I am an American Jew, not an Israeli Jew, and I have a question. Why isn’t the heredi population required to serve in the military, just NOT in combat? A compromise is necessary, and this seems fair and reasonable to me. Freedom is not free. Even Torah learners must find a few hours a day to give to their country, if they still want a country where they are free to be Torah learners.
@Bear Calling a draft an enlistment is an Orwellian euphemism if ever I heard one, unless it’s the name of a new beer label, right up there with “gender-affirming care” and “female circumcision”. 😀
@Seb, Israeli traditions and practices about how they use more a word that translates better to enlistment than draft (word is one in the same “Giuse”)
@Bear A draft is cumpulsory by definition and I did suggest national service of some kind.
@Ted Belman
Personally, I would rather that they didn’t serve in the army because in Israel they seem to be too Arabized for this, meaning that they could be as unpredictable and dangerous as the Arabs but I would introduce some very strict legislation in regards to their national service (making sure that learning Torah, secondary and higher schooling, serving their own communities, etc. don’t count as national service, and if someone happens to have a disability which prevents him or her from doing their duty, then one of their relatives will have to serve for them – in addition to serving for himself).
In my opinion, these people are not really following the Torah, they are interpreting it or even ignoring it to suit themselves.
There is a book by Rabbi Ya’akov Moshe Bergman A Question of Redemption Can the Modern Israel be the Beginning of Redemption? Questions and Answers in Halacha.
I very much recommend reading this book to learn what the (national) religious among us think about the rest of the Jews.
If they can use subsidies to learn Torah, why not give a subsidy to every Jewish male in Israel so he can also engage in this highly important mitzvah?
@Reader. My first choice is that they serve in the Army like everybody else. But it looks like the draft law will be passed in September. I am not happy with it. If I had a choice, I would rather get them into the workforce, supporting themselves, then get them into the IDF.. The problem is, if they can use post secondary education as national service, why can’t everybody?
@Ted Belman
Are you serious?
@Seb, Israel only drafts Arabs who want to be drafted (or their clan leaders) because otherwise it would be drafting enemies. So some Bedouin Tribes get drafted and some do not.
When I lived at Sde Boker (in the Negev) in the 1970s there was a small Bedouin tribe that lived nearby. The sons were drafted. I became friendly with the Sheiks son, who was in the IDF.
I found an article about Bedouin’s being drafted. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/record-number-of-bedouin-drafted-into-idf-in-2020-681319
There now some Christian Arabs who have asked to be drafted and are because they have decided they are Israelis. Just like some other minorities.
@Bear
? Is the draft a selective service with regard to the Bedouin?
@Seb, actually I do not hate Haredim at all. Nor do I put them all in one basket. In fact if they got better educated and did some time of service it would greatly improve their personal lives. So I want what is good for Israel and the Haredi. This should be a win – win!!
That does not mean they are not above critique. Trying to say the problem is all the secularists prejudiced is actually ill informed. Religious people who serve feel the same way. Also so do many right wingers.
This is not an issue I think anyone but Israelis in general can actually have a feel for, whether generally informed or not.
The Arabs are a separate subject. By the way many Bedouin do get drafted! Their communities have agreed to do this for generations.
@Bear
You mean like the Arabs, such as the Bedouin for starters?
Sure, the Haredim could do some kind of national service but so could the Arabs if they claim the benefits and privileges of citizenship. Same goes for taxes. Why single Jews out? Both groups, as Adam pointed out would be more trouble than they would be worth in the army.
Ted’s suggestion of vocational education as national service also sounds like a promising avenue to pursue.
I think the problem lies more in the bigotry of secularists against the religious, which is also a big part of
The reason they want to relinquish the territories, maybe the main reason, which would explain a lot given the obvious fallacy and failure of the TSS.
“Admit it, you hate religious Jews”
“What the latest outburst of anti-Haredi misinformation tells us about progressive notions of identity and power”
BY
LIEL LEIBOVITZ
AUGUST 22, 2023
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/open-season-religious-jews
Haredim, in the USA work. Haredim in Israel need to work and not pretend they are going to Yeshiva to study (to get their welfare monies). Also a reasonable amount need to do National Service be it Border Police, regular police, fire fighting, ambulance work………etc. Some in larger numbers (not all) need to enlist in the IDF.
Israel can no longer subsidize a population that refuses to work or do military service. The populace that does contribute to the burden will no longer accept this. The societal schism is very bad and getting worse.
As an alternate to military service, the Haredim should be able to attend post secondary school to get qualified to get a job and earn a living. The should be considered their national service.
This would be good for the IDF and good for the Haredim. and good for Israel.
I believe that the number of haredim, or at any rate men who grew up in haredi neighborhoods and attended haredi schools, is about the maximum number that the IDF can absorb or wishes to serve in any case. The IDF leadership has mixed feelings about haredi service in the military. Most senior officers consider the haredim who are now serving in the IDF to be pains in the ass and the last thing they want is more haredim serving. The haredim who are serving in the iDF make all kind of demands. For example, the haredi soldiers of each haredi community, and there are about sixteen of them in Israel, demand that the the rebbe of their particular community, or its community of sages, certify that the food they are being served in their units are “glat kosher” You can imagine what a nightmare this is for the army brass, In addition, the haredim won’t serve in units in which there are any female soldiers, won’t serve in tank crews if there are any women in the tanks, won;t even remain in the audience if there are women entertainers brought in by the army to entertain the troops. The army officer corps doesn’t want any increase in the number of haredim serving at present.
The complaints about haredim being draft dodgers also overlooks the fact that several thousand haredim of military age attempt to enlist every year, but two thirds of them are rejected for military service because they cannot pass either the physical or mental tests required for recruits. The haredi leadership does bear a large share of the blame for this situation, because the haredi yeshivas have failed to provide students with education in secular subjects and physical education, As a result, many of the young haredi men who try to enlist every year are found to be unfit. But the fact remains that, even if their elders disapprove, thousands of young haredi men either enlist in the IDF every year, I therefore regard the media’s and the left’s indignation at the haredi’s draft exemption to be unjustified and a distortion of the facts, The army already has as many serving haredi soldiers as they can cope with. There is no mass evasion of service by young haredi men,
What I;ve been writing all along. Shas;s position is that those haredim who do not wish to be full-time :Torah students or who are not considered to be serious, dedicated,Torah students by the heads of their yeshivas should volunteer or be drafted into the army., while the genuine. serious Torah scholars who are wiling to devote their entire lives to to Torah study should be allowed to do so. That would translate into about half of haredi of military age serving, and the other half being lifetime Torah students. This is different from the “hard line” taken by aome of the United Torah Judaism factions, who want to continue a blanket exemption for all haredim.