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Menu There is no diplomatic solutionIsrael should declare three nos;
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
no to nuclear Iran, no to two-state solution, no to bi-national state
@ Ted Belman:
Thanks Ted. Leon’s method of testing the search engines was very clever and very revealing. It was so simple and obvious that I am ashamed that I never thought of doing something like this to conclusively prove what I have known to be true for many years. I shall mention this to friends and family alike. I have been warning them for many years of the manipulative and indoctrinating techniques that google employs in its managed search results. Many have come to agree with me, but, regretfully, a few still use google for their online inquiries including my own mother. I think they will find Leon’s quick test very enlightening.
Leon Kushner is a friend of mine who lives in Toronto and run’s his won blog: Leon’s Upside Down World.
He just posted Those Insidious Search Engines
In it he discusses Google’s treatment of Israel and apartheid. Very well done.
Worth a look.
@ Ted Belman:
Thank you for the undeserved compliment you gave me about “disclosing my background”. That honor goes entirely to Peloni, who actually did disclose his.
If you really do want my background, I’m a goy from a blue collar background. My father, whom I only met four times, was a maintenance electrician. He and my mom were divorced when i was still in the cradle, and he died young. Even so, I seem to have taken to his side. He descends from Elder William Brewster, who penned the Mayflower Compact, and a long line of religious dissenters. He himself was a self-proclaimed agnostic, though he studied the Bible intensely. My mother was a Roman Catholic, second generation immigrant from Eastern Europe. My only claim to Jewish roots comes from her side; and even her non-Jewish cousins suffered greatly under Hitler. Her family is from Slovenia, a country full of people who like to speak their onions.
That should be enough to explain why I am who I am. I grew up in the Polish ghetto of Milwaukee, and had a Polish step-father — blue-collar working class like all the rest of us. When my mom was a girl, she could only speak German, the language of her step-father and ALL her neighbors (obviously, she didn’t grow up in the Polish neighborhood).
The city was a lot like the pre-world Danzig (Gdansk), described in Gunter Grass’s “The Tin Drum”. In fact, the two cities in the world with the largest Kashubian population (the mother in Grass’s book was Kashube) are Milwaukee and Gdansk. Another city that greatly resembles the city I grew up in was the Warsaw of the opening scenes of “The Pianist” by Polansky.
This is a Jewish site, where people, try as they may, are never able to shake off their roots and early upbringing. So be it, for better or for worse. I’m quite fond of my childhood. At the corner drugstore, you could buy the English-language newspapers, as well as The Kurier Polski and the Deutsche Zeitung. It was very common to hear foreign languages spoken at home, on the bus and in the markets. Life in my neighborhood had a heartbeat to it: Church bells ringing from many towers, every 15 minutes; bushas picking up trash off the sidewalk on their way to the store; the rag man shouting “Rags!” from his horse-drawn wagon, while the scisors-sharpener pushed his cart down the street; the ice man delivering to one of the three taverns abutting my house.
The rest of my life has been uninteresting, by comparison. Shalom shalom 🙂
@ Michael S:
Many, many wonderful Orwell essays, including “Politics and the English Language” and “Benefit of Clergy”.
I recommend getting a hold of these essays. They were published by Penguin when I first bought them (many years ago).
@ Michael S:
I wasn’t aware of Orwell’s connection to Burma.
Thanks for this disclosure on your background. Its nice to know whom one is talking to or listening to.
@ peloni1986:
Thank you. Nice to know you.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted, have you read “Burmese Days”, by George Orwell? In high school, I was required to read his essay, “Shooting an Elephant”, which began,
“In Moulmein, in lower Burma, I was hated by large numbers of people – the only time in my life that I have been important enough for this to happen to me. I was sub-divisional police officer of the town, and in an aimless, petty kind of way anti-European feeling was very bitter. No one had the guts to raise a riot, but if a European woman went through the bazaars alone somebody would probably spit betel juice over her dress. As a police officer I was an obvious target and was baited whenever it seemed safe to do so.”
Orwell could probably encountered a similar attitude in any place where he were put into authority; but in Burma, it all took on a nationalistic and racist flavor. Reflecting upon the “elephant” incident, he decided that the institution of colonialism itself was the cause for the problem; but considering the continuing simmering unrest in Burma in the 73 years since its independence, I would say the problems had nothing to do with Orwell and his fellow Brits, and everything to do with the Burmese themselves and human nature.
