T. Belman. This is obviously a biased article. Nevertheless, I believe the division is worth noting.
Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine has radically ruptured the millions-strong Russian-speaking Jewish diaspora — our own families and friends included. Is the ex-Soviet Jewish world now broken for good?
Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has caused unprecedented divisions within the Russian-speaking Jewish world, within families, between friends and among major organizations serving the community Credit: AP Photo/Petr David Josek
By Marina Sapritsky-Nahum and Vladislav Davidzon, HAARETZ Apr 13/22
Russian president Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a blitzkrieg invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, 2022, has severed Russia from the rest of the world. Russia is now a pariah state, with Putin’s unprovoked war and his army’s war crimes stirring up anti-Russian sentiment the world over – which is more than ironic, given the Kremlin’s frequent allegations of an organized campaign of “Russophobia” against it. The invasion has also caused turmoil within Russia and in Russian-speaking diasporas around the globe.
Many Russian citizens in the diaspora feel anger, shame and guilt over a war unleashed in their name. The animosity felt by many Russians abroad towards members of the diaspora who support Putin’s actions is often more intense than that directed at those back in Russia, who have had to make much more difficult choices. The ruptures within the wider Russian-speaking diaspora are mirrored in the millions-strong Russian-speaking Jewish diaspora, which is concentrated in Israel, the United States and parts of Western Europe.
We are dual Russian-American nationals, Russian-speaking Jews who grew up and live in the West (Vladislav in Kyiv and Paris, Marina in London). Today we’re experiencing unprecedented levels of division and cleavage in the Russian Jewish diasporas of both Paris and London – and also within our own families and circles of friends, who are split by their stances on the war.
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In fact, Putin’s irredentism, far from triggering an ingathering of exiles, has sundered the numerous Russian diaspora communities. But it’s not just a simple rhetoric of being for or against the war that frames the internal conflict of Russian nationals abroad. They are further split by their personal connections to the people they know and love in Russia and Ukraine.
Protesters marching at a rally in support of Ukraine, in front of the Russian embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel Credit: Tomer Applebaum
The range of views in the Russian diasporas spans a wide spectrum: from defending the Kremlin and amplifying the rhetoric of the NATO threat and the “Nazi” regime in Kyiv, to steadfastly opposing the war. But some of those who are anti-Putin also believe that the United States is to blame, while others agree on implementing sanctions but recognize that sanctions hurt ordinary people. These individuals have empathy for family members and friends who are affected by Russia’s rapid slide into an ersatz version of the Soviet Union (minus the brotherhood of man).
As anti-Russian sentiment grows in the West, ex-Soviets and Russians in the diaspora are also deeply pained by the wholesale rejection of “Russianness,” and many take a stance against the boycott of Russian identity and culture.
The abrupt changes and fragmentations of the moment are forcing all of us to reexamine what it means to be Russian, and to redefine our connections with the Russian cultural world and the Russian language. A social litmus test may be emerging in the diaspora, where a single pivotal factor – your stance on the Russian war in Ukraine – reveals your true character and establishes whether you’re acceptable in Russian-speaking society abroad, or not.
- Ukrainians fleeing ‘hell’ in Mariupol find a city free of Russian occupation, but in denial
- The shocking inspiration for Putin’s atrocities in Ukraine
- Ukraine war: Why Putin’s propagandists claim they’re the ‘new Jews’
- Meet the Israelis fighting in Ukraine’s ‘Foreign Legion’
- How the Russia-Ukraine crisis is playing out thousands of miles away, in Israel
We ourselves have seen all these dynamics in our own social and familial circles. Some of our friends have become apologists for the war, pointing to false equivalencies in Western behavior. Some of our relatives, Russian citizens, are organizing humanitarian aid for victims of the war.
Some, including Vladislav, have burned their Russian passports in protest. Some refuse to socialize with Putin’s backers. Others argue that disturbing images of the war are fake. Marina has been raising awareness and funds for grassroot volunteer initiatives in Odessa and helping Ukrainian refugees in Berlin, while her sister, who recently opened a Russian restaurant in San Francisco, is hosting a charity dinner on the eve of Passover to support the World Central Kitchen in Ukraine and has declared on social media that “We stand with Ukraine” and “We stand for Peace.”
People attending a pro-Russian demonstration amid the war in Ukraine in Tel Aviv, IsraelCredit: Tomer Applebaum
Added to all this are the enormous demographic changes in progress, with millions of refugees being forced from Ukraine and a steady stream of people leaving an increasingly repressive Russia. Ironically, the imposition by Western governments of the most concerted sanctions regime in history also means that the Russian diaspora itself is about to become much larger, and may be longer-term than Ukrainians eager to return home once the war ends.
It’s too early to predict how the Russian Jewish diaspora will grow as a result of the war – but grow it will. According to Nativ, the Israeli government office that deals with immigration from the former Soviet Union (FSU) and Eastern Europe, some 12,000–13,000 Russian Jews have expressed interest in immigrating to Israel.
A sign showing a flag of Israel superimposed with the blue and yellow national colors of Ukraine at a shelter for Ukrainian Jewish refugees in Moldova’s capital ChisinauCredit: GIL COHEN-MAGEN – AFP
Many who are leaving Russia don’t know if and when they’ll be able to return, but they’re seeking an insurance policy against the Russian state’s unpredictable politics and authoritarian regime. Even if they’re granted residency rights in Europe, or they immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return, they won’t necessarily relocate permanently: we can expect Russian Jewish expatriates to keep moving between European states and Israel in the years to come.
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Until this war, the cultural differences between the Russian and Ukrainian Jewish diasporas were blurred in many networks of Russian-speaking Jewry in the West. Jews from the FSU have historically identified with the Russian language as a key marker of their identity, and most still do.
Until recently, this linguistic bond was enough to organize initiatives like Limmud FSU, the Russian-speaking branch of a global non-denominational Jewish cultural and educational program, without distinction of geographic origin, and to unite the home and diaspora communities of Russian-speaking Jewry.
Sanctions on Russian Jewish oligarchs will change the Russia-speaking Jewish institutional world: Moshe Kantor, Mikhail Fridman, Oleg Deripaska, Viktor Vekselberg and Roman AbramovichCredit: Stansall Ben/AFP, Sputnik/Sitdikov Ramil/AFP, Rudakov Andrey/Bloomberg, Rudakov Andrey/ Bloomberg, Navarrete Angel/Bloomberg, Shutterstock ;iStockphoto/Images Getty — jeremyreds, ta
The new reality of Russia’s war on Ukraine will reframe philanthropy structures, relations and institutions in the post-Soviet Jewish diaspora for generations. Wealthy individuals whose oligarchic fortunes are tied to Putin will be removed from boards and lists of official donors, while many others’ legitimacy will be called into question.
The war’s effects are already starting to impact the social fabric of synagogue life and the network of global Jewish groups. Leaders of congregations and organizations are being condemned for “taking Russian money” and maintaining ties to Russia; the departure of now-sanctioned oligarchs from the philanthropic circles of Jewish communities in London and elsewhere will jeopardize the infrastructure of Russian-speaking Jewish partnerships aimed at strengthening the Jewish identity of Russian-speaking Jews worldwide.
Since they emigrated in small numbers in the 1970s and en masse after perestroika and, later, the fall of the USSR, Russian-speaking Jews have been raising their profile, their reputation, and their voice in the larger Jewish communities that welcomed them. Some scholars of Russian-speaking Jewry saw the transnational Jewish identity of the ex-Soviet Jewish global diaspora as the future of the Jewish experience, capable of lighting the path for American Jews and others.
Many Jewish community leaders worry that 30-plus years of investment in the ex-Soviet Jewish world is now broken beyond repair. Investments made by wealthy Russian Jews in advancing Jewish identity, culture, history and education, as well as training community leaders and fighting antisemitism around the world, are now scrutinized (though some of the latter initiatives have been criticized for going easy on Russia’s own antisemitism problem and tendencies towards WWII revisionism.)
A refugee from the war in Ukraine arriving at Ben-Gurion International Airport, Israel recently Credit: Hadas Parush
Each of us has a choice in negotiating this uncharted territory. Russian, Russian-speaking and ex-Soviet Jewish diasporas around the world need an open dialogue to start rebuilding familial relations and friendships.
There is hope that Russian liberals living abroad, along with those trying to survive in Russia, are paving the way through this unmapped landscape towards a new type of “Russianness” – one that’s against the Russian regime but connected to Russian culture and language –and using these tools as weapons of power to speak against the war, to express their support for Ukraine, to defend their identity and to regain pride in being Russian speakers.