The world attacks Israel, labeling them with terms like “Apartheid” in order to turn them into George Orwells and spit betel juice on them. As in Orwells case, though, the underlying problem is not Zionism (described as a variant of colonialism), nor anything the Jews of Israel have done; the problem is the backers of the “Palestinian Cause” who view themselves as inherently worthy Burmese who have been thwarted by the Jews, the Christians, the Europeans, anyone who seems to have usurped their own rightful place on a pedestal.
This isn’t a situation the Jews of Israel can easily get out of. They can’t just, like Orwell, resign their commissions and return to England. They are in their Jewish bodies, and have to stand and fight in those bodies. When they do, they exhibit a character that the world admires, even the Arabs.
Am Ysrael chai! Hazak, hazak, ve-nithazek
@ peloni1986:
Interesting background, Peloni. It takes all kinds 🙂
@ Ted Belman:
Thank you, Ted. You are too kind.
In truth, there is not much to share. I have a strong background in history focusing largely on Jewish/Israeli, Macedonian, English and modern era (US Civil War, WWI thru the present). I believe that history is the route towards most solutions and the root of most problems. I love books and have more than I have room. My fields of educational studies include medicine, mathematics and accounting – I love medicine, I’ve always understood mathematics and accounting, well, I think everyone who deals with it hates its it and those of us who know much of it probably hate it more. I left the medical field some time ago after being disillusioned by the unfathomable fun of dealing with administrative politics which it requires. I have a marketing business that I have been a part of for nearly 30yrs now that kept me busy before the China plague rolled in and shut everyone down. I do miss the routine that the business required, though I think we were losing as much as we were making before the pandemic. I am blessed with a lovely mother, a doting wife, 3 dogs, 2 fish and a cat that I can’t keep indoors. I am a secular Jew who keeps the Sabbath, I am fiercely proud of my heritage and sickened by much of what I perceive in the world today. I have never been a part of social media – too old school to trust being part of the modern hive – though I read many other peoples postings regularly(my wife tells me it like cheating at cards, lol). I found your site many years ago while reading your postings about the war in former Yugoslavia and found that your writings spoke clearly my own views. I have watched your site grow over the years, really enjoying the dialogue of the bloggers as much as your great choice in articles. I recently signed up after it became mandatory to access the comments and only very recently decided to acknowledge my presence by adding my own voice to the chatter. You have created a wonderful venue which not only provides the news of the day for your followers but also empowers them to voice their input upon these stories and each-others chit-chat. Your site, I believe, has gained even more significance following the internet-wide censorship campaign which has devastated our side of the conversation and their assaults continue. For all of this I truly thank you, Ted. But of all that you have here, the one thing that you should be most congratulated for is your work on the Jordan Option with Mudar.
Sorry for rambling, but, as I said, not much to share, but this is me.
@ Michael S:
Yes but Israel is constantly accused of being an apartheid state. As a result a new meaning is being imposed on what being apartheid means.
@ Ted Belman:
“Glick proceeded on the grounds that to deny them this path would make Israel an Apartheid state. Not so. Under the Jordan Option, all Palestinians would become Jordanian citizens.”
I’m glad “Apartheid” is an Afrikaans word, with a definite meaning and context. The Afrikaners had a problem, in that the Bantus had settled more of their number into the country than the Dutch and British, and threatened to take over the country (which they eventually did). Israel’s situation is very similar, except that they were given title to the land by God. In South Africa under the Nationalists, “Bantustans” were established as Black homelands; and Blacks both in and out of those homelands were given citizenship in them — very similar to what you are proposing concerning the Palestinian Arabs.
The problem between the Jews and Arabs in Israel is not about Apartheid, democracy or any other of these temporal issues. It is a conflict between those who believe God is sovereign in the Land of Israel, and those who do not. I suspect Caroline might agree.
@ peloni1986:
Your two part comment is on the money. It also shows you to be very knowledgeable and a valuable addition to the israpundit family.
Perhaps you could tell us a little about yourself.
@ peloni1986:
(2 of 2)
More than this is the cost of the project and the consequences of this transfer of wealth. The financial burden of this plan on Israelis would be devastating. Additionally, the overwhelming wealth that these new immigrants will be bringing into the very poor adopting nations will gain them a great deal of political influence in these adoptive countries by people who may still hold a strong sense of animus towards Israel. But I believe the greatest problem with this proposed plan is the fact that it would ultimately fail. The Pals would be asked to move to a number of different countries, while being handsomely rewarded and required to renounce their claims to a state of their own. I believe that the lack of any sort of a political settlement would be the undoing of this plan. I believe it would create a great animosity amongst a great number of people who just recently were rewarded with a great amount of money and have a history of financing and conducting terrorist activities. So I can think of many scenarios where this goes sideways. I do think it will create many things, I just don’t think it will create a lasting peace.