The Russian citizens who are prepared to face jail time to prove that Putin and his war aren’t only against Ukraine, “but against the better part of his own country,” know that a formidable Russian diaspora stands behind them. It is up to Russian-speaking Jewish communities to stake a claim in that movement as well.
Many Russian citizens abroad feel extreme distress about the Ukraine war, fearing for the future of Ukraine, Russia and the world, and for their close kin across the borders. The chasm caused by the war in the Russian-speaking diasporas is likely to persist for years, causing bitter divisions that are both long-lasting and unpredictable in their scope and repercussions.
Vladislav Davidzon, a Russian-American writer, translator and critic is Tablet’s European culture correspondent, Chief Editor of The Odessa Review and a Non-Resident Fellow at the Atlantic Council. He was born in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, raised in Moscow and New York, and lives in France and Ukraine. He is the author of “From Odessa With Love: Political and Literary Essays in Post-Soviet Ukraine” (2021) Twitter: @VladDavidzon
Marina Sapritsky-Nahum is a Visiting Fellow in the Anthropology Department at the London Scool of Economics and Policial Science. Her work focuses on Jewish life after the fall of the Soviet Union, migration and urban life with a focus on Odessa, Ukraine. She has also written about cosmopolitanism, philanthropy and heritage travel. Twitter: @Sapritsky_Nahum
Peloni
You write
I do not bet on that. But the main thing at the moment is that I have to wade through your dense text to arrive at very – very little.
I made quite a few points just previous to yours and you didn’t take them up but nobody else did either. When that happens repeatedly I conclude there’s no interest so I retreat to my twitter struggles which are more productive
But I’m not unhappy either. I did show that you used a method against me which could not be more dishonest. So I am happy.
@Felix
So first I am cruel, then pathetic an just a little bit crude, do you feel better now? Your personal critique of me are quite a silly distraction to the fact that you have spoken to everything except the one point I challenged you on, which was not a detail within your original thesis. There is plenty we might agree upon, but your determination that you alone should be heard to protect “mankind” from the likes of Bear and Laura, and no doubt myself, based on your own hypocritical self-delusions of grandeur renders the conversation somewhat sour which is why it drew my focus.
There is a great deal to concern ourselves with the challenges existing within a Uni-polar world, which is, itself, controlled and manipulated by a single corrupt nation. The corruption is a reflection of the corrupt leaders, elected and non-elected, who have co-opted the national agencies and warped national and foreign policies, simply to support the continuation of their own position, authority and wealth. The corruption in the US is the cause of where the world stands today, and this is not easily debated, IMHO.
As the Uni-polar power, the US had a duty to their public and the world to provide the leadership and tutelage to pursue a better path. Instead they provided a policy that led emerging “democracies” towards authoritarian, plutocratic mafia states, some of which are run with better outcomes than others, but which provide offshore money laundering hubs thru which the US politicos could manipulate foreign aid packages to further fill their own pockets while exploiting their own taxpayers and the citizens and resources of these emerging democracies. Yes, Ukraine is a perfect example of this, but so too was Russia, which I wrote at length a few days ago to demonstrate. These flaws, however, are not inherent to a capitalist society as you assert, but rather, they are due to deep rooted CORRUPTION within the capitalist system which led to the failure of this model. Perhaps, it could never work as without a foreign adversary to demand a discipline policy, absolute corruption would be too tempting to ignore without a reason to exercise self restraint, just as there was no self-restraint demonstrated as the US led the NATO powers towards the continuous pursuit of their forever wars. The truth is that the US used war to overturn stable nations without any regard for the thousands of people dying under their bombing raids. The reasons were variously based while claiming to stabilizing the region while pursuing a destabilizing approach. These wars were quite avoidable, manufactured out of a desired will which was quite the antithesis of a democratic nation, even though these wars gained the support of the democracies forming NATO, the mechanism of defense which faced down the Soviet Union and was then left to be creatively employed towards some very regretful choices.
I don’t agree with your continued perspective on Bear and Laura, as it was not their defense of capitalism, which seems a fixed obsession with you, that drew their defense but rather with American exceptionalism, at least that is my interpretation of their opinion. In this I agree with them, only American exceptionalism has been quite betrayed these last 30yrs, save for Trump’s attempt to revive it. Had it been more present over these past three decades we would not be faced with the situation we see today.
Peloni
You are actually pathetic. And it is important to recognise that.
It is your method which I am sad to say is just a bit crude. So crude it clouds everything IMHO. You disregard the essence of an argument and zero in on one part, often a sentence, highlight that sentence, expand on it for your own purposes and result IS distortion. So here you zero in on at most one fifth, flog it to death, result my position is distorted. All with fancy language which makes it worse ha ha!
And my analysis is important. A nation is being destroyed by a massive Imperialism setup. That setup involves the great United States of America, all of the great Europe including Britain and endless client States around the borders of the target.
A complete blank out on the news media
A massive imposition of genocides charges on Russia with no investigation.
Endless propaganda against Russia and Russian people.
And Biden drives to destroy Russia.
But sadly that is not all. As John Meirsheimer said recently the great fear of humanity is that the United States of America will push to nuclear war.
We have two powerfully armed nuclear States here.
Russia must be very much wishing for peace with the people of Donbass and Crimea made safe. But looks like that will not be possible. Even a small danger of nuclear war keeps me awake at night.
Now Bear and Laura are reading the site. But they cannot be reached through argument that is it.
They cannot be in s site which supports what I have written.
I say to them why are you driving to destroy Russia.
Why are you supporting a Fascist Ukraine and a Fascist United States of America and why are you making us endure the risk of Nuclear War?
They are doing all of those things.
Reader put forward points 3 4 and 5 They were a description of the objective situation that America is in. It was a vice grip and it meant that the programme of Trump as well as Biden or whoever has to be a program of Fascism.
The great problem is that the objective situation spells out Fascism. That is what Reader analysed.
The war to destroy Russia and China is connected.
It is connected to the total crisis in our capitalist system. Everything connects to that.
The objective situation in our world changed and thanks to our looking at things afresh we began to address real issues. Laura and Bear great enthusiasts of the goodness of capitalism could not accept that the United States of America was the greatest danger on the face of the earth – ever!
@ Felix:
Not nice, Felix, Darlin. I am as sweet as Tupelo Honey.
@Felix
By what right do you claim to carry the will of mankind? Your presumed perfect knowledge paired with a decided arrogance is quite an unpleasant picture of an elitist class mentality.
I champion them and you both to have your say and explain your reasons. Their voice would not harm you, no more than yours would harm them. In fact, the simple act of conversation might achieve a greater understanding of the breach that divides the two sides and this alone would be a tolerable victory to claim. For this, you say I am cruel. I will leave it to others to consider which of us are the more cruel, you with your intolerance of discordant views or me for my toleration of all voices. This thread is well past exhausted, let us accept we do not agree and be done with it.
Edgar the post Maidan war goes back see
https://mobile.twitter.com/FelixQuigley
Examine first two tweets and see what you think
You are a cruel person and you also deliberately distort people’s viewpoint.
Let me go slowly so you can follow
I wrote in the main item
That’s not totally the reason they left. They were seeking to have a site which was Fascist and which was totally in support of the Fascist and Unipolar program of the United States of America. The political position of people like that must be clearly identified. And if that’s not done in the most explicit manner possible then the door is left open for the future most deadly attacks against the Jewish people. Bear and Laura are American and are the most slavish supporters of the United States of America as it pushes our world to nuclear war. In fact I strongly believe people like that should not get the chance to leave but should be kicked right out on the basis that their political position is incompatible with the needs of mankind. END QUOTE
What I said in the above is that the United States of America today on this war on Russia and in alliance with Fascists in Ukraine is pushing most recklessly towards Nuclear war.
Do you see that Peloni? Do not distort.
Do you agree with my assessment Peloni?
Is that not exactly what the United States of America is doing every minute of every hour of this present time.
So I will repeat then Peloni any people whoever they are if they support that ask them to find another site like a fascist one.
I would do the same to you or anybody. Laura and Bear were examples in a bigger world.
That is how grievous I think the role of the United States of America is now under either of these two parties.
I am as clear as daylight.
Going on what I know already about yourself wait and see. I do not want anybody who in any way supports the above role of the United States of America to remain on Israpundit.
And if you don’t mind I will be seeking clarity on where people like you are standing. Or anybody.