The Jordan option, does, however provide for a political solution, and it is a solution that was arrive at 100yrs and 1 month ago with the flip of a pen during the Cairo Conference of 1921. It was at this conference that Churchill negotiating with T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) created the country of Trans-Jordan, later renamed Jordan, for the benefit and the legacy of the Arabs present in the territory. At this same conference, it was agreed that Jordan, an agreed Arab state, would not be involved in the creation of the Jewish Homeland in the remaining territory which makes up Israel today(of course this part would require a slight pause of about another 27yrs to come into effect). The Jordan Option also provides the proper prerequisite for the formation of a peace accord – namely a partner. With the proper political partner in Jordan who could take responsibility for their citizens and the boundary between the two states a peace could be obtained. But it would take a sincerely willing ruler in Jordan. It would also require a honest broker to be present in the US White House, i.e. not the illegitimately stolen 3rd term for Obama and his antisemitic crew. Consequently, whereas I firmly support the Jordan Option and hope for Mudar’s success, it seems this is unlikely to take place anytime soon unless something very significant changes. But this is 2021, so I guess anything is possible.
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(1 of 2)
I am still a firm supporter of the Jordan Option. Its strengths lie in both its simplicity and its historical basis. The simplicity of the plan will make its implementation more likely to be approached before the state reaches it Bicentennial celebration and its historical basis provides for a genuine context for peace that can be seen as reasonable by a peace partner who is looking for a peace with Israel and not another piece of Israel. I do not know, however, if we will see it come to fruition, now or ever, as it does require many stars to align simultaneously. But a friendly and supportive administration in the US is a must and this we do not have at present. But, if peace is to be obtained and be successful, I believe that the peace will be the result of either the Jordan Option or something very similar to it.
I agree that the extension of citizenship proposal made many years ago was a step in the wrong direction. The proposal itself suggested a recognition that participation in Israel’s political future should be offered in exchange for a cessation to the terrorist acts of murder and mayhem. Such an exchange would be certain to result in our destruction from within as well as from without. As testimony to this belief, we can see today that some domestic Arab elements mean to undermine the nation from within while refusing to so much as recognize the legitimacy of the very nation in whose gov’t they supposedly serve – an absolutely unbearable situation. Israel is a Jewish State. It is both unreasonable and unacceptable to extend further political support to individuals who don’t even sanction our state’s existence. Non-state residents, as in any country, should be allowed every right of civil law and decency but to extend them the privilege of choosing a pathway towards our destruction is intolerable. In other democratic republics across the globe, non-citizens do not vote except on very specific guidelines such as reciprocal treaty agreements and such. It would be a basic betrayal of the citizenry to allocate the the determination of a state’s political future to anyone other than its own citizens.
Sherman’s plan was an interesting concept (very out of the box thinking), but its very premise of paying the Arabs off, as it were, easily lends itself to a historic trope used for centuries against Jews.
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Jordan option is the way.
Extend sovereignty over all of Judea and Samaria.
Left over Arabs may have residency, but not voting rights.
Apartheid, Shmapartheid.
@ Ted Belman:
Adding to Sherman’s idea, give Arabs a tax credit for claiming emigration intention. The more years they take it, the more they are unlikely to be able to pay it back. Cheaper to emmigrate. Better to emigrate than pay fines. Money accumulated will give them a start elsewhere. Separates in time easy attractive commitment from difficult but enforceable obligation with little bad PR. .
Start by applying Sovereignty to all Jewish Towns in Judea/Samaria, Jordan Valley and Dead Sea Area.
That is what I want to happen to start. Truth be told since it did not happen while Trump was POTUS, Israeli politicians will not tackle this now while Biden is POTUS. Never mind Israel politically is a mess.
She was right to start the conversation on extending sovereignty but wrong to suggest that Palestinians in J&S be given a path to citizenship.
Marin Sherman countered with the view that Palestinians should be financially induced to emigrate rather than giving them a path to citizenship.
I countered with the Jordan Option in which Jordan becomes the Palestinian state and Palestinians be induced to emigrate to Jordan.
Glick proceeded on the grounds that to deny them this path would make Israel an Apartheid state. Not so. Under the Jordan Option, all Palestinians would become Jordanian citizens.
There is no obligation on Israel to offer a path to citizenship to citizens of other countries who may be living in J&S.
Caroline is so often so right, but never more so than here.