@Reader I was responding lightly with sarcasm to Felix’s hyperbole. I was giggling as i wrote that my feelings were hurt. It’s also a quote from many a Korean drama where such words have impact. Another fun one is “You’re words are too harsh.”
@Felix
It is not my intent to be either cruel nor even disrespectful of you or any other here. As to my tone, it was quite in response to your unflagging call for censors to support your own voice which, let me tell you, is quite unnecessary to your ability or your objectives.
As you warn of the dangers of our current age, you appear quite oblivious to the dangers of your own consistent demands to silence voices simply because they are not concurrent with your own, even as these tactics are plied to corale and shepherd ignorance among the masses in less liberated corners of the web than Ted affords us here. Hence, my change of tone.
I do not believe, however, my response was more out of line than were your calls to sensor our fellow bloggers and friends simply to suit your views, regardless of their content. I was in fact struck by the similarity in your deep intolerance to hear a discordant argument much as Laura and Bear before they left our company, though they would hear no more of us while you would hear no more of them. I would chastise anyone for such ill spirited designs to avoid a civil conversation, and suggest that a vigorous but respectful debate might result in a better outcome than cherishing the vile Twitter tactics so well pursued in our modern age.
If you feel I overstepped my reproach of your censoring ways, I will offer you my regrets, but I will likely respond in kind again the next time you suggest it, just as I did the two times previous that you have called for such things. I believe it is a terribly dangerous and harmful tactic you champion, and you have no need of such a crutch of support having often proven yourself as being quite capable of tolerating the challenge of a spirited debate without suffering much for the effort.
@Edgar G
The article is not about how the Russian and the Ukrainian Jews are split.
It is about how the war is splitting the Jewish communities primarily in Israel and the US.
The 14,000 dead are the civilians from the Donbass region of the Eastern Ukraine which includes the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
These areas wanted autonomy and Ukraine responded by starting an “anti-terrorist” operation in April of 2014 against the Donbass “separatists”.
The 14,000 dead are the civilians from the “separatist” regions.
The count is not about how many Russian speakers are killed vs. how many Ukrainian speakers.
90% of the Ukrainian population either know how to speak Russian (in the Western Ukraine many don’t speak it very well since there are more people there who only speak Ukrainian at home) or speak it as their native language (a very large percentage).
They say that Ukraine amassed very large forces around Donbass in February and planned an attack in March to finish off the “separatists”, and that’s why the Russians invaded preemptively to protect them.
@Sebastien Zorn
Felix probably just meant he values my opinions or postings.
He was just being too emphatic.
@TED-
Yes we know the war has been a long term item. And since you rightly state the duration-so far- do you not think it’s surprising that so few TOTAL fatalities have occurred as 14,000. about 1600 a year??
But, nit-picking or not. I merely pointed out a fact that you neglected to mention. As a War, it seemed, until the Russian invasion, rather low-grade.
@Edgar
You are nitpicking.
What matters is that the War had been going on for 8 or 9 years.
Concerning the topic of the article, just can not see how this War “splits” the Jews, other than that they are citizens of both warring sides
The only way a Russian Jew would harm a Ukrainian Jew would be if a he was a soldier and was shooting at an enemy whose ethnicity would be the last thing he’d be thinking of.
This happened in WW1. The Chazan in our Shool in Dublin was a German soldier in WWi, having been called up. He told us he’d fired his rifle when ordered but deliberately never aimed at anyone.
They are both in the same bind.
@ TED-
Too much hyperbole here.
ONCE and for all, there are TWO sides in a war. The 14,000 killed were not ALL Russian speakers, although i’m sure moat were,, as Ukrainians also, many of them, speak Russian too.
The 14,000 killed included those of BOTH sides.
An excellent article about the war in Ukraine:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/03/02/the-cursed-words-of-war-ukraine-that-mainstream-media-dare-not-speak/
@Felix
My feelings are hurt.
@FelixQuigley
It might be also about the 1917 but they certainly don’t like the folks who disobey.
Belarus refused to follow the pandemic plan (they were promised a very handsome financial incentive for “a situation like in Italy” and refused) and got a “color revolution” which was, fortunately, unsuccessful.
And here is a story about how the Russian population successfully resisted the implementation of the vaccine QR codes (it is almost funny):
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/01/21/qr-codes-are-dead-in-russia/
I don’t know any “freedom-loving” Western country which could pull off something like this.
@Honeybee Welcome back, by the way.
Reader
The one person I value here.
It is obvious that the United States of America are going to aim at what they have always wanted to do and that is make the insolent workers pay for taking the power in October 1917.
It was greeted in all kinds of places in Ireland like Mallow Creamery!
The Revolution was also emotional and the capitalists never forgave.
More concretely they exploit the goodness the raw minerals of Russia, probably break it up, instal puppets. Depopulation certainly.
And create the platform to smash China. Note how these Chinese Stalinists hold back at this critical time. As the rope tightens on the neck of Russia so theirs too. That is Stalinism. Always slow.
That obviously is what Biden and Trump are after. As Meirsheimer says to be top dog or Unipolarity.
If this is not stopped billions will die and if you’re an animal forget it.
So with all their warmongering what will these savages of the United States of America actually gain…just the obliteration of life on earth
Peloni
You have changed your tone from when you asked me for some works on Trotsky. Then you were quite a different person. Now you refer to me with cruelty.
But remember this. I was on this site long before you, not that that matters, but except for the reality the world is much less safe today, much less.
So your cruelty to me is not going to be a lot of use.
@Ted
@Honeybee
Excellent observations, Ted.
This is true and, of course, we have a list of existing precedents in international law establishing that the international organization between Russia Donetz and Lugans, the CSTO, has an established right to act out of self defense. The matter is actually much more significantly established by the fact that, unlike the claims of self-defense cited by NATO in Serbia, Lybia, Syria or Iraq, the CSTO has two nations who were under severe bombardment, and the bombardment had intensified in the days just prior to Russia’s invasion. Just another provocation that I failed to note.
@Felix
Actually you are not talking about the Fascists in Ukraine. You are talking about silencing the voices of our friends discussing the matter here on Israpundit. I would support doing more than censoring against the Ukrainian Fascists, but I would literally part ways with my own hand before supporting silencing free speech in any context. It is counterproductive, preserves bad ideas and kills innovative solutions. It displays a clear lack of conviction in those who would seek its support and provides the protection of ignorance as its only defense of purpose. There is no merit to be gained by hiding from what we can not out-reason while shuttering a frank conversation with those of an opposing view. There is also the potential loss of the possibility that we might lose a supporting view, in them or us, by the chance utterance of a silly, bold or brilliant thought. And is it not better to convince our enemies of their flaws with a reasoned conversation rather than abandoning them to their foolish unchallenged convictions simply because we were too inflated with our own self-righteousness to take the effort to explain why they alone were incorrect.
I appreciate the advocacy that you hold for that which you oppose and for that which see as true, but you only aid the ignorant by not taking the effort to demonstrate, to them and yourself, that you, alone, are correct, while allowing them the opportunity do the same. If the matter is as quick and easy a topic to certify their silence, how can it not be easily explained, and thereby gain an ally in pursuing what we know to be true and right.
There are many false ideas that are held as truth by far too many, but the only ones that can not be exposed as false are those that lie within a censored realm.
@Honeybee
Peloni left out the most important thing..
Til 2013, Ukraine was run by a pro Russian government.
Then there was a CIA sponsored coup that replaced Ukraine leadership with a pro-western and anti Russia government.. But the new leadership wasn’t supported by the two eastern provinces. So the Ukrainian army including the Azov Battalion continued fighting these provinces and since 2014 killed 14,000 Russian speaking Ukrainians living there. In Feb 2022, the said provinces declared independence and invited Russia to come and defend them.
@Honeybee
It is true that Russia attacked Ukraine, but Ukraine did something that should be a lesson to all nations, they were led to subvert the policy of another nation in place of one that might have pursued their own interests. For instance, it was not in Ukraine’s interest, in the midst of a civil war, to threaten a nation many times her size, which also had an economy many times her size, which also has a military many times her size, which is coincidentally armed with nuclear munitions and supersonic missiles, neither of which Ukraine can boast. The Ukrainian threats towards Russia were also not subtle mis-pronouncements of a more mild policy, but, rather, they had been an escalating policy of provocation with an obvious intent over the past year beginning within a couple of weeks of the new administration taking power in the US. These provocations were specifically focused to gain the ire of Russia with the only possible result being very similar to what has developed.
Ukraine openly threatened to attack Russia. She threatened she had full support to join NATO. She shut down water access to the Crimea. She threatened to reopen her nuclear program to oppose Russia, while having free access to nuclear material that could currently be employed as a dirty bomb, not to mention the biolab “defensive” materials. Many will suggest that these were not reasons enough to support Russia’s actions and the outbreak of war. I would suggest that these were directly related to Russia’s actions.
What is more than an opinion is that Ukraine did provoke the Russians, and that it was never reasonably possible for Ukraine to face down Russia, and that NATO would not come to aid Ukraine against a nuclear power with which they have had a long term dispute. A more telling truth, however, is that the Ukrainians were employed as a lure, used to entice Russia towards war. That enticement was made overwhelming between the progressing policies of Ukrainian provocation, alongside the US revelation that there would be no response in kind to any Russian military action in Ukraine.
Hence, the children for who you grieve, and I share your sentiments on this, are suffering due to the poor leadership within Ukraine that came to enact policies that sought to support US interests over those of Ukraine, and now Ukraine, and her children, are suffering the consequence of this poor leadership in Kiev, to adopt the US strategy that is killing many people, some Nazi’s, some innocents and far too many children.
As I say, there is a lesson for other nations to learn from the tragedy of a client-state acting as if they had no choice but to pursue unwise choices, chosen for them by their client-state masters.
@Felix
I met Mankind once at a party. Didn’t say much. I guess you are one of the few he confides in. Around here, people talk about the needs of the Universe or the Planet. I wonder if they are related. Could they all be related to The Coast? Cousins, maybe?
https://youtu.be/H9EVEM3_5Rs
@Ted Belman
Or they had to toe the line in terms of what they were supposed to write.
I know a few Jews from the FSU, and based on my unscientific observation, those with the “pro-Russian” views are better educated, more intelligent, and view the events in context (because they take pains to be better informed), and therefore, unfortunately, they are in the minority.
@Honeybee
This Jewish nation has just scuttled a great opportunity for the aliyah of at least 200,000 Ukrainian Jews while importing tens of thousands of non-Jewish Ukrainians who would be better off anywhere in Europe.
I guess, in Europe the Jews are “those Asiatics/Semites who don’t belong in Europe” but when they move to the ME, all of a sudden they become “those Europeans who don’t belong in the ME (Asia)”.
Peloni
I am talking about the Fascists like those who took over the Ukrainian Government in February 2014 promoted by the government of the United States of America and who Russia is fighting. What position to take with those who support these Fascists? I do not think they should have a platform. Why should they?
What outrages? What sources are you using to form your opinions on? Who conducted the investigation of say Bucha? The BBC? Before charges are laid there is normally an independent investigation. But that is not happening
@Felix
What twaddle. The hypocrisy is always thickest around those seeking to censor those with whom one might disagree. Let us recall a phrase penned by Thomas Jefferson:
Is it not the free market of ideas where merit will seek out the greater reason and silence thoughts of lesser value? It would seem that you would prefer to simply presume an arrogance of perfect knowledge rather than having to prove you are more correct than you are wrong in your stated believes. Your intolerance for free speech seems to ironically parallel those of Bear and Laura, each of whom chose to self-censor themselves from our group over the open discussion on this topic, presumably as they believed their views so compulsively that their ears could not accept one more tone of dissent to the echo-thought preserved within their ears. It seems you are of a like mind, but being the good old revolutionary that you are, you would evict the whole world to leave your voice as the lone test of included sounds. Come, let us discuss these matters openly with our friends, sharing a proof of reason over an adopted right-speech as the validation of what is correct and true, and leave these autocratic delusions of grandeur and omniscience to a greater power than we mere mortals.
I love neither Russia nor Ukraine. My heart goes out to the children. Who are paying, with their lives, for outrageous committed before their birth?
How can Felix claim that Russia is the victim when it is Russia attacked Ukraine?
I am not in any shape or form for giving any space on this website to any person in any way supportive of Azov and the present Ukrainian Government which is the puppet of the now very dangerous regime in Washington.
I am surprised that you would since these were forces who played a leading role in the Holocaust of 1.5 million of Jews
This is now an existentialist war for mankind that we are fighting.
I suppose I have to call you Honeybee
You seemed to have adjusted your previous position.
Before you were a hater of Russia and a lover of Ukraine (Nazi collaborators in the Holocaust and all)
Now moved. Nice one NOT!
@Felix
You are sounding just like them. I believe in free speech. You obviously don’t.
Jewish interest should be neither Russia nor Ukraine. Israel is the Jewish nation.
@ Felix: “. It is not Jew against Jew but it is principled people who are fighting against a Fascist program aimed at destroying Russia and Vladimir Putin” You can’t really believe this statement.
For the moment I will leave others to air their views on this most vital matter
But I want to add that the spin of Haaretz must be rejected. It is not Jew against Jew but it is principled people who are fighting against a Fascist program aimed at destroying Russia and Vladimir Putin. It is splitting the Jewish people in that specific manner.
This is a Fascist program that is spawned inside the United States of America who is along with the EU bringing us to the very brink of Nuclear War
In order to have a new vision we have to identify very clearly and precisely what lies in front of our eyes.
That’s not totally the reason they left. They were seeking to have a site which was Fascist and which was totally in support of the Fascist and Unipolar program of the United States of America. The political position of people like that must be clearly identified. And if that’s not done in the most explicit manner possible then the door is left open for the future most deadly attacks against the Jewish people. Bear and Laura are American and are the most slavish supporters of the United States of America as it pushes our world to nuclear war. In fact I strongly believe people like that should not get the chance to leave but should be kicked right out on the basis that their political position is incompatible with the needs of mankind.
My point to you in brief form the readers of Israpundit are split. One or two are explicit but many are anything but open and frank. All of these are filled with a racism towards Russia which is deadly for the Jewish people.
@Felix
I think it is obvious all that i embrace the Russian point of view. It is for this reason that Bear Klien and Laura left.
Who is seeking a mental dictatorship here? Haaretz is!
In fact it was Haaretz it can be said which started and is responsible for this war. Why do I day that?
Anybody who thinks and says that this war started the moment that Russia troops crossed the border are consciously lying.
You can more correctly say that this war started when in 1945 the Intelligence Services of the United States of America started to enable Nazi Fascists like Stepan Bandera to escape justice. That is to enable the Fascist Ukrainian Collaborators with the Nazis to escape justice.
And these Fascist present day groups like Azov brought about the violent counter revolution, the Nazi Racist coup in Maidan of February 2014. War was declared on Russia at that very point as these Fascist forces of Maidan were integrated into the Ukrainian army to proceed immediately to murder 14,000 defenceless Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Donbass.
When I place “the Ukrainian war on Russia speaking Donbass region” with the word Haaretz what do we see?
Surprise Surprise we can see nothing using the Google search engine.
Haaretz were quiet when this Nazi slaughter was happening in the Donbass.
In fact from Haaretz we find only hundreds of articles which spout pure propaganda from the United States of America.
Ted it is not a matter of Haaretz being biased as many of us know it is a mouthpiece of the Intelligence Services of the United States of America and has been for a very long time.
It is rather that this war is splitting the world in two and obviously Jews deeply – since it is at the centre of the Nazi Holocaust, with its Ukrainian Collaborators, and that Israpundit is also split down the middle. It is the biggest issue since the Holocaust and is the Only issue at present. You have to be explicit on where you as editor stand. Explicit! And forgive me YOU WERE NOT.
@Felix
There was so much wrong with its point of view that I simply referred to is as bias. It is obvious that the authors had a anti-Russian attitude..
I trust my readers to recognize it themselves.
It is correct to publish articles like this. But obviously as editor it is necessary to state EXACTLY the position of yourself. Saying it is biased is no longer enough.
It is not an invasion. There’s no intention of colonising Ukraine. Russia couldn’t do that even if it wanted to. That’s simply part of the lie.
They can say it is a response to a war inflicted on the Donbass Russians since the coup in February 2014 in which many were murdered by OUR enemies and resulted in 14,000 being murdered in Donbass. We have the records.
And those who have taken over Ukraine after the coup of February 2014 such as the Azov Fascists are directly connected and express the very ideology of the German Nazis of the Holocaust of the Jews of the Ukraine and wider. For Jews today that should and must be the big issue and they must make their position absolutely clear on this exact issue. They will be judged, as a Trotskyist I warn them, by fellow Jews and all humanity forevermore. Yes indeed Haaretz this IS a turning point.